Jetrell Fo

I've decided I'm going to try to capture 1 copy of each of my LD sets....no tweaking except for IVTC and what I've found so far is that this sure is a task for a newbie like myself. 

I actually had to adjust my monitors slant to see the last couple of frames at the end of a side so I could edit them together properly.  The fades are tough to catch if you don't look hard enough. 

I noticed it by accident after watching my test capture.  Definitely a learning game.....LOL.

:) 

Through trial and error I've learned a few more things that weren't answered here or elsewhere.  Back to the old drawing board......lmao. 

Darth Editous said:

 

My guess is that it would involve recording to a 48khz wav and renaming the file to ac3. Let me know if you have any pointers on how to start.

I can give you some, starting with "it's not quite that simple" ;)

The first time I captured raw AC3, that is how I did it - you can then save the recorded wav as raw audio, but it will include padding - 0 byte sequences spacing out the real AC3 frames, because an AC3 track doesn't fill a PCM track.

You may also find that the recording skips sometimes, and AC3 frames may get chopped in half, and so on... last time I did a capture I bodged together a program that recorded and validated the AC3 stream as it captured, so if it went wrong it would tell me and I could start again.

For capture, ideally I think it works best using a separate optical/USB box, so you know there's no messing around that can occur with a full soundcard.

I'm sure someone out there still has my AC3 files - and if they don't, I'll probably capture them again one day.

Once you've got the AC3 frames packed together in the file, you can just join the files together and they should decode okay.

DE

 

I have 1 set of your files but I don't know if it's the first set or the fixed set.

captainsolo said:

Jetrell Fo said:

I have the SE 1997 Japan Laserdisc set and I used the red/white RCA in to record the audio when I captured the movies but I'm guessing that can't help you, can it?  What I've got is more like Dolby Stereo right?

If the track was set to digital, then you have a slightly down converted signal of the Dolby Surround encoded PCM.

Yeah, it was set to digital, so probably not bit perfect I'd guess.  Still sounds nice...now if I can get the editing thing down I can have a set for my home viewing pleasure.  

Arnie.d said:

Molly said:

I've been able to edit video without re-encoding AC3 audio...

 Yes, but I'm not looking for the re-encoded ac3 (since it will have to be re-encoded to make it suitable for dvd/blu-ray). I'm looking for the raw capture.

I have the SE 1997 Japan Laserdisc set and I used the red/white RCA in to record the audio when I captured the movies but I'm guessing that can't help you, can it?  What I've got is more like Dolby Stereo right?

With the status of any economy Verbatim discs could be quite a stretch for some people who are just starting out. 

This is probably the first "fan" set I ever got....I still have it too.....a great piece of the puzzle this set was...I still enjoy it now and again.  As it should be.

:)

I've had my colon flushed so someone's been in there......LOL

BloodnoseThePirate said:

Sorry. I had to do it.

That is funny .....  :)

*edited*

DJ,

It's all good, I'm probably just over sensitive today...my bad.

No offense to anyone, I, personally, just don't frickin care.  I mean really?  Each person who does a transfer uses their own knowledge, the knowledge of others, and everything they have available to them to share something with everybody.  

I appreciate what everyone has done regardless of how they saw fit to do it.  This is also the reason why I am hesitant to ever share an archive.  I started one and then realized all too soon that issues like these create far more tension than I'm willing to take on.  

I know comparisons are bound to happen, we do it with all the different releases of the OT, why wouldn't fans have their work looked on any different...but at the fan level, it can be far more personal and it really makes this noob squeamish.

Thanks again for all those who take the plunge and offer up their work to this world of fans......cheers!!!!

:)   

MeBeJedi said:

First of all, what video editor are you using?

 

Secondly, don't worry too much about a frame here or there, as long as your audio and video line up. That frame is one of 30 that will be shown in a single second - it's not going to be missed.  ;)

I captured in Virtualdub using the huffyuv codec and I have gone back to square one with trimming the sides to create a full AVI.  After that, I haven't figured out what I'm going to use 

MeBeJedi said:

Jetrell Fo said:

When I get to the end of Side A, the last visible frame is the one I make my end cut at.  Beginning of Side B, the first visible scene I mark and then go all the way to the end of that side and again cut the last visible scene I see.

I'm recording 1 side at a time and then I go back and trim each one separately so I can put them all together at the end.

Is that confusing?  I think I lost myself......LMAO

It also depends on your source. The side breaks are different between the SW Def. Col. and the THX Faces set. They break at the same parts, but the audio carries on past the video on one of the sets (I don't recall which). This was especially apparent when Alderaan is destroyed.

The Special Edition seems to be no different in regards to this....it's like 1/2 a frame during the scene I described above when Luke leaves Dagobah in Empire. 

What is the best way to deal with this if you don't mind me asking?  Maybe there is someone here who knows the frame count for each side that might be able to shed some light on how far to go or not to go.

captainsolo said:

This is what I do. Try cutting them directly together with no black frames. Play it back to see if there are any audio or video jumps. Finally, check that single part against a VHS, DVD or any complete source of the movie if possible. You have to make sure there are no fades or missing frames. If not then you're good, if so then you have to take those missing pieces from the other source.

I'm finding that this post is worth it's weight.  What I thought was a strange audio transition in a test capture is actually missing frames that I cut thinking I had some semblance of understanding.

On Side 2 of Empire where Luke leaves Yoda & Ben to go to Bespin there is like a 12 frame fade before we see Luke leaving the atmosphere of Dagobah.  I noticed it because I turned on the "view audio" option in Virtualdub so I could time the trim and figured the audio wave form would help guide me through.  Turns out I was misunderstanding what I was seeing and it made my test capture "skip a beat" so to speak.....thank you. 

Of course, this now means I'm gonna have to scrap some of the work I've done.....good thing I did not delete the raw captured sides yet.....at least I got that part down....LMMFAO

Thanks Moth3r, I got it bookmarked and read.  Learning how write scripts specifically to what I might want to do will be fun I'm sure.  There are some good examples here so that helps.

:)

captainsolo said:

I used the 97 Silver VHS Box. Oddly enough I recently found my old LD cap of ANH done with a Pioneer V2200 and I checked the Mos Eisley scene.

It's not as saturated or pink. The same disc was used.

???

I wonder if it's the LD machine you used.  I did a quick test on my U.S. LD set and I can see the pink tint.  Maybe the "pressing" you have is a variation that saw limited release.  Here are a few caps from my U.S. set using my Pioneer DVL-90 captured with Virtualdub.  All I did was IVTC the test clip and take screen caps from there.

Orinoco_Womble said:

You might like to have a look at Arnie.d's V8 thread which had a very interesting discussion about averaging here

G-Force was pretty adamant that doing a median of multiple captures will give better results than averaging.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Orinoco...I have wandered in to that thread from time to time but as a noob I was miffed by some of the techie talk.  Right now I have 1 capture of each Japan S.E. set....I guess I'll need to decide which one I want to use for the 3rd source so I can move forward.

:) 

That looks damn near the VHS caps you got above.....

I'll have to check my U.S. set....maybe it looks the same....it would be nice to get a good, clean, straight transfer of the U.S. version....even if it's just for archival purposes.

:)

Here are a few screens from my Japan 2nd Pressing LD's....these are unfiltered AVI (Huffy) rips, no IVTC or other processing.....

When I watch the 1997 S.E. I always go back to what Dennis Muren says in the "Making Of" about the team not even knowing whether they were going to finish on time for the release with everything they were tasked to do. 

Maybe GL gave a "shortcut 101" class to get things moving.....LOL

So what formats are accepted/not accepted by Vegas?

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I've been using an avisynth script on my ESB 16mm telecine that has been working great... but your captures absolutely have to be frame for frame identical.  It's been tweaked a zillion times... I'll try to remember to post it here tomorrow.

Okay then, how do I ensure that my captures are "frame by frame" identical? 

Does anyone know if either Japan version of the S.E. are different in any way?

The only difference I have seen obviously is the picture quality....seems like 2 different transfers as the 1st pressing seems to have more DNR than the 2nd pressing....at least I believe that is what I'm seeing.

My other questions are naturally going to be....

Do I use notepad for the script and what do I save it as so AviSynth reads it properly?

Thanks 

Zion said:

TooT may or may not work, depending on how different the video is. It doesn't actually average the sources together, but rather compares all three sources and outputs the information that's consistent in at least two out of three sources. So like if there was a rot spot on one of the captures, it would take the information for that area from the two sources that don't have the rot spot. If all three sources differ, then I think it defaults to the first one.

The other avisynth filter you might try is Merge, which actually does average the two sources together.

 

Thanks for that too.  I've bookmarked it.  At this point, I've been learning to use Virtualdub for capture and trimming.  There is SO much to learn and everyone will always have a different view due to what type of hardware and software they had available to them due to their means and/or knowledge or both. 

I am SOOOOO not in the ball park that some are here when it comes to understanding and implementing all the different angles.  All I ever really wanted to do was to make a BETTER "5 Star" Collection but the contrast levels alone on the S.E. can be a nightmare.....it's almost as if Rick McCallum, Dennis Muren and team just redid everything with different Popsicle sticks to make the deadline for the 20th anniversary.

So far, I've captured each side of each movie for both sets in Virtualdub using the huffyuv codec.  I've also trimmed off the excess video so I have just the movies.  Now, I've got to figure out how to IVTC without compressing the AVI's I have and at least do a conversion to mpeg2 to see what I've got to work with or what I need to do after the IVTC, if I even need that.  It's crazy for a noob.......  

Zion said:

If they're all from the exact same LD release (i.e. they're all from Star Wars Definitive Collection LDs) then look up an avisynth filter called TooT (stands for Two out of Three). It will essentially take your 3 captures and combine them into one good one that's free of any rot spots or other imperfections not on the original LD. I'm sure there are other avisynth plugins out there as well.

If they're not from the same LD release, good luck and let me know if you come up with something.

Thanks Zion, appreciated.

Here is what I'm up to.....a learning experiment of sorts.

I have the Japan Silver Box 1997 S.E. and the Japan Second Pressing of the 1997 S.E..  The movie portions themselves don't have anything different video-wise except that the 2nd pressing seems to have a bit more detail than the 1st pressing so I figured if I could average out a cleaner archive it might be worth it to figure out how to try.

If it weren't for the Jap sub-titles I would use the U.S. S.E. set to round out the average since the video itself shouldn't be an issue.

I will let you know how I fair once I find this TooT and how to use AviSynth properly enough to make a go of it.

:)

What I am searching out is information regarding the averaging of let's say 3 separate LD captures for the cleanest possible picture. 

How is it done and what does one look for when doing such a project (i.e. software, process)?

Thanks

Sweet, I'm happy to know I've learned something from reading things here and from searching out my own answers.  It certainly helps.

:) 

Doctor M said:

I'm pretty sure Taiyo Yuden is still the best for single layers. (I think I heard somewhere TY manufactures SL's for Verbatim).

I've used the JVC DL's made in Japan...I believe Taiyo Yuden makes them, and I've never had issue with any of them.