Jar Jar Bricks

I never said that. I said he wanted her alive before she became a Jedi. So he would have wanted her alive in TFA, but not TLJ, which lines up with those movies. But your previous post had several parts where it’s suggested Palpatine personally wanted to kill her all along. That doesn’t work. They aren’t pitted against each other like this (with a fair fight) until the beginning of TROS. And my version of events adequately maintains all of this.

I edited my post above to better reflect this:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

"The Emperor told me to kill you so that the strongest of us takes the throne. But what he doesn’t know is that we are a dyad in the Force, Rey… two, sharing the power he conjured. We can end him and the Sith, and bring a new order to the galaxy, together…

Unfortunately it’s the only thing that makes sense to me at this point. Clone bodies clearly aren’t working for Palps, and the only way Daisy would be a female version of him anyway is if she were a ginger.

This other reveal is also one that makes everything that happened in the prequels and originals fall under a different light, which is something you want for a grand finale - encouraging subsequent rewatches. It answers unanswered questions in the saga. Palpatine’s fingers touch everything from Anakin’s mother’s death, Padme’s death, and even his own creation. Yes, it makes Anakin less special but it’s cool that he was chosen by the Force to bring balance despite his nature. It’s both ironic and also compelling to the idea of bad things being used for good for the benefit of everyone.

I’ve already ditched this idea, check out Nev’s thread for the newer one.

Sure, some of that flows a bit better, but I still think it’s worth stating at least one of the similarities between her and Vader’s story. Especially since they’re fighting right over Vader’s ruined mask the whole time. Also, it makes no sense how he’s trying to kill his own creation in this chain of events. That simply has to go. See my analogy below:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

It would be like making an exquisite painting only to use a blowtorch on it because somebody else made a similar one you might be interested in buying.

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. We share the same darkness, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right… your parents were no one. But your father had no part in your conception.”

“Don’t!”

“You are so like my grandfather. So like Darth Vader….”

“I don’t want this!”

“…destined for darkness.”

“No!”

“Palpatine hunted for you across the galaxy.”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)

“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey… I learned what happened to them.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents knew you were different, even then. They searched Jakku’s desert, seeking Luke’s disciples for his protection. But an agent of the Emperor tracked their stolen ship.”
(We have to explain why they’re flying around Ochi’s ship - this is also why Rey being hunted “across the galaxy” is necessary for them to steal it at some point.)

(Rey sees her parents get killed and the mask of Vader falls to the ground.)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you alive. I’ll come tell you why.”

“Why did the Emperor come for me?”

"Because he influenced the Force to create two dark bloodlines. My grandfather’s, and then perfected with you. You’re his heir, Rey. You… are a Palpatine.”

"The Emperor told me to kill you so that the strongest of us takes the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond not of shared blood, but power. We can end him and the Sith, and bring a new order to the galaxy, together…

hinventon said:

I would love to see a version of this that stays true to TLJ by making her parents careless drunkards. After all, why would a nobody junk trader want to raise a child? You would probably have to lose the Luke church but, but I think it’s ok that it’s a coincidence that she ends up near the falcon.

I would ordinarily agree but there’s still too much later on in the movie which relies on them being good people. If Palpatine had them killed, he was merely doing her a favor, and their fate needn’t be mentioned at all. Then you have to answer questions like why they had Ochi’s ship, how their ship ended up on Pasaana despite them being buried on Jakku, etc. Rey also needs a reason to strike Palpatine down, and this is as good as we’re gonna get.

EDIT: One another important note since we seem to be going in the direction of removing the shift of “Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you” from the beginning back to where it was. Having that line at the beginning “The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural” serves as an excellent hint for what’s to come.

Some other miscellaneous changes compiled here, as well:

“Because you’re a Palpatine? Leia sensed your dark nature, as well.”

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia feared the darkness that had lived in our father, and lived on within us. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again…by someone with the strength to overcome that darkness.”

“I created you to rule… here.”

Well, it turns out “bloodlines” can be replaced quite easily to make the link to ROTS as clear as possible. I’m also wondering if we should return the dyad to something that they’ve always been? At least in this context, it makes a lot more sense than the original film. They technically could have become one as soon as Rey as born. Perhaps Kylo always had visions of a little girl in the desert, thus him asking his officer in TFA: “What girl?” As for Snoke, all he did was bridge their minds so they could have conversations with each other. Whereas we’ve made it very clear with our new definition of the dyad that it is only concerned with the power shared between them. So, technically, Snoke only made their dyad connection easier to utilize. Yet another instance of the bad guys creating for evil purposes, but used by the Force for good. Here’s the story so far:

“Rey… wherever you are… you are hard to find.”

“You are hard to get rid of.”

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. I share the darkness that lives in you, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one… junk traders expecting a child they were unable to produce before.”

“Don’t!”

“Much like Vader’s mother. An unknown slave with a miraculous conception."

“I don’t want this!”

“Palpatine chose you."

“No!”

“As with Vader, he arranged for the deaths of your family.”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)

“My love… be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here… I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”

“They paid for your protection… in more than one way.”

“Stop talking.”

“I saw glimpses of you long before we met.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents sought Luke’s protection, chasing rumors of his allies in the Jakku desert… but Ochi tracked down the ship they stole. They resisted fiercely, only to be forgotten by the sands of time."

(Rey sees her parents get killed. Perhaps a flash of Anakin cradelling Shmi’s body as Vader’s mask falls to the ground?)

“So that’s where you are.”

“You know why the Emperor wanted to capture you. I’ll come tell you.”

—

“Why did the Emperor come for me?”

“Because clones are flawed hosts. So he influenced the Force to create dark life. My grandfather. Then, perfected with you, Rey. You… are Palpatine’s heir.”

“Created to inherit the throne of the Sith, he sees you as a true Palpatine. But what he doesn’t know is that we are a dyad in the Force, Rey… two, sharing the power linking our bloodlines. We can end him and the Sith, finish my grandfather’s work, together…”

(Removes his helmet)

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

“I do.”

I mean… that’s kinda the point of Star Wars, no offense. The Emperor is based on Hitler and the Empire the Nazi’s. You’re not supposed to like what was done or the people who did it. But good people can overcome their dark nature/past. That’s what the theme of this movie is.

Let’s combine a couple things:

(By the way there is plenty of non-speaking space in the first paragraph here so I wouldn’t worry about what’s below being too long).

“Because clones are flawed hosts. He influenced the Force to create two dark bloodlines. My grandfather’s. Then, perfected with you. You… are Palpatine’s heir.”

“Created to inherit the throne of the Sith, he sees you as a true Palpatine. But what he doesn’t know is that we’ve become a dyad in the Force, Rey… two, linked by the power our families share. We can end him and the Sith, and create something new, together…”

EDIT: Also, if we wanted to we could shorten the last part and have “dyad in the Force” only be mentioned by Palpatine later on:

“Created to inherit the throne of the Sith, he sees you as a true Palpatine. But what he doesn’t know is that we’ve become linked by the power our families share, Rey. We can end him and the Sith, finishing what my grandfather started, together…”

I do think that is an interesting idea, Nev. It reminds me of how Voldermort’s return does similar things to Harry Potter. But it does go against TROS’s logic that evil is apparently contained in your blood cells. We might have to be consistent with that. Especially since that’s the theme of the movie - rising above your evil nature and choosing your own legacy.

While I’d ordinarily agree with you, the purpose of explicitly calling out “a Palpatine” is only so that we don’t have to dig through the rest of the film to change the countless places where Rey is referred to as such. I don’t think that’s feasible with current technology. We also want her to be referred to as that so the upcoming Rey movie makes sense when (or if) it’s mentioned she’s related to him.

Something like the following as a WIP:

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one… junk traders expecting a child they were incapable of producing.”

“Don’t!”

“Much like Vader’s own mother. An unknown slave with a miraculous conception."

“I don’t want this!”

“Palpatine chose you."

“No!”

“Your parents fled across the galaxy as he hunted you.”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)

“Why did the Emperor come for me?”

“Because clones are flawed hosts. He influenced the Force to create two dark bloodlines. My grandfather’s. Then, perfected with you. You… are Palpatine’s heir.”

“You were created to inherit the legacy of the Sith as a Palpatine. But what he doesn’t know is that we’ve become a dyad in the Force, Rey… two, linked by raw power. We can end him and the Sith, and create something new, together…”

Obviously the dyad is what I’d prefer but it isn’t strictly necessary as you’ve pointed out. It would just need mouth modifications and AI lines of Palpatine at the end there which might not work very well.

A lot of people like the dyad concept, myself included. But I suppose I could see that working.

BTW, “Weak, like your parents” would still work too because they were so useless they couldn’t even remember where Rey was to save their lives lol. But not the part about them saving her from him, of course.

EDIT: After giving it a little more thought it may be best to stick with the “good parents” approach so Rey has a reason to be angry at Palps.

Well, as I explained in my last post, it might give us more creative freedom with what he’s saying and prevent any retcons with TLJ at all. Purely expansionary.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Instead of Rey seeing visions of her parents, she could instead be seeing dark moments of the Skywalkers (Luke attacking Ben, Kylo killing Han, etc.)

If we did do this, we could actually just revert back to her parents selling her for drinking money. They had a child they never wanted, so it makes sense. Then they were too drunk to remember where they sold her to. Holy shit this is amazing. It’s the exact opposite of how loving Shmi was.

EDIT: Only problem would be their ship being the same as Ochi’s. But we might be able to fix that somehow.

EddieDean said:

What is a Skywalker but a Palpatine heir who rose above it?

Bruh put this on a T-shirt asap lol

I’m proud of my rough draft posted earlier, but I like what you’re getting at with focusing more on the Skywalkers with the speaking time allowed to us. They are in the title of this movie, after all. Instead of Rey seeing visions of her parents, she could instead be seeing dark moments of the Skywalkers (Luke attacking Ben, Kylo killing Han, etc.) But we don’t want this to take away from Rey’s own backstory being filled in more. Also, I’d like to make it very clear that it’s still a bad idea for Palpatine to want Rey dead as a child if that wasn’t clear enough lol.

Dayum… I just realized it would even explain why Luke acts so uncharacteristic in TLJ to many people when he attacks his nephew. It’s the fact that the Skywalker bloodline was literally created to be evil Sith murderers. Yeah, like I said, this is going against canon, but in my conversations with several Star Wars fans over the past few years there are people that genuinely believe Palpatine created the Skywalkers. It’s heavily implied in ROTS, was supposed to be confirmed in that film, and was genuinely the direction George was going.

As I said before, nobody ever wanted to kill Rey in TFA. Snoke just wanted to see her in-person to assess her, and Kylo wanted to train her. In TLJ, Snoke says she must die because she “[has] the spirit of a true Jedi!” Palps says the same thing at the beginning of TROS: “Kill the girl. End the Jedi.” It’s clear she was only ever a target because of her allegiance with the Jedi. When Ben turns back to the light, Palpatine has no choice but to bank on turning Rey from the Jedi path and possessing her. Wanting to kill her himself before her experiences as a Jedi just doesn’t make a lot of sense if he specifically decided to create her. It would be like making an exquisite painting only to use a blowtorch on it because somebody else made a similar one you might be interested in buying.

The problem with him wanting to kill her as a child is that he went out of his way to create her through the Force just a few years prior. She hasn’t done anything to warrant being killed at that point - everything would be proceeding exactly as he intended. It makes sense he would start corrupting Ben and want her dead only after she disappears.

Technically all Snoke says about Rey in TFA is to have Kylo bring her to him. The fact that he wants Kylo to kill her in TLJ would still line up with the idea Palps was fully invested in Kylo at that point after witnessing she “has the spirit of a true Jedi”.

EddieDean said:

The only thing I might consider adding, is making it clear he had other experiments (implicitly including the Palpatine clone he now inhabits), but that Rey or Kylo still would be better vessels. I’d also include an angle about Palpatine wanting to kill her if he couldn’t possess her - but I think this core principle is the right angle.

I’d love to include that as the first sentence of the final paragraph, but we’d miss out on “as a Palpatine” which is essential for the rest of the movie’s dialogue to make sense.

For sure, that was always a problem I had with the clone angle. Because Palpatine would never want an artificially produced lifeform as his final host - that’s too scientific and weak. We see how his clones are falling apart when he possesses them. He’d want someone natural, constructed from the Force itself by influencing the midichlorians to produce a being like that somewhere in the galaxy. Whether his final choice is Kylo Ren or Rey, he doesn’t particularly care. This way, his clones were always a stepping stone and merely the first part to his resurrection.

As for the chosen one prophecy, it just makes it all hilariously ironic. Palpatine (and earlier Plagueis) thought he was creating the ultimate Sith host with alchemy, but instead they were creating the people the Force would use to destroy the Sith over and again.

Holy shit… I think I’ve figured it out. This is how we bridge Rey Nobody and Rey Palpatine. While this definitely isn’t canon, it’s what George Lucas would have actually preferred - according to a book he intentionally spelled this reveal out in ROTS but didn’t want to directly reveal it:

“Rey… wherever you are… you are hard to find.”

“You are hard to get rid of.”

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. I know the darkness that lives in you, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one… junk traders burdened with a child they never planned for.”

“Don’t!”

“They grew to care for you, regardless. But someone watched them from the shadows."

“I don’t want this!”

“Palpatine wanted you."

“No!”

“Your parents were hunted across the galaxy. Remember them.”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“My love… be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here… I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”

“They paid for your protection… in more than one way.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey… I learned what happened to them.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents sought Luke’s protection, chasing rumors of a congregation in the Jakku desert… but Ochi tracked down the ship they stole. They resisted fiercely, only to be forgotten by the sands of time."

(Rey sees her parents get killed.)

“So that’s where you are.”

“You know why the Emperor wanted to capture you. I’ll come tell you.”

“Why did the Emperor come for me?”

“Because his influence over the Force spawned two dark bloodlines. My grandfather’s. Then, perfected with you. You… are Palpatine’s heir.”

“You were created to inherit the legacy of the Sith as a Palpatine. But what he doesn’t know is that we’ve become a dyad in the Force, Rey… two, linked by raw power. We can end him and the Sith, and create something new, together…”

(Removes his helmet)

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

“I do.”

This way, we can keep every instance of characters referring to her as a Palpatine. We can also keep the Reylo kiss, because genetically they are two distinct bloodlines. The dyad existing between them makes sense because they are both products of Palpatine using the same manipulation of the Force. Later on, we’d need to reinstate “I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, with me.” The goal would be to try to make it clear that he preferred Rey initially as his vessel, but when he lost her he shifted to Kylo. He wants Rey dead at the beginning of this movie simply because she has chosen the path of a Jedi - it’s not that complicated. He sent Kylo to kill Rey because he knew the superior bloodline would survive the encounter. Finally, Rey taking on the Skywalker name makes a hell of a lot more sense, because she was created the same way as Anakin.

Hal 9000 said:

As an audience member I’d have a lot of questions about why they’d be assigned to raise and kill a child, as that phrasing makes it sounds like a single overall assignment.

And I still have a hard time getting over that Rey’s mother looks just like her.

I agree with the first point. Currently trying to find a way to make it sound like there was a change in their directive after a few years. That’s what the next line should imply “But they’d grown to care for you…”

I can fix the second point quite easily. Deepfakes have become easier as of late.

I dunno, it seems kinda cheap that they only became junk traders for a couple days out of sheer desperation. Especially when there is a compelling reason why the Sith cult would WANT tons of people to be doing that as their regular job.

They have hundreds upon hundreds of aging Imperial Star Destroyers that need regular maintenance and parts for the dreadnaught canon upgrades (according to our new explanation). And there are tons of downed Star Destroyers on Jakku to make this possible. People in a cult don’t just sit around all day doing rituals. They have to contribute to their mini society in some way. It makes sense to me that they would send their members to retrieve these parts, and those that did the best would be “rewarded” with raising a child based on Palpatine’s DNA.

Let’s combine all of the ideas put forward so far:

“Rey… wherever you are… you are hard to find.”

“You are hard to get rid of.”

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. Darkness is in your blood, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you… your parents were junk traders, bartering Star Destroyer parts for favor within the Sith fleet…”

“Don’t!”

“Ascending the ranks of the cult, they were honored with raising you."

“I don’t want this!”

“You grew unnecessary."

“No!”

“Palpatine ordered your death, but they’d grown to care for you.”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“Rey, my love… be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here… I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”

“They paid for your protection… in more than one way.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey… I learned what happened to them.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents sought Luke’s protection, chasing rumors of a congregation in the Jakku desert… but Ochi tracked down the ship he’d gifted them. They resisted fiercely, only to be forgotten by the sands of time."

(Rey sees her parents get killed.)

“So that’s where you are.”

“You know why the Emperor’s always wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.”

“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”

“Because after his full return, he saw his experiments as threats to his rule. You were designed from the blood of the Emperor. You… are a Palpatine.”

“The only purpose for your creation was to be one of his hosts on the Sith throne. But what Palpatine cannot foresee is that we’ve become a Dyad in the Force, Rey… two, linked by raw power. We can end him and the Sith, and create something new, together…”

(Removes his helmet)

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

“I do.”