Jeyl

SilverWook said:

And Jeyl, Voyager was shot on film, but edited on video, which means we may never see it in HD. Cropping the shots can be done, as with the proposed prologue using TOS footage shown a couple pages back.

I know they were edited on video, but the original series was edited on film, which is why we can get that series in high deffiniton while everything else (besides Enterprise) we cannot. So yes, it is possible to crop those shots, but it won't look anywhere near as good as TOS grabs.

SilverWook said:

Caught part of the Voyager episode "Prophecy" tonight, and it's got some Klingon cruiser shots you might be able to use, including an explosion.

It might work, but the format of the episode may cause some problems. Voyager was shot on tape and formatted in a 4:3 image. If we're going to use anything from the footage, we'll not only have to make the image look like film, but also zoom in or crop the image to fit it within the 2:35:5 aspect ratio for the rest of the film.

doubleofive said:Would you feel better about the information coming over the speakers if it was your voice?  I'm sure that could be arranged. ;-P

I highly doubt it. I'm one of those guys with the voices that will not only take you out of the movie, but down right make you remember "Did you listen to his voice? It was atrocious!" I have no masculine tones in my voice at all, and I never sound serious no matter how serious I think I sound. I normally don't talk at all when I'm being videotaped because whenever I watch videos of me talking, I storm out the room it sounds so bad.

I honestly have no idea why my friends put up with it.

doubleofive said:

I like how we converted you from "Klingon Battle? It'll never work!" to "Here's the shots you need to do it!"

:-D

Oh, no doubleofive. That's not what I'm saying. I KNOW it won't work. But gosh, I'm having a ball in trying to think of ways so it can. I guess the only thing in my point of view that doesn't ring right is the complete lack of dialogue concerning the klingons. But that's pretty much it.

We can always go the JJ Abrams route by having all the important information be said over background com chatter...... /shiver. I hated that.

- "You should see this! It looks like a lightning storm!" Important information later on
- "Please advise Captain Robau that Starfleet recommends you to proceed with caution." The Captain's name
- "Repeat, could this be klingon? Negative Lieutenant. You're still 75,000 kilometers-" Establishes it's near Klingon Space
- "Engineer Olsen, report!" Establishes that redshirt Olsen is the ship's engineer
- "Deflector shields are holding!" Ya, right

Adywan, on the first example of the Super Star destroyer, did you gray out the engine on the far right? It's lacking a red glow.

doubleofive said: Adding damage to the E for every shot afterward would require a ton of work that I don't think any of us could do.  We could replace every shot of the ship with one from Star Trek 2 or 3, but then people would start to wonder why she always seems to get damaged in the exact same spots.  Weak points in the hull or something?

Ya, best not bring in the same damage from 2 and 3. Especially 3 where that extra damage is a mystery in of itself.

I would make a point that tying the engineering electricity and Chekov's station electrocuting him with the Klingon attack will be a bit more difficult since the effects clearly resemble V'Ger's plasma bolt effect. I recommend not having the warp core be electrocuted but leave the panel as is, maybe with a bit more sparl. This is what I have in mind in terms of re-editing the scene.

*Enterprise takes another shot from the Klingons. Station screens on the bridge flicker on and off*
- Decker: Registering power loss on force fields.
- Kirk: Engineering, what's happening with our force fields?
*Over the shoulder shot of Ilia looking at the screen, seeing the Klingons firing another shot* Scotty: Systems overloading captain! *Cut to engineering* Our shields cannot handle another --
*Enterprise's is hit again, leaving the ship without shields. This time the ships lighting fades in and out from the outside for a quick second. Engineering panel (Not the entire core) reacts with violent sparks, and then cut to Chekov's station* 

Or something like that. The over the shoulder shot I'm referring to is the one where we see the original Plasma Bolt vanish thanks to Spock sending the signal in time, which was not used in the Director's Edition.

FanFiltration said: This is Star Trek, not a porno film!

Well, you sure fooled me with all those tight revealing skin-toned uniforms. Oh, hey. Ensign? Could you reach up to the ceiling and replace that broken light bulb? AHHHH!

Here's another question in regards to the klingon attack on the Enterprise. You say you're going to have the Klingons open fire on the Enterprise which will cause Chekov's station to burn him and engineering to go haywire. How will you handle Enterprise's damage? Will their shields be up during the attack and everything that goes on inside just be a reaction, or will the Enterprise lose it's shields and sustain physical battle damage on the outside? Remember how in Star Trek Insurrection everything on the inside of the ship gets blasted all to heck, yet the outside is so perfectly clean cut that it looks like it came out of the drydock?

It's got to be deep and it's got to be rough! Ooo, I'm so excited.

Oh, thanks for making that comic mock-up of the sequence Doubleofive. I hope it works out.

doubleofive said:I like the idea of the Klingons laying in a course.  The establishing shot that zooms on the bridge of the ships could be used, with some rearranged shots of the interiors to make new dialog about laying in a course.  We could put whatever we wanted on the viewscreens.  I wish the subtitles weren't burnt into the image...

What gave me the idea was that brief scene from "The Hunt from Red October" where Captain Tupelov receives his late orders to destroy the Red October. It's a quick 1 minute long scequence that establishes his character and reasons for taking this order seriously. The Klingons could assume that the V'Ger cloud might be of Federation origin since it's heading directly back to Earth, and with newly refitted Enterprise right beside it possibly giving escort. 

I know the idea of attacking Kirk simply because he's Kirk is a fun means to justify the sequence, but do we really need another Captain Klaa? To quote SFdebris:

"Does it make much sense to you that they'd tolerate people flying around and firing on their greatest enemy, who may possibly have a planet annihilate   weapon? At least Kruge's plan was to get a great weapon to defend his people, something the high council would definitely endorse and reward him for, while Klaa here is planning to attack....... because he's fu$%&ng bored!"

In regards to the subtitles, the scenes showing the Klingons talking don't really have that much movement. How hard do you think it would be to splice in previous sections of footage over the parts with the subtitles?

Oooo. This will be interesting. It seems that the Klingons come in quite abruptly. Will there be any shots of the Klingons where they pick up the first klingon cruiser and lay in an intercept course for the cloud? The trick about this added sequence is why the Klingons would openly attack the Enterprise when the threat is obviously the big blue cloud. Do they assume that the Federation had something to do with it?

Doh, I'm asking too many questions. I want all the masters of all the Klingon sequences! We need more footage!

I still don't know how you are going to have the Klingons from the opening attack the Enterprise. What reaction shots from the Enterprise are you going to use? Will there be dialogue somehow from the characters? This is the biggest draw for me in regards to this edit because even I can't think of a way of doing it.

adywan said: That was a huge problem, as i have said before, with the PT - everything was explained too much.

I would argue that there wasn't enough explanations to begin with. For instance, the Sith are the big baddies of the series. That's fine, but who are the Sith? Why do they want revenge? Why did they go extinct? 

Or what about the prophecy? What does it say exactly? What's out of balance that makes it so important? Why would bringing the force back into balance be a good thing? Why do the Jedi still believe in this prophecy that involves a chosen one destroying the Sith when they themselves believe that the Sith are extinct and that their reemergence would be impossible? And for that matter, when both the prophecy AND the Sith are brought up in the same exact meeting, why the heck did the Jedi not put the two and two together? 

These are story elements that are left high and dry. Now, you are probably referring to the 'midi-chlorians' explanation in regards to 'explain too much' on how the Force works, and I totally agree with that statement. But even high-end producers like "LOST"'s producer Damon Lindelof misinterpreted why the 'midi-cholirans' chat doesn't work. He uses that as an example on why the show won't be explaining how the island works. He makes it sound like the Force was never given an explanation on how it works before the prequel trilogy was release, and that's not true. The Force was explained in the original trilogy many times by both Obi-Wan and Yoda, that it's an energy field created by all living things that surrounds us, and penetrates us and bind the galaxy together. A Jedi is unique because they can feel the force flowing through them, not because they have more medi-chlorians. 

So don't worry about explaining things, just don't make it look or sound stupid and/or unnecessary. But yes! I do agree that we don't need to emphasize that the vane part breaking away needs to be emphasized. Perhaps not having it fade into the clouds too early would suffice?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there like several dozens of those shafts at various levels in the big Cloud City Chute? There are like six per panel and Luke happens to get sucked into the middle right chute. I would find it highly unlikely that the hand would go down the exact same chute due to the difference in mass, size and weight.

doubleofive said: The theatrical cut is the theatrical cut, warts and all.

Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! 

Make the bad man STOP!

doubleofive said:EDIT: I don't think I ever posted the link to Daren's blog where I discuss this with him.  As I say in there, I love the internet.  How else could I discuss this with someone who, for all intents and purposes, worked on the movie?

Which is why my Jeyl name is compromised in Trekmovie.com. Anything involving Trek09 I just gotta bash! And sometimes, I'll get into arguments with Bob Orci, the writer of Trek09 a lot. The fool actually tried to convince me that Kirk's order to fire all weapons on the helpless and already doomed Narada was the right thing to do. Argh!

Daren is a really cool guy though. I've listened to all his commentaries including the startrek.com one that was an internet exclusive. I'd hate to be in his shoes thinking of the disappointment that Paramount has pretty much abandoned the Director's Edition of ST:TMP.

Oh, are you going to take a shot at getting rid of that pesky 'blue anomaly' that's seen on the bottom left of the screen during the Klingon approach and the Epsilon Nine tour??

I'm still not 100% hooked on greening up the Klingon Ships. Though they had a flavor of green on the detailing, it wasn't as overt as you depict them in your modifications. I'm NOT trying to change your mind about this, I'm just letting you know what I took from TMP's color depiction of the Klingon ships. 

I've always seen green klingon ships as a curse bestowed upon Star Trek ever since Star Trek III introduced the Bird of Prey (BOP). That sucker was originally designed to be a Romulan ship, which in all subsequent material Romulan ships are depicted as being VERY green. But now with all mentions of the BOP being of Romulan origin gone, everyone started putting green on everything klingon. I'm going to miss the good old gray ships. :(

Still, how the heck are you going to get the Klingons to attack the Enterprise? It's impossible!

Ya, that's me. Didn't want to spoil my good old Jeyl name. That's for Trekmovie.com.

And as you've stated in your links, your estimates would be correct. Just as long as you don't call it "Stardate: 2270.2", than I'll be happy. :)

Question in regards to the new opening. The date shows 2270 when Kirk and Crew arrive at Earth with the Enterprise in preparation for it's refit. Shouldn't the date be a little earlier than that since V'Ger shows up in 2271? Kirk has been out of a starship for two and a half years before he took command of the Enterprise again, so shouldn't the date be about two years earlier when they dock the Enterprise? Like 2268 or 2269?

"4) Klingon Battle is now moved to later in film and will become edited into a 3 way conflict (double jeopardy for the Enterprise) between V'ger / Enterprise and the Klingons."

What the? That isn't going to work. Where are you going to get the dialogue? No one on board the Enterprise even mentions Klingons. You're not planning on that dreadful computer doing all the talking, are you?

Although, I wouldn't mind seeing the attempt.

Can I get invite please? I helped out. :(

Eliminate the AT-STs? That doesn't make much sense. They may be in only two shots, but it sounds like you're deleting them for deletion's sake. The Empire does have 'variety' in their forces. 

ImperialFighter said:Adding a hint of a 'deactivating' saber was definately something I'd love to see too.  These were my thoughts from page 42 previously.

I think the shot is fine the way it is. The attention is focused on where it needs to be. Luke clinging to dear life!

If the deactivating saber needs to be put in, I like the idea of it happening when Luke gets sucked out the window

Hey, don't talk low about the Grid Spiders. I like them.

adywan said:well its pretty logical that the falcon wouldn't fly towards the city, then when it reaches the buildings does a 360o turn so that the sun is in the position it shows in the approach shot, then does another 90o turn as it reaches the platform. That makes no sense whatsoever.

But didn't you state a while ago that there could be another sun when I commented on how awkward the new shot of Bespin looked with the clouds being shown in different shades of lighting in the same frame?