Johannus

jonathan7 said:

 it would seem to me to crank up the tension we could see quite a few rebel ships destroyed. (Possibly add the additional fighters cock-pit shots). Generally I think the more subtle approach may be easier...

However I would also suggest it would also make sense for the battle not to turn until the Emperor is killed... At that point things turn around. I'd also suggest a more fitting end for the Executor; perhaps have one of the Mon-Calamari ships ram the whole bridge section?

I like your suggestions about showing the rebel ships being destroyed, and the way the battle turns.  Could we maybe make it seem like the imperials success is hinged on a few large ships like the Executor, and obviously the Death Star, so if those can be taken out it is believable the rebels can win?

As for the way the Executor is taken down, I'd thought maybe keep the sequence of Akbar ordering all fire on the super star destroyer, and everything up to the A-Wing crashing through and taking it down, then the Executor crashing down onto the Death Star, but adding additional shots to make the actual assault of the Executor take longer.  For example we could show larger rebel ships moving alongside to attack it too, then show other fighters attacking too, then once its weakened the A-wing crashes through, causes a large explosion, and the ship begins to fall to the death star.  Or something along those lines.  That way we get to add more new ships, see more of the Executor, and see some larger ships fighting side by side.

jonathan7 said:

I'd still be a huge fan of having the Emporer arrive on a Super-star destroyer... I did like what Spence's idea (though not seen it) with having The Emporer, Vader and Luke there instead of on the Death Star.

I've seen this and as an idea I thought it worked great, but I think the actual execution would need to be improved because the establishing shot of the Executor is very brief and it doesn't make it obvious the Emperor is meant to be there, in my opinion at least.  However, as I said, the idea that the Emperor is somewhere else really makes us understand why Luke would have to go there to take him on, rather than just let the Death Star blow up and finish him off. 

jonathan7 said:

I think a good rule of thumb would perhaps be if someone is working on a scene it's upto them what they do. So for example Johannus, what extra ships would you like to add? The only caviate to that is if an idea effects the plot elsewhere in the film...

I agree with this.  As I said I already made changes to scenes based on how I thought it worked best, in some cases disregarding the vote.  But with the battle in particular I find it very hard to know where to start.  I had the idea before of trying to extend existing shots then add some of the new ships in there (like my B-Wing test video), but that didn't seem to go down that well, which suggests either adding new shots with the new ships, in which case they could go anywhere and do anything, again a very wide scope and I think the biggest thing to keep in mind in that case would be how the film flows.  Or alternatively the ships could just be added in the backgrounds of existing shots, which though possibly easier to do, might lead to them becoming barely noticable to anyone who isn't told they are there.  This would fulfill the subtlety I think we wanted, but it would also seem a bit of a shame after spending the necessary time rotoscoping.

Do you think it could be worth making a rough storyboard of the battle so we can have a better idea of how people think the new shots would work or would that be unnecessary?  Am I the only one that finds this sequence hard to imagine properly?

To be honest I'm not sure thats a good idea.  As flattered as I am with the offer I feel I would have a different idea to many of the ways this thread has already decided to take the project.  Just look at those cilps, many are changes I want to see rather than things we specifically agreed by voting on. 

I think I see this as a place where I will contribute what I can when I can, and it is most likely I will focus most heavily on the changes I consider as being a part of my personal edit.  Whether I ever end up making a whole edit of my own who knows, but in the meantime I am happy to share anything I do create with the team here and chip in as and when I can. 

I think the problem here is we had a lot of chatter when we were brainstorming, so it all seemed incredibly popular.  However, with each refinement some people's ideas slipped away and gradually so would the people.  Then, what was the editing team would be left to do all the work, and in some cases it was working towards ideas they disagreed with, so the passion for it thinned.  Then someone like Ron who spent a lot of time working with his editting found himself needing a break from it, so maybe it was all a little too much too fast.  Why don't we essentially go back to the drawing board, and instead of worrying about hashing out a finished script or a finished edit, see if we can't finish off a few scenes we mostly agreed on. 

For example I would love to have a go at trying to put a few more ships into the space battle like we spoke about before, but whenever I go to start it I get put off by how many new ships we wanted, mixed with just how unspecific we were about where to include them, it was so vague I don't know where to start. 

If we discuss that we can be working on clips and things as we chat and hopefully if we talk enough we would end up with almost enough clips to put into the film and end up with a new edit with relatively little work towards the end. 

What do you think?

Davnes007 said:

Since it's your account, you can still watch it, but no one else can.

And, it's probably the video that got it blocked, not the audio.

Yeah I guessed it was the audio because I have made changes to the video and it has been recompressed a few times whereas I did very little with the audio, but youtube wants to be silly about these things so I've got a vimeo account so will use that from now on.

Right here it is on Vimeo.

http://vimeo.com/39267076

How odd, it still loads for me, I will try uploading a version without sound, hopefully that will slip through undetected.

Here is the longer trailer I have been working on.  As I said a lot of the choices reflect my personal choices more than they reflect the votes, but I just wanted to practise with After Effects and this seemed as good a way as any. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEPPAjNK7cQ&feature=youtu.be

The shots aren't all finished, but I just wanted to get something together to try and get a bit more discussion going here again.  Let me know what you think.

Hey guys, I see things have been very quiet on here lately but I have been trying to put together some clips for a trailer and here is just a little preview. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHOqN16HCy4&feature=youtu.be

I have taken some liberties with regards to some of the changes I've been working on but I am hoping it adds more canges to the trailer rather than just cutting up the existing film.  Anyway hopefully I will have something more to show soon. 

Also on a different subject, I went to see the Hunger Games the other day and there is a brief part in the film where a forested area is on fire.  If we decided to use the idea of a forest fire on Endor then I noticed at least one shot that could be used from this film. 

darth_ender said:

I hope for more B-wings, though I don't know if I'd include them in that particular shot.  I imagine a very grand attack just on the Executor, and perhaps in some of the other shots we could see the B-wings attacking.  Your work may be pretty rough, but it looks fun and pretty good, Johannus.

The reason I used that shot was just before it Ackbar says to concentrate all fire, then we see two ships attack it so I thought it would be good to add a few more and why not B-Wings if we want to increase their involvement.  I would definitely still like more new shots but those would probably require using either physical or 3D models., this was just a little play around with still images to show how we could theoretically expand a few existing shots. 

timdiggerm said:

Yeah, that's not really what B-Wings are for. My impression of the situation is that B-Wings are meant to be the TIE-Bombers of the Rebels, directly attacking the main body of Star Destroyers with warheads.

I always thought the Y-Wings were the Rebel's bombers, though I'm now unsure whether I've read that somewhere or imagined it. 

Heres another idea for expanding the space battle.  As usual expect something rough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yqojC1wDE

Thanks for the feedback guys.  So if I change the DS shot so the laser hits the ship and it just blows instantly that seems to be the preferred option, but what do you think of the actual look of that shot?  I know some of the masking is a little crude but the reason I ask is it is just a still photo of a ship model that I used so I just wanted to know how believable it looked cause obviously there isn't that much movement in it.

Yeah I was trying to avoid using that shot so that it would expand the battle a little more by adding a new shot.  Also going to have a play around with adding some B-Wings next time I get chance so hopefully that will work.

Ronster said:

I'm still unsure about the cheesewire Deathstar laser idea I think the ship just needs to go Bang! like everything else that it fires at does.

I think that could probably be made into that kind of a shot, I just used the existing shot I had already made but it needs working on anyway because of the lazy masking I did on it so next time I get to it I'll try to make it explode on impact so to speak.  Other than that we would just need to decide on the music and record a couple of lines. 

I would quite like to have a raction shot from Lando too but I'm not sure if I can pinch an existing shot without taking it from somewhere it would be better suited so its not perfect but I was quite happy with it.  Thanks Ron.

Not to interrupt the Anakin ghost argument too much, but I have a completely unrelated mock up video for everyone to see.  Its still got rough effects and no proper sound done yet but thought you might like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8HgrnDboOU

fishmanlee said:

Is there much a difference between 860 and 900 years old though?

Enough for Yoda to look very different in the PT than the OT.

Regarding whether Vader should be Hayden of Sebastian it comes down to whether he should look old or young, not whether the audience can tell that the unVadered actor is meant to be the guy from the suit, because if you watch 6 films then both actors are recognisable, and if you only watch the OT then only Shaw is recognisable.  However, if Anakin was meant to be shown as a young version of himself why did Lucas not cast a young actor at the time.  He had already cast Shaw specifically for the force ghost.  This isn't something where the excuse 'the technology wasn't available' works so it seems that instead it was done purely as an afterthought to try to drag aspects of the PT into the OT.  If he had included Hayden but aged him to look as old as Shaw did then fine, at least that still follows the original plan, but to make him young just because that how he looked last time he was good and we have to be able to make that link ourselves, well that seems to underestimate the audience a little bit in my opinion. 

TV's Frink said:

If I might make a suggestion re a trailer...make a trailer that highlights the changes in one way or another.  Otherwise people think you are just showing them a fan-made trailer for the original movie.

I completely agree.  It should include as many of the mock ups of new ideas as possible (even if ultimately we don't use those exactly as they were presented). 

I would also suggest changing the name to something other than just Return of the Jedi.  Either one of the new suggestions such as Last of the Jedi, or adding something, such as Return of the Jedi: Reimagined, or something, again to further highlight the fact it is different from the original and make it easier for people to find the project.

With regards to finding costumers to help I have so far had someone with a Vader costume, and someone with a Scout trooper costume say they are interested in helping.  I have also spoken to a few people in the US that seem to like the idea, but I would have to pass their information on to someone in the US to film things there. I'm still confident we will find more, it just seems to take time to get the individuals to come forward, probably because its a close community and I'm still very new.  I am actually looking into making a costume of my own (an X Wing pilot) and joining them on an outing, so I can talk to them face to face about it, as I think it would be a lot easier to generate interest this way.  I also know someone with his own camera who I am hoping I can get to help (though it will depend on actual dates quite a lot), and I am still hoping I can find someone else with a camera to help too as this would be a big help.  Given that several groups of people are in the process of making fan films at any given time, we could just try to put a list together and contact them in the hope they could also add something for us to work with. 

There also seems to be a group of costumers in the US who are currently filming footage for Adywan to use in ESB:R so assuming they intend to help in the same way with RotJ:R then perhaps we could contact them too?  Just kinda making this up as I go, but given that camera and costumes are the two big expenses in something like this, and we know there are already Star Wars fans out there with access to them, then the more help we can get and the less we have to spend out ourselves the better.  There are only two official groups of costumers in the UK and one seems to be ignoring my attempts to contact them altogether, but in the US there are dozens, so maybe if we could convince a few of the leaders of those groups, it would be much easier to spread the word. 

I also find it has been difficult to get across exactly what we are trying to do, to people who aren't familiar with fan editing, and who largely don't see the films as in need of changing, so I was thinking some sort of trailer showing a few examples of what we are trying to achieve might help to generate a bit more awareness. 

There are a few things I would like to add to the vote if I may.  Firstly I would like to push once more for the Bothan scene as I (very crudely) mocked up because I didn't really get much feedback on that.  I know it is possibly the most extravegant version suggested but I feel it would really set this apart from other edits. 

Also I would like to push for the idea of making Jabba's palace seedier.  I'm open to ideas on how but someone suggested using clips of other dancers and editing them in.  If we do then I would like to suggest using a redheaded girl which could then be Mara Jade (one of the only ideas from the EU that I like).  To anyone who doesn't like the EU it would just be a redheaded girl, and she wouldn't pop up again but to anyone who likes Mara Jade it could be Mara Jade.  Much in the same way as the Eclipse would be just another ship in the context of this film. 

I would also like to see a second sail barge added as per the original concept art.  I made a mock up of this ages ago and put forward an idea of how it could be dealt with but I am not at my computer at the moment so I will have to expand on this later.  Basically it wouldn't interfere with the story, but visually it would make Luke's survival and victory seem much more unlikely and thus impressive. 

I would also like to see more alien species mixed into the background as a part of the rebel forces on Endor (such as Wookiee commandos).  This would probably only be possible by shooting new footage, so I don't know if you would want to include this in the vote or not as we are uncertain on how practical that will be, but the idea is there if you would like to. 

Thats all I can think of at the moment but just wanted to get them down here before all the voting options are gathered for the final vote.  I wander though whether it would be worth holding off on this final vote for a touch longer until we have further discussed some of the more divided issues such as the Bothan scene, and some of the newer ideas like making Jabba's palace darker. 

So in most of the different ideas threads people will at some point suggest an idea which just isn’t possible with the footage available.  Sometimes people just suggest reshoot the Prequels in their entirety, but assuming that would be just too costly, I was thinking maybe we should have a place to discuss new scenes or shots which could be useful to help portray a specific idea.

For example I would really like to see a new scene in RotJ where Luke constructs his lightsaber.  However, as much as it can be mocked up with existing shots, it would be very hard to edit those shots enough to make the footage look new.  So a way of solving that could be to edit the shots where you see Luke’s face, but film new shots showing Luke from the back or distant shots where his face cannot be made out properly, then if editted carefully it could provide a whole new scene for RotJ.

Another idea could be shooting a few new shots for the duel between Obi Wan and Vader in ANH so the fight can be tightened up a bit, but without having to reduce its runtime or reuse footage (just tightening it up the way ADY tried to).

Anyway, so many people benefit from bouncing ideas off one another that I figure whilst most people don’t consider filming new footage, this thread could eventually provide inspiration when somone finally does.

Right it looks like I have started contacting costumers at just the right time because a friend of mine who is studying film making has just asked me for a favour, so i figure if I can get some positive responce from the costumers, I may have myself a cameraman/director for anything new we could shoot (in the UK). 

That said I thought it might be worth getting the ball rolling a little with ideas.  As Darth Ender said pilots are going to be useful, and I am thinking it would be for cockpit shots?  So those could be filmed individually which would be a big benefit.  Would there be any need to film shots of pilots together?  Maybe a group sitting together could be placed in the briefing room to add to the numbers?  But then how well would that be able to be integrated with the existing shots of that room. 

Obviously the ground battle on Endor could be added to but as I suggested, someone in California would be more use unless someone can suggest a good wooded area in the UK but I seriously doubt there is anything similar enough.  Because of that if there were any extra shots of rebel commandos in the bunker or anything like that it would probably be better to film those in California too so we don't have to worry about finding similar looking extras, so I am (at the moment) putting aside the whole Endor ground battle. 

What about a shot of Vader actually opening Luke's lightsaber (as the mockup Angel made a while back), would that be necessary or would we be able to edit the existing shot easily enough without refilming?

Vader walking down a corridor perhaps, in the style of the interactive board game footage Darth Ender found, because we could reshoot in a higher quality?

New shots of dancers, band members, or other scum which could then be mixed in with the Jabba's palace sequence to make it look darker and scummier, or just to replace a few of the shots people don't like so we aren't having to sacrifice runtime?

I have messaged a person who has a screen accurate Yoda puppet, so if that pans out we could potentially get some new shots of Yoda.

I know I am pushing this idea a little but I would rather get way too many ideas and then find out which ones are the most possible, than find I have some people interested in helping, and then have no idea how to use them.  So if anyone has any idea at all (RotJ only at the moment) that you might not have voiced in the past because there wasn't suitable footage or whatever, then please just start suggesting anything.  If it can't be done it can't be done, but who knows, anything is possible.  The people on these sites make just about every costume from the films, the EU, and even made up stuff, there are even people making Gonk droids so no suggestion is too far fetched while we are just brainstorming. 

Vladius said:

Johannus said:

 I'm not 100% sure but I think there is a similar garrison in the US where they have a spefic following of Endor troopers (I think it is in California, but only going from memory), which it might be more useful to get in touch with.  The reason for this is even if I find a dozen suitable costumers willing to help out in the UK, I have no idea where we could film in a woodland that would pass as Endor (though I'm open to suggestions).

 

You answered your own question! California, definitely. But if there's any Canadians around Vancouver works very well too.

Sorry I meant if theres any locations in the UK, if its only California then someone over there would have to do something similar.

Ronster said:

I already have the shot of him walking away.... From the sandstorm deleted scene footage

I'm only guessing but wouldn't it be better quality if we reshot it?  Though to be honest I didn't realise that shot was even available in the deleted scenes so it is probably best to use proper footage wherever possible.

Can anyone suggest a star wars fan-film where Vader chokes a general or admiral of a star destroyer I need this footage...

I don't but I will add it to the list of ideas to film if nobody can think of some footage for you. 

Well the guy I spoke to said its quite a wide community of people that visit the site, mostly costumers, but also fan film makers and so on, so if we are very lucky we might even meet someone there with the means to film things for us, who knows.  I'm not 100% sure but I think there is a similar garrison in the US where they have a spefic following of Endor troopers (I think it is in California, but only going from memory), which it might be more useful to get in touch with.  The reason for this is even if I find a dozen suitable costumers willing to help out in the UK, I have no idea where we could film in a woodland that would pass as Endor (though I'm open to suggestions).  Pilots would be easier because there are so many types and they could be used in a number of 'sets' so I'll see what I can do there. 

Would it be easier to find a good Vader costumer and try to reshoot him walking and then superimpose that onto a new background than trying to restore the delete scene footage of Vader walking down the corridor?

Something I always wanted to see is a couple of Wookiee troops mixed in with the rebel troops on Endor (and maybe other races too), never given much screen time, but to show a more diverse alliance compared to the human Empire.  I don't know how possible that would be but I think it might be worth considering things like that because I just don't know what costumers might be interested, but if we have a big list of ideas we would like to make happen, we can tick or cross them off as and when we find out what we would have available.

I'd rather not add to Darth_ender's workload with regards to having to keeping track of even more ideas and suggestions so if it is ok with everyone I would be very willing to try to organise these ideas and then see how realistic they are with regards to finding the costumers to help.  Would anyone mind that? 

I know this might be a bit of a pipe dream (and I have spoken out against it in the past), but if we were to film new shots of characters what would we want? 

The reason I ask is I have been in touch with someone who runs the UK garrison of Star Wars costumers (because I'm in the UK so it seemed the easiest, but there are similar groups all across the world and loads in America).  I briefly explained what goes on at this site and asked if he thought the people who are involved with costuming might be up for helping with reshooting the odd bit or shooting new scenes or whatever, and he was very supportive.  Obviously I still need to speak to the individuals themselves because each person makes the costumes they want so it would be up to them, but their costumes are very much screen accurate so it would save us having to try to buy or make accurate costumes if we can rope in some people who already have them. 

With that in mind I was wondering what characters I should be looking out for?  I doubt we are going to find anyone who is a convincing twin of any of the main characters, but we could probably find someone with a convincing enough Luke costume to film a shot of him with his hood up walking away from the camera which could then be used to form a shot of Luke visiting his old home (like Ron's mock up).  Other examples might be trying to create extra shots to help more smoothly transition between the film footage and the deleted bunker scene or something like that.

Anyway, this is definitely a work in progress of an idea, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to get a few ideas rolling and see if we can make any happen. 

Here is a little clip I put together to further demonstrate my idea from earlier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qZWAz5lu0U&feature=youtu.be