Johannus

I do love the idea of the cyclical nature of the force, because it suggests there was a deeper meaning that both the Jedi and the Sith have always missed due to their blind hatred of one another. 

However, if you want to use the original ideas that were revealed of the last trilogy I think you will struggle because RotJ ended the story that Episodes 4 and 5 built up.  Therefore, you can develop a whole new story with some of the characters or new characters or whatever.  Or I think if you want to extended it in the way that was first suggested I think you would need to rewrite RotJ first because things like Leia being Luke's sister and the Emperor being killed make it hard to carry on in this way.  Purely because you would be restricted by what has gone on in the films, and restricted by the rumours which would guide your new stories, and then have to make your stories fit within those lines. 

If you want to just expand after RotJ with new stories then based on what you have said I would read the Heir to the Empire books (if you haven't already) and note down every little thing you like about those stories.  Then figure out which ones don't contradict what the PT showed us, and then build your story around that.  Otherwise you are trying to redo exactly what Zahn did but possibly using some of his characters and ideas so you have to ask yourself can you do it better than he did?  By all means try, but those books would provide some food for thought if this is the direction you would like your stories to take.

thejediknighthusezni said:

    Is 3PO masked out of the Boush business? Is he changed to another color and voice? Do the droids enter after Boush? Change some 3PO and holo-Luke dialog?

I think if you cut the part where the droids enter together and give the message then R2 is seperate anyway so C3PO can remain as he is and R2 can be shown to be with Luke.  Maybe the crawl could explain C3PO went there with Leia or something. 

I love the mock up of building a lightsaber.  I think it would be a brilliant addition to the start of RotJ.  The idea of the cave is also great, but thus far I don't think anyone has made an edit where they include newly filmed scenes of any sort so as much as I like the idea, I think editing that can be done by a one man team at a computer just seems more realistic (for the moment). 

That said I think the idea suggested above of having Vader making contact with the Death Star from his ship, then having him attempt to contact Luke would work because it could save the Death Star reveal.  But instead of having Vader's contact be followed by the deleted scene of Luke finishing his lightsaber I think it should be Luke in Yoda's hut.  A shot from ESB of a closeup of Luke's face could be used and slowed with Vader's voice heard over the top.  Then Yoda's voice could be heard talking about a jedi's weapon being a lightsaber (the biggest problem I can think of with this is I don't think Yoda says lightsaber in the films but perhaps a sound clip can be found from elsewhere).  Then it could cut to a wide shot from ESB where Yoda is moving around in his hut and Luke is tasting some food.  The reason for this is Yoda is facing the camera and looks like he is picking something up.  He could tell Luke it is his old Lightsaber.  The following shot in ESB is yoda turning slowly back towards Luke so I would suggest a line is constructed of Yoda then talking about the crystal being the heart of the lightsaber, and his crystal can then be shown floating towards Luke, with Yoda watching it.  A shot from another film could then be used with just a closeup of a hand, with the crystal being added as if it is landing in Luke's hand.  Yoda could then talk about building a lightsaber being all he has left to teach Luke. 

I would then suggest cutting to the first shot of the Jabba plot, starting with Boussh (because R2 is meant to be on Dagobah with Luke). 

Then at a suitable point cut back to Luke building his lightsaber, as shown in the mock up video.  I think by darkening Luke's trousers (they would only be in half the shots) it can be made to look more like his RotJ clothing, and by lightening the ESB shots it gives the impression it is misty and early in the day (so as to mirror the darker shots when Yoda dies later on).  Then it would play out roughly as in the video, but have Luke moving the pieces around to place the crystal inside what seems to be a mostly constructed lightsaber.  Then he would hold it but not ignite it.  a shot of Yoda could be edited to make him smile, and there are shots of Luke from ESB where his hand is just out of shot so the completed hilt could be added just creeping into view, and then the same with a standing shot.  I made some quick stills to show what I mean.

Then it could cut back to either the Death Star reveal, Jabba, both, whatever.  Then Luke igniting his lightsaber from the deleted scenes could be used, followed by his entering Yoda's hut tofind Yoda dying. 

After that scene I would try an idea which I think originated in Spence's edit where there was a cut from Leia being in trouble in Jabba's palace to Luke turning whilst standing by his X-Wing on Dagobah, then cutting back to Leia - as if to suggest they are communicating through the force in the same way as the end of ESB.  However, instead of the quick cuts I think Yoda's voice should be heard in the same way as Ben's voice was in ANH shortly after he died, with Yoda telling Luke to hurry as his friends need his help. 

Sorry if that was a bit long winded but I think even though the symmetry isn't quite as nice as some of the suggestions such as having Vader appear in the cave, and Luke refuse to engage him, I just think these ideas are more possible because it is mostly just cutting and masking rather than filming new footage. 

This sounds very interesting and clearly you have given it a lot of thought already.  There are a few things I am wondering though. 

Are you planning to follow what is shown in Episodes 1-6 as being set in stone of are you happy to do a Lucas and ignore a few bits here and there if it makes it easier to fit your stories?

By your circular theory of Episodes 1-3 being the dark side of the yin/yang, and then Episodes 4-6 being the light side of the circle, then your Episodes 7-9 would focus on that dark spot and moving back into the dark side.  If I have understood this correctly doesn't that suggest either your Episode 9 will end on a bad note (like Episode 3) with a bad side victory, or you would have to fit a full cycle (like from Episodes 1-6) into your 3 part story?

This makes me wonder because either you could choose to ignore the ending of RotJ and imagine the Emperor escaped alive and then he can be your black spot bad guy, presumably ending the trilogy with his defeat.  Or if you treat the films as absolute then you would need a new enemy, a little like what happened in the Heir to the Empire books. 

CWBorne said:

I think for my draft (at least at the moment) the Anakin's arc benefits seeing exactly what he gave up to go with Kenobi, and even how a place like Tatooine was had potential before the war destroyed much of hope and possible prosperity. I want to be able to return to there in the third prequel and have it illustrated exactly how damaging this conflict has been, even to planets not directly involved in the war. 

 

Imagine if we could completely reboot Star Wars and create the perfect 9 films as they should have been (so leave episodes 4 and 5 pretty much identical, and the parts from RotJ that would have allowed it to be more open ended to lead into the next 3 films, and obviously completely redo the prequal trilogy).  If that could be done then including things like flashbacks (which currently seem very unstarwarsy, for lack of a better word) would be a brilliant way of doing this.  And I think what you have said would definitely be better than George's way of doing things as you are suggesting we see change on Tatooine between one visit and the next.  Sorry if you have said this already but would you be showing Tatooine near the start of episode 1 and then not again until episode 4? 

Mrebo said:

I'm not quite married to my version starting on Tatooine...but I have been engaged to it for awhile. Will have to consider it more. Hmmm...

I have considered many ideas of using Coruscant in a NPT, or in a new RotJ, or even in an outline for what if RotJ wasnt the end but the stepping stone for Episodes 7-9 in which Coruscant could then appear in E9.  However, I think the more it crops up, the more it reduces the perceived size of the galaxy.  And with the example of Coruscant, even more so when specifically showing the senate because it instantly shows how many (and how few) systems are represented. 

Reusing Tatooine creates the same problem.  So much so that I would even suggest Jabba be moved to another planet, even if it looks identical apart from an establishing shot of the planet which shows it has more water than Tatooine.  Not all planets have to be completely different and have only a single type of terrain, otherwise we run out very quickly (as George did). 

If you want a mention of Owen's disapproval I would suggest having a conversation between Obi Wan and Anakin where Obi Wan states that Owen was just angry and Beru will forgive Anakin.  Then Anakin could say that he has no idea which planet they will even end up on now the war has spread so far (or something to this effect).  This way nothing in the OT is contradicted so it all makes sense when viewed 1 to 6, and E4 will actually expand on what is hinted at in E1.  In addition, suggesting that Beru and Owen are travelling to a new planet, the location of which is unknown to Anakin would make Obi Wan leaving Luke there much less stupid. 

I find it hard when trying to dream up the perfect New PT because I am always torn between what I would want if I had a blank canvas to create whatever I think is best, or what I think can be done to edit the existing PT into better films.  Even my drastic edits that I have suggested on here aren't as drastically different as I would want them, but I have found that by attempting to edit the material we already have it made me consider some of the questions which are often raised in a slightly different light. 

With regards to the OT secrets, personally I will always be in favour of preserving those. 

A lot of thought goes into how Obi Wan and Anakin meet.  However, if we meet them whilst they are already friends it means that what we are shown only has to enforce this great friendship, not create it entirely.  Personally I think this would be better as it is easier, and still works really well (just think of Han and Chewie, or even Vader and the Emperor before the PT came out).  This would also allow Anakin to simply mention his step brother without there having to be a full explanation on screen, thus allowing Owen's words more room to be truthful. 

Also if we just have Anakin and Obi Wan meet up with Bail as old friends who already know each other from their time during the Clone Wars then it means its another part of the back story that doesn't have to be forced into the new story. 

As I said this isn't necessarily how I would have my ideal NPT but from the point of view of editing the existing ones, it can be explained in the new crawl before episode 1 that Obi Wan has begun training Anakin, and that the two helped Bail in the last Battle of the Clone Wars.  This then leaves the actual film much less restricted without pulling a Lucas and just throwing everything we already know out of the window.  Just thought this approach might help if anyone is struggling how to incorporate certain things from the OT.

Bingowings said:

It's pretty much a proposal for an edit (an ambitious edit with lots of almost impossible face mapping but who knows what might be possible in a few years time?).

Much of the story and the footage remains as in the theatrical versions but re-shuffled.

See when I originally thought of this I realised that the hardest thing to do with the story was leave Anakin in.  Thats why I suggested changing it to Obi Wan and Anakin. 

However, if it was left as Qui Gon and Anakin, and Dooku was the bad guy in the background I think the story would work well without needing too much ambitious editing at all (like refilming, though some voices might need to be rerecorded).

The biggest problem is it would be a Prequel story without Anakin Skywalker at all and that does seem a little wrong somehow. 

TV's Frink said:

You might want to introduce this stuff in the scriptwriting forum.

Oh and the reason I posted here instead of the scriptwriting forum is just because I haven't attempted to write a script, or even a really original story.  I've just tried to edit the existing material into a better story.  (Though there are a few parts where I had to try to find additional bits to make it flow).  But most of the notations I have made relate to how the existing material could be edited to tell that story, from a fan editing point of view, so I just felt this forum was more appropriate.

mrbenja0618 said: 

So we are to suspend belief and pretend that Liam Neeson is Anakin? Correct me if this is not what you are suggesting.

If that is the closest that technology will allow us to achieve then yes.  Ideally I think it would be better if we could replace the actors as suggested, but like people have pointed out this whilst not impossible would be very difficult.  More possible would be filming a new actor as a young Anakin, which I wouldn't object to given the poor acting at present.  But again it would be difficult without a lot of money.  Accepting a 'recast' Anakin between episodes 1 and 2, whilst not ideal would be the easiest to achieve from an editing point of view as it would only require a few name changes. 

I can see you think this is ridiculous, and I'm not presenting it as a small thing.  But personally I think the existing prequel storyline is ridiculous (given the source material from the original trilogy).  Therefore, I'm saying the benefits might outweigh the problems.  I did say from the outset it was going to contain radical ideas :)

Ok but if this could be done keeping the characters looking like Obi Wan and Qui Gon as per the original, but telling the story in this way and redubbing Qui Gon to be called Anakin then it would make a huge continuity error between episodes 1 and 2 but besides that I think it would allow for the story to improve so much that the benefits might outweigh that one error. 

Glad you like the story though. 

So thats the story that I think could be told using the footage available, with a minimum amount of extra scenes or extending scenes or anything like that, and I think what would need to be done can be mostly done on the computer rather than actually filming extra stuff.

I would love to get some feedback.

It gets a lot more changed around in the next part . . .

timdiggerm said:

Thanks!

But why big images containing text? It's inefficient and makes the page slower. I guess I can understand having the pictures of the characters (although I think we all know what they look like), but you can easily have just the little pictures along with regular text, instead of great-big-image-files.

Its because i have been making these on my computer as flat image files which can then be uploaded to any number of sites with the information all self contained.  I think there are about 22 images altogether (which obviously I will scale down accordingly now I know how) but yeah they do all contain the text, if you think its a problem I can take them apart to type the text next to them as you suggest, but personally I think it is easier to keep it all together.  What do you suggest?

timdiggerm said:

We can't see giant images that get cut off because they're too wide.

Also, approximately none of that looks like it actually needs to be an image, which mean it's essentially wasting bandwidth. Text please.

Yeah sorry just getting used to posting the images so edited them down now and as it goes on the images are more annotated so I did these in the same way so as to carry on that style, I'll make sure they all fit from now on.

(Credit to ChainsawAsh for the logo)

More to come . . .

I’ve been thinking of a way to make the prequels tell a better story for a while now and it seems to me that a big part of fixing the story requires making the stories much more simple.  This might not please people who think the films are fine as they are but look at the title, you really couldn’t have expected me to say leave them as they are right?  Well one problem seems to be the politics, it slows the story down and whilst it does show a reasonably good explaination for how the republic collapses, it doesn’t make for a great story.  Another thing I disliked was seeing a new badguy every film as it just took time to introduce the new characters and didn’t allow them to develop properly.

So I was thinking if Maul remained the main badguy with Dooku being his master, it allows Palpatine to remain more in the background so everyone doesn’t seem silly for not seeing that coming sooner.  Also rather than have a badly executed friendship story between Anakin and Obi Wan, and love story between Anakin and Padme, just start the story with Anakin and Obi Wan being friends, and have the majority of the love story take place between Episodes 1 and 2 and then just hinted at on screen.

Now this all sounds far too difficult with the footage we have without ending up with very short films, and it probably is.  But personally I would rather have lower quality footage if it meant a better story overall, so some very rough edits and cuts might allow us to see how the story would work, though in reality we would have to just overlook some technical flaws.

With that in mind I want to present a sort of illustrated storyboard of how I think the first of the prequels should be made.  The yellow text tells the story, the red text provides notes on the ideas and the editing possibilities, and the images provide a rough guide, nothing more, yet.

With that said I hope it sparks some ideas and I would love to hear feedback.  Whether or not it can lead to an edit this ambitious I don’t know but just keep looking and we’ll see.

Darth_ender - I think this is the perfect place to discuss something like this as the original purpose of this thread is to discuss whether this story could be adapted in a visual way, and as there are no films for these storys which we can edit then it presents us only one option, to create 'footage'.  This idea is not a million miles away from the idea of filming new scenes to incorporate into the existing star wars movies (something I want to try to create with models for space battles, and perhaps one day with actors for small scenes like Luke building his lightsaber, and the rebel troops on Endor).

Personally I would much rather see any attempts to do this in live action that 3d or 2d animations because then parts might be interchangable with the actual films and open up more edting options. 

There are some pretty common ideas to editing the prequels which are hard to do (to the point I dont think they have been done in an edit - but may be wrong) but which most people agree would be good if they could be done.

Such as:

- giving Obi Wan another apprentice so that that apprentice can be assumed to be Vader and thus maintain the reveal in ESB

- having Maul become Grievous so that we the PT villians arent always swapping and changing.

- bringing the original look Vader into the PT - possibly to help maintain the secracy of his identity. 

Originally I tried to use these ideas as rules to form ideas for how the PT should be remade (because I didnt think an edit could achieve this), but I'm starting to change my mind.

For example, if Maul and Grievous are the same character, and he was once taught by Obi Wan, and Grievous was made to look more like an early version of Vader's armour then this would achieve the examples mentioned above.  It would require a lot of editing of the look of Grievous but I think it would be worth it. 

The only downside is I cannot think of a way to show Maul as Obi Wan's apprentice without them being flashback scenes of some kind.  Either as a dream or a straight flashback, but either way it doesn't seem very Star Warsy.  However, that asside here is the basic outline for Episode 1 using this idea. 

The opening crawl states how Naboo is a peaceful planet being attacked by a Trade Federation (possibly just called the Federation) who are aiming to imprison the people and sell them as slaves.  Two jedi, posing as ambassadors, are attempting to help free Naboo. 

The film would then begin as normal but a remove the attempted gassing and have a direct attack on the door in an attempt to reach Gunray.  When this fails they retreat to the surface.  There they meet Binks who is a Gungan scout sent from a neighbouring planet.  He agrees to help and using his ship the Jedi reach the palace.  At the palace they rescue the Queen but learn that all communications are being jammed. 

Ideally there would be a scene here where the Naboo forces with the help of the jedi destroy the communications jammer, but I dont think there would be sufficient footage.  So somehow they manage to make a communication to the Chancellor (Palpatine) who says that the situation is being discussed and that the Republic will resolve the issue in time. 

Obi Wan has bad dreams about his former apprentice who was lost and presumed killed on a previous mission (through no fault of Obi Wan), the apprentice would look like a very young Maul.  Ideally the two Jedi would be Obi Wan and Anakin though this may prove impossible but for simplicity of explanation lets assume it can be done and that Obi Wan and Anakin in this film look how they look in AotC.  Obi Wan would tell Anakin about how he has had a vision that Maul did not die but was taken by another jedi who he recognises as Dooku (a jedi who left the order years ago). 

Binks informs the small Naboo force that he has received communications from the Gungans who have sent an attack force along with Bail Organa from Alderaan, in the hope that their alliance can defeat the Federation.  The Gungans then land to draw the droid army away from the city, the Alderaan fighters (which are the yellow Naboo fighters in the original) then attack the Federation blockade.  Together they win as per tPM, but in trying to retake the palace the jedi encounter Maul who engages them.  In this edit Qui Gon and Dooku would essentally be merged so that footage of Qui Gon fighting Maul in the desert could be a flashback of a sparring and training session.  Neither of the Jedi would end up dying and Obi Wan would eventually defeat Maul as in tPM (though he wouldnt fall in half, just a shallow slice through the stomach and a long fall). 

Then after the fights are resolved a few extra scenes.  Firstly Bail would address the Gungans and possibly others (Ackbar perhaps) suggesting how these alliances are necessary if the Republic won't protect its planets.  Then perhaps reuse a scene between Palpatine and Amidala from Coruscant but move it to Naboo, where he informs her of the illegality of the formation of alliances for the purposes of war.  Then finally show Dooku lifting the body of Maul, and end on a dark medical lab (like the one on Hoth in ESB) but in the tank is Maul and besides the tank is some armour that looks like a Vader style mask but also with Grievous style armour too.  Then have the scene close with Maul's eyes opening to show he is still alive and being rebuilt. 

Without being able to extend any of the scenes (such as the space battle) the runtime would be massively shorter, and unless Qui Gon could be changed to a teenage Anakin then obviously there is the massive plot hole of Anakin not being in it at all.  However, besides that, I think the rest of the things could be shown with existing footage, and perhaps a few shots from other films used as the younger Darth Maul. 

What do you guys think of these ideas?

WhatsMyName said:

yea, but by Episode IV, all they were doing it getting weapon systems online and testing them.

Read Death Star Novel: Talks about how there first test was on a planet they had been orbiting. blew away half the planet.

My main thinking behind this is that in my 'perfect' saga fan edit/ideas then there would be no Death Star in RotJ, therefore, the Death Star in A New Hope could be changed to something more along the lines of the one from RotJ without it resulting in a copy that appears in two films. 

Also another dream would be for the saga to have continued to Episode 9 where the Emperor would finally be destroyed, and this could potentially reveal a finished Death Star.  By showing the two versions in this order it allows an audience to be more concerned the second time round because it knows just how powerful the unfinished Death Star from Episode 4 was so when we see a finished one in Episode 9 everyone would know how serious the problem was.  But like I said this is just dreaming because an additional 3 films goes far beyond the scope of a fan edit.  However, I don't think that necessarily invalidates my reasoning behind the changing of the Death Star in Episode 4.

Yeah maybe, just something that is visually incomplete, but yet still clearly daunting.  We would see from the destruction of Alderaan that it is operational, but like between scenes you would imagine the rebels taking the attitude that its best to stop it before it is finished. 

Just to be very radical for a moment, I think the Death Star should be unfinished.  Perhaps more finished than in RotJ but still visibly still under construction. 

That way the plans could be proof that the Empire is constructing a superweapon, rather than just being a technical readout which they hope will provide details of a weakness (though this was never guaranteed).  Also it makes it more reasonable that the rebels would attack before it is completed, and more likely that they could scrape a victory. 

I dont think it would be hard to change the views of the DS to look unfinished, it would just require the script to be checked for references to it being complete.  It could still be operational with regards to being able to fire its main weapon.

I've just watched this and think it is a massive improvement.  Other people have already given a breakdown of both improvements and flaws, so without wanting to repeat what has already been said these are what I thought were the most memorable parts, both good and bad.

Story changes:

- The idea of how they plan to free Han was much better (Chewie's capture, etc), the only downside was that the footage available had to be trimmed so much to create it and left the Jabba story feeling short, but I'd rather have it short and be left wanting more than long and drawn out like it is in the original. 

- Jabba's character can be changed a lot through his script (because it is subtitles) and I was hoping he would seem even more gritty and sinister, but I think this is more of a reflection of what I would have liked than a critisism of your edit. 

- Changing the Emperor's location was a good idea but I think it needed to be better established.  I think if it had been a first time viewing of the film then it might have been slightly confusing as to which ship he was on (though not necessarily important), but because we are all so used to him being on the death star then it could have done with a slightly longer or clearer establishing shot.  Also I think this is the reason everyone (including myself) was expecting the DS to be visible from the windows during all shots, just to reinforce to us that he isnt on the DS any more. 

- The way Luke senses his friends are in danger, I think if I hadnt known that was what you were going for then I might have been a little confused by that part and it did sort of make those few minutes feel jumpy.  But the idea itself was good, its just a shame there wasnt better material available to improve the way it was executed.

Technical Issues:

- Sound sync issues (most noticable was the Lando line near the Sarlac pit but I think the sounds leading up to that were also a little off, it was just there werent any lines as obvious as that one).

- Moving from one scene to another did sometimes feel fast, especially Yoda's death to Tatooine.  As far as the placing of this scene, brilliant, but I'd have liked the transition to have been a little slower, either a slower fade, or perhaps a little pause before the fade.  A similar thing happened later but I cannot think which scene it was. 

- I wasnt that keen on the duel being continuous, for exactly the reason mentioned by someone else earlier, breaking it up lets us assume there was more to it, otherwise its very short really.  Also I ended up liking the version in the extras so that would be my choice but I understand it if it was simply a choice of the music. 

Other than this I'd say you did a really good job with what you had to work with and that other than perhaps a little polishing it was brilliant.  I think the majority of what you cut was what should have been cut.  Well done, your hard work really shows.