ImperialFighter

Sevb32 said:

Is Adywan gonna do anything about the fact we can't see Luke lying on the ground anywhere when the AT-AT he threw the explosive in falls?

Heh, I actually meant to mention that he is in fact planning to do just that, in my recent AT-AT post, but forgot!  That'll be a very cool addition.

vaderios -  that's another great image you've given us. (the AT-AT cyclorama) Nice one.

AuggieBenDoggie -  I'm pleased you're pleased.  And I'm sure all of Adywan's re-done lasers will be great, whatever the amount or colouration he decides on eventually.

doubleofive said:

But look at all the different colors of AT-ATs and sky in those shots!  Each one is different, like taking place on different days even!

Even the same walker has four completely different backgrounds in a few seconds!

Yeah, it's funny how the general action, along with a brief in-between scene here and there, can sell a multitude of differences between various elements.  That's the magic of 'movies' I guess.

Of course, early Film-makers didn't have to contend with rabid fans of certain movies scrutinising various shots with their sweaty thumbs poised over a 'pause' button, as is possible nowadays! 

A lot of things can seem worse in a still photograph, than is really the case.  And the reverse can be true too, of course, if the 'motion' of a fine element is poor.  (Well that's my one deep thought used up for this month then....)

Thanks again for your help by the way, doubleofive.  Can't wait to see Ady's 'one-man studio' efforts on this thing eventually!

In addition to my previous suggestions about the 2 dodgy AT-AT 'prop' shots -  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-TEASER-TRAILER-CLIPS-AVAILABLE-NOW/topic/9060/page/197/ , here's even more HOTH GROUND BATTLE-related musings than ILM can 'shake a stick at', for consideration -

In no particular order, I'll start with the smaller AT-AT laserbolts.... 

Firstly, here are just 3 examples of shots that feature the AT-AT's firing their smaller 'side-guns' -

I remember someone commented a while ago that they didn't think that the 'smaller' AT-AT guns fired at all....  But it turns out that in addition to the 3 examples shown above, that there are several other times scattered throughout the battle where we also see these 'smaller' guns firing in very quick bursts.  And they also have their own distinct 'rapid' sound effect.  

Adywan -  the AT-AT laserbolts are currently the SAME colour for both the 'big' guns and the 'smaller' guns, and although it seems that you are keeping the bigger, 'MAIN' laserbolts their EXISTING colour, I personally wouldn't be against seeing the SMALLER laserbolts from the 'side-guns', firing in a DIFFERENT colour perhaps....because a 'combination' of laserbolt colours could add additional interest and vibrancy to the sequence, and distinguish the smaller blasts a little more from the 'MAIN' AT-AT ones.  (and also from the other similarly-coloured Snowspeeder, Turret gun, and Rebel 'hand gun' ones flying about too)  Personally, I'd prefer these smaller bursts ALONE to be done in the same sort of excellent 'orange' with 'yellow core' colouring as your laserbolts from the floating 'Training Ball' aboard the Falcon in 'ANH:R'.  Anyway, just a final speculation on that, and I'm still entirely happy with BOTH sets of AT-AT laserbolts remaining the same-ish sort of existing colour as each other that we currently see, if that's your preference, as your 'tweaked' ones already look great in the clips.

However, my main hope about the AT-AT laserbolts in general though, is that while there are potential opportunities for some additional 'MAIN' laserbolts here and there....that there is ALSO plenty of scope for additional 'side-gun' laserbolts firing throughout, too.  There are lots of moments that these 'smaller' guns 'swivel' up and down, but yet are NOT currently seen firing, and it would be neat to see laserbolts added to some of these , especially during some of the scenes where hard-to-hit 'snowspeeder targets' fly quickly past them.  (With additional laserbolt sound effects too, of course)

Here's just some examples where it would be good to see some extra laserbolt action coming from the 'smaller' guns, where there are currently none, as it would really help to bring more 'intensity' to these 'miniature' shots -

....such as during the shot below, which comes immediately after Luke says "That armour's too strong for blasters" (and also during the preceding shot immediately before Luke says that, where 2 snowspeeders are seen passing the 'close-up' side of General Veer's AT-AT too, but which is not shown here) -

....and here during the shot below, where a snowspeeder (not shown here) passes the AT-AT's side a good bit higher nearest to us, compared to 'Wedge's' snowspeeder 'wrapping around' the AT-AT lower down.  And shouldn't there be a shadow added coming from the snowspeeder during this shot too, to tie-in with the previous 'wraparound' shot (not shown here) where it was casting one? -

....and here during the start of the shot below, where we might see a last, final burst added to the 'smaller' guns and/or the 'MAIN' ones, just as it starts to crash to the ground....aimed at 'Wedge's' snowspeeder that flies up away from it.  (Note: just beforehand, where we see the 'close-up' of 'Wedge' in his cockpit, as we hear Janson say "Cable detached" -  if you 'freezeframe' the shot, you can see that they are flying off upwards in front of the AT-AT, rather than behind it towards any others that might be coming behind at this point.  Going by the existing footage (where there are no other AT-AT's in the shots), it could be argued that this particular AT-AT could be imagined to be either the FURTHEST BACK one, or is off to the SIDE of the group....in which case it might have been less risky for 'Wedge' to 'release' the cable at a point where he could fly behind it until it toppled, so that he and Janson couldn't be fired at by it!) -

....and here during the shot below , where it would be good to see some fire coming from the smaller AT-AT in the distance (probably it's 'MAIN' ones), as it's onscreen a while doing nothing -

....and here during the start of the shot below, which comes immediately after Luke has dropped to the ground from the AT-AT's belly, where again, we might see  a last, final burst added to the 'smaller' guns and/or the 'MAIN' ones, during it's final step forward....immediately before the AT-AT judders to a standstill, and the 'explosions' start (green one first), due to Luke lobbing a 'grenade' inside it -

....then soon after the 2 shots above, we see Luke looking up from the ground at this AT-AT he's just dropped from, and then immediately see the bare shot below (which comes immediately before the AT-AT's 'head' explodes) -  Is it possible to have SOME kind of added detail in the background here, indicating ANY of the following elements in the distance , ahead of the AT-AT? -  Perhaps part of the Rebel Base, or Turret Guns firing towards the AT-AT (or some laserbolts anyway), or the Power Generator, or the ION Cannon (firing upwards?), or a further ahead AT-AT (or AT-ST even), or an oncoming snowspeeder or two, or some tiny Rebels, or some debris and smoke....  

Anything extra would be appreciated to enhance this shot, as all the AT-AT's are heading in the general direction of the Base and it's 'trench(s)', and getting nearer to it by this point in the battle.  The current background just shows some 'landscape' and nothing else.  Also, is there a little too much 'debris' shown on the ground near the AT-AT, during this shot, at this point? - 

....then just immediately after the shot above, we then cut to the shot below, where the AT-AT's 'head' explodes.  The explosion happens so quickly near the START of the shot, that unless you 'freeze-frame' it, you can't really tell that we don't see a hint of the noticeably 'sparking'/'falling panel' on the AT-AT's left-side that is seen during the preceding shot above.  It might be nice to know something similar has been added to the AT-AT's left-side here in the 1 or 2 frames before the explosion though, to tie the shots together -  

.....also, in the shot above, shouldn't the 'snow' obscuring the front of the miniature AT-AT's 'window' be removed completely, so that it matches all the other AT-ATs, such as the other 'close-up' example shown below , that appears earlier on in the battle?  (Even the AT-AT that ploughs headlong into the ground doesn't get 'snow' in this area during it's fall)  And as I think someone suggested previously, I reckon it might be neat to have the subtle hint of an AT-AT crewmember (or two) be momentarily seen to be 'blown outwards' during the 'head's' explosion in the shot above, in a somewhat similar way to the unfortunate TIE pilot, during the 'asteroid chase'!

....then after the AT-AT's 'head' explodes in the shot shown 2 above, there is the briefest of 'dramatic pauses' where the screen goes black momentarily, before we then cut to the shot below as the AT-AT finally falls on it's side to the ground.  Could a subtle laserbolt or two (firing towards the unseen Rebels in front) be added to the smaller AT-AT in the distance during the few seconds that this shot lasts? - 

....also, during this shot below, we see that the falling AT-AT's rear-left 'foot-stem' suddenly shakes loose mid-fall.  It's not too much of a biggie, but this always makes the shot immediately stand out as being a little too much like a 'miniature' for my liking, and I'd much prefer to see this wobbling 'foot-stem' not come 'loose' if possible.  Having said that, I don't know if it can be improved much considering the sudden 'displacement' of the angle of the rear-left 'foot' itself, without some attention from Adywan....  Perhaps if the AT-AT's 'fall' could be 'slowed down' a tad (like the 'asteroid slug' was), it might give it a bit more 'scale' and improve things a little -

Of course, the problem is that the whole 'foot' of the 'miniature' was originally poked upwards with a 'stick' by an ILM crewmember, so the AT-AT would topple! (couldn't they have pulled it over less awkwardly with some fine 'fishgut' instead, lol?) -  Seen clearer here in all it's glory - 

This was all well and good back in the day, considering the limitations at the time, and it certainly wasn't something I ever focused on before, considering I was more distracted by the wobbly 'foot-stem' that came loose instead!  It's a small thing, but it seems kind of slipshod that no-one at Lucasfilm seems to have deemed it a good idea to put it's much-vaunted CGI capabilities to some good use here, and erase this 'stick' for the SE DVD release....  It's the same kind of nice obvious little fix that was determinedly omitted on the 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' DVD release too, where we can still see that damned 'pole' that overturns the truck from underneath, before it explodes. 

(Note to George and Steven -  That very noticeable 'pole' does NOT enhance the shot in any way, and I still can't quite get my head around the fact it wasn't removed for the DVD release, given the opportunity afforded by CGI at that point.  Especially since you went CGI-apeshit with 'Indy 4'!  Still....at least Adywan will be getting rid of the 'stick' now, thankfully!)

Something that's also been always jarring, has been the AT-AT shot with the 'pink legs'.  During the shots when Luke's snowspeeder has crashed, the approaching legs in the middle shot below suddenly have an unnatural 'pink' colouration, compared to the leg shots before and after it.  Can you get rid of all the 'pinkness' so that the legs are greyer to tie-in better with the top and bottom shots, if possible?  (It's not too obvious in the shot shown here, but the 'pinkness' is glaring on the SE release) - 

Adywan, I know you mentioned previously that you might end up doing away with the AT-ST, but I'm personally hoping not.  In defence of it's appearance halfway through the AT-AT Battle, I remember that during my first ever cinema viewing of 'Empire', that when the (original) 'chicken walker' suddenly appeared in the shot below, that there was a big ripple of approval about it's funny-looking design.   It just seemed to be such a typically inventive 'Star Wars' contraption at the time, with its slightly humourous, brisker walk, that added greatly to the ongoing visuals, albeit briefly.  And so it was then good to see a second short appearance of it a little later on too, as seen in the bottom shot below.

Also, I remember you said something about the 'chicken walker' looking as if it's not on the same 'level' as the AT-AT in the foreground.  However, on re-watching the SE version onscreen, the shot still works fine for me, from that angle under the AT-AT's head.  And if the AT-ST is indeed 'higher' up than the AT-AT, it could just be that the 'chicken walker' is on a slightly higher area beside the AT-AT.  If you do keep it, it would be neat to see the the 'chicken walker' fire at least once during it's shots though.  Also, the AT-AT's front-right leg seems strangely 'serated' during the AT-STs first appearance, as if there's a little piece missing (it's the same on the GOUT), as can be seen in the first two shots below.  It's leg should be straight at either side of that section.  Could you fix this sometime? -        

Returning to the subject of 'lasers' again briefly....  Apart from the similar colours of both sets of AT-AT guns/Snowspeeder guns/Rebel 'hand-guns'/ Turret guns laserbolts....there are also the 'multi-coloured' ones of the ION Cannon and the Rebel's 'round' gun emplacements.  Personally I was never too keen on some of these, as some of them seem 'over-painterly' and very unconvincing.  However, it seems that you are now doing a take on vaderio's excellent 'electrical' blueish-white ones for the ION Cannon, which is great news as far as I'm concerned.  This is just another 'what if?', but what's your thoughts on the eventual colour of the Rebel's 'round' gun emplacements firing, being changed too? -

Here's a rough example of how the current 'multi-coloured' laserbolts look -

....and here's another variation where we see the detail of a 'round' gun emplacement only 'powering-up' in 'orange' before it eventually releases a 'multi-coloured' laserbolt (note: the previous example seemed to have a 'greenish-yellow' 'power-up') - 

Okay, the 'what if' I'm throwing out here is, instead of the laserbolts from the 'round' gun emplacements staying at their current sort of overall 'pinkness', which is similar to a lot of other laserbolts flying around already, that they instead become an ALTERNATIVE colour throughout the sequence....while REMAINING the same colour that is seen during their 'powering-up' glows -  this means either ORANGEY or GREENISH laserbolts or BOTH, as we see both types of 'power-up' glows.  (They can even be made YELLOW or any other colour wished, at the end of the day)  Personally, I actually like any of these, as the main thing would be that they'd add a bit of extra visual interest, and are more easily distinguished from the similar-coloured laserbolts already on show from the various other weapon systems, without being wildly 'rainbow-coloured' at times.... 

Finally, I'd just like to bring up this poor piece of stop-motion 'continuity' where the top shot immediately cuts to the bottom one, and reveals that the angles of the legs are not matching whatsoever....but more distractingly, shows the WRONG front-leg hitting the snow FIRST in the bottom shot! -

Now I don't know if it's possible to really sort the legs out properly during this shot or not, but if it can be, then that is fantastic....but if not, then it could be worth considering the following 'cheat' which involves 'flipping' the top shot so that the same front-leg hits the snow first.  (It can only be the legs that are 'flipped' into reverse, as the AT-ATs are not covered with 'symmetrical' detailing on their main structure)  Either way, it would be great to see some added thin 'cable' wrapped around the legs of the AT-AT shot shown above as it falls into the snow, shifting as the legs collapse.  Also, there's a small side panel that comes off as it falls, and a bigger panel that 'flaps open' then closes again.  I've always thought this 'flapping' side panel gives away the miniature too much, and that it would look more substantial if this panel didn't 'flap' open....  Also, at the very start of the top shot above of the legs beginning to topple, the REAR-LEFT 'foot' PIN 'jerks' suspiciously back into place suddenly.  Can this be fixed?  Here's how the sequence would now look, if this was done -

Immediately after Jansen has attached a 'cable' to the 'wobbly' AT-AT 'foot' PROP, Wedge says "Good shot Jansen" and starts to wrap around the oncoming AT-AT -

....then we cut to a 1 second side-on 'close-up' of Jansen grinning in his cockpit, before we then cut to the shot below -

....then we cut to 15 seconds of one or two other shots of the Snowpeeder continuing to fly around the AT-AT's legs, as well as various 'close-ups' of Wedge and Jansen as they 'detatch' their cable and fly off in front of the tangled AT-AT, before we eventually then cut to this shot below , which is now 'flipped' into reverse! -

....then we immediately cut from the 'flipped' shot above showing the entangled RIGHT-front leg falling first....back to the way things currently are in the shot below, and our eyes are drawn to the forward motion of the RIGHT-front leg shown here ALSO hitting the ground first!  (Note:  the rear legs don't match the angles of the shot above  either, even when unflipped....but a viewer is far more likely to focus on what is going on with the front legs hitting the snow anyway, especially after repeated viewings)  And you'll soon get used to the change of 'camera angle' from what you've been used to.  ;)  - 

....and we then continue on the sequence till it's conclusion as normal....as we wonder when Adywan might spring his next 'flipped' shot on us! -

That finally covers everything AT-AT-related that I wanted to express, so I can concentrate on some last few other little issues scattered throughout the movie from hereonin.  :)

Happy days for us all indeed Adywan!  Great news that you managed to get a good one for what's needed on this thing.  :)

I also see you really liked some of vaderio's ideas then.  I'm especially pleased that you liked his 'electrical' ION Cannon laserbolts concept.  I can't wait to see your own finished version of that.

I'm going to post a lengthy follow-up very shortly about some remaining thoughts to do with the whole AT-AT battle sequence, and I hope you'll find something of interest amongst the different aspects of it.  I'd like to thank doubleofive once again for kindly supplying the shots I wanted to show here. 

adywan said:

Sorry i haven't been around guys but i decided to crack on with ESB:R.

 

Now i have hell of a lot of reading to do to catch up so i'll try to reply to all these as soon as i can

Adywan, have you managed to catch up with some of the neat comments and ideas that were floated around here in your absence before you posted the above along with your great new 'asteroid slug' link a few pages back?

vaderios was especially in overdrive with some very interesting mock-ups here and on the 'ESB and ROTJ Wishlist' thread during this time.  Hope you saw his efforts. 

Your latest 'jump cut fix' looks terrific of course, and your 'Bespin balcony' work looks excellent too.  The thing I actually like the most is the fact that there is not an overpowering 'reflection' of the orange sky on the floor anymore.  And putting the 'railing' higher was great.  I can't remember if it was Bingowings that flagged that up originally, or not, but I really liked that idea at the time, so am glad to see it incorporated.

Great news on the HD Camcorder front sooner rather than later I see, from sketchrob and others in these 'credit-crunched' times.  There's nothing worse than not having the correct materials/tools available when you're on a roll with something good.

Being an artist, I'm sure sketchrob knows that this is real ART you are creating here, which you are amazing us with as you go along.  They can keep their 'pickled sharks', and 'unmade beds'....this is true talent! 

Adywan, your latest clip of part of the 'asteroid slug' sequence is simply brilliant!!

I'm very pleased that you are keeping the existing design of it (and it's teeth).  TMBTM's idea of 'retractable' teeth should look quite neat at the start.  The 'slowed down' movement of the slug's 'lunge' really makes a great improvement to the 'scale' of it.  And I see that you've also removed that suspect 'piece of elastic' from the base of the slug.  :)

I also think your additional asteroids look excellent, and I'm really pleased we see the asteroid field beyond the teeth of the slug now, too.  The addition of the 'crater wall' in the shot of the Millennium Falcon escaping is also a terrific addition.  This whole scene is a huge improvement already, and I look forward to what you can achieve with the other parts of it.

I am in awe that you are now planning to physically build a 'slug mouth' (with tongue) interior now....as well as a new 'canyon', ontop of the other stuff.  Wonderful.  You just can't beat that 'old-school' vibe!

Sevb32 -  I really like your notion of showing a little more 'ground mist' as the Falcon approaches the teeth by the way.  That slug's tongue and belly is pretty putrid I bet...

doubleofive -  A brief, underlying 'Force choke rumble' during that little Vader/Lando exchange would indeed be neat.  (I hope to definately post those other AT-AT comments this week! ;) )

sketchrob -  Nice one, and I hope that Adywan can even eventually get that CANON HD10 which seems to be the business.  I wonder how many on this site will want one too, now?  They should give him a free one considering they won't get a much higher recommendation.

Ziz -  I don't know if you missed it before, but Ady has previously mentioned that part of the appeal of doing this edit is the fact that he will enjoy making the stuff along the way, himself.  I've come across some shots of his work in the past that he's made, and hope that he will be able do his own stuff for this eventually, if possible.   

ladyferry -  Thanks for the YouTube link as always.

Intriguing....

Things are coming along nicely on this great project I see  :)

Thanks for that Taolar.  :)

Looking forward to seeing when I can.

'77 -  my favourite year ever!  This movie sounds awesome.  :)

Taolar, I've just had the chance to read through this interesting thread, and your project seems great.

I would really like to see this, but I too am without a Demonoid account.  Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.

TMBTM said:

Don't know if this was already discuted, but I Just noticed a thing working on my OT silent edit:

In the scene with the Wampa, It looks like just the forearm of the beast fall on the snow, but in the SE edition scene that follows, the Wampa have his full arm cutted.

I think That is one of those continuity things that drives Adywan mad.

I described just that, just the other day on page 230, in conjunction with the mock-ups by vaderios.

It seems to be a moot point anyway, as it seems like Adywan may have decided not to use that shot of the Wampa....  (Pity, as I personally liked that one, with a bit of tweaking)

vaderios, I really like this idea of some 'flickering'/'sparking' lighting 'blowing out' in the Rebel Base during this point.  Nice one.

vaderios said:

ImpFighter, The hologram thing. I was awaring to make a transmiter that shows where the holograms came of, but i thought in the PT in the jedi council holograms there are no "visible" emiters. So i left it alone.

That is a good point, and therefore those black 'sections' that could pass as some kind of 'projection unit', could be a sophisticated version of those types, and does indeed 'project' them out onto the corridor near it.

It does seem to lose the black 'circular' unit during the scene though...

Yup, I have exactly the same problem.  Hopefully Jay can iron it out.

Kurgan said:

 

I personally think what this movie needs is more blood. It's unrealistic that Han slices open that Taun Taun and its guts just fall out like wet rice noodles. I'm thinking you could put in some of those "Kill Bill" style blood geysers there. It would really pay homage to the old Samurai movies that Lucas was inspired by, like Shogun Assasin.

Not sure about that blood thing, but at the moment we just see the 'saddle straps' flame-up when they are cut by the lightsaber.  Perhaps there could be a brief hint of that 'cauterization' effect along the edges of the cut 'opening' too, Adywan? 

That reminds me, I wish there had been a good shot of the 'full-scale' Tauntaun 'prop' similar to this production photo.  Adywan could have really made it come to life I'm sure, if we'd seen this much of it -

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/340/704216-tauntaun_super.jpg

Okay, last thing from me for the moment is this interesting collection of deleted shots from the 'Rebel base Wampa attack'.  I'd never seen some of these before. Scroll down to comment no. 14 by DarthVader2932.  Now THAT'S one sad Wampa suit, lol! -

http://www.starwarsaddiction.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=841

vaderios, while I'm on the subject of the Wampa(s?) for a moment, I'd also really like to see you take a shot at making the head on the 2nd appearance of the Wampa look more like the one from it's 1st appearance in the top shot here, sometime.  (No wonder they kept it's 'lunge' so brief, and had it's paws up in front of it's face, obscuring it a little, lol....)

Here's a couple of good angles of the 1st appearance prop.  As well as the obvious differences on the faces, I preferred the 'lop-sided' look to it's ears in it's 1st appearance, compared to the 'pointy' ones in it's 2nd one.  (However, I do prefer the 'gnarly' horns seen on the new SE suit, and would like to see more of a hint of these (or even just 1!) added to the 1st appearance shot too!) -

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3208/2618660420_aa5b2d91ca.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/202/489049856_16dbcc4c9c.jpg?v=0

That was thoughtful of you to contact the 501st guys about a Vader suit for the 'hologram' by the way, and neat that they got back to you about something of use too.  I'm curious to see the one that Adywan made for himself that may be used in that shot though.

Anyway, I'll leave you with my favourite piece of artwork of a 'lunging' Wampa -

http://api.ning.com/files/n--bYDgNKr86-CYMzSmtfZOC*ylo2XZVeWxkzUCoJ9o_/wampa_ambush.jpg

Of course, I'm sure any head that Adywan comes up with, will surely be better than the look of the original 2nd Wampa appearance, as seen 'lunging' towards Luke in the cave....  It seems that this suit was only intended for 'certain' shots (hence the Tauntaun here), but I wonder if they eventually realised the face was so bad, that they had to re-design it for it's 1st 'close-up' appearance?!

Ripplin said:

To me, the cut would be so fast that you would barely see any damage at all. Maybe a faint wisp of smoke coming from the shoulder and maybe from the stump on the ground, which I figure would all but be "lifeless" (i.e. no smoke or boiling blood or anything) by the time it hit the ground.

Kinda like Adywan's arm in 'ANH:R' then.  Yes that could work on the 'stump' shot too, but I still like the idea of a little 'cauterization' effect when we see the 'arm' in 'close-up' before it.  Also, we immediately cut to the arm hitting the ground after it's sliced off by Luke here, whereas there were a few seconds before we saw Ady's 'arm' after Ben sliced it off, during which time the effect would have gone, just leaving the faint wisp of smoke.... 

However, I guess we're not getting this shot anyway.

The Golden Idol -  As to where Ady's been, I reckon he's busy with all this stuff he's cobbling together.  Last I heard, he was trying out a Wampa suit concept to tie all it's shots together.... -   http://www.swfn.de/images/mitglieder/stefan_v/stefan_v5.jpg 

-Angel

vaderios, I really like your idea for the 'armless' Wampa shot!  And because I like this shot and concept so much, I'd love to see another version with the following amendments, if you find the time....and if you can be bothered!

You see, although I also like the brief new SE Wampa 'left arm/and side' that we see in the foreground now (when Luke cuts himself free), the shot above is the ONLY other new one that I cared for in the sequence (although I would rather lose the first half where he 'holds his wound', and would rather only see the second half of the shot where he outstretches his left paw, for an even briefer final 'reveal').  I thought the others lingered far too long, and didn't match the look of either(!) of the original designs anyway.

As Adywan previously noted, the arm 'prop' is too short to have been cut off at the shoulder, so there should have been more of a hairy 'stump' left at that area! 

Although these mock-up versions looks too 'fiery' for my own taste, I reckon if the brighter 'glows' of your 'cauterization' effect was toned down slightly on the 'arm on ground' shot (which comes before the 'reveal'), and you removed the 'flying embers' coming of it, that it might look better.

And then with the 'final reveal' shot (but on an added 'stump'!), I reckon that if you again toned down the brighter 'glows' here also (with perhaps a little more orange in places now, instead of yellow?), and cut the effect down by about half the amount against the black, and again remove the 'flying embers' coming of it....that this might look better too.

This may all be a moot point of course vaderios, as I seem to remember Adywan confirming that he won't be using ANY of the new SE shots for his edit.  It's certainly good to see your ideas though.

I just wish a lot of the designs in the Prequels had seemed more OT'ized!

OR seemed more PRE-OT'ized in fact, if you see what I mean.  ;)

About that 3 'holograms' scene -  something that I always wondered about was where they actually eminated from?....  They just seem to appear in the middle of the corridor in front of Vader.  I would have preferred to have seen them originally placed in the 'section' on the right of that shot, above the black 'circular' object for instance, as it sure looks like it could pass for a 'projection' unit' of some sort.

Adywan, I'm not sure, but perhaps some kind of very subtle, faint 'projection glow' could be added to be seen coming to each 'hologram' from small starting points on the black structure above the 'circular' object, as if it's 'throwing' the images out into the corridor?  (like a more sophisticated version of R2D2's 'projection' of Princess Leia)  I would have suggested just having this effect come from directly above where the 'holograms' stand, but we see what the overhead ceiling detail looks like in the first shot of Admiral Ozzel heading towards the 'Bridge', and also later on, when Vader chokes Captain Needa. 

By the way, that 'circular' object seems to be missing in the next shot where we see the 2 remaining 'holograms' in the foreground!

HotRod and Ripplin - Yeah, by their very nature, all of these 'edit' threads are always going to be full of 'errors' we never noticed before.  Ontop of the ones I already knew about, there's been quite a few mentioned here that I never spotted once during the numerous times I've watched 'Empire' previously!  And there will be many more mentioned about the rest of the saga too, lol.

Thankfully, Adywan is correcting the majority of these, so all's well really.

Gorilla -  I'd be more than happy if Adywan would consider going with your slightly alternative route of 'dropping' the elements you mention, instead of 'raising' the existing long 'support arm' in line with the circular window.  Either way gives the same result of lining up where Luke exits the support arm tunnel, which some seem to agree with....although he seems to enter the inside of the Wind Vane with the window on his left side, rather than his right side, in this scenario....

But if Adywan is considering ruling this out because he really wishes to include the Carbon Chamber above this area, in the Wind Vane itself....I can only think that his new structure's width is going to be very different to how it currently looks.  I've no doubt he can make it work, but it seems a lot more work for him. 

vaderios, those are some excellent mock-ups once again.  I think your version of the Stardestroyer being struck by the 'electrically'-charged laserbolt looks brilliant.  I hope Adywan ends up doing something similar along these lines.  Your Slave 1 cockpit displays look great too, and Adywan has listed this as something he plans to do something with in some way, also.   

Since a couple of people have commented about Leia not being able to tell the difference between a giant 'mouth' closing, and a 'cave' collapsing, I thought I'd try and re-work the timing of her line a little, to see if it could be placed somewhere else.  Again, you need to watch the 'movement' of the shots onscreen to get a proper idea. 

(I'm fine with where her line "The cave is collapsing" is placed in the sequence currently, as I always thought that the young Princess just did not comprehend the fantastic notion that she (and the Millennium Falcon) could actually be inside some gargantuan living creature to begin with, and that whatever she was seeing was just so outwith the scope of her 'experience', that it just didn't 'register' with her that there was some 'giant maw' closing ahead in the distance....  I understand that some may not agree though.)

It's just speculation, but I'm interested to see if anyone thinks the following alternative sequence would have worked a little better for the placement of the line -

I'll describe the current sequence first, and then you can easily compare the alternative version to it, that comes afterwards.  Before I start, I need to explain my own preferred view of where I see the Space Slug being 'positioned' in relation to the 'cave' opening that the Falcon flies into, in the first place - 

I always think of it as resting a little ways down in the 'cave' when the Falcon flies through the 'opening' at first.  (so of course, I'd prefer it if the 'white' entrance in the shot where the front 'bright, white' lights switch on, was just made into the 'cave' opening with a black starfield behind, by Adywan, rather than a 'mouth'at this point....and a tiny asteroid drifting/tumbling past it in the distance might be nice)  I've always thought that the creature's 'open maw' was a little further down in the darkness at this point, and is only approached by the Falcon during the shot that comes after Leia says "I hope you know what you're doing", and Han replies "Yeah, me too".... (Note -  it's the very 'dark area' that is to the left of where the mysterious 'white ball' used to appear.  Adywan has now removed the 'white ball', if you look at his 'Luke approaching Dagobah' clip) -  having said this, it could be neat if Adywan showed a slightly closer, more obvious (to us) 'open maw' in that area, as the Falcon heads down....

Anyway, I've always also thought that events then continued something like this -  during a short interlude later in the movie, the stationary Falcon is briefly 'rocked' twice (due to the Space Slug moving forward a little), knocking Leia off-balance into Han's lap....before he continues to try sorting the Hyperdrive system.  Then when we see the Falcon again, further on in the movie, the laserbolts of Chewbacca then Han, spur the Space Slug into a continuous 'rocking' motion forward towards the 'cave' opening, once again....  (Note -  from when Han shoots down at the 'belly' of the Space Slug, up until the Falcon takes off, the sequence is shown in 'real-time' and lasts approx. 40 seconds -  plenty of time for it to now have eventually reached very near the the 'cave' opening (from where it was deeper down before), to lunge outwards....)  

I'll continue on from here with the current sequence in 7 shots as we know it -

Shot 1 -  Han and Chewbacca enter the cockpit, with Leia just behind.  (C3PO is still being 'rocked' just outside the cockpit somewhere)  The door shuts behind Leia as she says "You can't make the jump to lightspeed in this asteroid field".  Han immediately responds "Sit down sweetheart!  We're taking off!"

We then cut to Shot 2 (which lasts approx. 2 secs.) - http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/sslug1.jpg

From a viewpoint behind Han, Leia, and Chewbacca in cockpit, we see through the cockpit windows that the Falcon has taken off, and it swings around to it's left, where we see the tiny 'open maw' in the distance ahead of them.  No words are spoken by anyone during this shot....  (Note -  regardless of the fact that I think the Space Slug could 'extend' to quite a long 'length' as it moves forwards through it's 'cave'....I would like it's 'open maw' in the distance, to be a little closer during this shot, to better tie-in with the much closer viewpoint we see it from, in the next shot of it, a couple of seconds later.  The  Space Slug seems to be very long in this shot, and it doesn't need to be....if Adywan agrees that it was further down the 'cave' to begin with initially, as I described earlier) 

We then cut to Shot 3 (which lasts approx. 2 secs.) -

We see a front 'close-up' of the crew now, as C3PO has appeared in the doorway of the cockpit and raises his arm saying "Look!", as the door shuts behind him, and Han immediately responds "I see it, I see it".

We then cut to Shot 4 (which last approx. 2 secs.) -

We are much closer to the 'teeth' now (shown in the screenshot above at top), as seen through the front of the cockpit windows, and we just hear C3PO say "We're doomed!", then just hear Leia say "The cave is collapsing"....(shown in the screenshot above in middle)  (Question for Adywan -  should we actually see a hint of the 'cave' opening anywhere, just ahead of the open 'teeth'?....to tie in with where it eventually emerges.  Would we see any of the surrounding 'cave' opening from the Falcon's cockpit viewpoint or not, do you think?  I'm not sure, although the 'cave' opening does seem a good bit wider than the size of the Space Slug's head.  It might be nice to see a small asteroid or 2 drifting/tumbling past in the distant starfield, ahead of the teeth, in these shots though....) 

We then cut to Shot 5 (which lasts approx. 2 secs.) -

We see a front 'close-up' of the crew again now, as Han says "This is no cave", and Leia immediately responds "What?".  The door is still shut behind C3PO at the back.  (why the door is important will become apparent in my alternative sequence) 

We then cut to Shot 6 (which last approx. 2 secs.) -

We see a 'close-up' of the Space Slug's teeth almost closed together, as the Millennium Falcon just escapes in-between them.  (shown in the bottom screenshot above)

Finally, we then cut to Shot 7 -  http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/sslug3.jpg

We see the Space Slug emerge from very near the top of the 'cave' opening, with it's 'chin' and left-hand side closest to the edge of the opening....as it opens it's mouth wide again, snapping once at the escaping Falcon, as it lunges outwards amidst some 'debris' from the 'cave'.

NOW HERE'S THE ALTERNATIVE VERSION.... (you need to allow for the fact that the 'positioning' of C3PO and the door opening would need to be amended properly!)

Shot 1 -  Han and Chewbacca enter the cockpit, with Leia just behind.  (C3PO is still being 'rocked' just outside the cockpit somewhere)  The door shuts behind Leia as she says "You can't make the jump to lightspeed in this asteroid field".  Han immediately responds "Sit down sweetheart!  We're taking off!"  (Note - this shot is exactly the same as before)

We then cut to Shot 2 (which lasts approx. 2 secs.) - http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/sslug1.jpg

From a viewpoint behind Han, Leia and Chewbacca in cockpit, we see through the cockpit windows that the Falcon has taken off, and it swings around to it's left, where we see the tiny 'open maw' in the distance ahead of them.  However, now we would hear Leia's voice saying "The cave is collapsing" during this shot....where the 'teeth' are further away in the 'distance' from her sight (and ours!) at this early point in the sequence (and is the main reason for coming up with this alternative scenario) - My previous comments about making the 'open maw' just a little closer at this point (in the current shot) would also apply here too, though.

We then cut to Shot 3 (which lasts approx. 2 secs.) -

We see a front 'close-up' of the crew now, but this time it is the one where Han says "This is no cave", and Leia immediately responds "What?"  (However, where C3PO previously appears in the doorway of the cockpit as the door then closes behind him, at this point in the current sequence ....we now unfortunately have him slightly in front of a closed door)

We then cut to Shot 4 (which lasts approx. 2 secs.) -

We are much closer to the 'teeth' now (shown in the screenshot above at top), as seen through the front of the cockpit windows, but this time we only hear C3PO saying "We're doomed" before we reach the end of the shot.  (shown in the screenshot above in the middle) -  My previous question about whether we should see a hint of the 'cave' opening beyond the 'teeth' anywhere at this point (in the current shot) would also apply here too, as would my comment about having a small asteroid or 2 in the starfield beyond the teeth.

We then cut to Shot 5 (which lasts approx. 2 secs.) -

We see a front 'close-up' of the crew again now, but this time it is the one where C3P0 raises his arm saying "Look!", and Han immediately responds "I see it, I see it".  (However, where C3PO previously stands just slightly in front of a closed door, at this point in the current sequence....we now unfortunately have him appearing in the doorway of the cockpit, as the door then closes behind him)

We then cut to Shot 6 (which lasts approx, 2 secs.) - 

We see a 'close-up' of the Space Slug's teeth almost closed together, as the Millennium Falcon just escapes in-between them.  (shown in the bottom screenshot above)  (Note -  this shot is exactly the same as before)

Finally, we cut to Shot 7 -  http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/sslug3.jpg

We see the Space Slug emerge from very near the top of the 'cave' opening, with it's 'chin' and left-hand side closest to the edge of the opening....as it opens it's mouth wide again, snapping once at the escaping Falcon, as it lunges outwards amidst some 'debris' from the 'cave'.  (Note -  this shot is exactly the same as before)

Done.  :) 

We did get the excellent green 'glows' from the big Death Star guns firing in 'A New Hope'.  They looked even better in 'Revisited'.

It's got to be said vaderios, that you are very talented.  The more I look at how you executed those couple of shots, the more I hope that Adywan decides to do something along these lines.

I especially like the subtle hint of blue 'glow'reflection on the ION cannon and snow, as it fires, as well as the arcing 'electricity' charge.  I hope that Adywan considers adding these elements, even if he decides he doesn't want the blueish white colour.  But I'd really like that colouring too!

vaderios said:

ImpFighter: In the last pic I see a tiling/matte problem on the planet's surface. Its me or IT is wrong?

Well vaderios, I never noticed that particular one before, but yes indeed, having looked at that now, there does seem to be an unnaturally 'straight line' cutting across that darker area on the left-hand side of the 'Hoth planet' in that shot.  Very observant of you.  I'm sure Adywan can tidy that up a little.

The actual blue 'atmosphere haze' below it is incomplete around the planet of course, and I'm sure he will attend to that too, as he always does.

By the way Adywan, I think you'll agree that those examples of teharri's 'blueish white, electrical' laserbolts done by vaderios there, look fantastic!  Very nicely done.  :)