Jar Jar Bricks

But the distinction I’m so desperately trying to make is that while they’re one in the same, that’s only because of the purpose and intention poured into their very being. Genetically, they would be completely unrelated. It’s all of that malice and cruelty which was influencing the Force to create this life that makes them so similar. In both cases, you could think of Rey’s father and Anakin’s father as the Force itself, but twisted to Palpatine’s desire. This process would then be perfected with Rey, and as a result Palpatine views her as his own daughter. They are all related in terms of their nature/disposition but not genetically (so Reylo is still at thing). It’s hard to convey these complex topics in words, though. I’m starting to see why George would potentially hold off on a reveal like this to make it more clear what exactly is going on microscopically.

One benefit of making this abundantly clear is that we shift away from everyone being related to each other genetically. With default TROS, there’s only two bloodlines - Palpatine and Skywalker. With this new idea, it would be Palpatine, Skywalker, and whatever name Rey’s parents claimed. Of course, Kylo never reveals this to her, which is what leads her to claim Skywalker because she is related to them in spirit.

We’re probably gonna have to bite the bullet here and just figure out a way to get a version of the dyad-duel scene and the hangar scene without Kylo’s dialogue present in the locations we want. Then we’d be free to diverge from there, although I’m sure applying the proper echo effects to his voice would be a hard thing to do, for me at least. Speaking of which, are we even sure this is something that’s possible to do? I’m pretty sure Kylo’s voice is present in most of the channels at least in the hangar scene due to the echos. And his loud-ass footsteps need to be in place.

As cool as this idea is, it may be more wise to focus our efforts on making v5 of Ascendant as good as possible first. I’ve already got the Leia knew about Rey’s darkness handled, which was my biggest problem originally. I haven’t started testing Zorri’s new lines for a Kijimi rebellion. And I think it would be an interesting experiment to place the Leia/Rose + Snap scene after the heroes have escaped the cave. I could also start ripping Kylo’s voice from their dyad-duel and hangar scene for a superior voice clone to improve the lines already in Ascendant. The lines currently there are based on LEGO TFA Kylo Ren.

Rey needs to be referred to as a Palpatine or the whole point of my original idea was for nothing. And of course, in order to do that he has to state she is his heir.

I’m also unsure about Kylo knowing about Palpatine’s desire to possess one of them at this point in the movie. Especially if we were to remove the “Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you” stuff and put it back where it belongs. This moment would then just be more about who Palpatine will see as his rightful heir when they fight. Then the dark twist that he just wanted to possess the “winner” would come later.

As a result I’d say what I have for my original last two paragraphs is what I’d prefer. It’s also not very clear now that the place her parents are looking for is on Jakku, I was under the impression we were trying to explain Lor San Tekka’s village? Also, Rey’s reaction of “Don’t” makes less sense to the generally inoffensive statement you have there.

Yeah I found the original post I just don’t normally go on r/fanedits funnily enough.

Where are you guys getting this unlisted video from? Lol. Clearly the two of you got it from the same source.

To also shift Palpatine out of the role of a father (which could lead to some of this misinterpretation in the first place) the following would need to be changed:

“You were right… your parents were no one. But no father was involved in your creation.”

I think it’s necessary only to convey that it was the same type of love that was meant to save Padme that saved Rey. Finishing what his grandfather started and all that.

I think I’ve cracked the potential misinterpretation of incest happening with their kiss with the following dialog:

"Because he influenced the Force to create two dark bloodlines. My grandfather’s, and then perfected with you. You’re his heir, Rey. You… are a Palpatine.”

“The Emperor told me to kill you so that the strongest of us takes the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond not of shared blood, but power. We can end him and the Sith, and bring a new order to the galaxy, together…”

EDIT: Oh, and this from the beginning - "I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. I share the darkness that lives in you, Rey…”

That’s true. Palpatine is the source of this information, and Kylo is incentivized to believe it without question. As for the scenes on Ahch-To, those are about Rey’s lineage anyhow, and her being claimed as a Palpatine by name. There isn’t such a place to shoot down this news as it pertains to the Skywalkers. Leia would only fear the darkness that she associates with Vader in the flashback anyway, so it wouldn’t be a direct confirmation.

That being said though, have you seen the sly look Palpatine gives Anakin as he says “influence the midichlorians to create life?” It’s pretty wild. And what the opera show they’re watching looks like is a literal egg being surrounded by sperm cells.

Lol but that phrase was only used to justify a controversial (at the time) twist and keep it as fact.

The mainline Skywalker movies have always been able to change current canon, if that is what they wish. They aren’t necessarily beholden to anything.

I’m sorry, but I personally believe the final installment of a 9 movie Saga is not the time to be wishy-washy on things, no matter what. It needs to be firm in its convictions, revealing something that would make the rest of the saga be viewed differently. Some of my favorite movies have a twist in them that make you see what happened before in a new light. The fact that this twist would affect 8 movies-worth of content is pretty incredible.

Yes, this story idea isn’t for everybody. I seriously doubt George’s vision for the sequels would have been, either. People online say they would have preferred what I mentioned earlier about George’s sequels, but that’s only because it’s different. But at this point I’m pretty stuck with this idea. Hopefully it can be seen to fruition someday.

Another random thought. George intended for Leia to be revealed as the real chosen one in Episode IX. This could still line up with the prophecy, since when Leia was born Anakin Skywalker was dead thus “born to no father”. However, with Rey finishing Leia’s Jedi path in TROS and finally defeating Palpy, they both technically become part of the chosen one prophecy.

And the fact that George intended to dive headfirst into the microbiology side of the Force in his sequels screams to me that he intended to show how the midichlorians can be influenced to create life. He probably planned this dark Skywalker twist for episode VIII. I think this is why he planted those seeds in ROTS, because he fully intended on confirming it in a way that wasn’t just dialogue but rather visuals. But obviously that couldn’t fit into a movie as full as ROTS.

Yeah, I totally hadn’t considered those visions as lies she’s telling herself, either. That’s some strong character stuff, in theory. She’d be seeing these “visions” as Kylo alludes to her darker nature; this has been her soothing method her whole life more than likely. But I agree with Eddie that we don’t necessarily HAVE to take this approach for both of our edits. Plus, I could see people retroactively saying that it feels like a fan edit because people usually prefer to believe what they’re seeing over what they’re being told.

One important thing worth considering about whether Palpatine creates the Skywalker bloodline or not: it massively benefits Kylo’s character, Luke’s in the sequels, and even Leia’s if we modify her flashback a bit.

If Kylo admits to Rey that the Force created his grandfather as a counter to Palpatine’s darkness, then he’d be admitting that his whole persona as Kylo Ren is a farce. Remember, his whole argument here is that “the dark side is in our nature”. So this exponentially strengthens his own deluded beliefs.

Now onto the characters themselves. Firstly, there is one of two options. Either there was so much evil in a young Ben Solo that Luke saw absolutely no chance of redemption in him, or there are so many evil instincts in Luke that he was willing to strike down his nephew over some bad dreams. Or a combination of the two somewhere. Luke then isolates himself from the galaxy to protect them from himself and what he suddenly believes is a flawed Jedi religion. As for Leia, she uses aggression to take down the brother who’s trying to teach her, and she senses that there is a dark fate waiting for her if she continues being a Jedi at all. So she is too fearful of herself and that to continue at all.

None of this sounds like what should have happened to the offspring of who is essentially Force-Jesus. Yes, he turned into Darth Vader, but that took a hell of a lot of manipulation on Palpatine’s part. It wasn’t something that just switched or snapped like it seemed to in Kylo and Luke. Plus, Anakin was redeemed! He returned as a Jedi. That should have had a greater impact on the trajectory of his offspring.

Now, all of this is likely because the writers wanted to elevate Rey as the main character, so they had to write random reasons for the Skywalkers to be in more minor roles. But the fact that we could actually EXPLAIN why things turned out so bad for their family? It seems like one we should take.

Even if we decided to remove her parents being good, we’d need some visuals for Rey to be seeing in place of her previous visions. She clearly is making a face like she is seeing something throughout. Without access to our own film studio, this will likely have to be footage from elsewhere in the Skywalker saga. Which is why it was convenient to have both Rey’s origin and the Skywalker’s be the same - created by Palpatine.

We could repurpose footage of Anakin holding Shmi’s dead body, Anakin as a child slave, Luke attacking Ben, and other dark moments of the Skywalkers. And this is what would be used to represent what Rey’s lot in life is with her nature and Palpatine manipulating everything from behind the scenes. It’s an idea I have but in practice it might not be good enough.

If you look at some of the drafts we’ve already cooked up, you’ll see we’re more than capable of cleverly weaving around whenever she shouts something like that by placing something truly negative beforehand.

To remove her parents being good, we’d have to remove more content from the Palpatine and Rey conversation, which has already been stripped down a bit in Ascendant. We won’t end up with much left, and it will be felt, I guarantee it. Plus, unless somebody radically changes the VFX of Rey’s parents ship in TFA, and comes up with a compelling reason why Rey would harbor such intense hatred for Palpatine going into their confrontation, then it’s what we’re stuck with.

With our new chain of events, they are merely paying Plutt to watch over her while they search the Jakku desert for Lor San Tekka’s village. As for why they don’t take her with them, I probably wouldn’t want to take my child for a dangerous search through the scorching desert, either, especially with assassins hot on my tail.

My initial drafts of this idea placed a hard emphasis on the fact that, genetically, they are two individual bloodlines that Palpatine merely kickstarted. True, they’d be related through the Force, but that just ties in with the dyad side of things.

Regardless, I do see the potential of changing our narrative to only Rey being a successful manipulation of the Force by Palpatine. It’s easier to write in a semi-condensed way than I’d imagined - “Palpatine’s dark experiments led the Force to create my grandfather as a counter. But ultimately, his influence over it triumphed. You’re his heir. You… are a Palpatine.”

NeverarGreat said:

Granted this is the first story where the protagonist doesn’t have a family of any kind to raise her, but that seems like a good reason to focus the story away from the location aspect and onto the lack of parents aspect.

Yup, and the fact that Palpy’s the one that killed them serves 2 purposes:

1. It lines up with what he does to groom his followers - he isolates them and those closest to them always seem to die (Dooku - Qui-Gon, Anakin - Shmi, etc.) He is then able to swoop in to fill the void.
2. Most importantly, it gives Rey a tangible reason to hate the Emperor, which is essential for his ritual at the end.

I like the core of this approach. But I’m still going to insist on keeping Rey’s parents good and her being hidden away on Jakku so Palpatine can’t retrieve his prize. I don’t think it’s a good idea to start changing more lines that were spoken on-screen with visible lips. The only problem with this new idea is that it’s hard to convey in simple terms. First, we’d have to explain how the Skywalkers were a reaction of the Force to Palpatine’s experiments because this is never stated in the main films (in fact the opposite is implied). And then we’d have to explain that Rey is the product of those experiments coming to fruition. The benefit of what we currently have is that both families would have the same origin (this being the latter), so we don’t have to explain ourselves twice. If that all did work out, though, we’d do the same thing as we’ve been talking about: “You’re his heir. You are a Palpatine” so we don’t have to absolutely demolish other scenes in the movie which refer to her as such.

Yeah, it isn’t strictly necessary. You’re right. But I figured that while we’re implementing one abandoned plot thread from ROTS we might as well put in another. I think it was meant to be revealed that Count Dooku, at his order, had the Tuskens capture his mother. And people think he planted Anakin’s visions and/or drained Padme’s life essence.

My goal was just to literally make Palpatine the reason for every bad thing happening to the Skywalkers, as well as their existence in the first place. But that might be a bit overkill, so agreed.

Yes, in this other idea on Nev’s thread she’d be biologically related to her mother, like Anakin is to Shmi. It’s the only way to preserve most of TLJ’s reveals as her parents being nobody (and herself to a certain extent) while also having Rey be viewed as a Palpatine.

In fact, I could do without the shift of Palpy’s “kill me, and my spirit will pass into you…” line going back to where it was (since that would obviously require video). It would just be cool to reinstate a reference to a ROTS scene that would become extremely important in this context.

I genuinely think the only thing that would need to be changed to create a vastly superior version of this film with my idea would be to take this edit, change Kylo’s dialogue in the hangar and bond-duel, revert Palpatine’s line about his spirit going into Kylo to its original location, and some new dialogue of Luke explaining Leia’s thoughts and Jedi path to Rey. Doing anything more than these things risks things getting too inflated with AI lines and hard to understand. And I don’t really see how these (almost entirely) audio changes would warrant an entirely separate project.

I never said that. I said he wanted her alive before she became a Jedi. So he would have wanted her alive in TFA, but not TLJ, which lines up with those movies. But your previous post had several parts where it’s suggested Palpatine personally wanted to kill her all along. That doesn’t work. They aren’t pitted against each other like this (with a fair fight) until the beginning of TROS. And my version of events adequately maintains all of this.

I edited my post above to better reflect this:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

"The Emperor told me to kill you so that the strongest of us takes the throne. But what he doesn’t know is that we are a dyad in the Force, Rey… two, sharing the power he conjured. We can end him and the Sith, and bring a new order to the galaxy, together…

Unfortunately it’s the only thing that makes sense to me at this point. Clone bodies clearly aren’t working for Palps, and the only way Daisy would be a female version of him anyway is if she were a ginger.

This other reveal is also one that makes everything that happened in the prequels and originals fall under a different light, which is something you want for a grand finale - encouraging subsequent rewatches. It answers unanswered questions in the saga. Palpatine’s fingers touch everything from Anakin’s mother’s death, Padme’s death, and even his own creation. Yes, it makes Anakin less special but it’s cool that he was chosen by the Force to bring balance despite his nature. It’s both ironic and also compelling to the idea of bad things being used for good for the benefit of everyone.

I’ve already ditched this idea, check out Nev’s thread for the newer one.

Sure, some of that flows a bit better, but I still think it’s worth stating at least one of the similarities between her and Vader’s story. Especially since they’re fighting right over Vader’s ruined mask the whole time. Also, it makes no sense how he’s trying to kill his own creation in this chain of events. That simply has to go. See my analogy below:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

It would be like making an exquisite painting only to use a blowtorch on it because somebody else made a similar one you might be interested in buying.

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. We share the same darkness, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right… your parents were no one. But your father had no part in your conception.”

“Don’t!”

“You are so like my grandfather. So like Darth Vader….”

“I don’t want this!”

“…destined for darkness.”

“No!”

“Palpatine hunted for you across the galaxy.”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)

“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey… I learned what happened to them.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents knew you were different, even then. They searched Jakku’s desert, seeking Luke’s disciples for his protection. But an agent of the Emperor tracked their stolen ship.”
(We have to explain why they’re flying around Ochi’s ship - this is also why Rey being hunted “across the galaxy” is necessary for them to steal it at some point.)

(Rey sees her parents get killed and the mask of Vader falls to the ground.)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you alive. I’ll come tell you why.”

“Why did the Emperor come for me?”

"Because he influenced the Force to create two dark bloodlines. My grandfather’s, and then perfected with you. You’re his heir, Rey. You… are a Palpatine.”

"The Emperor told me to kill you so that the strongest of us takes the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond not of shared blood, but power. We can end him and the Sith, and bring a new order to the galaxy, together…

hinventon said:

I would love to see a version of this that stays true to TLJ by making her parents careless drunkards. After all, why would a nobody junk trader want to raise a child? You would probably have to lose the Luke church but, but I think it’s ok that it’s a coincidence that she ends up near the falcon.

I would ordinarily agree but there’s still too much later on in the movie which relies on them being good people. If Palpatine had them killed, he was merely doing her a favor, and their fate needn’t be mentioned at all. Then you have to answer questions like why they had Ochi’s ship, how their ship ended up on Pasaana despite them being buried on Jakku, etc. Rey also needs a reason to strike Palpatine down, and this is as good as we’re gonna get.

EDIT: One another important note since we seem to be going in the direction of removing the shift of “Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you” from the beginning back to where it was. Having that line at the beginning “The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural” serves as an excellent hint for what’s to come.