This user has been banned.
Not in the best interest and unethical means are two separate things.
I stand by the language in my original post.
Well then, the future of things lay in your hands and it’s a big gamble to take… for the sake of the community, I, for one, hope your right.
So their unethical status was based on a perspective Jay, and not real evidence?
I’m guessing you did well in high school debate class.
No fair, I used that line on him first. I want a mention in the thread credits.
Lol @ Frink. Now. not that it matters. but I did fairly well in math and ethics too. I know two wrongs don’t make a right.
To suddenly call it quits on the project for no clear reason seems absolutely nuts to me. It would’ve absolutely been one of the most important and valuable preservations of all time.
You’ll need to take that up with TN1. I only banned their account; I don’t run the team.
So their unethical status was based on a perspective Jay, and not real evidence?
I’m guessing you did well in high school debate class.
Every law on the books today is based on someone’s perspective. From our perspective and the perspective of members we trust most, we believe TN1’s actions were not in the best interest of the community. They’re free to weigh in with their perspectives, as I said.
If that doesn’t meet your personal standard, you’re free to resume the forum vacation you never actually went on.
Not in the best interest and unethical means are two separate things. You also gave me some comment about trust but now you say trust is at stake here. More confusion. Also though I appreciate your concern over my temp forum vacation, as nicely as it was stated, I did not get the impression that you were being nice, just diplomatic.
So their unethical status was based on a perspective Jay, and not real evidence?
I apologized to you publicly. Please leave me out of your responses in regards to that matter.
True, and I apologize for bringing it up again. It’s easy to slip into old habits. 😉
I understand and I thank you
There are plenty of other people who agree with me, and some have said so publicly. But more importantly, Jay made the rules, so maybe you should bitch at him instead of me.
Agreeing and bitching about it everywhere are two different things. I did not say that I don’t agree with others or the rules. I was questioning your questions “why this” and “why that” and the reason behind your continuos complaining even after they got banned.
I’m not sure what continuous complaining I have supposedly done, but I responded to the post that asked why the team account was a problem. Jay obviously agrees, so what’s your problem?
I just think it’s weird that the person who hated them the most is most vocal in this thread about them that does not concern that person in the least. You got what you wanted, you should be happy.
Other than you and Fo attacking me for some reason, I’m just fine. Hell, I suggested that N1’s individual account be reactivated so he could defend himself if he so wished. But feel free to keep ignoring anything I say that doesn’t fit your narrative. I’m sure everyone else is really enjoying this pointless back-and-forth that has nothing to do with this thread.
And I’m certainly calmer than you, Lebowski.
I apologized to you publicly. Please leave me out of your responses in regards to that matter. On a side note … Jay, is the evidence of the accusers going to be presented openly as williarob has done or is that evidence in some off limits state at this point?
Jetrell Fo said:
Thank you for bringing more to light than was known so that folks had a better idea of where things actually were. You were brave in doing so.Remember that scene in Saving Private Ryan where Tom Hanks whispers “Earn this” to Matt Damon? I think you and Frink got each other so riled up that you just shared one of those moments with eachother, digitally. And it made me wicked uncomfortable. If this thread ends with Jay reassuring Frink that he’s a good man over -1’s grave we’re all automatically inducted into the drama queen hall of fame.
I totally understand. Sorry for freeking you out. My apology to Frink is sincere and genuine. The unfortunate thing here is that even if other team members come to speak it will not matter that they can prove their position…the damage has already been done and I fear there will be no apology. It is my opinion that whomever gave their side of their story first holds more sway and will be allowed to keep it. Trust is going to be the issue going forward as a community. I totally hope I’m wrong but it’s not looking good right now.
I think the ban on the team account should remain, because that user clearly broke a lot of rules despite multiple warnings.
If I were being fair, I’d point out that the team account did not get banned due to the rule-breaking, and once the “three strikes” ultimatum was handed down by Jay, only had received one strike so far. So it’s maybe a little unfair to ban the team now based on the rules.
With that said, I’ve long held the position that the team account was completely unnecessary and bad optics, so of course I have no problem with the account remaining banned.
And with that said, I would have no problem with N1’s account being reinstated, at least until all of this was sorted out (if it ever is). Unless Jay is privy to additional information we aren’t, of course. As others have said, I would hate to get banned just because Fo accused me of something I didn’t do. There certainly does seem to be enough contradiction and confusion to allow for reasonable doubt.
But I don’t know, maybe Jay is just sick of everything N1.
Only YOU have said THIS …
As others have said, I would hate to get banned just because Fo accused me of something I didn’t do.
But anyways, I have to come to learn and enjoy your wit and outlook on things here. I respect you. However, I do feel that your postings can cloud the issue further when you get wishy washy. It is no secret that in your own way you do test the waters around here and you are pretty much left to your own space. You are a more senior member around here and I’m betting newer members including myself feel that your posts are based on experience and fact but that is not always the case. I know you have no love for N1, you’ve made that very clear, but how many times does it need to be said?
I think N1 should be allowed to have his account back.
I believe TN1 should be allowed to post for now to make their case before a final ban on the account.
I agree that Team AND Sock accounts have no good use in this community for obvious reasons.
I believe that TN1 has been unfairly judged, hung, and slapped around and that it is possible it was done with negative intention.
I also believe that this was handled poorly from the get go.
I apologize to you Frink, for getting a bit harsh, I just wish that sometimes you’d be a bit more open-minded off the cuff instead of waiting until after we’ve had a run-in like this to be a bit more reasonable and senior-member like as you were above.
I have supported TN1 during this and I will continue to do so until it is shown they acted as labeled. I support both projects and will continue to do so fully.
Again Frink, I am sorry. I think all of us, myself included, have had a rough go with this situation. You and I are passionate people who are not always so on the same side. I appreciate this and I hope we can continue our basic camaraderie here.
To Williarob,
Thank you for bringing more to light than was known so that folks had a better idea of where things actually were. You were brave in doing so. I hope it pays off as it should.
[TV’s Frink said:]
You’ve got to be kidding.
So now there is disagreement, and of course I’m questioning it. When everyone is in agreement, there’s
nothing to question. Now that the agreement has (temporarily?) evaporated, you bet I’m questioning it.
If I use your own logic Frink, I should believe that TN1 is still guilty because there isn’t complete consensus. Since there is no complete consensus that N1 is indeed TN1, I should now believe that it is him?
It can’t be both ways, can it?
Aside from “posting” style is there any real definitive proof that N1 was using the team account to post with? Considering all the e-mail contact that seems to have been done with them couldn’t some one copy and paste different sections from different team members, add some things from N1, and then post it using the Tn1 account? IP addresses cannot tell the difference between different people posting from the same account. It’s just an address.
TN1 doesn’t need access to this site in order to continue their project
No-one working on projects needs access to this site to do so, so your point is what? Moot if you ask me.
Anywho, no matter where this all goes or doesn’t (as I am inclined to believe things will be left as is), I support both projects fully due to their value to the community and to film history.
😃
Now you’re just being Mean Frink, LOL. That’s fine. I understand.
These are your words …
I notified the moderators, but naturally I resumed mocking N1 until he decided to stop. In my opinion, if #1 wasn’t followed, there was no longer a reason to follow #2.
I never even received one of the three warnings I was allowed, as I immediately stopped when asked.
You followed the rules but kept mocking them because why? You hadn’t received a warning and figured it was okay with Jay that you chide them til they get themselves banned? You’ve been given latitude before so it still must be okay now? Why didn’t you get the same warning and why didn’t you follow the rules all the way through after reporting them?
I know your distaste for the “team accounts” was the same as your love for the “sock account”, very passionate. I also am okay with you having a revolving opinion on the matter.
In the end, you have a knack for posting off-topic stuff in other threads including project threads. It’s all over the board if one looks. You have never been banned for it nor have you stopped when others have asked you to politely so it stands to reason that you may have more latitude than most here. That is why I feel your ban-happy comments aren’t very productive to anything since you’ve been in their shoes but saved from the same fate you seem so happy they got.
I’m just saying, that’s all.
My point was, you were treated better than TN1, even though you broke the same rules. And you had to be asked to stop, you didn’t just stop because there was a rule against it.
I don’t have any quarrel with you but it is no secret that you are given quite a bit of latitude here where others are not so I guess what I’m saying is you don’t have a lot of room to support their banning if you don’t support your own for equal behavior.
Again, I’m glad we get along and I’m not trying to start anything, this is my opinion on the contradiction.
he contacted me, we chatted like grown-ups and we sorted it out, and got on with working.
That’s not how the Internet is supposed to work.
😄
Which is part of the reason I am going off forums for a while.
Same reason I’m (supposed to be) on a temporary vacation from here.
😃
I hope someone will be able to pick up the torch, and do (as they said they intended) with the 97s as was done with the OTVs - I think there’s opportunity with HD scans of the 97s alongside the OTVs and the 2004 HDTV rips, with the BDs.
I do believe at one point there “was” some brief discussion that the 97 SE’s would be tackled at some point I just can’t find the post to pinpoint the exact wording. It should be on a to-do list considering the poor home video treatment I agree it got. And, we have cinema DTS for the SE’s which would really be a great way, to preserve this Anniversary release in top form.
😃
I’m just going to leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVZul_oCWTE
Freekin hilarious … thanks for the giggle Lee.
And as for your statement. I agree that the course of action you suggested for clarity should be taken.
😃
Regardless of the gravity of this individual situation, I think it was the straw that broke the camel’s back for N1. Absurd posts were being made constantly by the team account (and some clearly by negative 1 himself) with no regard for the forum rules. He also constantly ignored his many warnings for posting outside of TN1 threads. That alone (in my opinion of course) was enough for a ban just given how he had no respect for the rules or leeway TN1 was given.
No argument from me here. And if that the mods would like to make that the reason for the ban, I’ll go to bed happy. But I’m still seeking an apology for the accusation that we behaved unethically. Because that is Not true.
This should not be an issue either after this went on …
…
Oops! I meant…
Jay did put a stop to it but Frink did not get banned.
Sorry Frink, I had a hard time defending their ban over posts when I remembered your antics going on after the rule was made for said chiding.
And btw Frink, did you applaud Willarobs transparency earlier in this thread but now you’re questioning it? I know you love contradictions but I’m not sure this was a good one to establish considering the possible implications of this issue.
Just saying bud, not trying come off mean.
😃
I was talking about the idea that the facts have been presented, which is clearly not the case.
But didn’t Willarob just say that he presented the facts to jay to prove they did indeed have permission?
He did.
“It has come to our attention that some of the recent screen shots posted by Team Negative1 are from a scan of a print that has been obtained by unethical means without the owner’s knowledge or consent.”
Thanks to another former member of Team Negative One I have been able to examine the original emails, including those from “person #2”, and they prove beyond any doubt that Mike Verta did NOT pay for the Technicolor scan we received (though he did pay another scan which we don’t have). They also prove that we were given permission to use the scan in anyway we saw fit by the person who actually did pay for it. Now I’m not going to paste the content here because I believe that the one thing both Mike and -1 would actually agree on is that these kind collectors who very generously agreed to share their priceless prints with us, are not to blame for any of this and certainly don’t deserve to be identified in any way or dragged into this any further than they already have.
In fact -1 told me repeatedly to leave things alone, he’d rather take all the blame than have it shifted to them, so please, let’s leave them out of this. I’m only bringing this up now because yesterday Jetrell Fo made a valiant defense of the Team (in the 35mm thread) but in doing so focused attention on the collectors, which is actually worse than leaving us with all the blame.
But, the fact is, I don’t think anyone should be blamed for what, in the end, can only be put down to a lack of communication between all the parties involved.
Secondly, I don’t think it is fair to label -1 as wanting to be “the guy who wanted to save Star Wars” or seeking “fame”. First of all, all the interviews are by a “Mr. Black” - not even “-1” and all this trouble with the Team Account was BECAUSE OF HIS WISH TO BE ANONYMOUS! It’s pretty hard to seek fame and anonymity at the same time! The only reason we agreed to any interviews at all was to make sure the details were reported as accurately as possible, if they were to be reported at all. Nobody wanted the media circus that followed. And I don’t see anybody accusing Harmy of wanting to be the guy who saved Star Wars or seeking Fame and fortune based on his projects and he’s been in the spot light a lot longer than we have.
Thirdly, in spite of the knowledge that we had done no wrong we still agreed to shut down the project “for the greater good”.
So, regardless of whether or not you “like” -1 or Team Negative One (Frink), knowing all this, is it fair to continue this thread any further? Or should there in fact be a public apology for what in the end turned out to be false, untrue, incorrect and unfounded allegations of misconduct that were just thrown out there along with an immediate ban which prevented the accused of uttering even a single word in his own defense?
Do you still think the print was obtained unethically? The fact that Mike didn’t give his consent is irrelevant - he neither paid for the scan, nor owned the print. Consider this, the owner of the scan, that is the person who actually paid a huge amount of money to have it scanned, took the time to copy 21 TB of data onto 7 3TB hard drives, boxed them all up and mailed them to the team so they could use them. It’s hard to picture that happening without his knowledge or consent.
I rest my case.
I questioned every aspect of what was said and in type and had already come to your conclusion but I knew if it came from me I would be chastised. I was even quietly sniped once in this thread for trying to get down to the relevant info. My post in the 35mm thread was a move to find someone to finally lay to rest this issue with what I knew in my heart was the truth. I was going to disable my account here today until I read this post. Thank you williarob for being open and transparent. Thank you to the silent member who offered to help back up and let the facts be presented for all to see. Thanks to neg1 for being willing to take the heat to help save star wars properly.
I did not ask for or say legal names should be revealed. Tn1 has taken the public brunt of it. Person#2 could be a chair for all I know. Bottom line … Tn1 did not steal a print they apparently just didn’t tell Mike they received a copy of the scan which they have decided to stop work on so as not to interfere with Mike’s pitch. Sounds to me like person#2 misdirected contact and conversation to obtain a specific agenda … Sounds like tn1 became the Ollie North of this debacle. Just my opinion anyways. Told you all folks probably wouldn’t like my thoughts on this. I am hoping for the best outcome for all of us in this.
Excuse me if I’m missing something, but since no one who “owns” a print of Star Wars actually legally “owns” it (since they all belong to Fox/Disney), why exactly is the person who loaned the Technicolor scan upset? I can understand if he or she is worroed because a scan of that print could be traced back and thus face legal repercussions from Fox/Disney. But if it’s something other than that…well, frankly: what right does that person have to keep such a thing to him or herself when none of what we’re talking about here is strictly “legal”?
As far as I understand (from what I’ve read on the forum), someone paid (I assume quite a fair amount of money, since scanning prints isn’t cheap) to have that print scanned. And then someone else gave those scans away, without that person’s (the guy who had it scanned) permission.
That’s not proper conduct. legal or not.
So why isn’t the person who passed it on not the one being blamed and outted? Is it because that person is in a more important position than tn1 and outing them would cause more harm to Mike’s current progress than outing an unknown team of people? I’m still confused.
Usenet folks, that is where you need to look.
😃
As I mentioned in the Legacy thread, my initial stance on this was in defense of the team. Like most of you, I have never actually met any of Team Negative One in person, but unlike most of you I have spoken at length with them on the phone and back and forth in hundreds of emails. They are all really nice people and we get along well and I will stay in touch with most of them. But the Team really is no more.
My personal goal has always been to create the best possible version of the Original Star Wars, and while the Silver Screen Edition is not that, I do believe that it is a very good way to experience the original Theatrical version. Star Wars in 1977/8 was not the shiny, grain free, HD experience you get when watching Harmy’s Despecialized Editions (which I actually think are fantastic, they bring Star Wars to a new level, and from what I have seen of it, Legacy Edition is even better).
In his thread, Mike Verta says we should leave restoration to the professionals, but let’s remember that it was “professionals” that gave us the 2004 DVDs and the 2011 Blu-rays. While I’m more than happy to leave Star Wars in Mike Verta’s hands, I still don’t trust those other “professionals”.
I’m hopeful that the media circus “Mr. Black” stirred up will help Mike’s pitch to Disney, and that ultimately something truly great will finally happen - not just an official release, but an official release of Legacy.
Where does that leave this project? Well, I am waiting on some (color correction) project files from another former member, and on Poita’s scan of the LPP. When they arrive I will complete the project by re-inserting the missing frames and making it Gout sync’d so that it will work with project threepio for subtitles and you can pick whichever audio stream(s) you prefer in order to mux them. I will do my best to sync the Original Spanish Theatrical Audio, and then upload a new 1080p MKV and author a blu-ray version and upload that too.
No time frame on any of this, but I’d like to get it done as soon as possible so that we can close this thread and move on. It’s left me with a bad taste in my mouth, which is a shame because I am quite proud of the project.
Williarob,
I realize I am on temporary vacation from here but I read this post and wanted to respond.
There is no reason for you to endure shame for something you’re proud of. Since your own work on this is not in question you have the positive support of your peers, myself included. I will not comment on the current debacle as my feelings and opinions may not necessarily be shared by others and because it needs to be about the preservation of the Original Star Wars Trilogy. It is my sincere hope that at least this sentiment is shared by all over all else.
Be well.
Shawn
I will be taking a much needed break from the forum starting today. I will still answer pm’s if I get any but that will be all for now. I am not disabling my account nor am I being asked or pressured by anyone to leave. I simply have a philosophical-sized headache concerning all things Star Wars at the moment and I need time to quell the discomfort it has brought me.
For those who know me in other places, you will still see me there. My participation may quiet some but I will still make myself available if needed.
Keep a light on and keep supporting all the fan-based efforts to bring back the Original Star Wars Trilogy. Without any of them, none of us would be here sharing our love and passion for it.
Peace and hope to all of you.
Sincerely,
Shawn
