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Jetrell Fo

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12-Aug-2004
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18-May-2017
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Post
#598542
Topic
Star Wars 1997 DTS CD-ROMs (Released)
Time

Okay....I want to get this posted for all of you who've downloaded the ISO's and now don't know what to do with them...Forum member CapableMetal has kindly sent me a tutorial to describe what he has done with these files for use. I'm going to post it here as a tied-you-over if you want to try somethings while we await the work borisanddoris and Eldonante are working on. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You need the in_APTX.dll plugin for Winamp and Winamp 2.91 (the later versions don't recognise the plugin so cannot work). You then need to configure the output in Winamp from the DirectSound module to the Disk Writer. You then need to load the AUD file you're copying for the reel into the playlist, select mono track mode and just press play (important: only once!).

I had the Disk Writer output the WAV file to the desktop of my old laptop (its running XP, so I used it to ensure i didn't get compatibility errors, but as long as Winamp 2.91 works in later versions of Windows it should all work perfectly) and renamed the file so I knew which part it was (anh_r1_fR.wav, for ANH Reel 1 Front Right, for example) and kept doing it until I had ripped all channels of all reels separately. Then I opened up Sound Forge 10 (although any WAV editor that can handle 5.1 should work; I use Sound Forge and Adobe Audition as I have actually had training as a performance sound engineer for live theatre) and dragged each channel into place.

This is where I realised that the channels output by the AptX plugin were all wrong, I noted the correct mapping for ANH and am guessing for the rest of the trilogy, as they're mastered by the same studio.

This is how I label the channels for the sake of quicker reference: Front Left (fL), Front Right (fR), Center (C), Surround Left (sL), Surround Right (sR) fL = fL fR = sL C = C sL = sR sR = fR The values left of = are what the AptX plugin thinks they are and the right is where the channels actually belong.

When you create a 5.1 file in Sound Forge they are listed in the order of 1=fL, 2=fR, 3=C, 4=LFE, 5=sL, 6=sR, so you just mix them together putting the correct WAV to the correct channel. At this point I copied and pasted the sL and sR into a new 2.0 WAV and performed a low pass filter cutting all frequencies above 80Hz, and performed a channel conversion down to mono.

Then I copied and pasted the mono file to channel 4 (LFE) in the 5.1 file. Next, save all your files to a format that supports 5.1 (WAV's can be saved as 5.1 but can be awkward for compatibility; I saved mine as Sony w64 files but FLAC or any lossless format supported by Audition CS6 would suffice), and open them into an Audition CS6 5.1 mix.

At this point you need a Sync source video saved to a compatible format, like a MOV or uncompressed; Audition seems to hate x264's AVC video and won't open MKV files, so I saved my capture with the Lagarith Lossless RGB codec to AVI, which are BIG files, but if you shrink your video to something like 640x288 it will play nicely and be smaller. Using the 2.0 audio from my laser disc, I slid each reel into place and matched the peaks at the END of each reel, as close to the end that I could find matching waveforms and zoomed in to align them as closely as possible.

I then had to rate-stretch them to the right length so they matched up at the start. I did this for all reels, cropping the end and beginning "beeps" from each one and rendered them under stretch properties as Rendered (High Quality), Polyphonic to preserve pitch.

After many hours of it 'Rendering', you will be able to mixdown to a 5.1, I choose FLAC. I must point out at this point that converting these files to any DTS format would likely be overkill. DTS-HD MA has a large size and will be hundreds of megs larger than a FLAC file. FLAC will happily encode to 16-bit, 44KHz, as the DTS discs seem to be, encoding to normal DTS will slightly compress them again, and encoding to DTS-HD will offer no performance gains. It would probably need to be upsampled to 24-bit, 48KHz (at least), which cannot serve to make it sound better but probably only worse.

I read the Wiki page for theater DTS, and it mentions the 24-bit timecode, which has nothing to do with the actual audio bit-rate (same way video uses the SMPTE time code, which is 80-bits, whereas the video is likely around 10-bits). I'm fairly convinced, due to the age of the discs, that 16-bit 44KHz is their format and it would be best to keep it that way.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

PLZ, read this carefully as it explains something I read & posted about briefly in regards to the Winamp plugin not mapping the channels properly. CapableMetal will be on vacation for a bit so he probably won't be doing any further work until mid October. He has said the he's done versions of ANH & ROTJ from the ISO's he downloaded. Folks are waiting for me to get TESB up....it will be up soon. I will shoot for end of the week. Cheers!!!! :) :)

Post
#598484
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

CapableMetal said:

Jetrell Fo said:

I have the ESB discs but my internet connection isn't solid at this point so uploading them would be hit and miss.  I am working on a solution so that it can be.  Would you share your 5.1 conversions of ANH & ROTJ with us?  I'm sure some folks here would love to have at least those to start with until borisanddoris and Eldonante are able to complete their processing of the audio for DTS-MA.

As for the channel mixing...there is a DTS whitepaper on the matter which could help you sort out things a bit if you feel your mix is missing a bit.

The channels are all left to the levels I ripped them at, its just knowing that frequency the DTS hardware in the theatres performed the low pass filter on. The DTS discs seem to be 16-bit, 44KHz, so converting them to DTS-MA might be overkill (upsampled sound will never sound better, only increase in file size and potentially sound worse; I'm kind of hoping I'm wrong about the actual bit depth and sample rate to feel free to correct me, but considering the rip speed I don't think any conversions were taking place!). I may have discovered a few glitches within a couple of the channels in reel 1 and will investigate further and I'll post any findings I have in the appropriate DTS thread :)

I sync'ed the DTS to my LD capture last night, took less than an hour to do! then it took 4 hours or so rendering the reels as I had to time stretch them by 0.1%, which is unsurprising seeing as they originally had a 24-bit time code to keep them in check! I have, at this point, only done ANH. I'm just about to listen back and see how it sounds ;)

It would be nice if we had a video standard to sync it to, perhaps a perfect LD capture would be best (I don't think mine is quite frame-perfect, I think it dropped a couple when capturing)?

As for uploading, I don't have regular Usenet access and am reluctant to use a MegaUpload-esque service because I just don't trust them. Perhaps a torrent would be best should enough people want to listen?

Capable,

Thanks for the response.  I would be happy to offer you an invite to the spleen if you'd like that as an option.

I should correct myself (I tried yesterday and the forum gave me trouble), the JP audio was DTSHD.  I am interested to hear the audio mix you've put together.  I'm sure others here would be just as interested in it.

 

Post
#598222
Topic
Info Wanted: Calling all Color Correctors: Can this source yield a different set of results to Gout?
Time

I am going to hazard a guess by saying what you're doing is similar to cap averaging except your going frame by frame and using opposite techniques to find a middle ground? 

The combined shot of Han above looks nice but it also loses the detail from the second shot while retaining the dark of the first shot.

Maybe with some tweaking and playing you'll come up with something that can retain the best qualities of both and not be blown out.

Cheers for your effort.

 

Post
#598178
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

CapableMetal said:

I have a question about your 5.1'd DTS experience....how did they compare to the U.S. LD 5.1?  Did you hear any difference with DTS as the source?

Hi Jetrell,

I haven't actually heard the 5.1 AC3 from the LaserDisc set as my CLD-2950 doesn't have an AC3 circuit and the only LaserDisc preservation I could find on Usenet was the Jedi/Feta, which only had the 2.0 track I have in my own captures. I have compared the mixing from the DTS to the mixing from the Blu-Ray DTS-HD track I used to make a 'modern' 5.1 mix for the OUT a while ago, and I have to say I prefer the 97 DTS mix levels, it seems more balanced, the clarity is excellent with that nice treble that makes it sound just like you're sat in the theatre, and the LFE channel was toned down (As the DTS theatre CD's are only 5 channel, I made from doing a low-pass on the surround channels; I read online thats how they produced the LFE in theaters), although that could just be due to the levels I applied to it when I processed it from the surround channels.

Either way, it is a far better mix and not as bass-heavy as seems to be the trend with modern mixes, clarity seems similar on my THX-certified 5.1 setup and it will certainly add much to any preservations made of the Special Editions, even if we can't get a perfect HD picture just yet! I just wish I had the images for the Empire discs so I could compare them to the 5.1 LD track in Adywan's Empire 97SE AVCHD edit!

I have the ESB discs but my internet connection isn't solid at this point so uploading them would be hit and miss.  I am working on a solution so that it can be.  Would you share your 5.1 conversions of ANH & ROTJ with us?  I'm sure some folks here would love to have at least those to start with until borisanddoris and Eldonante are able to complete their processing of the audio for DTS-MA.

As for the channel mixing...there is a DTS whitepaper on the matter which could help you sort out things a bit if you feel your mix is missing a bit.

Post
#598156
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

CapableMetal said:

Hey guys, I'm fairly new so feel free to tell me off if I rant too much or am posting in the wrong place. :)

I've just started working on an HD special edition project for my projector, in the same vein as Harmy's outstanding work with his Despecialized Editions (which provided the inspiration for a personal 1080p OUT I made for watching with my girlfriend earlier this year, so I am experienced with this sort of work).

I've also had a play with the ANH and ROTJ DTS sound tracks which I've downloaded from usenet and 5.1'd up for a test listen, and they sound great, I must say!

Are there any of the sources previously mentioned available anywhere? I've got the Reivax and Flunk-Reivax hybrid, and I own and have captured the NTSC and PAL laserdisc sets at a reasonable quality; I figure a properly IVTC'ed capture of the NTSC laserdiscs with no dropped frames is probably the best standard to use as a sync source, what do guys you think?

-CM

Welcome to the forums Capable.  I hope you enjoy your time here.

I have a question about your 5.1'd DTS experience....how did they compare to the U.S. LD 5.1?  Did you hear any difference with DTS as the source?

Cheers

Post
#597903
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

Brooks said:

none said:

Is there any chance of de-coding the DTS Time Code (the dot/dash Morse code-like patterns next to the sound track wave forms) in the pics Brooks provided?  So one of those frames can be matched up to the DTS CD-ROM.

Mentioned in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_%28sound_system%29

Related but not an answer: datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/DDE_606_ADS7.pdf

I should point out that I got these strips on ebay and I don't know for certain if they're from the film itself or from a trailer.  Are all of these shots in one of the trailers?

If the dts time code in these frames is useful I could post the full five frames of each shot

I'm just guessing but I'd say that they probably are from one of the trailers...probably cut up, like mine, to extend the profitability in place of selling a full trailer outright.  I will get my box packed up for you so I can get it sent out and maybe we can figure this out.  On a side note, I believe that the DTS soundtrack discs contain audio for the SE trailers......I could be wrong too.

Post
#597843
Topic
Info: Original 35mm Theatrical Versions of SE Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy 1997-2005
Time

Brooks said:

Jetrell Fo said:

I use photobucket.

@ Brooks.....

Maybe I should send you my film strips for scanning....I'm not sure I'll be able to do anything with them any time soon.

How accurate is the scanning software when it comes to the film?

I'm not an expert or anything but it seems to me to be very accurate.  I use silverfast which came with the epson, pretty sophisticated software. I import directly into photoshop.  If you want I'd be happy to scan your film and then send it back to you along with the scans.  I enjoy doing that sort of thing.  I'll pm you :)

I have a TPM trailer that is intact....maybe I should send that one to your for scanning as well.....LOL

Post
#597785
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

Brooks said:

bilditup1 said:

(I do wonder, though, how hard it would be to find the theatrical 97 SE prints)

I'm certain that there are some out there.  It wasn't that long ago.  I have some strips of the 35mm SE Jedi, about 5 frames per strip.  Here are some scans of some of the frames that might be useful to someone as a reference.  These are  using Silverfast's auto settings, I can post the full raw scans of the entire strips with no correction at all also if anybody wants to see them or thinks they may be useful as a color reference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love these scans....shows some really rich colors.  How did you scan these?  I have a scanner but I don't have an adapter tray to use with it.

@msycamore....your point was well taken.  I just wanted to re-enforce the importance of ALL projects here and that this one (although the movies may not be liked by some) is just as much a part of what we know as the rest.  It's all good.  :)  :)

Post
#597692
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

msycamore said:

Planned to upload my source file and m2v file to usenet today, but it will unfortunately have to wait, had a power loss when I was about to prepare the files over night. I've since seen there has been one thread started for this purpose, and I wondered, is my work actually needed now? I can still upload it of course if there is desire for it, I just want to know if it's really worth my effort?

I didn't know that thread was coming.  I can't speak for anyone else but I KNOW I don't have the disposable income to start purchasing 35mm films, even at the prices I've seen.  That is why I thought this thread would be a good start.  Work from what we have so far so we can learn and adapt while planning for better sources.

It's about learning, not competing.  At some point these 2 ideas will converge.  I've posted links related to this topic as I've had a small part in helping to get the DTS audio out there.  Borisanddoris and Eldonante are the progenitors of this journey, they deserve the bulk of the credit.  Silverwook and none have helped to distribute audio needed so that everyone can have it, they deserve credit too.

I am interested in your work.  At this point myspleen will be the easiest access for me.  The decision is yours.  I thank you for even wanting to contribute what you have....every little bit helps.....for ALL of us.

:)

 

Post
#597585
Topic
Star Wars 1997 DTS CD-ROMs (Released)
Time

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Jetrell Fo said:

I have not received any word yet on how far along ANH & ROTJ are in the audio processing chain or when they'll be available.  I've sent out pm's but haven't gotten any word as of yet.

Haven't had time to comment on this thread in awhile, but I'm glad that the audio discs are in good hands. Hopefully, once preserved they could be synced to something like msycamore's NTSC DVDs, which he mentioned in this thread. That would be a fantastic '97 preservation.

We are currently looking at an array of options for these.  msycamore has come to the other thread with possibilities.  I am excited at all that might be accomplished once these are fully available.

:)

Post
#597517
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

The only sound way to deal with the Laserdisc as a source is to do complete lossless video transfers and go from there.  The issue then becomes the size of the files.  At that point we'd probably need a HD dedicated for the storage so whomever would do the editing and conversion could do it straight from that HD.

Of course, there would HAVE to be a back up of the files....just in case.

Weren't the original capture files for the HD broadcast fairly large too? 

Post
#597432
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

negative1 said:

Jetrell Fo said:

negative1 said:

obviously somewhere down the line

the 35mm prints need to be tracked down..

 

they shouldn't be that expensive, and

they'll be in pretty good shape.

 

however, that's a whole different can

of worms, right? hmmmmmmm..........

 

 

later

-1

This WOULD be the most optimal solution and one I'd love to see come to fruition.  I'd actually be pleased if we could get at least 1 35mm copy of the PT as well....for posterity and historical reference.  I put out some feelers on the 35MM forum in hopes of gaining some info about the SE 35mm.

Wouldn't it be cool if we had our own film vault here?  :)  :)

yeah,

getting the PT on 35mm is also something

i wouldn't mind seeing/getting... who knows?????

again, they are pretty cheap to get also.. and

in good condition.

 

later

-1

If we could somehow obtain stuff like this the DTS discs would sync properly and we'd have at least pre-DVD versions of these movies without any changes before moving to the consumer market.  

This was posted over @ the 35mm forum:

Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace 1999 $450. SOLD
Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones 2002 $550. SOLD
Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith 2005 $600. Still Avail.

Whether these prices are normal or not, I would not know.  All I have in the way of film is a 35mm Scope Trailer for TPM.  I have a 35mm set for the SE Trilogy trailer but it was cut and sold in like 5 frames per strip.  I bought the whole lot but I have no way of scanning them to post as reference.

Post
#597425
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

negative1 said:

obviously somewhere down the line

the 35mm prints need to be tracked down..

 

they shouldn't be that expensive, and

they'll be in pretty good shape.

 

however, that's a whole different can

of worms, right? hmmmmmmm..........

 

 

later

-1

This WOULD be the most optimal solution and one I'd love to see come to fruition.  I'd actually be pleased if we could get at least 1 35mm copy of the PT as well....for posterity and historical reference.  I put out some feelers on the 35MM forum in hopes of gaining some info about the SE 35mm.

Wouldn't it be cool if we had our own film vault here?  :)  :)

Post
#597338
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

Molly said:

I got unopened FS SE97 tapes, but I'd rather keep 'em that way...

...might consider doing such a project while I wait for the OOT 35s to leach out (but would prolly do better to wait for decoded DTS?)

Molly, keep those things sealed.  If needed, I do have an open FS set of the VHS S.E..  I am actually just finishing up recording my WS S.E. VHS tapes...the 1997 and the 2000 ones.  Just for posterity mostly. 

I'd have to go with the LD's for a project like this....if we needed video files.

Post
#597312
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

bilditup1 said:

The absurd LD audio archive has caps of the 5.1 Dolby tracks from the US LDs as well as 'Digital Stereo'. I don't know if that's PCM or DD from just the description.

(Incidentally that is in need of reseeding at the usual place...)

That archive was a monumental undertaking and a fine project for people doing projects.  To have ALL those audio options available in one place on an HD would really make things smoother for those looking to use multiple options on a release.

It is most awesome!!!

:)

Post
#597299
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

I have a "raw" (IVTC'd mpeg2) capture of the Japan S.E. LD's, second pressing Black Box...the ones that changed the artwork for the S.E. (same artwork as the VCD's).

Each side of the LD for each movie was burnt separately to a single layer DVD.  Getting rid of the burnt in subs (as they are in the black borders) would be easy for our video masters here.  We would need the in-movie subs (Greedo & Jabba) stuff.

I have copies of the DTS CD-roms of the theatrical audio for the S.E..  At this point, the progress has been slow due to busy schedules and normal lives.

The 5.1 ac3 files for the S.E. are on my HD as well.   

(I had to edit and describe the "raw" comment I made).  (If it was raw AVI they would NOT fit so well on DVD5's.  Sorry for the confusion).

Post
#597290
Topic
The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *)
Time

Okay,

Here is the thread for discussing this topic.  Preserving the S.E. is just as important as preserving the OT when it comes to it’s historical place in the universe far, far away.

Please do not post in the DTS threads anymore as those are for the theatrical audio aspects of the S.E.

Cheers and let’s have some fun…and get something done.

😃

Project Sources List



Formats:

NTSC/PAL



Video Options Available for use:

French Coffret Set [Lee Thoroughgood set]

U.S. Black Box LD Set

Japan 1st and or 2nd LD Box Set

TB

G’Kar

Flunk

Reivax



Audio Options Available for use:

DTS Theatrical CD’s for ANH [1350], TESB [1427], & ROTJ [1451] [These are being worked on]

5.1 AC3 U.S. S.E. Laserdisc Audio [Courtesy of Generous Forum Members]

Dolby Stereo 2.0


Frame Count for Each Movie (in progress)(thanks to msycamore, Darth Mallwalker, CapableMetal, & You_Too)

ANH (originally posted by Darth Mallwalker):

0 = first frame

711 = STAR WARS title card appear

28343 = reel 2

59025 = reel 3

90295 = reel 4

117270 = reel 5

147672 = reel 6

ESB (originally posted by msycamore):

0 = first frame

711 = STAR WARS title card appear

30988 = reel 2

59815 = reel 3

91134 = reel 4

122461 = reel 5

151133 = reel 6

ROTJ (originally posted by msycamore):

 

0 = first frame

712 = STAR WARS title card appear

25055 = reel 2

54317 = reel 3

84511 = reel 4

112587 = reel 5

142918 = reel 6

172032 = reel 7


Links to related threads:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1997-DTS-CD-ROMs/topic/14241/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/LeeThorogoods-PAL-LaserDisc-Preservation-Project-97-SE-Finished-95-THX-Finished-97-SE-Uploaded-95-THX-Uploaded-to-the-newsgroup/topic/11824/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/1997-Special-Edition-Preservations/topic/14033/

http://forum.digital-digest.com/f4/creating-dts-5-1-surround-sound-stereo-source-30148.html

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Original-35mm-Theatrical-Versions-of-SE-Trilogy-and-Prequel-Trilogy-1997-2005/topic/14654/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Are-the-1997-Special-Edition-releases-preserved/topic/13262/



These are unedited times for the reels on the DTS Cinema Discs for the 1997 Special Edition.

ANH (DTS Cinema)

R1T5 - 19:52
R2T5 - 21:29
R3T5 - 21:52
R4T5 - 16:55
R5T5 - 21:17
R6T5 - 22:14

TESB (DTS Cinema)

R1T5 - 21:41
R2T5 - 20:14
R3T5 - 21:58
R4T5 - 21:57
R5T5 - 20:07
R6T5 - 22:17

ROTJ (DTS Cinema)

R1T5 - 17:33
R2T5 - 20:30
R3T5 - 21:08
R4T5 - 19:40
R5T5 - 21:15
R6T5 - 20:22
R7T5 - 15:31

Post
#597283
Topic
Star Wars 1997 DTS CD-ROMs (Released)
Time

This thread is starting to stray....we need to make a new one for this so it doesn't get lost.

Please use this link http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-1997-Star-Wars-Special-Edition-Trilogy-Preservation-Standards-Thread-Work-In-Progress/topic/14647/

Back on topic.....

I have not received any word yet on how far along ANH & ROTJ are in the audio processing chain or when they'll be available.  I've sent out pm's but haven't gotten any word as of yet.

I know boris and El have busy schedules and I did offer my assistance but at this point things are still quiet.  Hopefully one of them will drop in when they have time to let us know how things are going.

Cheers!!!!