I only have Episode 3. I’ll send you a PM. There is a fan edit request thread on here BTW so you don’t have to make an entirely new post like this.
I think the idea behind that person’s comment was in the near future where AI video generation and augmentation is possible. Admittedly, I agree that it’s a bit early to be discussing these kinds of things. Give it another 10 years, at least lol.
Oh, cool! I didn’t know that. Vader definitely won’t be a problem then.
If he does replace the other character’s voices, though, I really hope he doesn’t use some random person’s voice. Ryan Golden is like a one in a billion kind of person. I seriously doubt there is a twin of Ewan out there.
If you could send RL the center channel of whenever those characters are speaking in the scenes you want to replace, I can do that for you.
No offense, but that ruins the entire point of Leia reaching out to Kylo before he hurts Rey. It has to be the first time she does such a thing so it’s shocking enough for Ben to stop him in his tracks. Plus, her doing such a thing would require “all the strength she has left”, meaning she’d be dead before Endor. The reason it has to be Luke is that he isn’t confined to the rules of Force projection anymore since he’s a ghost.
Plus, Luke never “taunts” him with that dialogue, he’s literally just speaking facts. Reminding him that his grandfather chose love in the end over hatred - which had only ever taken and pushed others from him. In my mind, it’s essential that all 3 of the legacy characters show genuine compassion and care in order to redeem Kylo in this movie. Luke would demonstrate it first after Chewie “dies”. Then Leia shows it by reaching out to him one last time before she dies. And finally Ben is able to see his father again and admit that he was sorry and loved him all along.
I don’t think PJ usually comes on here. If he doesn’t end up using AI voices in his edit for whatever reason, I’m sure we can come together to replace the spliced lines on this thread.
Ah, that explains it. It does look way more artsy than the shots they ended up using in the film for some reason. I think it would slot in perfectly in place of the Kylo shot readying himself as Vader approaches him that I had to remove for continuity.
One thing worth considering about the rapid-fire visions in TROS is that they include footage from random parts of the previous movies, thus necessitating such a film style. What we have here is entirely new footage that is already arranged in a narrative format, so I really don’t think the same technique is necessary.
One other alternative might be to blend the Kylo and Rey fight from TFA in so that we don’t need to have Vader state that’s what’s on his mind, and make it immediately clear why they are located in the place that they are.
So the vision could start with flashes of the TFA fight, and then Kylo would find himself alone in the forest. The stuff with Vader happens, interspersed with the occasional clash from TFA. When Kylo lands the hit on Vader, we also see Rey slashing Kylo’s face. This would explain why he’s unbalanced enough to be thrown back by Vader into the air.
There are a couple problems with this, admittedly. If he’s reliving those moments in the forest, just with Vader in the place of Rey, he wouldn’t have the mask on. Yet, at the same time, we do want his mask on since that is what he reforges after this scene. It might also be confusing to audience to be constantly switching between 3 different realities - the past, present, and visionary.
I really don’t want this vision to be so rapid fire that you can’t even make out what is going on properly. Yeah, that might line up better with the original TROS, but there is definitely merit in making this more akin to Rey confronting her evil clone on the Death Star and also Luke’s own thing with Vader on Dagobah. There should be a mini story present there imo, with a beginning, middle, and end. And that includes allowing some build-up rather than jumping straight into things. I think the epileptic nature of TROS is something we should be actively avoiding in this case, not contributing further to.
Thanks for sharing that though. Apparently there is a shot with both Kylo and the mask in frame, which I had no idea existed because I haven’t watched original TROS in ages.
I think a good middle ground here would be to intersperse those shots of Kylo and the mask throughout the vision better. Currently, it’s only at the part where he’s hoisted up in the air. This might add to the “snappy” nature that you seem interested in.
It was actually “You underestimate my odds” which is a combination of Anakin/Vader and Han Solo. The reason it’s gone is because its corresponding shot doesn’t work anymore. Kylo doesn’t have his hood on, so I tried only using the part where the camera is panned down far enough to ignore that, but then I noticed that he’s got both of his hands on his lightsaber. His new first attack against Vader isn’t an overhead strike, it’s a single-handed swipe from his left.
So, TL;DR, it’s another continuity issue. I can check the fan film to see if there’s another shot of Kylo I can use, but I don’t believe there was one. The substitute here is Vader saying “You are no Sith” to Kylo performing 2 banned ligthsaber moves, and then Kylo says “I know” like Han. Kylo already emulates his father’s finger point thing later on, so it’s clear his dad is top of mind. As he says in TLJ, he never hated him, he only killed him because he thought he HAD to choose power because of fate. This movie clarifies that through the vision of the throne. Plus, Luke says “He would bring… the end of all I loved because of what he would become”.
What sound effects are missing? I’d like to secure the sound of Vader groaning in pain from ESB when Kylo slashes him, but that’s the only one I can think of at the moment.
Those aren’t actually the same shot, they do have subtle differences, but I know what you’re saying. I can’t get rid of the second distant shot because of lightsaber continuity reasons, they’re going in to clash and then suddenly they’d be far apart from each other.
I can, however, get rid of the first distant shot. It would just mean that the camera would change angles on Vader slightly in the same shot. I dunno if this breaks a film-making rule or whatever, but it looks good to me:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10Y36nv7KvjDdv74InyqntxTBy2H4y5DF/view?usp=sharing
Please be aware this is actually the source video, so it doesn’t have things like the AI lines. It’s also a more chunky file. I just wanted to show you what I’m talking about.
Exactly, lol. Except in the case of Ascendant it would be an unwelcome one since that edit is doing the approach that Palpatine always saw her as a threat until the last minute.
Whereas this edit is taking the almost exact opposite approach. He’s (kinda) telling the truth on Exegol that he never wanted her specifically dead. And then you have the original TROS where it’s completely bananas and the inner machinations of Palpatine’s mind are an enigma.
EddieDean and I were brainstorming in the other thread, and we came up with a really fantastic idea that could improve the genetic Rey Palpatine storyline. The essence of it is that, due to her parents hiding her, Palpatine never knew about Rey until the time of the sequels themselves. He only ever sent Ochi to look for her father. This fixes the problem of why her parents were on board Ochi’s ship, because he had just taken them without knowing they had a child. It also answers why the Emperor didn’t send any more of his followers to look for Rey on Jakku or the galaxy in general, because he didn’t even know she existed until she was already a Jedi, thus why he “always” wanted her dead.
Not much would need to be changed in order for this to work:
"It was Palpatine who had your parents taken. He was looking for your father. But he learned he had no potential in the Force. So he gave the order.”
This would help IMMENSELY in making it so that her father really is a nobody, despite his genetic relation. This is the canon answer, by the way, that her father couldn’t use the Force. It’s just an extremely relevant piece of information that’s omitted. And then Rey’s own statement would need to be whittled down later on:
Kylo: “I know why Palpatine discovered you.”
Rey: “Tell me.”
Kylo: “Because he saw what you would become. You don’t just have power. You have his power. You’re his granddaughter.”
By the way, I could substantially improve all of Kylo’s lines in these scenes due to my new voice model. Mostly the “become a dyad” one and “You were right”. The previous model was based on his Lego TFA voice lines.
EDIT: Ah, darn, Finn’s lines with Poe and D-O later would contradict this idea. So some thought would need to be given to that. But if we could figure this all out, it would be an elegant solution to make genetic Rey Palpatine more tolerable, to me at least.
I’ve come to the same conclusion, Starkiller. It’s just an idea that’s been in my head for a bit, and definitely more suited for Ascendant.
Here’s an even more extreme angle that follows from the previous - what if Rey’s dad was captured by Ochi and taken to Palpatine, who tortured him into obedience and deep into the dark side, and raised him as a subservient Sith - giving him the name Snoke. Then, Rey REALLY has a reason to want to kill Palpatine - for vengeance for her father. I’m not suggesting you use this idea, or even that it’s good - more that it’s an angle I’ve not yet seen considered.
Rey’s father does indeed have blue eyes and a similar head shape. But he’s definitely not 8 feet tall, or whatever lol.
But your other post is a marvelous idea, Eddie. Although it obviously would be for Ascendant, and not this edit. Perhaps Palpatine’s “son” escaped when he was a youngster, and has been on the run all that time. Then we have Kylo state that once he was captured Ochi discovered he was incapable of using the Force, so Palps ordered him killed. And he never knew about Rey before she’d already chosen the path of a Jedi, so he wanted her killed, too.
I think, for the purposes of this edit, I can only hope and pray that the Starlight project updates the VFX of the ship that leaves Rey behind. So, yeah, this specific discussion might be more suited for Hal’s thread.
Here’s how that Kylo dialogue would work for Ascendant:
“It was Palpatine who had your parents taken. He was looking for your father. But he found out he was useless with the Force. So he gave the order.”
This would then tie in with “Weak, like your parents”
I want to bring up one last potential idea for this edit that is supplementary in nature to the main course, which is the dyad duel and hangar scene changes.
This edit is intended to be paired with TLJ: Rekindled, which includes Kylo’s line that her parents are dead and buried on Jakku. In original TROS, there are several problems with this idea:
I think the only way all of these pieces fit together is if Ochi was the one purposely taking her parents away from her. Now, obviously, this would also mean that Ochi intended to leave Rey behind as well, and not deliver her to Palpatine as he was originally instructed to.
I think a second reveal about Rey’s origin could easily slot itself into Poe and Finn’s discussion about D-O. We’d simply repurpose the footage of the ship taking off from TFA and her parent’s subsequent deaths after Finn’s line: “To bring a little girl he was supposed to take from Jakku, to the Emperor.” Over the flashback, we’d have a Finn voiceover, just like Luke does in the next scene.
“But Palpatine wanted her parents to sell her, instead. He ensured she was left alone and afraid on a harsh world, to push her to the dark side. And eventually to himself.”
Obviously both references to Rey recognizing Ochi’s ship would be reinstated. Now, the biggest problem with this idea is that we’re entering the territory of more hard retcons, which I’d say we’ve thus far avoided with only soft retcons. Specifically, the fact that she was sold for “drinking money”. Maybe the drinks were for Ochi? lol And there is also an argument to be made that Palpatine himself could do a more effective job of turning Rey to the dark side than trauma and Jakku ever could.
I’d still like to hear some other thoughts on this, though. I’m like 90% sure I’m including the Vader duel and Luke and Kylo conversation at this point, and this idea I’m a little under 50% in support of.
Which characters do you need done?
Yes, music is the next step. That would fill the remaining 3.1 channels, because the fight itself is only stereo. Ideally it would be composed by John Williams, but I suppose any other Star Wars source could potentially work.
I’d also need to figure out how to sound mix the parts of Kylo outside of the vision. Stuff like this is something I’m completely inexperienced in, so with Hal’s commitment to assist with this project I’m probably gonna have to rely on that. But I’m not going to officially request such a thing until the dyad duel and hangar scene are taken care of, which is ongoing thanks to him.
In other words, we have a long road ahead of us, but that’s fine by me. It gives us more time to brainstorm our options. Especially in the case I overlooked something.
EDIT: The two that stand out to me in terms of the saga itself are the following -
Oh. Well, like you said, I think most of the blame for the weirdness was with the second sentence. So thanks for pointing that out. I’ve been thinking of alternatives for the first sentence and nothing else conveys my intended meaning properly. For example, with your suggestion, it sounds like Luke is admitting that Palpatine made them, which I want to steer clear of.
Anyways, here is the (hopefully) final rough draft of the Vader vs. Kylo scene. There are a couple experimental things in there that I can change, if needed:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PNq604n2sbbK8_y4y0ws2MNVg6AOXffP/view?usp=sharing
It was just the second sentence’s structure that was wonky. My bad.
"Because you’re a Palpatine? Nobody has a right to those the Force made. Only you can choose your belonging. Some things are stronger than blood…”
And sorry, but the fun of this edit is that her and Anakin’s origin is literally something you get to choose. The audience, and Rey, get to decide just how much of a hand Palpatine had in it, because there’s no reason Luke should be able to know for sure one way or the other. Is Palps completely making it all up that he influenced how the Force made them, and they were always only made by the Force to end the Sith? Or did he perhaps empower them with more of the dark side to stop them from accomplishing their purpose and align with his own? Remember, their blood is just the raw power of the Force, nothing actually related to Palpatine himself in either case. I explained this in the description of this thread. So I don’t think I’ll be taking this particular feedback into account.
To amend the potential misinterpretation I just pointed out, I think the line could be further modified:
“Because you’re a Palpatine? Nobody has a right to those the Force made. That choice belongs to you. Some things are stronger than blood…”
This way the emphasis is less on denying that such a claim is possible, and more so that such a claim would be fraudulent without the consent of both parties. That’s the only requirement, no matter how reluctant it is like in the case of Rey about to strike down Palpatine. Plus, it lines up with what Kylo states earlier: “You… are a rightful Palpatine.”
I’m gonna go back to the Vader and Kylo fight today to wrap that up. Just felt like offering up some food for thought concerning this other idea.
I don’t mean to flip-flop back and forth, but yeah, that is the only alternative I currently see that kinda works. The only reason I’d be fine with it is because it serves the conclusion of the story so well rather than introducing another twist.
True, as was pointed out by krlozdac, this makes it so we know she cannot be a Palpatine unless she chose that for some reason. But that’s where the Palpatine confrontation twist comes into play, where he’s basically forcing her to choose exactly that. “You will be Empress. We will be one.” So even if he cannot claim her at the moment, he believes he will be able to anyway.
I do disagree with the notion that Palpatine claiming Vader as his apprentice goes against the idea of this alternative line. Vader was definitely allowing him to do this: “I will do whatever you ask.” He was submitting to him in RotS from the very beginning. So, ultimately, it is a decision that belongs to both Anakin and Rey. And seeing his son dying was what finally snapped Vader out of his subservience. For Rey, it was Ben reaching out to her on Exegol.
That could somewhat work, but it would need to be re-worded because it’s creating too much complexity for the audience.
“Because you’re a Palpatine? That doesn’t have to be your destiny. You can overcome it, Rey. Some things are stronger than blood…”
But, ultimately, this is still unsatisfactory because Rey knowing that she never has to give in to Palpatine removes any stakes that would otherwise be in the finale. And as I pointed out, Rey states that her greatest fear is of herself, not necessarily of her own fate. So the line here needs to be a fact about who she is, at least at the beginning.
I think it’s pretty wild that Hal and other people here seem to disagree with stating that Anakin / the chosen one was made to end the Sith (who only exists as Palpatine in the ST). Like, that’s literally the whole point of the prophecy. Yes, you are free to say that the Force is biased and partisan in this regard. But it’s only doing this because the Sith are literally bending the will of the Force to their own. Of course it wants to annihilate Palpatine, he’s cheating its own prophecy by refusing to die! It had to cheat in return by creating a “chosen second”, if you will. There might be another way to word this so it’s a little less upfront, but I genuinely think this is the only way this edit can proceed. It’s in the title of the project, folks. “Chosen One Edit”. I can understand if you think this line is too on the nose, but there’s a lot of dialogue in this movie like that already.
“Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force made my father and then you… to end his rule.”
OR
“Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force made my father, and then you… to end the Sith.”
For context, Kylo states that Palpatine (allegedly) manipulated the Force itself into creating them, so there’s still a double meaning in both of these options. The first one is arguably more clear because if Rey kills him with hatred, she’d only be replacing his reign with her own while possessed. The second one is a touch less clear, but it actually aligns exactly with what Rey says later: “I haven’t come to lead the Sith. I’ve come to end them.” To which Palpatine notes that ending the Sith would involve killing him, and so that’s when he goes on his spiel about him always wanting that for her.
And something like “the Force chose us, to bring balance” doesn’t also diffuse the tension in the same way? Or anything suggesting the idea that Rey’s vision doesn’t really mean squat if she just tries hard enough? See how we’ve come full circle? This is why such a heavy-handed statement like they were made to end him was kinda necessary. It has to be something that could be perceived as good in the moment, only for it to be turned into something terrifying by Palpatine later on. In other words, whatever Luke says HAS to have a double meaning which could satisfy both of this project’s valid takeaways:
- The Force made the Skywalkers and Rey because Palpatine (and the Sith) were creating an imbalance in the Force. Palpatine, who believes himself to be a master over the Force, is merely taking credit for the life which was created to oppose him.
- Perhaps the Force did want to create this life to counter him, but Palpatine influenced how the Force made it so they had a greater portion of the dark side and a destiny for power. This would explain Anakin’s pull to the dark, the struggles of each of his descendants with the dark in the sequels, and finally Rey’s own darkness that she grapples with - in this film particularly.
I’m yet to see an alternative that is satisfying in this way. The canon answer IS literally that Anakin was made to kill Palpatine and the Sith. It makes sense that Rey would be made to do the same thing when he cheats death, as no other Sith has done that before according to RotS. The concept this edit proposes is that Palpatine himself may have had a hand in how his cosmic adversaries were made so they’d only end up helping him.