ImperialFighter

Monroville said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I think the most that needs to be done is adding in a couple shots of AT-STs going ahead of the AT-ATs to take care of the Rebels in trenches.  I've always wondered why they didn't do that - send the smaller AT-STs ahead to make way for the big AT-ATs.

SImple: budget. George and company no doubt wanted to do more, but being 1980 and the limits on technology and what money they had to spend, could only offer what we see.  That doesn't mean anybody should overload the film with anything, but let's all remember the whole point of the SEs to begin with was Lucas' attempt to bring them "up to date".

 

 On the other hand, those suggested foremost AT-ST's still weren't added to the later SE versions.  Perhaps because that was never an option, because they would detract from the reveal of the wonderful scale of the more gigantic AT-AT designs?  ...and because the AT-AT's themselves were not exactly thought to have needed the smaller AT-ST's to clear a way for them, since they were considered to be mostly impervious to the Rebel's firepower, and pretty overpowering themselves.

Darth Mallwalker said:

ImperialFighter said:

 someone to DL some copies in the U.K. 

 

Language barrier I guess, but I'm not sure what you mean by "DL" ?

It's a single layer disc.

And anyone, UK or not, can download the copy Moth3r posted. I've now finished DL'ing it -- caligula still want a copy ?

Ah, I've misunderstood.  I thought Jambe meant he was looking for someone to do some Dual Layer copies of a PAL version of this to PIF onwards to members in the U.K., when he asked for someone to circulate copies here.  

I also didn't realise this is only a single layer release.  Thanks for confirming that.

ImperialFighter said:

 First, an admission! -  In hindsight, my wish above to still have Adywan's enhanced reveal shot of nine AT-AT's on show at the beginning was just plain wrong!....because the shot does not fit in as comfortably as I first thought, after all.  

On checking out the whole scene a couple of times since then, it actually doesn't make sense to include it anymore, if Ady has indeed decided not to include any extra additional AT-AT's throughout the whole battle now.  The fact is that we only see two AT-AT's destroyed, and only see three (including General Veer's one) survive the snowspeeder / Luke Skywalker onslaught throughout, with what does indeed seem like only a sum total of five AT-AT's (not counting the AT-ST) onscreen during the scenes on show. 

Therefore, I now hope Ady just uses the original, unenhanced shot of only five AT-AT's coming over the ridge at the start, if he is leaving the actual numbers during the battle as they are. (I've really come round to the removal of the 'red' window glow now, as it seems be too big for the narrow slit of the front AT-AT it was placed on anyway!)  

Personally, I'm more than okay with his latest decision not to add more AT-AT's, as the actual imagery already looks great in the main, and it's a huge ask to expect the work that extra numbers would involve at the end of the day.  Anyway, as Luke comments at one point "That armour's too strong for blasters"-  which indicates the AT-AT's are thought to be mostly impervious to the likes of Rebel snowspeeder fire-power, so the Empire could be confident that five of them (plus an AT-ST) is more than sufficient to reach the Power Generator. 

And on the other hand, more could have been planned (or have been in transit) to be sent down also, in an unseen-by-us 'follow-up wave' to support this first batch at the end of the day, since General Veers tells Vader's hologram "Yes Lord Vader, I've reached the main Power Generators.  The Shield will be down in moments, you may start your landing." 

We didn't see if he came in another AT-AT or 'something else' at the end of the day, since the ground battle cuts to different scenes involving our heroes in-between when that line is said, and when the eventual storming of the Rebel base by Vader and some Imperial Snowtroopers is shown. 

For anyone concerned that there would have been more AT-AT numbers dropped down, it is possible that they arrived from a different direction / or directions to the oncoming 5 AT-AT's we see onscreen.  The Rebel base is actually quite big and cavernous overall, with various potential escape routes, so 'another wave / or other waves' from the many Stardestroyers could conceivably have been dropped 'beyond' the Energy Shield to approach the base from another direction / or other directions too, and we just weren't shown that one / or those ones! 

On the other hand, after General Veers line, Vader and his troops could simply just have arrived in 'something else' from the same direction as the 5 onscreen AT-AT's, during the time when our attention was following the in-between scenes where we followed our heroe's progress before the base was stormed....  Take your pick.  Either way, I hope that helps. 

Regardless, there's no doubt that Adywan will add a lot of little bells and whistles and improvements throughout the existing footage, which will indeed add to the overall 'intensity' of the battle, and that it will end up looking better.  :)

As far as extra AT-ST's go, if he wants to do that, then fine, but the one we see doesn't appear until a good bit later in the battle anyway, suggesting that it might have just been 'dropped off' further back than the rest, and has only caught up now with it's faster moving steps...  Just another thought.  

Hope everyone had a good time last night.  :)

I just wanted to elaborate on a couple of things I wrote in yesterday's post on the previous page.  It only occurred to me just afterwards, but I'd hit the booze by then...  Thankfully, I'm pretty hangover-free today after it all, so thought I'd add those extra thoughts to my post.

I've highlighted the relevant new additions above in bold.  See what you think.

ImperialFighter said:

adywan said: 

Getting back to ESB, i have been looking at the new Hoth battle footage and i'm really not too sure if adding more AT-AT's is the way to go. I've been thinking and i think that the original amount is perfect. Having just a few AT-At's kick the rebels ass really shows the might of the empire. Adding more in was really just a bit of fanwank really if you think about it. Its something that goes under the category "adding it because we can". It really adds nothing. I will be making the battle more intense but not with extra AT-ATs.

However, although the Hoth ground battle is already great in many ways admittedly, I cannot wait for any little enhancements along the way that you are doing (i.e.- the improved laserblasts, firing Rebel turrets etc.).  There will be other changes no doubt, but having more actual AT-AT's on show is not such a big thing if you decide against it.  Just a thought though, does this mean that you are still initially showing the few extra ones in the initial shot as they come over the ridge, that you already completed?  I hope so, as I think that extra number that you show at the beginning, can easily tie-in with the rest of the existing AT-AT footage as is, quite comfortably.  

Just a quick check-in before some serious Hogmanay shenanigans kick in here...  :)

First, an admission! -  In hindsight, my wish above (in bold) to still have Adywan's enhanced reveal shot of nine AT-AT's on show at the beginning was just plain wrong!....because the shot does not fit in as comfortably as I first thought, after all.  

On checking out the whole scene a couple of times since then, it actually doesn't make sense to include it anymore, if Ady has indeed decided not to include any extra additional AT-AT's throughout the whole battle now.  The fact is that we only see two AT-AT's destroyed, and only see three (including General Veer's one) survive the snowspeeder / Luke Skywalker onslaught throughout, with what does indeed seem like only a sum total of five AT-AT's (not counting the AT-ST) onscreen during the scenes on show. 

Therefore, I now hope Ady just uses the original, unenhanced shot of only five AT-AT's coming over the ridge at the start, if he is leaving the actual numbers during the battle as they are. (I've really come round to the removal of the 'red' window glow now, as it seems be too big for the narrow slit of the front AT-AT it was placed on anyway!)  

Personally, I'm more than okay with his latest decision not to add more AT-AT's, as the actual imagery already looks great in the main, and it's a huge ask to expect the work that extra numbers would involve at the end of the day.  Anyway, as Luke comments at one point "That armour's too strong for blasters"-  which indicates the AT-AT's are thought to be mostly impervious to the likes of Rebel snowspeeder fire-power, so the Empire could be confident that five of them (plus an AT-ST) is more than sufficient to reach the Power Generator. 

And on the other hand, more could have been planned (or have been in transit) to be sent down also, in an unseen-by-us 'follow-up wave' to support this first batch at the end of the day, since General Veers tells Vader's hologram "Yes Lord Vader, I've reached the main Power Generators.  The Shield will be down in moments, you may start your landing." 

We didn't see if he came in another AT-AT or 'something else' at the end of the day, since the ground battle cuts to different scenes involving our heroes in-between when that line is said, and when the eventual storming of the Rebel base by Vader and some Imperial Snowtroopers is shown. 

For anyone concerned that there would have been more AT-AT numbers dropped down, it is possible that they arrived from a different direction to the oncoming 5 AT-AT's we see onscreen.  The Rebel base is actually quite big and cavernous overall, with various potential escape routes, so 'another / or other waves' from the many Stardestroyers could conceivably have been dropped 'beyond' the Energy Shield to approach the base from another direction / or other directions too, and we just weren't shown that one / or those ones! 

On the other hand, after General Veers line, Vader and his troops could simply just have arrived in 'something else' from the same direction as the 5 onscreen AT-AT's, when our attention was following the in-between scenes where we followed our heroe's progress, before the base was stormed....  Take your pick.  Either way, I hope that helps.

Regardless, there's no doubt that Adywan will add a lot of little bells and whistles and improvements throughout the existing footage, which will indeed add to the overall 'intensity' of the battle, and that it will end up looking better.  :)

As far as extra AT-ST's go, if he wants to do that, then fine, but the one we see doesn't appear until a good bit later in the battle anyway, suggesting that it might have just been 'dropped off' further back than the rest, and has only caught up now with it's faster moving steps...  Just another thought. 

As far as those interior shots of the AT-AT drivers go, I'm now 100% sure that they are all meant to be inside General Veers AT-AT!  They are certainly edited together that way, being immediately cut next to close-ups of General Veers.  If there had been some kind of shot between the differing helmet colours, then it could be argued that they are meant to be different AT-AT interiors, but the way things stand, they only come across as being General Veer's drivers to me, whether that was the intention or not....  Still would love consistency with all-RED markings, but will just be happy with any consistency if Adywan decides to take the easier route of just removing them.

It only remains for me to wish you all a very Happy Year again, and 'may yer lum aye reek' as we say here in Scotland.  Slange!  :)

Yes doubleofive, he was criminally mis-used overall in JEDI.  It will be interesting to see what everyone says about Boba's inclusion or otherwise when it comes nearer the time, and especially interesting to see what Adywan eventually decides on.

I can go either way with it at this point, but if he's totally removed, it would mean losing some neat footage of Boba's abilities where his jetpack and attachments are concerned.

Time will tell.

In the meantime, let me wish you and everyone else a very Happy New Year.  I look forward to many other good suggestions here in the future. :)

adywan said: 

Getting back to ESB, i have been looking at the new Hoth battle footage and i'm really not too sure if adding more AT-AT's is the way to go. I've been thinking and i think that the original amount is perfect. Having just a few AT-At's kick the rebels ass really shows the might of the empire. Adding more in was really just a bit of fanwank really if you think about it. Its something that goes under the category "adding it because we can". It really adds nothing. I will be making the battle more intense but not with extra AT-ATs.

As in your previous ANH:R, whatever you decide to add, or not add, is up to you, and I bow to your chosen path regardless.  Hell, anything ontop of your great re-colouration is a bonus for us anyway!

All I know is that I am a huge fan of the likes of your added ANH:R Death Star 'reveal' additions / End Battle additions which made an already great film even better.

However, although the Hoth ground battle is already great in many ways admittedly, I cannot wait for any little enhancements along the way that you are doing (i.e.- the improved laserblasts, firing Rebel turrets etc.).  There will be other changes no doubt, but having more actual AT-AT's on show is not such a big thing if you decide against it.  Just a thought though, does this mean that you are still initially showing the few extra ones in the initial shot as they come over the ridge, that you already completed?  I hope so, as I think that extra number that you show at the beginning, can easily tie-in with the rest of the existing AT-AT footage as is, quite comfortably.

Anyway, I hope to suggest a couple of things that could improve the existing footage in a few days time, that doesn't require any additional added AT-AT's.  In the meantime, let me wish you all a very Happy New Year.  Be back after the hangover!  :)   

Sevb32 said:

I think we need to think twice about changing those AT-AT driver's hemets, look at this http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/original%20atat%20helmet.htm

StarWarsHelmets.com eh?  Nice little site there Sevb32.

I always used to think that all those 'interior' shots of the AT-AT drivers were meant to be inside the General Veers AT-AT, and thought that the 'missing' red stripes on the helmets were a continuity mistake.

If they are indeed meant to show seperate interiors / AT-AT drivers, then my previous hope for red stripes to be added also is not in any way necessary now...just still preferable to me.

doubleofive said:

Really, we should take this back to the ESB/RotJ Wishlist thread.

I agree, and added my own two cents there on this one.

MCBarkingSpoon -   As far as everyone's suggestions go, it's good to hear everyone's ideas, no matter how outlandish some may seem (even some of mine!).  I'd like to think that Adywan welcomes this approach, and don't think we have to worry about him being influenced to do anything he himself doesn't like.   

A very interesting comment Adywan has just recently made on his EMPIRE:R thread is this -

The whole skiff battle will have some re-edits done to it, and I want to change Boba's death if I actually keep him in the movie, but using Jango for footage just isn't an option.

Without Ady having to elaborate on his JEDI:R edit too much at this point, with this open-ended acknowledgement, it seems he plans to do something to change the existing scene. 

While I'm not sure yet if I prefer the idea of no Boba in JEDI, as opposed to a better-edited version which includes him (i.e. perhaps without the ridiculous screaming and less 'flailing' arms and legs when his jetpack is set off by Han, and without a 'burping' Sarlacc), I'm just pleased at this point that Adywan will be improving things somewhat from the way things currently are, no matter what he prefers to do.

Personally, I always wished that the great character of Boba Fett had originally been given some sort of possible reprieve in JEDI, and would have liked him not to be shown to fall into the Sarlacc's mouth at all after he crashed into the side of Jabba's Sail Barge (or at least have exited thanks to his jetpack just after), but had instead been then glimpsed being caught up somewhat in the Barge explosion blast as our heroes escape on their skiff...with a question mark about whether he may have barely survived (although taking a good blast) by flying outwards just in time...     

Jambe Davdar said:

HI folks,

I've just dug out my Miami film festival version of Returning to Jedi.  There are some corrections and changes as well as a little additional footage that surfaced since the original release.

Anyone in the UK will to receive this disc and get copies circulating??

Thanks

JD

Hi Jambe, did you get organised with someone to DL some copies in the U.K. yet?  I'd sent you a P.M. a while back.

There have been some great suggestions by some members on this thread over the past months, and Adywan has done some tremendous work to look forward to.  I hope to have a few more things yet un-mentioned, especially concerning the 'Hoth ground battle', for Adywan to think about or shoot down, in the near future. 

In the meantime, I'd just like to wish everyone on the site, and this thread in particular, a very Happy Christmas and great New Year! 

Adywan -  Since you confirmed recently that you would be adding a subtle 'lens flare' or two into this edit too, I seem to study every one I see on t.v. now!

Anyway, I don't expect you to give away where you will eventually put them, but I thought this particular shot with Han waving, that is the culmination of the snowspeeder search, would benefit nicely from a long thin one perhaps.  Having said that, this is a static 'fixed camera' shot, and I don't know if you only want to add 'moving' ones to 'moving camera' shots, or not. 

Just a thought, as I always wished this particular shot was enhanced by something a little, even the hint of the snowspeeder's shadow just before the 'wipe' into the next scene perhaps.

By the way, if you can catch it tonight, or record it by any chance, there is the final part of a program called 'Catastrophe' on Channel 4 at 9p.m. which has been littered with some great and varied examples of 'lens flares' throughout the run.  And it's been a very interesting program to boot. 

Serji-X Arrogantus said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned and I'm not going through 186 other pages to find out.

 

The AT-AT pilots have a red stripe down the back of their helmets towards the end of the Walker Battle.

 

Yeah, that's definately been previously flagged up, but I don't know what page.  I don't think Adywan confirmed if he was going to add or remove them, so that the shots are consistent.  I hope he adds, as I really like that extra colour in those shots.

Please, no messing around with the Asteroid Worm's dentures....  But yes, John Carpenter's 'The Thing' is awesome stuff still.  :) 

I didn't mean to sound so harsh there BarBar, lol.

I do know what you're getting at, but I've always liked to think that although Han realised that there was something amiss, Leia (who said the line) had never encountered such an entity as this in her experience before, and simply didn't really register / comprehend that those were actual gigantic teeth in the distance, of some monstrous worm they were now inside of, rather than just the asteroid cave they initially entered....

Hope that helps a little.  I'd rather keep the teeth though, than have a 'gumsy' worm, regardless of that line.    

BarBar Jinkx said:

in regards to that Worm 

 

is there any way to get rid of the teeth?

 

 *cough* splutter* are you mad? 

Matt_Kenobi said:

On a totally unrelated topic, that's a bad matte line around the MF in the above pic.  Also, why is the MF's engine white, and the stars blue?

Probably because they didn't have Adywan on the case.  This shot will no doubt look terrific in his Empire:R edit!

Monroville said:

  For example: every so often the ears on a pig or cow will twitch or wiggle rapidly for a second or two.  You could even have the ears prick up right before or during the Taun-Taun acting up as it hears and smells the Wampa approaching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMcbtmfDrVs

 

 Hopefully Ady can successfully add even some slight movement to the proceedings, but it's no biggie if not.

In the meantime, I WANT A 'FAINTING' GOAT!!  :)

adywan said:

Giving the Taun Tauns ears movement could well be an impossible task and keep it looking real at the same time. I'll give it a go but i'm not promising anything

 

 Thanks.  I don't know, just the odd 'flick' or something perhaps.  If it works, it works.  They already look improved with your re-colouring alone!

Anyway, I've got several Hoth ground battle 'issues'/ 'flaws' that I've been keeping my powder dry for, since a while now, and will go through them here in a few days, with some potential improvements/fixes for you to consider.

Just while there's a pic here to remind me though, something I meant to previously suggest was if you would think about adding a little movement to the ears on the TaunTaun 'props'.

There seems to be some ear movements noticable on Han's stop-motion TaunTaun shots, especially just after Han has dismounted to scan for Luke.  I know you are including some small tweaks to the likes of the 'eye-blinks' on the 'full-size' props, but perhaps you could consider also giving the ears a little hint of 'movement' as well, if it's possible.   I reckon this could really bring them to life a bit more, if you are able to.

adywan said:

Adding red windows to the AT-Ats would mean that i would have to tint the insides red and fake lighting looks just that.. fake, and i am not prepared to do that, especially when it doesn't need to be done.

One thing you have to remember is that i am not a miracle worker. I can only work with what footage i have available.

This is a couple of days behind, but I just checked in to find you've given us all another clip ontop of the excellent 'Luke approaching Dagobah' one!

Adywan - I am one of those who really liked that red-lit, leading AT-AT, as it initially came over the rise, as I always reckoned that it gave it a menacing look....  I always used to wish that all the window 'slits' on every AT-AT shown in the battle had been given the same red-lit treatment (including the one that delivers Luke to Vader in 'JEDI').

Anyway, I just wanted to say that from what I've seen in your latest 1 min. clip of the Hoth ground battle....that losing the red-slit look in that shot is a very small price to pay for all your added AT-ATs, snowspeeders, lasers etc., and general extra oomph to the overall battle, which is looking fabulous!  :)

Oh, and you are wrong....you ARE  a miracle worker on this thing.

HotRod said:

 I'm going to miss that 'white blob'. It's been part of my life for 28 years.

 

RIP White blob!

 

Yes HotRod, it's a shame, but it had to go.  I've no doubt that George will definately be keeping it, and showing it in all it's High Definition glory in his next version though, lol.  ;)

ladyferry - thanks for that.  :)

adywan said:

Ok here's a very short clip of the approach to dagobah. Again its a split screen but this time it is a completed scene with tweaked FX, and an attempt to sort out the horrible re-colour job ILM did on R2's dome.

APPROACHING DAGOBAH -XVID - 16mb approx

Awesome stuff once again, and a huge improvement on the 2004 release.  You are doing incredible work. 

And on top of the excellent blue MF engine glow, new starfields and atmosphere, and R2 panel re-colouring....you've gotten rid of that bloody annoying 'white blob' that mysteriously appears at the end of the cave shot!  Brilliant.  :)

ladyferry -  Any chance of adding this to your YouTube collection too, sometime? 

New to this thread, but this seems to be a tremendous edit of an old favourite of mine.  :)

Would some kind soul be willing to PIF me a copy at all?  I'm able to PIF onwards.  If so, just PM me for details.  I'm based in U.K. by the way.  Many thanks. 

Agreed, that cover by Owen-Lars-Kenobi is really good and should definately go on Fanedit.org 

DarthBo said:

adywan said:

No, no. The last shot is one that i want to get rid of. The wampa in that shot looks too cutesy. The model, if i even make it, will be closer to the first shot & the SE Wampa

That is good news!

Thank the Maker!  This just gets better and better.  Cheers for clarifying this one Adywan, as I've personally really disliked this particular Wampa design (even though it's very brief) over the years, especially it's overly 'sticky-up' ears and 'smooth' horns (seen more clearly here), compared to it's first appearance -

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/wampa4.jpg

I'm sure that whatever combination of looks you eventually decide on with the remaining designs, will turn out great.  I'd rather a curmudgeonly Wampa with 'gnarly'-horns (if shown) over the one in the above shot any day. -

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/1172961332_c2753f6a75_o.jpg

http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/starwars/images/gallery/u07l6s6.jpg

http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-content/uploads/250px-wampa.jpg

http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-content/uploads/wampa-catalog4.jpg

http://starwars.carrotnetwork.com/reviews/2003/deluxe/wampa/04.jpg

http://defectiveyeti.com/images/wampa1.jpg

Lots of interesting updates from you recently Adywan. 

Although you posted that any new Wampa head model (!) would be shot in the same way as the original's first appearance (seen here at top), I get the feeling that you might be considering copying the whole look of the last original appearance (seen here at bottom).

I'd like to agree with those who seem to far prefer the look of the first appearance Wampa, rather than the brief one with the sticky-up ears and the smooth-looking, wide horns of the last appearance.

If you do a first appearance with horns, I hope you will consider using the excellent-looking first design with another go at added horns by you, rather than copying the last design.