ImperialFighter

Sluggo -  This is all dependant on 'a certain point of view'.... but here's that 'possibility' about the recent anomaly you noted.  Having now checked on this, it seems it is indeed only the biggest, foreground Stardestroyer in this shot below, that is progressively 'overshadowed' by the 'Executor'.  The other 2 Stardestroyers in the 'distance' seem to be outside of the 'coverage' by the 'Executor's' hull, and are just already 'lit' in a steady 'half-shadow' like the biggest, foreground one is, at the start of the shot.  (This particular shot shows the start, but the foreground Stardestroyer is eventually 'shadowed' all-over, before the shot changes) -   

....the above shot changes to this one below, and I've always looked on the single 'distant' Stardestroyer in the shot below, as being the furthest back 'distant' one that was previously seen in the above shot....meaning that the furthest forward 'distant' Stardestroyer from the above shot, is now somewhere just out of the left of the frame of the shot below -

....and when the above shot then changes to this one below, that the furthest forward 'distant' Stardestroyer (seen in the top shot above), is now seen at this point, outside of the 'coverage' by the 'Executor's' hull -

....so that when the above shot changes to this one below, it now seems that the furthest forward 'distant' Stardestroyer is now 'hidden' on the other side of the 'Exector', with only the furthest back 'distant' one shown in the distance behind the nearest one to us, being 'passed-over' by the 'Executor' -

This is just my own preferred way of accounting for the layout of the shots above, and there are certainly some slight 'positioning issues' with this way of looking at this whole effects sequence. 

However, I'm sure it could be argued that on the second shot from the top, that the single 'distant' Stardestroyer is the furthest forward one, and not the furthest back one....but that would make it seem as if we have gained yet another Stardestroyer in the overall 'Fleet' in the shot third from the top (which happened to be even further forward than the 2 seen in the top shot)....and that there is indeed now one of the top shot's 'distant' Stardestroyers missing in the bottom shot!

Unless Adywan decides differently, I'll look at it in the former way.  What I'd quite like to see though, is a better 'positioning' of the 'passed-over' Stardestroyer in the bottom shot, in relation to the protruding 'centre detail' of the 'Executor's' underbelly hull, as is shown in the shot that precedes it (second from the bottom).  Because in the bottom shot, it seems as if the 'passed-over' Stardestroyer is now further away from that part of the hull, compared to the shot that precedes it....

I hope you could all follow that, and my previous thoughts on it all.  This now concludes all my 'existing Fleet shots' comments (about time some may say....), and I look forward to whatever Adywan chooses to amend, or not amend.  In the meantime, ILM's effects are great, but their 'continuity' is a bit suspect at times....

Sluggo said:

So if these three destroyers that are being overshadowed by the Executor,

 

why can we only see two of them?

 

 

You'd need to ask Lucasfilm....  ;)    I think I may have a reasonable 'possibility', as to what happened here, but I'll first need to organise the intervening screenshot that occurs between these two, to better explain it.  By the way, if I remember correctly, the 2 Stardestroyers in the distance of the top shot here were already 'lit' in a 'half-shadowed' manner, and that it is only the nearest (biggest) one in the shot that is being 'overshadowed' by the 'Executor'.  But I'd need to check.

Darth Solo -  Han???  'mock-ups'???  Late night I take it! ;)

ImperialFighter said:

We didn't actually include it here, but the 'Shuttle' element that is seen dropping down in 'Jedi', could actually also be included here, since it could perhaps indicate how Vader 'travelled down' to the surface.... 

Adywan -  as far as the sequence of speculative 'mock-ups' shown on page 108 are concerned, I've just noticed that amongst all my comments, that this one is incorrect.  Vader's personal Shuttle wouldn't in fact be seen exiting from this standard Stardestroyer's bay, because if he actually went down to the surface in his Shuttle, it would of course have exited from the 'Executor' Superstardestroyer that he was aboard at this point!  Sorry for the confusion there.

As far as the rest of the sequence, I didn't think these earlier shots of the 'Imperial Fleet' would be needed as far as the 'mock-ups' shown were concerned, but just to clarify some things, here's a couple of thoughts about the scenes in the movie involving the 'Fleet, that came before Shot 1 on page 108) -

This earlier shot in the movie seems to show just some of the overall 'Imperial Fleet' (as there are other Stardestroyers scattered around various star 'systems' in the Galaxy, including the one that 'seeded' the 'probes'....), which are 'gathering in close proximity of each other', in a random order.   There are 6 Stardestroyers shown in total here, including the one whose Command structure is passing closely 'overhead' -

....in the very next shot (which is shown below), that comes immediately after the one above, we see the 'closely passing overhead' Stardestroyer being 'shadowed' by what turns out to be the massive 'Executor' overhead.  However, in this shot, we can now see an additional 2 Stardestroyers in the distance, heading in the same direction of travel as the 'shadowed' Stardestroyer.  These 2 Stardestroyers are therefore not part of the 5 distant ones that were seen in the previous shot, shown above.  Therefore, we have now seen a total of 8 Stardestroyers in this area of grouping, and still have the 'Executor' to see, which now gives us a final total of 9 ships that can be seen to make up this particular part of the 'Imperial Fleet'.... 

....in none of these other remaining early shots of the Fleet (shown below, where we see the 'Executor', and where Vader is seen observing the Fleet), do we get an indication that there are more than these 9 ships seen so far, except that the distant RIGHT-pointing Stardestroyer in the 'Executor' shot could be argued as being a 10th one -

....whether 9 or 10, there is certainly no more than that indicated in the movie, and it is not clear if all of these 'random-facing' Stardestroyers even ended up being ordered to escort the 'Executor' to the Rebel Hoth Planet or not....  The rest of the shots in the movie (as seen in Shot 1 onwards on page 108) do not seem to indicate many either, and the 'mock-ups' were done to reflect this.  Even if all the 9 or 10 ships which comprised the 'Executor's' Fleet were ordered to head for the Hoth 'system', there is not a huge armada of them.  The 'mock-ups' were merely intended to show a bit more of the few Stardestroyers we know about, in a way that didn't require a huge amount of 'additions', while still reflecting the fact that they were probably spread apart a good bit from each other, once they reached the Hoth Planet in question,  

As far as the TIE shots in the sequence, the only reason they were also added was because of Adywan's previous hint that he may place a TIE in the background of one of the 'floating city' shots.....  The 'balcony' one to be exact.  So just for fun, the floating city TIE addition was added too, as a precursor to several other shots that are ready to 'mock-up' at some future time, that would follow-on from Shot 48 (the last shot where we see Luke's X-wing approaching Bespin), and which would show several potential points in the floating city scenes, where a glimpse of 3 'Executor' TIEs and some subtle extra floating city 'air traffic' could be shown also....  The one shown passing the window behind Vader and Boba was intended to be the first 'possible appearance' of the 3 TIEs, to convey the overpowering 'Imperial presence' that arrived before the Falcon did, and was to be the start of this second (much shorter) sequence....again, just as a bit of 'speculation'. 

However, even doubleofive doesn't know that yet, so I'll have to see what he says first!....  ;)  

DarkHorizons.com is reporting that the 3D re-releases will take quite a while yet....  Plenty of time for Lucasfilm to incorporate a few of Adywan's ANH:R ideas I hope!  Maybe they should just wait till he's finished his 'Empire', along with the rest of his edits in the saga too....  ;)

Happy to ease your burden doubleofive, lol!  I'm glad you like how things came out.  As far as that point, there is an element or two in 'Jedi' that I know would have worked for Luke accompanying a Transport, along with another X-Wing, but to be honest, I wouldn't be so hard on him -  After listening more closely to the dialogue, it seems that the Rebel Transport that took off before he got a chance to get into his X-wing, was the LAST one that needed to leave.  Hey, the pilots of it didn't wait for Luke at the end of the day, and you can see that there were at least 2 X-Wings to escort it away already.  I reckon he'd done his bit at the end of the day, by bringing down that AT-AT single-handledly!  Hope that helps a little. 

Yes, you can see the 'starfield' through that shot.  I actually noticed one involving the Falcon, that Adywan can perhaps sort eventually.  But that, and a couple of other things, are for another day.  I need to go for a long lie in a dark room after all the problems of our recent efforts....  Worked out fine in the end though.  :)

Whew!  Anxious times....  You can have your thread back now Adywan, and Jay, your a genius!....  :)

Here's the fifth and last post, showing some 'alternative' possibilities....

The existing Stardestroyer shot could also be 'flipped' to look like shots C and D  (A precedent for 'flipping' was already set in ANH:R, where the Stardestroyer now fires on the 'manoeuvering' Millennium Falcon from the right of the frame, instead of the left).  Again, we see a little more of the 'Fleet', guarding their 'Sectors'. 

There could be a distant 'Executor', instead of a distant Stardestroyer, as currently seen in shots E and F, which is the LEFT-hand side passing on the RIGHT of the Hoth Planet -

....or the existing Stardestroyer shot could remain as seen in shots A and B, while the 'interior' shot could be 'flipped' to look like shots G and H, instead , which is the RIGHT-hand side passing on the LEFT of the Hoth Planet - 

....or perhaps something like this, where the first shot of the Stardestroyer is 'flipped', but combines with this version of the RIGHT-hand side of the 'interior', as seen in Shots I and J, which will seem to move slowly to the LEFT of the frame -

....or something like this, where the LEFT-hand side of the 'interior' will seem to move slowly to the RIGHT of the frame instead, as seen in shots 7 and 8 - 

And just as a final thought, where Captain Needa's Shuttle is concerned.... 

Although the existing Shuttle in 'Empire' exits from the bigger, MAIN 'bay', the Shuttle in the beginning of 'Jedi', exits from the smaller, FRONT 'bay' instead....  Shot K, seen here, gives a better idea of this possible 'variation'.  Either way, it would be neat to have the new Shuttle still have a 'swooping around and downwards' quality, either to the left, or to the right, towards the 'Executor', as this current 'movement' nicely matches the score that accompanies it.  Just another thought. 

Thanks for listening, and I hope there's been something for you to like along the way.

Many thanks to you again doubleofive.  This 'sequence' is now officially DONE!  :)

Here is the fourth post, continuing the 'Main' sequence -

....after Vader has 'accepted' Captain Needa's apology, he is informed by Admiral Piett that the Fleet has completed their scan of the area and found nothing....before suggesting that if the Millennium Falcon went into 'lightspeed', it would be on the other side of the Galaxy by now....  Vader orders him to alert all Commands, and to calculate every possible destination along their last known trajectory....before warning his recently-promoted Fleet Admiral not to fail him again....  A nervous Admiral Piett then orders the 'Executor's' communications operators to alert all Commands, and to deploy the Fleet accordingly....  As there are many possibilities, all the Stardestroyers begin to individually seperate towards the various calculated directions that the Millennium Falcon may have headed towards, from this last known area....  Meanwhile, unsuspected by most, the Falcon is actually attached to the rear exterior of the Stardestroyer 'Avenger's' Command structure.... 

....as the Fleet slowly breaks up into their various directions, Han decides that although it is far-away, and they are without 'Hyperdrive' capability, that they should escape towards the mining colony based at Bespin....  The Stardestroyer 'Avenger' eventually follows it's predicted standard Imperial procedure of dumping it's heavy garbage, before going to 'lightspeed'....and so the Millennium Falcon detaches, and briefly drifts away amongst the large pieces of deposited debris, just before the Stardestroyer then deploys away to it's speculative designated destination, as the others have done....  However, unbeknown to the crew of the Falcon, a certain cunning Bounty Hunter has skillfully concluded how the fugitives may be planning to escape capture....  When his hunch proves correct, he proceeds to 'track' the escapee's intended destination....and relays the information back to the 'Executor', giving Vader the opportunity to arrive there first.... 

....meanwhile, Luke's intensive 'Jedi' training under Yoda continues, and his 'Force'-powers grow ever-stronger....until there comes a moment where he has a disturbing 'vision', involving a city in the clouds, and where his friends are in pain....  When Yoda tells him that this is a possible 'future', and that it is difficult to tell if they will die or not, Luke resolves to go and help them....  Elsewhere, the Millennium Falcon and it's crew have eventually reached their far away destination....and are strictly monitored and escorted by security cloud-cars towards a specific landing platform on the floating cloud city above Bespin....  

....eventually, they are met by Han's old buddy Lando, now the head administrator of Bespin's illicit gas-mining operations, who proceeds to personally escort them to some temporary quarters, while further repairs to the Millennium Falcon's 'Hyperdrive' are carried out....  However, C3PO wanders off, and gets blasted by an unseen assailant....  Meanwhile, Yoda is joined by Obi-Wan, who also strongly advises Luke to complete his 'Jedi' training before attempting to face Vader and the Emperor....  Although Luke is warned that his friends are only being used as a means to get at him, because of an ulterior interest in him and his abilities, he remains determined to help them out, and immediately leaves Dagobah in his X-Wing to do so....  Elsewhere, on the floating cloud city, a hightly-suspicious Princess Leia tells Han of her concerns for the long-missing C3PO, as Chewbacca rescues his remains from a junk-pile....  Lando reappears, and on a false pretext, invites his guests to join him, confiding along the way that things have developed that will ensure security for the whole of the city, and that he has just made a deal that will keep the 'Empire' out of it's affairs forever....as he leads them to a pre-determined meeting place for an unpleasant re-union....  A distant passing TIE-fighter emphasises the sudden danger of the situation the fugitives now find themselves in, and that Luke soon will too....as well as the overwhelming odds that previously faced Lando, and the city as a whole, shortly before they arrived....

....after the introductions, even more uninvited guests appear, as a regretful Lando points out that he didn't have much of a choice in the matter....

....meanwhile, Vader's intended prize, young Luke Skywalker, is now fast-approaching the Bespin system in search of his helpless friends....

....and confirms to a concerned Artoo, that Threepio is definately with them....

....when suddenly, Artoo gets very agitated....

....before a grimly determined Luke tells him to hang on, as they are almost there....

....for he is now fully-aware of the great task ahead, and his date with destiny....as a certain ominous Imperial flagship awaits in the vicinity of his final destination... 

The fifth and last post, showing some 'alternatives', will follow shortly - 

Here is the third post, which continues the 'main' sequence -

....Luke prepares to escape from the Hoth Planet, as R2D2 agitates for him to leave immediately....

....however, the remaining Stardestroyer Fleet will still be a threat....and one ship in particular awaits the return of Vader....

....fortunately, the Rebel's 'Ion Cannon' has previously managed to create an escape route in this particular 'Sector'.... 

....enabling Luke to get away too, and set a new course for the 'Dagobah system', to search for Yoda....just as he was advised to do by Obi-Wan, after his earlier encounter with the 'Wampa'(s?).  Unfortunately, Han, Leia, Chewbacca, and C3PO have not been so lucky....

....as they have encountered a few of the other Stardestroyers deployed in the vicinity, when they tried to escape from the Hoth Planet in a different direction....

....however, the Millennium Falcon's 'Hyperdrive' has failed....so Han evades capture by entering a huge asteroid field, which destroys his TIE pursuers....before he flies into an opening in a very large asteroid for temporary safety from the Stardestroyers following....  In the meantime, Luke has crash-landed on 'Dagobah', where Artoo has a bad experience with a local swamp creature....  Meanwhile, Vader is now back onboard the 'Executor'.   Admiral Piett approaches his 'chamber' to notify him that some of their other ships have sighted the Millennium Falcon, but that it has entered an asteroid field, and it would be dangerous to follow.  Vader emphasises to Admirial Piett that he wants the ship captured, no matter what....

....in the meantime, Luke and Artoo have encountered a friendly inhabitant on 'Dagobah', while Han and Chewbacca continue repairing the Falcon's 'Hyperdrive' inside the safety of the asteroid cave....  Meanwhile, the 'Executor' in now relentlessly following through the asteroid field, where the Falcon was last sighted, as some of the accompanying Fleet sustains heavy damage....  A 'holographic' Stardestroyer Commander suggests that the Falcon must have been destroyed by now, but Vader notifies him that the occupants are still 'alive', and orders that he wants every ship available to sweep the asteroid field until they are found....

....just afterwards, Admiral Piett alerts Vader that the Emperor is commanding that he makes contact with him.  Vader orders him to move the 'Executor' out of the huge asteroid field, so that a clear 'transmission' signal can be made....

....it turns out that the Emperor is aware of how potentially dangerous Luke Skywalker is, and wants Vader to deal with him.  Vader (who has ulterior motives now, and who plans to meet Luke personally) suggests that rather than have him 'dealt with', that perhaps Luke can become an ally of the 'Empire' instead....which the Emperor goes along with....  In the meantime, Luke and the friendly inhabitant are now in Yoda's home, where Luke discovers that his host is the 'Jedi master' he has been looking for....  Meanwhile, the remaining Stardestroyers continue to clear a path through the asteroid field, as Vader ordered, as they continue their search for the Millennium Falcon, and it's occupants....

....even TIE 'bombers' can't bring them out into the open, as the crew continue repairs inside the deep bowels of the very large asteroid...until they discover they've flown inside the belly of a gigantic 'space slug', and have to make a hasty escape back into the middle of the dangerous asteroid field....  In the meantime, Yoda has begun instructing Luke, who has a glimspe of things to come where Vader is concerned, inside a mysterious underground cavern....  Meanwhile, the 'Executor' relentlessly continues onwards, just outside the huge asteroid field....

....several 'Bounty Hunters' that were invited by Vader, are now aboard the 'Executor', and are instructed by Vader to capture the occupants of the Millennium Falcon 'alive'....  At this point, an unimpressed Admiral Piett is notified of a priority signal from the Stardestroyer 'Avenger', and is finally able to inform Vader that the Millenium Falcon has now been located by one of the Fleet....  Meanwhile, the Stardestroyer 'Avenger' continues after the Falcon, and is almost upon it....  

....fortunately, the Millennium Falcon comes out of the huge asteroid field at this point....but unfortunately, the 'Hyperdrive' fails again, as there wasn't enough time to fix it properly, due to the hasty exit from the asteroid cave....  After a direct hit on the main rear deflector shields, Han decides to divert all power to the Falcon's front shields, and turns around to face his pursuer....

....this unexpected 'attack position' move by the Millennium Falcon now forces Captain Needa to order the Stardestroyer 'Avenger's' own shields be put up, just before the Falcon swoops closely overhead....  

....when Captain Needa demands that the Millennium Falcon be 'tracked', he is informed that it no longer appears on the Stardestroyer's scopes, and that there is no trace of them now....  Unluckily for him, he is also informed that Vader is demanding an update on his pursuit of the Falcon....  Meanwhile, Luke's training under Yoda continues apace, culminating in him revealing the potential power of the 'Force' to a disbelieving Luke, when he salvages his sunken X-Wing spacecraft for him....  The Fleet has now regrouped nearby the vicinity of the Stardestroyer 'Avenger', as Captain Needa shuttles down to the 'Executor' to apologise personally to Vader for losing the Millennium Falcon....    

The fourth post will follow shortly -

Here is the second post, and the beginning of the 'main' sequence  showing 'IMPERIAL FLEET APPROACHING HOTH SYSTEM'

(This sequence of shots includes a 'recap' of some of the events that take place before, and after, the Imperial Fleet's approach of the 'Hoth system', as a way of better explaining the reasons behind some of the 'mock-ups'.  Note: only the larger shots have been altered in any way) 

....as some of the 'Imperial Fleet' regroup, Darth Vader, who is aboard the Superstardestroyer 'Executor', is told that one of the Fleet's other, distant Stardestroyer's has launched a 'Probe Droid' that has discovered a Rebel base in the 'Hoth system'....  Meanwhile, the Rebel General is also aware of the Probe, and begins an evacuation of the Hoth base.  Vader tells Admiral Ozzel that he is 'sure' Skywalker is with them (and who he intends to meet with, personally), and orders General Veers to prepare his troops for an attack.  Vader heads off to confront the Rebels aboard the 'Executor', accompanied by some of the Fleet.... 

 ....however, the Rebels have been able to detect that the Imperial Fleet have come out of 'Hyperspace' in 'Sector 4' (as Admiral Ozzel has been careless, and come out too close to the 'system'), and the Rebel General orders a re-route of all power to their surrounding 'Energy Shield...and to prepare for an eventual ground assault from Imperial troops....  Meanwhile, General Veers tells Vader that they have detected an 'Energy Shield' that is protecting an area of one of the 'Hoth system' Planets, and that it is able to withstand any bombardment from the Fleet....  Vader is not pleased, and orders General Veers to have his troops make a 'surface' attack instead....  After dealing with Ozzel, Vader then puts the now-Admiral Piett in command of the 'Executor', and orders him to arrange to land General Veers and his troops, beyond the Rebel's 'Energy Shield', and to deploy the Fleet so that the Rebels won't escape from the system....  Meanwhile, Rebel X-wing Pilots who are to escort the 'Rebel Transports' away from the Hoth Planet, are told by Princess Leia, that the 'Ion Cannon' will shoot at the enemy Stardestroyers, so that they can get escape past them....  The remaining Rebel troops scan for the expected Imperial ground attack, while the Rebel General orders that the protective 'Energy Shield' be briefly opened to allow the first Rebel Transport to try to escape....   

 ....meanwhile, the Imperial Fleet has been deployed, and awaits....

Shots 5 and 6 (replacing the 2 seconds-long 'grey' Stardestroyer scene) show the final 2 seconds of the approx. 18 seconds of 'overhead' Stardestroyer footage seen at the beginning of 'Jedi' (There will be a couple of 'alternative' shots of the existing scene, in the fifth and last post).  However, I know that you are perhaps hoping to re-arrange the beginning of your 'Jedi' edit a little, so as to make it more 'Executor'-focused, so that it doesn't repeat the same kind of 'overhead' Stardestroyer 'opening' so much, as was seen in 'A New Hope'....  What I don't know is, if you are still intending to incorporate any of this 'overhead' Stardestroyer element into 'Jedi, or not.  If so, then no worries, but if not, then perhaps you could incorporate it here, even in this very cut-down form, as it's a very nice miniature shot, and it would be a shame to lose it totally.   Final thought - if you are planning on omitting this 'overhead' Stardestroyer shot from 'Jedi', then I'd love to see the whole thing (approx. 18 seconds) used as an extended Fleet blockade shot instead, done to an extended 'Imperial March' cue at this point....  I'd be happy enough just to see the last 2 seconds of it even, though.

....we now see the 'Executor' too....                                                                                                                     

(Shots 7 and 8 show the LEFT-hand SIDE 'interior', belonging to the 'main' Stardestroyer seen in shots 5 and 6 -  done something like this, it would still seem to move slowly to the RIGHT of the frame, just like the existing 'Empire' shot seems to move slowly to the RIGHT, due to the 'Hoth Planet' element moving slowly to the LEFT)

 ....and a little more of the Fleet is revealed, as the 'Ion Cannon' is fired at the Stardestroyer that guards the 'Sector' where the first escaping Rebel Transport is heading towards, to escape....

 ....luckily, someone has a good aim, where this particular 'blockading' Stardestroyer is concerned....

 ....as this Stardestroyer has now been totally 'disabled', allowing a safe escape route in this 'Sector'....

(By the way, I liked doubleofive's suggestion of this 'escaping' Rebel Transport perhaps being seen to momentarily 'speed-up' and 'stretch' into a blurred 'Hyperspace jump' (like the ones seen in 'Jedi'), once it clears past the 'disabled' Stardestroyer, just before the very end of the scene in shot 13....which is just before the announcement of "The first transport is away", just as the remaining Rebel Troops and Snowspeeder Pilots, including Luke, prepare for the Imperial ground assault)

 ....the expected surface attack from several Stardestroyer-'deposited' AT-AT's (by way of 'carriers' I presume) finally ensues....and Luke and the Rebel troops battle valiantly....as the evacuation continues throughout the battle....  By the time the Imperial forces eventually overcome the Rebels, there is only one Rebel Transport left, that has still to escape.  Princess Leia eventually gives the command to evacuate the Rebel base totally, before Vader and his troops arrive just too late to stop Han, Leia, Chewbacca, and C3PO escaping from the base in the Millennium Falcon....which an embattled Luke sees disappearing upwards towards space, from a distance away....

 ....as Luke approaches his X-Wing, the last remaining Rebel Transport is already taking off, safely accompanied by a couple of other X-Wing Pilots.  There is only a handful of stragglers left now, who are all preparing to take off in their X-Wings too, and who all intend to meet up again at the designated 'rendezvous' destination....

The third post will follow shortly -

Adywan, here is the first of 5 posts, showing some possibilities....

In particular, I wanted to show one or two things which would offer an 'alternative' take on the following 4 shots.  Like most scenes in the Original Trilogy, we've seen these so many times now, that it's hard to imagine them altered a little.  However, it always seemed to me that there was something amiss about these 2 scenes, and it would be neat if you could add a little enhancement of some kind, to them.  

Personally, I was never too keen on this shot of the single Stardestroyer, as it seemed a little unconvincing due to it's unclear sense of scale, and 'dark greyness'....  Neither did it convey much of a sense of the 'Fleet', that was supposedly deployed in the vicinity of the Hoth Planet.  Also, things might have looked a little better if this 'dark grey' Stardestroyer had been swapped with the 'lighter' one seen underneath the 'Executor', earlier in the movie, where a darker, 'shadowed' one would have fitted in better there instead.  The other thing that always jarred, is the fact that once we see inside the Stardestroyer's 'interior' (shown in the next 2 shots), it seems to be 'moving past' the Planet in the wrong direction!

 In these first 2 shots (where the scene lasts approx. 2 seconds), we see that the Stardestroyer is slowly moving forwards a little, and seems to be either pointing directly at the Planet....or passing on the LEFT-hand side of it -

However, in these next 2 shots (where the scene lasts approx. 3 seconds), we suddenly cut to what seems to be a SIDE 'interior' of the Stardestroyer we've just seen (as evidenced by other Stardestroyer 'interior' scenes).  So if you look at it as being the LEFT-hand side 'interior, then due to the 'movement' of the Planet (which travels slowly to the LEFT), the Stardestroyer seems to pass on the RIGHT-hand side of it now....and if you look at it as being the RIGHT-hand side of the Stardestroyer, then it seems to be slowly going past the Planet backwards now! 

So, just as a bit of encouragement for you to add a little interest to these eventually, there's a possible 'variation' of these 2 scenes included in the 'MAIN' sequence of 48 shots (that I'll be putting up just after this one), followed by a couple of 'alternative' versions at the end, in what will be the fifth and final post. 

Although you'd need to check the actual footage of the scenes referred to, hopefully these shots convey some of the 'movement' of these possible 'additions'.  Although these 2 scenes are the ones I'd most like something done with, there are a couple of other possibilities concerning the 'Fleet' for you to consider along the way....   

(To describe these properly, required 'mock-ups'....so I'd like to express my grateful thanks to doubleofive for his much-appreciated efforts on my behalf, overcoming what were sometimes difficult-to-follow details from me, given over a series of long e-mails.  He put a lot of effort into getting everything just as I wanted, which was sometimes not straightforward, given the differences in PAL and NTSC timings we were dealing with) 

The second post will follow shortly -   

Okay Adywan, doubleofive, and others that may be interested. 

I'm ready to send the completed 5 consecutive posts, in a few moments, showing some ideas in 'mock-up' form, where some 'Imperial Fleet' shots are concerned.  They are reasonably small additions mainly, but there may be something that folks like in the way of changes to some of these scenes.  I'm quite certain that Adywan is going to give himself (and us) something fresh to look at in some of these altered shots, shown here, anyway.  I'm very much looking forward to whatever he finally produces, as I will be looking at his edit as my default version, if it's even half as good as ANH:R was.

Now hopefully, I'll do this right, as a bit of work went into all this.  With any luck, no-one will post in the next few minutes, till I get a chance to upload ALL 5 posts, one after the other.  There has been some glitches in getting these prepared on this forum, and I have no idea if it will cut off somewhere it shouldn't, or how it cuts off to go onto a 'fresh' page even.  Hopefully, it will all come out good enough to follow.... 

adywan said:

ImperialFighter said:

Something that I really liked about the actual 'STAR WARS' logo on ANH:R, was the slightly emboldened outline of the lettering.  It's a subtle thing, but makes it even better.

Not sure what you mean here because i didn't do anything to the logo exept use one from one of the other language versions due to a problem with the original lettering.

 

I remember noticing what I thought was a very slightly-'thicker' outline, when I first saw ANH:R.  I froze both yours and the SE version to check, some time later.  It's hard to notice when you watch them moving, as the SE version goes past so quick in comparison.  I originally thought it might be because yours recedes far slower (thankfully), but having looked again, I still reckon the one you used, is in fact ever so slightly, a more 'uniform' thickness overall, than the one that is on my english language version.  It seems that way to me anyway, but I could be imagining it.  Look at the likes of the SE's vertical outline of the left-side of the 'R' in 'WARS', for instance, if you get round to having a check.  It just seems that it is slightly 'skinnier' there, as well as in a couple of other places, than it is on the one you used.

Something that I really liked about the actual 'STAR WARS' logo on ANH:R, was the slightly emboldened outline of the lettering.  It's a subtle thing, but makes it even better.

PaulisDead2221 said:

2) The problem with the shot inside the executor is that it is a recycled shot from the opening scene to Return of the Jedi. It's just like--'what the hell?' I personally don't have much of a problem with the scenes of Vader's shuttle taking off, and traversing through space. I understand some people say it slows down the pacing of the escape of the Millenium Falcon, but I think it provides a little expansion to what everybody's doing at the moment.

I'd like the actual brief shot of Darth's Shuttle seen flying upwards toward the 'Executor' in distance, retained too.  The part where we see the Shuttle from behind anyway.  This is a really nice 'establishing' shot that occurs before the proper 'TIE / Millennium Falcon chase' gets properly underway, and in no way interferes with the 'pacing' of it....unlike the likes of the Shuttle actually docking, and Vader exiting it down the ramp.  Unless Adywan is choosing to use that particular 'Executor' element in his altered 'JEDI' opening, that is....

Ziz -  Nice work on that selection of Wampa shots from the SE and GOUT versions.

Darth Solo -  That was an interesting collection of behind-the-scenes shots of the 2nd original version ('man in a suit') 'lunging' Wampa.  I hadn't seen those before.  Hilarious.

That 'One-arm' link that was also recently put up, was interesting too.  Lots of neat Wampa artwork I'd never seen before.  Also, as far as the info. referring to the 2nd original 'lunging' version in the 'ice cave' as being a different, female Wampa, compared to the '1st one' first seen earlier in the movie....well, I'd never read that before either!  While the idea is 'plausible' enough, the question is whether that is a better idea than having it seem to be the same Wampa that Luke's dealing with throughout, or not....  Because the possibility it was a seperate, female Wampa was not something I remember thinking was obviously meant to be the case, during my many viewings of 'Empire', then I'm not so sure.

All I know is that there seems to be a lot of Wampa apples and Wampa oranges where various folks are concerned, myself included, and there are various ways this could go.  Pity someone, somewhere, messed up on the whole 'continuity' thing with this one....  I sure will be interested to see what Adywan's own final preferrence turns out to be, come the time.  Decisions, decisions....  :)

By the way, I think Adywan's revamped 'starfields' are excellent, and very 'Star Wars' as they are. 

Josh -  Soon.  There were some unforeseen problems/limitations with the site where some of these shots are concerned, and they 'cut off' after a certain amount in PMs.  As I can't risk the same happening with the final post onto the actual thread, I've had to spend more time putting them into sections, ready for posting one after the other. So time has been taken up trying to sort out this out seperately, and certain shots seemed to want to come out a different size or not at all.  After a bit of playing about, I've been able to get something like what was originally intended now, but it's now finding the time to finish up all the relevant comments in-between them, that is the latest hold-up.  All I can tell you is that I hope to have them up sometime during the next 3 days.

Re:the Wampa 'horns' -  There is no doubt that that the 1st original suit ('puppet') has it's horns in place under all that fur, and there is what looks like the gnarly, cut-off 'stump' of one of them sticking out, that is easily seen too, when you study a screenshot.  And this version of the Wampa looks great.  Unfortunately, the 2nd original suit ('man inside') version, where it 'lunges' towards us in the cave, has a totally different look to both it facial features, it's ears, and the shape of it's horns.  It is a very different design to the 'puppet' version.  The ears on the 'puppet' are noticeable in it's second brief appearance with Luke and the Taun-Taun, but they are more discrete, and don't 'stick up' so prominently on the very top of it's head, as the ones on the 2nd version do.  The 'horns' on this 2nd one are very smooth, and stick out a lot at the side of it, compared to where the ones on the 1st version seem to be, had they not been covered in fur.  It is a very brief shot, at the end of the day, but the differences are there.  The SE version that is being dropped by Adywan, was very different again, but I preferred the look of the horns on that one, compared to the 2nd original ('man in suit') one.  The question is whether Adywan tries to match the 2 remaining designs a little, or not, and if he does, does he match the look of the 'horns' on the 1st one, or the 2nd one, or even the SE one...  There is no right way or wrong way at the end of the day, but if Adywan doesn't add the hint of a 'second' Wampa in the cave, then it would be nice for these 2 versions to better match a little.  If he leaves them both different, and doesn't try to match them, then that's okay too, as it's not straight-forward. 

Very quickly before I have to leave for today -  this idea of 'different' Wampas sounds plausable enough when it's scrutinized here, but I myself never thought about all that on my first few viewings of the movie, and I'm not sure most others who saw it, did either, and the same goes for most who will see it for the first time in the future.  As it seemed to me at the time (and still is, I must say), that there was only one single Wampa involved, it has always 'jarred' that the appearance isn't the same, either during the original, nor in the SE version.  If this idea of different Wampa's is followed, then I'd rather just see the 1st appearance left alone altogether, to fully distinguish it from the 'other one' (presumably the 2nd original suit, with the smooth, sticking out horns and pointed ears), who's facial features don't even match at the end of the day.  However, in that event, it would be good if we could get the subtle 'glimpse' of a 'second one' in the cave, to really sell that idea then. 

Adywan -  Can you take the time to have a quick refresh of all the shots and comments on page 62, and rather than have the ears 'sticking up' so pointedly as seen in the 'lunging' 2nd original suit.... consider having them protrude no more than is seen in the third shot down there, where the second glimpse of the 1st original suit ('puppet') is pictured.  Whatever you decide will be fine, as it's definately a tricky one overall.

Adywan - It was really nice to see that you added 'horns' to the 1st 'original' Wampa suit scenes near the beginning, to tie it in better with when we see it in the 'ice cave' scene.  However, I see that there is a bit of doubt over them so far.  As this is one of the touches that I personally hoped to see included, I'd like to offer a last suggestion on this aspect -  Firstly, as we have seen these shots so many times over the years, every addition is going to pop out at first.  However, I always wished that the various 'looks' of the Wampa had been more uniform overall.  As far as your added 'horns' on this preview go, I think you could amend them a little, so that they are even better.  What I think could improve them, is if you did the more rounded, more tapered, and more 'gnarly' ones that seem to start quite thickly, higher up on the sides of the Wampa's head, that were seen on the SE suit version.  The ones that you presently have, reminded me immediately of the shape of the 2nd 'original' Wampa suit, as seen 'lunging' at Luke, just before he cuts it's arm off.  I always thought that was the least- successful looking version of the suit, and the horns, along with it's 'sticking up' ears....  I see that in the initial reveal of the Wampa, that you have indeed added the other ear, so that it protrudes noticeably, just like the 2nd 'original' suit....but I think this is not as good a look as where we see LESS of the ears in the 1st 'original' suit, and that they look better half-glimpsed, and closer to the fur....as seen even in the SE version of the suit.

If you refer back to page 62, to my post third from the top, there are some amended comments about all this, along with the relevant screenshots that show at a glance, what I'm getting at.  It's not a big issue, but I'd be sorry to see nothing added here.  See what you think. 

ladyferry -  Thanks very much for your link.  Adywan's preview looks great.  Lots of great subtle touches already, and one that I notice now, is how the Hoth Planet 'rotates' a little, as the Probe closes in.  The 'rotation' of Tattooine Planet as the Falcon escaped from Mos Eisley was a big hit with me on his ANH:R!

doubleofive and Adywan - I'm having to do some rearranging of the screenshots due to some unforeseen software/'coding' issues on some.  Nothing that can't be overcome, but it's taking up a little more time I don't have enough of at present.  Soon enough though.  

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

Doubleofive & ImperialFighter, how are the pics coming along?

 

The pics are uploaded and ready; ImperialFighter is currently trying to find time to write out his descriptions around them and post them, hopefully tomorrow sometime.

It's out of my hands at this point.  I'm nervous for it...

Darth Solo -  This is another fine mess I've gotten myself into....  ;)

Okay, just to update -  doubleofive's fine work is indeed recently done.  However, we did a 'test' with a PM, and found that the whole sequence of 63 shots would not 'post' all in one go....  So, since I have a lot of comments to write up in-between some of these shots, and I don't want it to 'cut off' at some unknown point, I'm having to prepare it seperately into the 5 different 'posts' that we worked out would look best, ready for consecutive sending, one after the other, once they are ready.  I don't want to rush this at the last hurdle after all of doubleofive's great efforts, and am currently trying to find the time needed to properly finish all my points in-between some of the scenes involved.  Unfortunately, I can't guarantee just how soon that will be, but it will be soon.  And I'm very pleased with how doubleofive's 'mock-ups' have come out.  Oh, and I'm not nervous....no, not me....er....no....not one bit.... 

Ahem, I'll try a third time to get this right - GoodMusician's 'ideas summary' thread is actually called Adywan's ESB edit: Suggestion Terminal  Thankyou.  Apologies for mis-naming that twice.

satanika - That was some 'interesting' imagery too, lol. 

I'm looking forward to Adywan's more subtle touch on this thing.  ;)

Fjodin -  Thanks for that video clip link featuring some cut-scenes from the 90's X-wing pc game.  I hadn't seen that footage before, and it was interesting to see some of the imagery in that.

GoodMusician - apologies, I got the title of your related 'ideas compilation' thread wrong recently.  It is of course called Adywan's ESB edit: Summary Terminal

And a fine job you did too by the look of things doubleofive.  It's like magic I tells ya....  :)

Let me just try this other one again....and I'll send that e-mail before I hit the sack for the night.

EDIT: Thanks doubleofive.  I could do this all night, lol....

Everyone's a critic....  ;)