ImperialFighter

doubleofive said:

ImperialFighter said:

I just wish we'd got slightly more 'Vader in suit' action by the end of the third one, but George just didn't write it that way at the time, unfortunately.  Instead of the 'fade-out' as he (badly) screamed out "Noooooooooooo!", I'd have like to have seen him say, 'force throw' even the Emperor near him against the wall, and then have the injured Emperor put his hand up quickly, while telling Vader "WAIT!...."

 

Do Jedi call their attacks like anime ninja? ;-P

 

Ha ha, nice one!  :) 

It was meant to have read - ....I'd have liked to have seen him 'force throw' even the Emperor near him, against the wall....

BarBar Jinkx said:

For me the scene where Vader is being "put back together" on the table & he is knocking away the med droids bugs the sith out of me 

if the audio of his perfectly healthy moans of pain was replaced with that of a person barely able to breath it would be enough for me (I will mention this in the future when Ady gets around to doing Ep III) what do you guys think?

 sorry for the off topic post but this has bugged me since I saw the movie in the cinema

TMBTM mentioned 'wheezing' something like this on page 10 of 'The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread', and I like this thought.

I just wish we'd got slightly more 'Vader in suit' action by the end of the third one, but George just didn't write it that way at the time, unfortunately.  Instead of the 'fade-out' as he (badly) screamed out "Noooooooooooo!", I'd have liked to have seen him say, 'force throw' even the Emperor near him against the wall, and then have the injured Emperor put his hand up quickly, while telling Vader "WAIT!...."

jones1899 said:

Surely you understand the difference between somebody who takes a crash course in such software as opposed to the quality you get from an experienced professional. No edit is worth doing unless it is entirely seamless. 

I have to agree with this too, when it comes to re-watching an edit you love.  The first time's fine for the curiousity value, but it's just plain distracting if it's riddled with bad edits throughout.  There is a certain fan edit (which shall remain nameless) of a sorely disappointing movie, that has some fantastic editing ideas / choices throughout.

Unfortunately, although this edit improved on the poorer original version immensely, I just can't watch it again now, nor recommend it to others, since it has been badly cut too many times between the scenes, giving lots of 'pops' and 'clicks', and abruptly interrupted  sound / sound fx etc.  throughout.

I do believe that Indy 4 can be tweaked to be a far more enjoyable watch by some of the guys here, and I just hope someone with some decent editing skills / programs does work on it.

Oh, and doubleofive, I haven't even bought it yet either, since I was so under-whelmed at the time I saw it in the cinema!  You made a good point there, by the way.  However, I intend to now, to see some of the ideas that have been thrown about here so far, and in the hope there is a decent edit by someone one day.... :)

Baronlando said:

It seems like Lucas really doesn't feel like paying for the 3D thing until it becomes more cheap and commonplace.

I just started a topic thread that has a link with some interesting info. on how 3D is currently moving along on the 'movie' front.  It might be relevant to what George's current plans for his saga in this format are going to be. 

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/3D-Star-Wars-for-the-masses-anytime-soon/topic/10070/

The eventual 'Blu-rays' of the saga will be nice and all that (although I get the feeling that I'm going to still prefer Adywan's eventual 'Revisited' versions....), but I'm really looking forward to the possibility of seeing a 3D theatrical release of the Star Wars movies in my lifetime too.

The new-fangled 'conversion' process of turning existing 2D movies into 3D ones, that George has done tests with, is already successfully being used on other movies. 

Anyway, what with 'Avatar' and many other potential 3D blockbusters in the pipeline, I thought I'd ask what others here happen to think of a new generation (as well as themselves!) being exposed to a 3D version of the saga back on the 'big screen' eventually....

Heres a couple of interesting links by the way.  First, a recent story on 3D movie development -  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/business/media/12film.html?_r=2

and this great site on various 3D developments in general (warning: quite a few AVATAR 'spoilers' here) -  http://marketsaw.blogspot.com 

DarthBo said:

I was just under the impression (or hoping) that the transformation would be cut, so I could watch the saga in chronological order without knowing for sure who Vader is until episode V.

Wow, I don't remember reading that anywhere!  I'd hope to see the 'transformation' into the suit in some sort of 'Adywaned' way....

Edit: Although if that's what's been decided, then I see how that could also work.  I just like the imagery of the scene I suppose (apart from the current exaggerated "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"), and I've been used to always recommending 'newbies' to the saga, to watch the OT first anyway, in the order they were first released theatrically.... 

I hope to be able to revise this advice, one day, when Adywan has done his stuff to it all.  :)  

Surely we'd still be seeing the 'transformation' in some sort of manner by the end of Episode III, Darthbo?  So we'd certainly know this by that point in the saga, no matter how much Adywan changes things.  Or am I misunderstanding what you mean?

Edit: I think I did misunderstand, lol.

DF Shadow said:

If I remember correctly in the SE DVD the consistency of the millennium falcon when entering cloud city is off. The falcon is thinner in the the new CG shots and thicker in the old shots. I think this is most obvious when it lands on the platform.

Once the ship has docked it's back to it's usual thickness.

 

Something to look at AdY?

I'd forgotten about this one.  I seem to remember thinking that too, when I saw the new SE footage where it's being escorted by the 'twin-pods' towards the landing platform.  The new MF looked a bit 'flattened' in that shot, for some reason.

And you're right about the 'transparency' issues throughout this thing doubleofive, some of it seems very evident at times.  Were now beginning to 'see through' a lot of the work that was done by LFL for these 2004 SEs, I think.  ;)    I've got all your latest shots through now, thanks. 

I'm happy to accept that title graciously, where these OT edits are concerned, lol. 

ImperialFighter said:

Monroville said:

The shots are correct, it just seems that the bridge shot needs to be flipped.  If you notice right after the bridge shot, Needa's SD (the one in the middle) is making evasive manuevering and heading downwards, while the SD on the left (and his right) is heading upwards so that they will miss each other.  Regardless, the SD that is about to hit Needa is on Needa's right, not left.

 Yes, I reckon now that the single Stardestroyer could have just 'veered' towards the one on it's RIGHT-hand side in the intervening cut (although it seems to have done it rather quickly!), and I'm agreeing that the 'interior' shot would be the easiest to 'flip' or alter.  You are right that it does indeed seem that the single Stardestroyer is slightly lower than the other 2, as it first approaches, and the Millennium Falcon initially dives downwards.

Screenshots will be helpful for this one.

 

Monroville, having had a proper look at this whole sequence now, there are a few comments I'd like to make on it all, and so I'm going to ask doubleofive to give me the specific shots I need, when he can. 

But just to say for now, that I now think we were both wrong, and that the 'interior' shot of Captain Needa's Stardestroyer 'Avenger' is probably okay the way round it is currently, and doesn't need 'flipping' after all....  I'll explain why eventually, as well as suggesting a couple of 'alternative' tweaks that would also work, where that particular moment is concerned. 

Joshua_Blue, I always look on it as Vader merely 'swiping' at Luke just enough to 'unbalance' him, and make him have to move backwards a little, so that he'll fall into the carbon freeze opening....which he does.

ImperialFighter said:

Just a tiny, somewhat insignificant thing in the scheme of things really, but on the SE's the very front of the 'prongs' of the Millennium Falcon seemed a little dodgy the way they were matted against the large asteroid that enters the left of the frame as it passes against it in the 'side-on' banking shot....as is the actual cockpit too, when seen against this big asteroid.  Any chance of a tidy-up Ady?  It's so brief, it's only noticeable with 'freeze-framing', so no biggie though. 

Just ignore this recent particular comment please, as it really is a nit-pick TOO far, lol.   

Monroville said:

The shots are correct, it just seems that the bridge shot needs to be flipped.  If you notice right after the bridge shot, Needa's SD (the one in the middle) is making evasive manuevering and heading downwards, while the SD on the left (and his right) is heading upwards so that they will miss each other.  Regardless, the SD that is about to hit Needa is on Needa's right, not left.

Yes, I reckon now that the single Stardestroyer could have just 'veered' towards the one on it's RIGHT-hand side in the intervening cut (although it seems to have done it rather quickly!), and I'm agreeing that the 'interior' shot would be the easiest to 'flip' or alter.  You are right that it does indeed seem that the single Stardestroyer is slightly lower than the other 2, as it first approaches, and the Millennium Falcon initially dives downwards.

Screenshots will be helpful for this one.

Monroville said:

re: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTp8mKFxmbg&feature=PlayList&p=4DB0EA9A58709519&index=34
from 0:30 to 0:45.

I know Needa's SD is the one in the middle, and that he has one SD on either side, but when you see the bridge shot at 0:36, should the shot be flipped (being that the SD that's closest to him is the one on his right side, not left)?

Going from our viewpoint as the audience, Needa is heading north and the other 2 SDs are going south (sounds kinda dirty...).  Going by the position of the bridge, also facing north, the SD on the left side (just about touching Needa's SD) would be on Needa's right side.

Could anyone post some screen captures?

Monroville's absolutely right that there is something off, here.... 

We initially see the single Stardestroyer about to go in-between the middle of two oncoming Stardestroyers, just as the Millennium Falcon first dives downwards, followed by the Ties.  It could be argued that the single Stardestroyer looks like it is positioned roughly equal distance in the middle of the other oncoming 2, in this shot.  

However, in the following shot where we are directly below, and looking upwards at the undersides of the 3 Stardestroyers (as the Millennium Falcon and Ties come towards our viewpoint)....it looks as if the single Stardestroyer has gone slightly underneath the prow of the RIGHT-hand one....

Which then makes the 'interior' shot wrong!  Unless the shots of the Stardestroyers from below are altered, I'd suggest it might be good to 'flip' the 'interior' shot (or alter what's seen in it's windows), as the other shots can't be 'flipped' because then the 'cockpit' of the Millennium Falcon would be on the wrong side then.

Interesting, as I hadn't picked up on this one before.

Perhaps doubleofive or someone can provide a couple of shots at some point to show everyone here how it currently looks?

ladyferry said:

I don't know if anyone has said this but are you going to use the 'asteroid' sequence from the menu of the Empire DVD from 2004? and the 'Bespin' sequence too? Has anyone got these vids on youtube as I can'y find them? Both sequences would be amazing to incorporate into the Revisited cut.

 I seem to remember someone mentioned these long ago, and agree that there are a couple of nice individual elements during those menus.  Especially most of the Millennium Falcon in the 'asteroids' one.

By the way, I can't wait to see what Adywan can do to improve / replace the dreadful 'Tie Fighters exploding in the asteroid crevice' shots!....

And I meant to say thanks for your continued quick uploading of the recent clips to your collection, ladyferry.  Thanks.  :)

I'd forgotten to add in my previous comments, that while I might have preferred the removal of the 'orange glow' on the big asteroid altogether, or have had it toned down with a hint of debris....that I ALSO really like the enlarged small asteroid that crashes into it now, as it is far more noticeable than before.  Good subtle improvement there. 

....watches latest EXTENDED 'Asteroid Chase' clip....     **FAINTS** and falls to floor....

Jeez Adywan, we're all running out of superlatives here!  :)

We're watching a genius at work here, I reckon...just look at the difference between doubleofive's captures of the 2004 SE DVD version and Ady's 'Revisited' version....

I LOVE it!!  The Ties now 'firing' in those shots are terrific, as is the grey colouring.  The Ties are my favourite design in the whole saga (naturally), so I'm well pleased!  

And it's just so great to see something approximating the 'depth' of the brown asteroid field again, and your tweaking to the explosion at the end really DOES throw out that unfortunate Pilot into relief better than was previously seen.

Just a tiny, somewhat insignificant thing in the scheme of things really, but on the SE's the very front of the 'prongs' of the Millennium Falcon seemed a little dodgy the way they were matted against the large asteroid that enters the left of the frame as it passes against it in the 'side-on' banking shot....as is the actual cockpit too, when seen against this big asteroid.  Any chance of a tidy-up Ady?  It's so brief, it's only noticeable with 'freeze-framing', so no biggie though. 

He's ontop of that one too vaderios.  See number 39 of his list on page 1.

HeKS, personally, I'd certainly like you to post any ideas you have on this.  I hope to list a few of my own preferences on some of the great ideas so far, at some point too.

Ah, thanks for the info. Moth3r.  If he's keeping the existing logo/'headshots' header, then I hope it's going to be enlarged somewhat.

Ripplin said:

I do wonder if Ady plans to do anything with the lifeless instrumentation in the cockpit, though. Wouldn't want to see too much, just a subtle blink here and there, maybe? A simple static graphic instead of blackness?

 

 You'll be glad to see then, that he now states on number 24 of his list on page 1, that he plans to add something subtle to the snowspeeder's instrument panel.

ImperialFighter said:

AuggieBenDoggie said:

Just saw watched both versions of the yoda tweak.  Incredible work ady!  I think the second version is best

I do have a little request on the hoth battle. Could you give the smaller guns on the side of the head of the AT-AT's a little action. They never fire the whole time if I recall.

 Just to say at this point, I now know that they definately do have several scenes where they are utilised throughout the battle for sure....and they aren't green either!  More on them soon.  :)  

Adywan, I think this may be that post of AuggieBenDoggie's which was on page 196 of this thread, that you may have missed.  I know you can't respond to everyone, all the time, so I did at the time.  I hope you'll agree with him that there is some great scope for extra laserbolts from those smaller guns, to be added into quite a few more shots....

I also agree with those who've commented on removing the lasersbolts that show through the various 'transparent' cockpit shots.  That will REALLY improve the look of them all, if you plan to do that.

....and finally, your latest, brief ASTEROID SEQUENCE scene is bloody marvellous!!  It has come alive once more, compared to the SE version.  I love the new sort of 'veering' into it look.  Makes me proud to be British!  :)

You said "The whole asteroid sequence is having a makeover so be prepared. lol" -  Wow, can't wait to see what you are able to do with it all, as like the AT-AT scenes, this is one of my favourite scenes throughout the saga. 
 

Okay, this is just a little couple of things, that again, I've only just realised, before I move on from the 'props' stuff altogether....

As regards this 'foot' -

I've just realised that apart from the 'wobble'....what also gives this shot such a 'mid-air', dangling-look to me, is the way it has been framed against the background it's been given....  It just seems that compared to all the other AT-AT-foot 'close-ups', there is no hint of the ground seen around it, and it could pass for being as high-up as a 'cable-car' or something, going by the way we just see the mountains that are behind it here!  Not seeing the bottom of the 'prop' foot has really ruined the effect of this shot I reckon...which could have worked better if we had, and if it had also been 'zoomed-in' on a little bit more, enough to still capture the part where the cable tow 'attached'....

Adywan, while I don't know if this is an option or not, or know yet if you happen to like the current 'prop' foot too much to lose it....can I throw this out there, that if you are definately keeping it, that the background be altered in some way to seem like it could be nearer the ground? 

Here's the kind of other backgrounds that we see in comparison to the 'prop' foot's one, whenever we see 'close-ups' of AT-AT 'feet', to show what I mean -  

The main effect we see in these shots above is an overall 'whiteness' and lack of background detail, and just a hint of 'ground' effect nearby.  Not the 'mountains set against sky' backdrop that the 'prop' was filmed against.  Unfortunately, none of these particular shots above seem quite long enough to use / or 'flip' into reverse, for use instead of the 'prop' shot, as they are too brief. 

This one below, on the other hand, is long enough, if manipulated.  I didn't previously suggest that the actual footage could be just re-used without 'flipping it into reverse, if you wanted the cable tow to seem as if it was hitting the REAR, LEFT foot in the foreground , on the same side as it does in the 'prop' shot.  With a little alteration, it wouldn't seem an obvious 'total re-use' of the shot, by the time we get to it again (with Luke in it) roughly 4 minutes later.  There has been lots of action / other AT-AT shots going on in-between times to make it pretty 'un-obvious' by then....

Although the same shot 'flipped' in reverse would probably just have any new 'rappelling' cable appear just after the foreground foot passes (matching the sound effect on the soundtrack of course), I think that the 'change of side view' of the REAR, LEFT foot that this would entail, from that previously seen, would work okay too, as I personally always like shot changes from differing sides in certain scenes.  And the fact is that there are intercut shots of the pilots between what comes before and after the 'prop' shot anyway - 

Or the 'flipped' shot as seen below -

Okay, I'm done.  I can get onto some of the more 'fun' little AT-AT things now....  :)

Monroville said




I take it this is the offending element?  If anything, it seems all it needs is the outer ring you see on the model leg (the ring above is flat and smooth, whereas below the inner ring is inset).  Also, going by the picture below, shouldn't there be another inner leg joint on the lower left in the pic above (of course, it would cover up Luke's lightsaber arm and the door, which is maybe why the shot is so off - there's a missing leg!)?

 

 Er...didn't I say most of that (twice!) on the previous page? ;) 

Adywan had originally stated a good while back that he couldn't do much with this, and hadn't really intended to.  The thing is, adding a 'raised ring' would be a very difficult thing to do, throughout the 'movement' of that 'prop's shots....  However, it seems that he is now going to do something here....which is great, as anything he does will be an improvement, I'm sure.

That was a nice bit of thinking there Sevb32, by the way.  I hadn't thought about the 'zoom-in' thing, but can't wait to see what Ady may achieve. 

Here's my favourite piece of early AT-AT art by Ralph McQuarrie -http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8045/mcquarrie27tv1.jpg

doubleofive said:

 

Now I'm ruining it for everybody.

Lol, don't worry, I think most of us realise that even this great entry in the saga is actually full of gaffs and continuity problems at this stage.

Having said that doubleofive, since you pointed out that 'stick' to me (which I actually had never noticed before!), it's all I can see now, and can't bear to watch this movie again....  :)

At least the shot where the snowspeeder goes under the AT-AT is a fleeting one (as are a lot of the shots), and most of the differing cuts from 'extreme close-ups' to fuller viewpoints of the different miniature work are intercut with other scenes before we return to certain ones.  A lot of problems fly past when watching them in the main....I just wish that damn 'wobbly', static-looking 'foot' prop you've shown was even more fleeting!  ;)

Monroville said:

I understand your points; I guess my thing is if you want to keep the red box and the green slider, add it to Luke's in the beginning to be consistent.  Then again, the whole "different setting" thing works too.

But what do I know?  I'm just a crazy guy in a santa suit...

 

Yes, I was meaning that I hope he also prefers to add that green 'moving' slider onto Luke's view too, as the original looks kinda plain.  However I can certainly go with the 'different setting' thing if Adywan prefers it that way.

Also, you may be a crazy guy in a santa suit, but I always look forward to reading your ideas, of which you have many.  We need that around here, as we can't expect Adywan to think of everything himself, if there's certain things we'd like to see.  His choice is final of course.

ImperialFighter said:

 

 

Another thing I would REALLY like to see is the slight, momentary glimpse of an added opposite 'adjoining' FRONT, RIGHT 'leg piece' section coming into view on the LEFT-hand space of the frame, when Luke is first seen reaching for his Lightsaber as he twists on reaching the underbelly.  On studying the movements during that shot, there does seem to be an ideal moment to add this in, as the 'framing' of the whole scene moves to the LEFT, then moves back to the RIGHT a little again, at one point (as if it has lurched forwards during it's 'walking' forward), just before Luke swipes the underbelly with his now fully ignited Lightsaber.  The added glimpse of the new piece on the left-hand side would move back out of the frame, just before Luke swipes upwards.  This is just another little thing that could help matters greatly,  matters, and would tie in with the 'closeness' of the miniature's 'leg pieces' better.   I'd really like to see this if you agree.

I had to go back and re-write quite a bit of this particular paragraph from my previous post above, as I had got my 'lefts' and 'rights' mixed up, due to rushing!  Anyway, I've also added a bit more detail to my description of what I'm meaning, and just wanted to point this out.