Johannus

VideInfra78 - sorry I should have made myself clearer, when I was saying I thought by showing Anakin choose to leave his family and go on the adventure, I didnt necessarily mean to have the conversation on Tatooine.  The way I imagine it they would either be on a ship where Owen continues to Tatooine but Anakin leaves, or perhaps by hologram, or even just having Anakin tell NotPadme or Obi Wan about the conversation he had with Owen.  

I think the conversation is the important point rather than the location.  But I agree with the idea that bringing things back to Tatooine too often does seem to shrink the galaxy too much so I can see why you would want to avoid that. 

With regards to Tatooine, I have been thinking along the lines of Owen and Beru being refugees heading there too.  However, I think by actually showing this in a way which makes it look like Anakin is choosing to be a soldier in the war instead of staying with his family it would mirror the choice that Luke has in E4.  Also we can see how Anakin isnt really family orientated, and then becomes more so as he falls in love with NotPadme and befriends Obi Wan.  This could add to the feel of Vader being more solitary after Anakin's fall as he becomes in some ways more like his pre-jedi self. 

I have contacted two people with amazing Wookiee costumes, so far one declined to help and the other has not yet replied, however, I will persue this as and when i find more people with top quality costumes.  Hopefully someone will be able to help. 

Thanks for the tips on those too.  I have been working my way through various fan films and game clips in the hope of finding some useable shots, again with very limited success so far (but there is so much to go through that it will just take time).  Likewise with Clone Wars (though I have only seen season 1, so will be sure to check out season 2).

Thanks again Angel.

Well so far I've just been using VirtualDub to do some quick cuts to play around with the way the scenes work.  I have After Effects which I will be using for most of the video, along with Paintshop Pro to play around with any images I need.  A big issue for me will be the audio side of things because I have never done any audio editing at all whereas I have a little video, and a lot of image experience. 

I'm going to have a go at turning that little clip into Coruscant so fingers crossed and I'll let you know how I get on.

Angel:  I get that you dislike the idea of static.  If it was a factor of laziness then I would too, but with the case of the wookiees I think it would be the best of a bad situation. With regards to the water on Coruscant then no that wouldnt be static (though to be honest in that brief clip a still water surface wouldn't really show much movement). 

As for the death star still looking like the death star, there is probably a lot more that could be done here, it was only a very quick mock up to show that a colour change could make a lot of difference, I will have a look at some of the Coruscant clips from the PT and see if I can improve this to look different enough to be passable. 

Thanks again for the feedback guys. 

Coruscant is one big city in the prequels, but as this is an edit to make RotJ more in line with Episodes 4 and 5, then I have no need to listen to the prequels :)  Also cities often have water features. 

As for creating new shots such as a distant shot of the city before moving across that shot, I could do, to be honest I hadn't thought about it because if I decide to then it wont really be that hard, not compared to things like solving the wookiee problems and the ending, and making the script work with some of the altered scenes. 

Even if I manage to do all of those things I think it would still take ages to actually smooth it out with all the soundtrack and hope that the story was still explained enough to be ejoyable.  Oh well, we'll see.

I played around with the colours a little (only very quick experiment) to give an idea of how it could look if it is used as the planet.

I'm thinking that dark area to the right could become some sort of water feature too.  Just a quick mock up.  What do you think?

Thanks for that.  That actually looks a lot like the tower in the clip I mentioned.  Heres a picture.

I think I'll have to pla around with it a little, particularly the colours, to make it look a little more planet and a little less space station.  But I think it is a good starting point. 

Well with the ewoks problem I'm going to start by cutting the ewoks out as much as possible.  Then I'm going to work in as many additional troops clips as I can.  Then I'm going to try to incorporate as many of the wookiee shots as I can, but the problem here is that there aren't really any to work with.  In RotS there are really only a few seconds worth of usable shots, and even these will require a fair bit of work.  There is at least one clip from the Force Unleashed game where the wookiees are celebrating so I'm going to try to use that after the rebel victory.  Other than that I don't know of any other sources of clips with wookiees so I will see what I can do with regards to recolouring and reusing the clips to try to expand it a little, however even then it isn't going to look great without expanding the original material.  I also havent found any clips from other non star wars films that would be suitable, but if anyone has any suggestions I'm happy to hear them.

So to get round this I was thinking there are many shots where we see stormtroopers or rebel troops firing, and then it cuts away, and really there is very little movement, so I'm hoping to replicate this style of shot for the wookiees.  Also when Han and co first enter the bunker, we see the forest behind them, here I will also add in some wookiees and other troops, again to create the illussion (because that is all any of this really is) of a large strike team. 

As for Coruscant, there is a shot of some tie fighters approaching the surface of the death star which I noted as a possible change to have them approach Coruscant, and I'm hoping to create a new shot showing the Emporer's palace as being quite high, so that the majority of the views from the windows behind the Emporer will just be sky, though this could change.  I hadn't really considered trying to make it mesh perfectly with the Coruscant from the Prequels because I don't think bringing RotJ in line with the PT would help to improve it.  To be honest the name was the only thing I had really decided to keep, and even that is open to change. 

The first motion clips I'm working on will be mostly rough cuts to see how well playing around with the storyline can work so I'm not sure if I'll upload those, however, the images I've been working on are more to give a feel of the changes to how things will look, so they have a bit more to show I think.  Either way I will keep you all updated with the successes and the problems as they happen. 

Thanks again everyone.

To be honest I'm not too keen on the clone bodies idea (well technically that's not entirely true, I just don't really like the idea of Palpatine being a clone because it seems like its too convenient to always just bring back the big bad guy then), but if I can't avoid it then I may just go with it as a way to complete the edit.  However, so far I was thinking that it could be editted to look like Vader picks Palpatine up, but then if instead of throwing him, I cut a bit to where vader is barely supporting himself on the rail thing, and try to add the lightning effect and a clip of Palpatine standing again, then it might look more like he is finishing Vader off.  I think it would be a little jumpy but I would rather have a jumpy edit that tells a better story to be honest.  The problem with this idea is that Luke would then still be at the mercy of the Emporer, unless he runs off, which means no saving Vader.  So yeah still a bit stuck on that idea.

With regards to the wookiees there is definitely not enough footage from RotS to edit out the ewoks properly.  That is why I am going to look for as many places to add shots of static wookiees as possible, and also try to make it look like they are firing from behind trees and suchlike, to minimise the need to show them moving around as the footage just doesn't exist.  Also I'm looking at other films for clips of footsoldiers in a forest setting that could be used to expand the rebel forces so they don't seem quite so outnumbered. 

I'll try to update with some mock ups soon.  Oh and thanks for the heads up on Judge Dredd, I'll check it out. 

Yeah I have had a look there thanks.  Another of the things I had thought about which I noticed on that list too was adding Mara Jade to Jabba's Palace, which I have already started making mock ups for. 

One thing I am stuck on though is I wanted to make it so the Emporer is still alive at the end so he would remain the villian until Episode 9 (hypothetically), however, I cannot decide how to have it so Vader dies, turns good, and Luke escapes without the Emporer dying.  Any ideas?

Hi everyone, this will be my first fan edit if I go ahead with it.  I have sat and watched RotJ and made a big list of everything I would like to do with it.  Some parts are pretty basic and others are going to be a lot more difficult.  For example, I want to set the fight between Vader and Luke on Coruscant instead of on the death star, though this will only mean changing the establishing shots and the view from the windows from space to sky, so I don’t think this will be too bad.  More ambitious parts will be making it as it it was opening up the sequel trilogy (episodes 7-9), and removing the ewoks.

People might think I’m mad to leave it open ended given that I can hardly try to create an episode 7, but hey, no point in aiming small is there.  Likewise to removing the ewoks.  They should have been wookiees, so I’m happy to try to replace them with wookiees, or alternatively to try to add more rebel soldiers so it just looks like the rebels won without the help of anyone else (ideally it would have more wookiees though).

So I just thought I would create this to keep everyone updated with my progress, and also to see what you guys think of my ideas so far.  If anyone has any advice or suggestions I would love to hear them.

The idea of them being unmarried doesn't bother me at all, but I guess I did always see them as being in some sort of relationship, so the idea that it was more like a one night stand is something different.

The big problem for me is I'd have made Luke and Leia brother and sister, but in my prequel rewrites I'd rather not have them as twins because its already difficult enough trying to make them siblings without spoiling the reveal in RotJ, so having twins just makes it even more obvious and therefore difficult to preserve the secret.

Thanks xhonzi, I hadn't seen this one before so will enjoy looking through that.

I try to take inspiration from lots of sources, particularly ones that aren't particularly Star Wars related (as I think it helps generate wider ideas).  For example I enjoy looking on sites like Deviant Art as there are hundreds of brilliant drawings and paintings and suchlike.  Also more relevant to this topic I have considered other films and stories with big twists.  I would say a couple of brilliant examples are the Prestige and The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, where once you have seen the film for the first time and you become aware of the twist, when you watch it again you notice all the little clues and things that were included to make it consistent with the twist, but during the first viewing you thought nothing of it.

That is exactly how I think the Anakin Vader reveal should work. 

I've been considering my own Prequel rewrite ideas for a while now (inspired by various ideas from this site as well as others), and one of the big areas of debate seems to be that if the reveal in ESB is to be kept secret, how can Anakin's fall also be shown in a prequel film. 

My way of tackling this was going to be have Obi Wan and Anakin meet in Episode 1 (or shortly before it) where they become good friends.  Obi Wan begins teaching Anakin towards the end of this film.  Then by the start of Episode 2 Anakin is already showing much promise as a Jedi, however, he does seem to be less true and noble than Obi Wan, and it seems that Obi Wan has to keep him in line so as not to stray to the Dark Side.  Then as the movie goes on Anakin is away from Obi Wan, and when the two are next reunited Anakin does seem to have developed some bad ideas and have slipped a little, but Obi Wan manages to convince Anakin to do the right thing and go help fight the new bad guy (Darth Vader).  The bad guy wears a Vader style outfit (Vader-lite if you will), but no helmet.  This style of costume however, is worn by many of the Jedi as their battle armour, and Anakin's and even Obi Wan's clothing is not massively different. 

Then the audience would only see clips of the fight (because Obi Wan would be off fighting someone elsewhere and it would be cutting between the two scenes).  We would see the two prepare for battle, perhaps casting their cloaks to the floor, Anakin wound Vader's face, Vader seeming to get the upper hand, both dropping their lightsabers during the struggle, and then Obi Wan appraoching so only from a distance we see the characters fighting near an edge, neither still holding a Lightsaber, and one falling to their death (in a way in which the body cannot be found, lava perhaps).  Obi Wan shouts 'No!', then before he can arrive we see the surviving character pick up a cloak from a dead soldier nearby, wipe his face and we see the blood on his arm, so he wraps the cloak around his face, then a helmet from a nearby guard he killed earlier is lying there.  He picks it up and puts it on, then he picks up the two lightsabers, throws Anakin's asside and leaves.  Obi Wan then arrives to find Anakin's lightsaber, and is clearly upset.  He gives the news to the others that Anakin has been killed by Darth Vader. 

As long as there was a scene or two before this where we see this Vader character killing other jedi, and those scenes were only shown in brief clips, it could be done because the audience doesn't know the name of this character and that would seem like it is his identity being kept secret, Anakin could be shown elsewhere during these murders so that he isn't a suspect. 

Then to solve the Obi Wan/Anakin fight, it would be that Obi Wan fights the new Vader (who is actually Anakin), where he could seem to be angry with him, and we assume it is because he killed Anakin, whereas really it is because it is Anakin, just like we assumed when he saw someone fall off the cliff and die Obi Wan shouted NO because it was Anakin, when really he just didn't want Anakin to kill someone (this interpretation would vary depending on how early you wanted Obi Wan to know Vader was Anakin).  Then when they fight Obi Wan 'defeats' Vader and leaves.  Then Vader is repaired and the rest is still in tact.  After this point I don't think there would be many people left for Obi Wan to have to inform about the true identity of Vader, and the lie he tells Luke could be the one he had originally told people after he initially thought Anakin was dead.

I think we are possibly overthinking this because the whole idea is to make it so first time viewers are shocked by the fact Vader is Luke's father.  I think this way it would be quite shocking, the only reason we don't think it is shocking enough is because we already know the outcome. 

See I don't mind the idea of animations if done properly.  However, I don't think they would ever bother bringing the original actors back for the roles because they can hire people who sound a bit like them for a lot less, which means recasting anyway.

The reason I suggested live action is because I think there are some good stories that fit within the original trilogy timeframe that they could potentially turn into a series of EU films.  For example Shadows of the Empire would make an Episode 5.5, Splinter of the Mind's Eye could be a good Episode 4.5, and I would even go as far as to say using the rough outline from The Force Unleashed could make a good Episode 3.5 (though I wouldn't be too bothered with it fitting between a prequel film because I would like to see these completely redone).  To be honest though I haven't read much else when it comes to the EU stuff but from what I have read these did strike me as having a good Original Trilogy feel to them. 

The only one I can really think of a good casting for though is Charlize Theron for Guri, though I would prefer to go with someone a little younger now.  Likewise if they had been filming this around 1998 I would have said Lena Headey could make a good Leia, but again I think they would need someone a little younger now. 

I hope this is a good place to put this.  I was just wondering if they were to announce plans to turn this game into a movie tomorrow who would you want to see in the roles (bear in mind their ages)?

The main new characters would be Dash, Xizor, Guri, and the old ones that would need recasting are Luke, Leia, and Lando (shocking to even suggest recasting I know, but still I'm sure if they took it seriously it would be good without ruining the classics). 

WheresBlackhawk said:

I've always thought that the most difficult thing about a NPT is the birth of the children.  Creating a situation where one is born and hidden away, while the other is temporarily ignored, is really a difficult concept for me still.  Any help would be appreciated there.

I agree with you here, which is why in the outline I hinted at above I would have Vader say something to NotPadme about Luke, this way we know that he is aware of the son, but when it turns out to be twins the daughter doesnt have to be hidden away, because we know that Vader didnt know about her, so she can just be passed off as Bail's adopted daughter without anyone needing to know who her real mother was. 

I just thought I would makes a reply with some of the things I have been thinking for a while now. 

The Clone Wars - most people seem to like the idea of this being the second clone war (because then it shows there is more than one)  but I think it should be the 4th or 5th clone war.  The reason is that we have had 2 world wars in our recent history, so I think mirroring those but in the context of a galaxy would actually make them seem smaller and less of a big deal for that galaxy.  Also if I remember correctly someone made the point that the greater the technology the shorter the war (generally speaking).  This could explain why there have been a number of shorter wars, rather than just two very long ones.  And finally, by increasing the number of wars I think it allows us to suggest they are becoming a real problem, because although the republic always seem to win the wars, they are not going away.  But, I would just like to point out I have no problem with the specifics people have been writing about the war, just think we should increase the number. 

The Vader Secrecy - It islooking like try as we might, this is gonna be the make or break point.  We have to know (or think) that Anakin has been killed by a 'Darth Vader' but obviously we can't show it because of the small details about it not being your run of the mill death.  We then have to have Obi Wan find out the truth, and evenually fight Vader himself, defeat him, and leave Vader with a heavy breathing mask. 

To me, the most convincing way that has been suggested so far is to have Obi Wan train Anakin, then to have him train someone else.  Anakin slowly and secretly begins to turn to the dark side because he thinks it is necessary to 'interfer' more than the jedi allow.  Whereas, the other apprentice seems to take a more obvious slide down to the dark side.  Then there would come a point where Anakin and this apprentice fight, they would both fall somewhere.  Then by the time Obi Wan gets there all we see is one person putting on a helmet (which we recognise as Vader) but we don't know which apprentice it is.  Obi Wan would ask about his apprentice and Vader would reply that 'he is no more'.  This way we maintain the secret (to some degree), Obi Wan learns the truth, they fight, etc. 

The only real problems I see with this is that if after all this Obi Wan goes to NotPadme and tells his lie, then this could make it seem like Obi Wan doesn't actually know the truth himself.  And if Obi Wan has had two apprentices, and both have turned evil, then surely he must have been out of his mind to even think of training Luke himself. 

Oh and whilst I am here I might as well make another plug for NotPadme (who I have been naming Lehra) to have jedi training.  Using the outline I just mentioned, I would have the Obi Wan vs Vader fight at the end of episode II.  Then episode III can be about how Obi Wan, Lehra and maybe a few others would try to stop the other jedi who have left the path.  Basically, episode III would show Obi Wan trying to single handedly stop the collapse of the republic and the rise of Palpatine, but obviously it is too much for him.  When he thinks he is fighting the leader of the fallen jedi he defeats him only to sense that he was wrong.  He rushes off but it too late to stop Vader (who we all assumed to be dead) from killing Lehra.  In this fight Lehra would be well out of her depth but she would be incredibly angry with Vader (we would think it is because he killed Anakin, but after the reveal in episode V we can go back and think, actually it is because she realised who he really was).  And when Obi Wan arrives Vader would be within sight but unreachable (this way Obi Wan realises he is still alive but they don't fight), and Obi Wan would be more upset about Lehra.  She could die in his arms saying something about Vader and Luke, thus forcing Obi Wan to realise he has to stop fighting and run off and protect Luke.  Also after Obi Wan witnesses what Vader is capable of, he would have no doubt there is no good left in him, and therefore, when Luke manages to save him it is an even bigger surprises.  

xhonzi - I know the idea of Vader being a sort of title that is passed down has been suggested earlier too, but I'm sorry I just don't like it.  I hope this doesn't sound like I'm always disagreeing, because from the moment I read it (earlier in the thread) I just thought it was fine in The Princess Bride, but wouldn't work in Star Wars (for the reasons TheBoost mentioned). Having said that your post did lead me to consider something. 

We know that at some point there has to be a showdown between Obi Wan and Anakin, which Obi Wan wins.  However, do people see that as Anakin who we all know is Anakin (pre Vader armour) or Anakin who is hidden beneath the helmet? 

I've always imagined it as Obi Wan fighting Anakin in the Vader armour.  That way when it comes to their fight in A New Hope we should all be thinking that last time Obi Wan won, so it shouldn't be a problem, but then when he lets Vader win it has more impact. 

TheBoost - I like the idea of a group of jedi following Anakin (though I don't think it should be many because I don't think there should be too many jedi crowded together - perhaps 4), but I dont think I would necessarily make them have red lightsabers, I would say perhaps only Anakin should, but I am admittedly undecided about this.  But rather than having them killed by an explosion, I think Anakin should be ordered to kill them all, this way the idea that Darth Vader hunted the jedi to extinction has even more validity. 

TMBTM said:

What about making notPadme the secret apprentice of Palpatine? Or even his daughter would say Lucas...

Make Anaking falling in love in episode 1. Then it is revealed to the audience that she's Palpatine apprentice at the end of episode 2 and that her love interest in Anakin was purely part of a plan to convert Anaking to the dark side (maybe she would fall in love at some point, but it's never really explain), then Palpatine kills her by episode 3, blaming the Jedi for it.

I don't know just an idea.

Well it is definatly a good example of thinking outside of the box, but personally I don't like the idea.  I think with Luke and Leia having a father who starts as good, turns very bad, but eventually ends up being good, it would be too much for them to have a mother who was bad, pretended to be good, only to end up being bad. 

I've always been thikning that NotPadme would be an essentially good character through and through (though obviously her falling for Anakin would show she is still only human and nobody is perfect).  I can't really justify why I think she should be so good though. 

Well I will try to explain how I have been imagining this, but please bear in mind that I am building on the ideas already suggested here so please don't think I am trying to claim they are all original.

Anakin - I like the idea of him being a space pilot of some description, and I would even have it so that he is carrying some sort of illegal cargo when he is first seen on screen.  This way he can already have many bad habits and although he isn't evil it means it is easier to see why he fell to the dark side.  He would also be a good contrast to Obi Wan because Obi Wan is the proper Jedi (so to speak).  Where Obi Wan advises caution, Anakin rushes in (much in the same way he is already in the prequels). 

Bail - He should be a Prince or King or whatever because then if we use the love triangle idea then that is where the title of Princess would pass from to Leia.  I think Bail and NotPadme should have some sort of intimate history, but they are unmarried because NotPadme is not suitable and Bail is already arranged to be married to someone else.  Then when NotPadme and Anakin hook up and Anakin turns to the dark side, Bail would immediatly offer to help NotPadme by looking after the children (showing that really he did love NotPadme).

NotPadme - Originally I was thinking she could be someone who was trained as a jedi, but left the order at a young age (for whatever reason).  That way she would have some training but not be as good as someone like Obi Wan.  Then somewhere along the line she ended up working as part of Bail's head of security or something like that, and thats how she met Bail.  But someone made the point the jedi shouldn't be so organised as to be an order that you leave and join, and I actually agree with that too, so instead maybe she began training, but completed even less than Luke did.  But there are 3 main reasons I think she should be a jedi:

1) It would explain why the force was so strong in Luke (because if Obi Wan trained Anakin and failed so badly then there would have to be a damn good reason for him to even consider training someone else). 

2) I think if Anakin is a very bold and even somewhat reckless character, then the attraction to NotPadme could be more believable by her being a similar character.  (Imagine when they first meet and he jokes about protecting her and really it is her protecting him). 

3) She can be killed by Anakin in a lightsaber fight, and we will literally see that there is no good left in him, and it will give Obi Wan massive concern over the children's safety, to the point where he splits them up to hide them.  And it would be a big enough shock to the system that Obi Wan would be so highly emotional when fighting Anakin that it seems like revenge for killing his friend, and this could be used in a 'will Obi Wan/won't Obi Wan turn to the dark side too?' kind of way. 

Ihope I have explained that well enough, and I would love to hear what people think.

Well I was thinking if she was a Jedi, and Anakin believed the jedi were against him for some reason, then his thinking she is against him could help push him to the dark side.  This could be strengthened by him later killing her (on Sidious' suggestion) meaning the emperor would have driven all the good from him, and now the only good that remains (and threat to the emperor) is Luke (and Leia but she remains secret).

Hi everyone, I am brand new to this place but have enjoyed reading this.  I was just thinking about one idea which I don't think has been suggested.  How would you feel about making NotPadme a jedi?