ImperialFighter

Monroville said:

I guess that would kind of make sense, being that it is the Avenger chasing the Falcon... or is it?!?!

I would think that the SDs hit with the ion cannon would take a little while to recover.  But can't we just say it was Needa?  You know, because everything just went his way...

Next up: Captain Needa's best seller - "How to go from starship captain to corpse in less than 24 hours"

 

Monroville, It's certainly Captain Needa's 'Avenger' that chases the Falcon after it has blasted off from Hoth. 

In the the final shot of the (middle) 'chasing Stardestroyer' nearly colliding / (actually scraping!?) with one of  the 2 'oncoming' ones , we see it noticably 'dip' downwards.  This ties-in with the previous 'interior' shot that tilts downwards when it takes 'evasive action', showing Captain Needa being thrown off-balance.  The 'Avenger' continued after the Falcon, and caught up with it again, later on.

I quite liked an earlier suggestion that the ION Cannon might take a little while to 'power-up' up again, between shots, throughout the AT-AT battle, after it's initial couple of bursts....although we'll never know for sure, just how many more times it fired at other Stardestroyers during the evacuation.... 

But whether there would have been a 'delay' between it firing or not....while it seems that the (foremost?) 'Tyrant' Stardestroyer was hit, we know that the 'Executor', the 'Avenger' and a couple of other 'standard' Stardestroyers don't seem to have been targeted out of the remaining Stardestroyers left.  (Unless ships are only disabled very temporarily , which is not a theory I really like)  I've always thought that there needed to have been other, UNSEEN Stardestroyers as part of the 'Fleet', for the scenario to work that there could be a few ships aimed at during the AT-AT battle, while STILL leaving us with the ones we know stayed intact....  This will seem more likely now, since Adywan has confirmed he plans to add a couple more Stardestroyers to the 'Fleet approaching Hoth Planet' shot.  These extra ones that will be SEEN now, could be the ones which actually ended up as ION Cannon fodder.... 

Stay on target....stay on target....  (in best Gold 5 voice)  or vbangle will get you...

Ganamae -  thanks for clearing that up for Monroville.  I really liked his recent suggestions. 

So that particular one is called the 'Tyrant' eh?  I didn't know that either. 

Monroville said:

I would keep this shot clean of any added SDs, being that the IMperial Fleet would be "behind" the camera view.

REPLY -  I absolutely agree!  This was just originally a rough indication that the Planet could have been 'surrounded' to a certain degree, as I thought that there was going to be quite a large Fleet perhaps, and that it would be interesting to show that they would spread fairly wide around the Planet.  However, having thought about Adywan's intentions today for a more modest amount of ships, I think you are definately correct that the fewer Stardestroyers that the ION Cannon fires towards here (and that the 'Transport' heads towards too), WOULD be 'behind' this P.O.V. shot! 

 

This is where I would add the rest of the Imperial Fleet in the background, about half the size or smaller than the Avenger (since the Avenger was rushing to make the first kill).

REPLY -  Again, I think this would be a great addition here.  You have the possible placement and 'scale' spot on here, and think their addition into this would tie-in VERY well with some of the previous Stardestroyer positioning we see!

Note:  Is it really the 'Avenger' that is the most foremost Stardestroyer here?  The foremost one (seen in this shot) is the one that gets disabled isn't it?   The 'Avenger' is another one that eventually chases after the Millennium Falcon, isn't it?  

 

I would add the background fleet in the later part of the camera pan here, to show them closing in.

REPLY -  Again, this would be a great addition at this point!

You could maybe add some tracks here to show that Luke has at least walked from over the ridge (from the center to the lower left).  I see now that there are tracks directly behind him (so this is a very minor alteration suggestion), just a suggestion so we can better see the tracks.

REPLY -  Trivial and unexciting.  But a really nice subtle spot, and I'll take it!

Could improve the background sky area.

REPLY -  Absolutely!  Especially when we see how great Ady's 'ION Cannon' background looks now....

I would replace the Executor with two or three disabled SDs off to the right background, to imply that the path the rebels took (and the previous location of the Imperial Fleet) was way off to the right.

REPLY -  Absolutely, once again!  I've previously flipped between whether I thought a disabled Stardestroyer would be better added to this shot OR if it should be added to the next one with the receding X-Wing instead.  In the end I suggested adding one to the next shot.  However, I now clearly see the better option of showing something along the lines of what you've suggested here, that would look terrific if added into this shot instead, especially when taken in conjunction with your next comments!

  

 

I would keep this shot clean, as of by now Luke would be far away from the main rebel escape point and the ion battle.  You could possibly show the stars start to speed up as Luke increases speed to prep for the hyperspace jump.

REPLY -  Agreed!  It does make sense from a positioning / distance aspect, that we see the disabled Stardestroyer(s) on the previous shot instead, and in the position you describe....

Adywan, as far as I'm concerned, this particular post by Monroville is a gold nugget! 

I REALLY dig these suggestions of his here, and feel that taken as a whole, that they are a BIG improvement to this sequence in general!  Certainly something for you to consider.

Monroville, nice one!  I'd happily see these ideas realised, as they would enhance the existing shots wonderfully.  Well thought out indeed.  I've just copied your comments (as the shots are nearby here already), and added some of my own for you, beside each one.

Of course, I'll take whatever excellence Adywan comes up with, and like it!  But I certainly like these proposals....a LOT.

Just caught the new ION Cannon laserbolt!

Marvellous colouring, just marvellous.

Can't wait to see that sequence in motion.

A couple of last things for now -  I remember vaderious mocked-up a 'reflective' glow effect on the ION Cannon (and some of the snow too) when it fired.  I know this is only a single frame, but will you be incorporating a little of that at all, or not?   A little would be neat perhaps.  It's already neat of course.

Same question about a 'build-up' of 'arcing electricity' as it prepares to fire.  Is this something that there could be a subtle hint of too?

By the way, I'll miss that Turret Gun in this shot, but that sure is a terrific background and sky....and pure white too.  I sure wonder what those AT-AT shots are gonna look like now....

Thanks for the update, it's gonna be great.

As for that 'gantry' duel shot, that's amazingly beautiful work....

Wonderful, once again Adywan.  Thanks for sharing.

Matticon, here's the speculative outcome for Luke's 'escape' sequence from 7 months ago, until we finally get Adywan's version, especially since he's confirmed some certain neat additions since then - 

(Note:  it's only an approximate mock-up using a few available elements from the SE dvds.  In hindsight, I could have picked better elements to give doubleofive to use in some cases.  However, he did a great job with what he was asked to use, and managed to place everything exactly where I wanted them, and they give a good enough impression of what I was trying to indicate.  He put in a lot of effort into the rest of the sequence too, on my behalf)  I'll describe some little changes along the way....and the shots that I wanted to have extra elements added to, have been clearly indicated -

....A fleet of Stardestroyers has arrived at Hoth, and the Rebel's ION Cannon is fired at the particular Stardestroyer that guards the 'sector' where the first escaping Rebel 'Transport' is headed for.... 

(Adywan's version will have the ION Cannon firing a light-BLUE 'electrically-charged' laserbolt effect now.   vaderios did a great mock-up of how that could look, a while back) -

(I'd now probably have added an additional tiny Stardestroyer in the distance (possibly the 'Executor') into shots 9, 10, and 11, and have them further up in the right of the frame, than the one shown) -

....luckily, someone has a good aim, where this particular Stardestroyer is concerned....

(Somewhere around here, Adywan intends to have one of the X-Wing escorts end up destroyed by  Stardestroyer fire.  PSYCHO_DAYV came up with that one) - 

....because the Stardestroyer has now been totally 'disabled', allowing this first Rebel 'Transport' to get past the 'blockade'....

(Using a 'JEDI' element, I'd now probably have shown doubleofive's idea, where we eventually see the 'Transport' momentarily 'speed up' and 'stretch' into a blurred 'Hyperspace jump' here, at the end of shot 13, once it clears past the 'disabled' Stardestroyer) 

(Adywan's light-BLUE 'electrical'-laserbolt strike should really improve things around here, compared to the current look) -

....there is now a period where the expected 'ground' attack from several AT-AT / AT-STs (deposited by Stardestroyers somewhere beyond the protective Energy Shield) begins....during which, Luke and some Rebel troops battle valiantly as an 'emergency evacuation' continues throughout the battle....  By the time the Imperial forces eventually overcome the Rebels, storm the Base, and bring the Shield down, there is only a single, last 'Transport' left that has still to escape....  Princess Leia eventually gives the order to totally evacuate the Rebel Base, before Vader and his troops arrive just too late to stop Han, Leia, Chewbacca, and C3PO escaping from the inside of the Base in the Millennium Falcon....which an embattled Luke sees disappearing away from him, from a good distance away from the end of the Base.... - 

....as Luke eventually reaches his X-Wing, the last remaining Rebel 'Transport' is already hurriedly taking off, escorted by 2 other X-Wings.  There is only a handful of stragglers left now, who are all preparing to leave too.... - 

....Luke is finally able to depart from the Hoth Planet, as R2D2 agitates for him to leave immediately....  (it's unclear whether they realise that Vader and the AT-AT snowtroopers are so close now, as they have breached deep into the Base looking for him, and his friends, and the Rebel leaders....) -

....however, the remaining Stardestroyer fleet overhead will still be a threat, and one ship in particular, awaits the return of Vader....

(I'd now probably not have any sign of the 'blockade' in shots 17, 18, and 19, and just keep the reveal of any awaiting Stardestroyers purely for shots 20, 21, and 22) - 

....but fortunately for Luke, the Rebel's ION Cannon has previously managed to create an escape route in this particular 'sector'.... -

(I'd now probably show a still-'electrically-sparking' Stardestroyer as seen pointing towards us (and more towards the planet) as it slowly 'lists' around a little.  I'd have it twice as close to our viewpoint, and higher up on the right of the frame, compared to where it is now, for a better idea of Luke going past it rapidly) -

....unfortunately, Han, Leia, Chewbacca, and C3PO have not been so lucky, when they attempted to leave in a different direction....

....as the 'Avenger' has turned around to catch up with the Hyperdriveless Falcon that managed to evade past it, and nearly got away....

Yes, I had these 2 posts nearly ready to go, and then Ady dropped his 'no 'blockade' news!  Lol.

I thought I'd put them up for Matticon's benefit anyway.

Matticon said:

HOTH ESCAPE:

The Rebel Hoth escape has always kind of annoyed me for one reason. We are lead to believe that the Imperial Fleet establishes a blockade around the planet to catch the rebels escaping. The ion cannon fires, disabling one star destroyer, and then the rebel transport escapes through the hole in the blockade. Luke then pretty much makes his escape like he is on a sunday afternoon drive while the Falcon has to run for its life.

The part that doesn't make sense is that, if a star destroyer was disabled, wouldn't the imperial fleet redistribute itself to now cover the new hole? Why wouldn't the Falcon follow Lukes path out of Hoth? It sure is a lot easier and luke leaves Hoth less than 1 minute after the Falcon does. Personally I think, TPM gets the blockade thing right with forcing the Naboo starcruiser to blast past the Trade Federation ships.

How do we solve this then?

1)Perhaps more disabled Star Destroyers?
2)Have a more exciting escape for Luke?

3)Show that Vader distributes his fleet to chase after the Falcon letting the other rebels go?

Just some thoughts.

Matticon.

 

 

Some fair enough points there Matticon, and I'd like to address some of them, as this is a sequence I'm especially keen to see Adywan's version of eventually.

The way this whole sequence is currently constructed onscreen, throws up a few questions about the Fleet's numbers and positioning over / around the Hoth Planet in general....    There is also the question of whether the single ION Cannon just fires several times in the SAME direction every time....OR is it able to easily change the direction it aims at, and therefore capable of disabling Stardestroyers in various surrounding positions, allowing for DIFFERENT escape routes?.... 

Regards a couple of things though, I don't reckon the Millennium Falcon would follow Luke's path, because the crew probably had no idea of where he actually was, at the time they blasted out of the Base....and he hadn't taken off yet....  With the Imperial troops storming the Rebel Base and  breathing down their necks, Han probably just blasted away from the planet as quickly as he could, with a view to making a rendezvous with the others whenever possible, and likely just chose his own route when heading towards space.  If the ION Cannon was capable of shooting in various directions at different Stardestroyers, then Han was just unlucky it hadn't previously targeted either the 'Avenger' or the 2 'oncoming' ones, that were in the vicinity of his chosen route by this time....  (However, I usually think of it as clearing a path in roughly the SAME 'sector' of the 'blockade' each time, around about where the initial Stardestroyer was targeted, which works fine)

As far as the number of NON-disabled Stardestroyers still around to 'blockade' Han and Luke's chosen escape routes, it depends on how many ships the ION Cannon might have targeted during the bulk of the intervening battle since it's first salvo....  There is approx. 6.5 minutes of ongoing (in 'real-time' I'd say) action that happens in-between the first Stardestroyer being disabled, till when the 'Command Centre' operators start to evacuate the Base....and approx. another 1.5 minutes on top of that before the Shield is taken down by General Veers.... (just after either of these events, which come near the end of the battle, the ION Cannon might then have been destroyed by either an AT-AT /AT-ST, or targeted by a Stardestroyer from above....unseen by us.  Either way, it could be argued that the ION Cannon would probably have disabled a few other Stardestroyers in the intervening time, to protect some other Rebel 'Transports' that evacuated too....)  However, it also depends on how many, or how few Stardestroyers actually travelled to the Hoth System in the first place....  This number is unknown to everyone but Adywan at the moment!

If for instance, we keep to the amount of Stardestroyers seen in the initial shots of part of the Fleet gathering, it could be argued that there are about 9 or 10 individual ones (including the 'Executor') actually shown onscreen in that vicinity.  If we go by that number, then that doesn't seem over-many ships to cover all potential escape directions....never mind having to re-distribute some to them to cover the positions of any ION Cannon- damaged ones.  So this could account for why the current shots of Luke escaping, make it look easy - He happened to be one of the last to leave, after the ION Cannon had an opportunity to disable a few of the Fleet by this time, and there might not have been more than 10 to begin with, if you go by the EXISTING onscreen footage.... 

I don't know if Adywan is going to totally replace any shots / or put in an extra establishing shot or two in-between the current shots in this sequence, or not....OR if he only wants to add extra elements into the EXISTING shots....but the following post shows a rough idea of how the EXISTING shots of Luke's escape could just be added to in some way, to elaborate on how he might have gotten away so easily -

adywan said:

Where are all the Imperials? well they're off chasing the falcon. Vader has returned to the executor for the pursuit. Now  3 stardestroyers try to trap the falcon , and with the amount of ships we see approach HOTH that doesn't leave any for a blockade after one has been disabled. So luke is able to escape without any problems, so no blockade. Vader is using the whole destroy the rebels to find Luke without the Emperor knowing what his true agenda was so after he thinks Luke has escaped he probably wouldn't have cared less if they are all captured or not.

Adywan says "....so no blockade"  

WHAAAAAAAT???   Now that sure doesn't fit in with the 'canon' of change no. 23 on your page 1 list....  ;)

Well this is another VERY interesting update Ady, if a little unexpected.  (I should've guessed! :) )  

There is something I'm still not clear on, but I'll come back to that.... 

First, I'll describe what I've always imagined this whole Fleet 'numbers' thing as being like previously - 

This is the first shot of the Fleet starting to approach the Hoth System after coming out of Hyperspace, since we saw the initial bigger 'gathering' earlier on, which included a few more ships than seen here.... -  

....and although there are only 4 Stardestroyers (including the 'Executor') seen during this particular shot above, I've always imagined that the few other Stardestroyers that were seen in the initial 'gathering'shots (I've always made it another 5 or 6, because of  the way I view the shots), are spread out unseen and 'off-screen' at the side and rear of the nearest 3 ships to us here....

As to when a more impressive 'blockade' should start, I always thought of it as being from this shot below, onwards....which then would still be in place right up to the shot of Luke blasting away from the Hoth Planet too.... -

But if I've understood this correctly, I can see your reasoning for Vader and his main motives about the Millennium Falcon, and can see how there is enough time in the current footage to imagine him giving fresh orders for the Stardestroyers to immediately concentrate on the Falcon only, before we see Luke blasting off in his X-Wing!  Problem solved for Luke's straightforward departure, with no extra added elements needed....  I reckon the last 'Transport' that finally blasted off too, may have also gotten away unhindered, if the Stardestroyers responded quickly enough....  However, Monroville's comments on this sound equally relevant too.

I'm a little confused about these 2 things though, if I'm getting you right (and I'm not even sure I've got the 'Luke's X-Wing escape' thing right yet either!) - 

1.   If you are going to just go by the amount of Stardestroyers in the top 'approach' shot as it currently is, then once one of the ships is disabled just before the AT-AT battle starts, there are only 2 'standard' Stardestroyers left.  One of these can be the 'Avenger' that follows behind the Falcon, but that leaves us one 'standard' Stardestroyer short to account for the 2 other 'oncoming' ones....OR....are you planning to add another ship into the 'approach' shot?...OR....is a 'bigger' Fleet to be imagined as being unseen and 'offscreen' in that shot, like I normally see it?....OR....are either the 'Avenger' or the 2 other 'oncoming' Stardestroyers meant to be additional, different ships to the 4 initially seen in this 'approach' shot, having been ordered to come from another part of the Fleet to join Vader's chase?

2.  If you ARE intending to add another Stardestroyer to the initial 'approach' shot, to make up the numbers to account for the 'Avenger' and the 2 other 'oncoming' ships....it's most likely that the ION Cannon has been able to disable more than one 'blockading' Stardestroyer during the whole length of time that the AT-AT battle lasts, right up until the point where the 'Command Centre' operators are ordered to evacuate....  Having said that, perhaps the few on show in the 'approach' shot 'veered away' from harms way after what happened to the Stardestroyer that was disabled by the ION Cannon....  That seems unlikely though, as mid-way through the AT-AT battle, Leia and the Rebel General are concerned that the ION Cannon won't protect 2 'Transports' at a time (past the 'blockade'), and at the end of the AT-AT battle, Leia tells Han that she doesn't think his 'bucket of bolts' will ever get them past the 'blockade'....  

On a purely visual note, I'm also wondering about what your 4 Stardestroyers in the top shot above, are meant to be doing in any of the EXISTING shots.  Are they all positioned pointing directly towards the Hoth Planet at this point, perhaps slightly spread out from each other?  I'm not asking for a reply to that, I'm just wondering aloud.... 

Also, the single Stardestroyer that we see in the bottom shot above, might be meant to be the smallest one in the top 'Fleet approach' shot, that is seen nearest the Planet at that point.  This could be the same single Stardestroyer that is also hit by the ION Cannon.  It seems to point directly towards the Planet somewhat, which was the direction the 'Transport' came from, after all.  If they are all positioned like this, then it would come across as a 'blockade' of sorts, even if they are only 4 in number.  Leia certainly thinks it's one....

Questions....Questions....

Loved those shots of the behind-the-scenes 'gantry' background backdrop, and the unused one of Luke, by the way Adywan.  Hadn't come across either of those before.  :)

Deckard2 said:

So the Empire's main attack is striking the base from the North and the escaping rebels are located on the South side of the base. The Shield generator and Command center are both located on the North side.

I'm not sure that's correct, but I've just realised I've gotten something confused in my earlier reply to you -

It's a little unclear, but it seems that the area where the last Rebel troop carrier leaves from (we can make out it already has 2 accompanying X-Wing escorts), before Luke gets into his X-Wing, is also referred to as being somewhere at the NORTH side....because we initially hear Leia telling the assembled X-Wing Fighter Pilots that "All troop carriers will assemble at the north entrance", before she then goes on to tell them that there will only be 2 fighter escorts per ship, and that they will have to stay very close to them because the Energy Shield can only be opened for a short time.  (They are all standing near some X-Wings somewhere inside the Base during this discussion, and we can also see the Millennium Falcon and a snowspeeder in this same area...and I presume that all X-Wings in this area are meant to start grouping nearer to the area where the 'transports' are located at, from this point onwards). 

A bit later on, when it's announced that the first 'transport' is successfully away, we see Luke and some other Snowspeeder Pilots prepare to meet the AT-AT's, and can see more X-Wings in their departure area at this point.  (It's not known how many X-Wings are scattered throughout the expansive Base)  Presumably there are also OTHER unseen 'transports' leaving during the ensuing battle (accompanied by 2 fighters every time), as the ION Cannon continues to clear a path for them through the Stardestroyer 'blockade'. (It's not known how many Stardestroyers are destroyed during this period, or how many transports and X-Wings take off, although it seems that 2 'transports' at a time have to start going at the same time mid-way through the battle) 

However, later on yet, shortly before the last remaining 'transport' takes off, Han has travelled an unknown distance from where the Falcon is, to reach the 'Command Centre' where Leia is.  During this scene she says "Send all troops in Sector 12 to the south slope to protect the fighters".  This is the 'south slope' area I previously thought as being the area where Luke heads to get into his X-Wing, and where the last 'transport' is seen taking off from.  I think I got that wrong, and the 'fighters' mentioned by Leia as being at the 'south slope' are NOT the likes of Luke's X-Wing in the area of the last 'transport', as I originally thought.  So the area that Luke heads for, and takes off from, must be the NORTH area that was initially mentioned by Leia!  I think....

adywan said:

vaderios said:

The moon idea is good. It adds a character

Also i had an idea:

When the AT-AT fell wee see the rebel soldiers running and one say C'mon!

It will be cool if after the crash some snowtroopers had escaped of the fallen ATAT and heading towards to the rebels.

Just a brief scene. Also the snow speeder to shoot one of them just before it destroy the AT. Just like AOTC when the geonosian fighters killed a clone trooper...

-Angel

i love that idea . not sure how i would go about filming it though. unless anyone knows people who have snowtrooper costumes that can film them against white backgrounds. i have some ideas where added troopers would fit so getting the angles worked out is pretty easy.

Deckard2, another thing is this possibility above, which doesn't conflict with my description, as General Veers orders the debarking of snowtroopers AFTER this scene.  The AT-AT that Luke blows up would have NO snowtroopers inside it though, as they were already ordered to debark earlier, approx. 2.5 minutes BEFORE Luke brings down that AT-AT.  (and had already successfully breached the Base by this time, it seems)

Deckard2, I've just had to amend a couple of things that I missed out in my last post after you replied.  I'm quite satisfied that this explanation reads okay now.  Whether it works for anyone else is another matter.  :)

Don't worry about what the book said though, as the onscreen action makes it look like it is definately General Veers AT-AT that destroys the Generator.

As far as Han and Luke potentially putting themselves in danger's way, I guess they 'volunteered' to do it, just as they continued to do in 'JEDI'.  Who better to handle any potential threats that were out there?

Deckard2 said:

HOTH ESCAPE:

One thing that always bothered me, Luke blows up the AT-AT and then the next screen he is getting in his X-wing to go to Dagobah?

Wouldnt he be surrounded by stormtroopers? And how does he get to his X-wing and the other rebels without having resistance from the Empire attack force?

Deckard2, I'll have a go at how I've always liked to view this one, judging by the actual onscreen sequence of events -

We only see 5 AT-AT's (and then a following AT-ST - or is it 2 different ones?) as they approach from only one general direction towards the extensive Rebel Base / and it's Power Generators onscreen.  Each of these AT-AT's is carrying a small contingent of Infantry snowtroopers inside of them, as the AT-AT's move ever-closer to their target, which turns out to be quite heavily defended by snowspeeders and various Rebel firepower.  (I've always looked on all the various action and scenes in the battle as happening in 'real-time', by the way)  

Eventually, General Veers tells Vader's hologram "You may start your landing" and that he has reached the main Power Generators and that he'll have the Shield down in moments.  (I always think that he says 'moments' to Vader, as his AT-AT is almost near enough at this point where Vader contacts him for a progress report, but not quite close enough yet to properly destroy it immediately)   So approx. 2 minutes later into the battle, General Veers orders an Infantry snowtrooper beside him that "All troops will debark for ground assault", as he prepares to target the main Generator at this point.  Then approx. 50 seconds after that, Luke crashes his Snowspeeder.  (All the debarked AT-AT troops are already off and running towards getting into the Base from a DIFFERENT direction by now) Then approx. 50 seconds later after this, we hear an announcement saying "Imperial troops have entered the base".  (The AT-AT troops have succeeded)  Then approx. 45 seconds later, we see a now on-foot Luke blow up an AT-AT.  Eventually, approx. another 30 seconds after this, General Veers finally blows up the Generators. (Another thing that has probably held up his firing at the Generators a little sooner during these few minutes, is that he has probably had to contend with a lot of defending firepower aiming towards the AT-AT windscreen, which could be a weak point)

During this time before the Generators are blown up, I like to believe that the amount of snowtroopers that quickly debarked from the AT-AT's BEFORE Luke crashed (unseen by us during Luke's still ongoing snowspeeder action, probably all rapidly 'rappeling' down to the ground), were at this point concentrating on heading off in a DIFFERENT direction alongside the EXTENSIVE Base, to infiltrate it, rather than go straight ahead towards the strong Rebel firepower we see in front of the portion of the Base we see onscreen.  And Vader who lands just afterwards (when the Shield is finally down) has linked up with some of these AT-AT troops who first stormed the inside of the Base on ANOTHER section of the Base, compared to the portion defended onscreen....with the intention to capture Leia, Luke and the other ringleaders that Vader thought might be inside there.  

(However, I can never decide if the majority of the Rebel troops and Snowspeeder pilots are taken up with the AT-AT attack on that particular section of the Base while this separate attack is going on....OR....if there were an equal amount of defending Rebels and firepower on this other side also....that just couldn't stop Vader and his snowtroopers from breaching the Base....)

Either way, we don't see hundreds of snowtroopers onscreen, just a few with Vader, and they have concentrated on getting at whoever's inside of the Base first, during the time that we see Luke blow up an AT-AT on the outside, before he then heads for an as-yet-unassailed position near one side of the extensive Base, where the rest of the retreating Rebels are leaving from, and where his X-Wing awaits too.

It's good luck that Luke just happens to be now outside of the Base at this point, at a distance away from Vader and his snowtroopers, as he makes his way to where the the last of the Transports and his X-Wing are positioned (referred to as 'the south slope' by Leia who ordered some troops to protect the fighters there, earlier).  No doubt Vader and his snowtroopers (or the AT-AT's, if able to access this area) would have reached this position very shortly afterwards too....and R2D2 was right to be agitated.

Maybe this can help a little. 

doubleofive said:

darth_scourge said:

ImperialFighter said:

vaderios said:

Hmm Oups?

-Angel

 

 

The shot on the left is from the '04 DVD and was given the altered BG for the '97 SE. The shot on the right is the BG from the OUT. Clearly someone from Lucas farked up during the SE - unheard of isn't it? I'm sure Ady can clean this up very easily. I like Imperialfighters suggestions for improving the detail on the set.

 

The left shot was added for the SE?  I haven't watched the OUT since 1997, but that doesn't seem right.

Sorry darth_scourge, but I've checked, and doubleofive is right on this. 

These 2 different 'gantry' angles and their respective coloured backdrops are exactly the same as above on the GOUT DVD release too.  Actually both versions get shown more than once during the sequence.

And just another little thing I didn't really notice till I looked at the more vibrantly coloured GOUT version (although it's like watching it through a 'haze' compared to the SE version!), is the fact that the 2 pairs of double red lights at the base of the 'Vane' are unblinking when we first see them, but during the shot showing 3(!) pairs underneath as Luke falls, they DO blink....  So again, some consistency would be nice.

vaderios said:

Hmm Oups?

-Angel

vaderios, I've been meaning to mention a couple of things about this sequence, and will use the 2 recent shot examples you've shown here as an opportunity to do so.

First though, I believe you were just referring to the surrounding 'wraparound' backdrop as being different, because apart from the different colouring between the shots, the actual 'gantry' set looks the same by the time we see the shot on the right shown above, although it's filmed from far less of a 'birds-eye' view, and much more to the right of it, compared to the shot on the left, causing a shortening of the shadows cast.  As you later said, we do revert once again to the shot on the left (when Luke let's go and starts to fall)

However, apart from the duller flashing yellow 'ganty' lights in some shots which Adywan has confirmed he will try to brighten-up (it's not clear from these screenshots shown, but the 'dulled' ones in the left shot flash a 'pinkish' colour, compared to the vibrant yellow shown during the right shot), here are some other things to do with the 'gantry'/ and it's 'surrounding backdrop' that have always caught my eye -

1.  Some shots (usually the 'dulled' ones) seem to have all the smaller random backdrop lights in a LIGHT ORANGE colour, whereas other shots have a (far better-looking in my opinion) mixture of both WHITE and LIGHT ORANGE coloured lights, as seen in the right shot above.

2.  Some shots (usually the 'dulled' ones) have lines of RED horizontal backdrop lights amongst the smaller random lights, whereas others have these horizontal lights in ORANGE.  And in a couple of others, these lights are just a 'washed-out' WHITE (when Luke walks alongside the 'Vane' to re-enter through the doorway opening, and when Vader and Luke emerge out of this opening just after, as they duel again)  It would be good to have some consistency using either RED or ORANGE for all these shots, depending on Adywan's preference.  (although judging by all the shots, I'd guess it's easier to alter the orange and white ones to RED)

3.  The large (non-flashing) 'yellowish' light that is shown on the right-hand side of the left shot above, is similar to the vertical ones seen during these shots -   when Luke hangs off the 'walkway' / when Luke looks down during Vader talking to him / and during Luke's actual descent downwards.  Although the ones where Luke hangs off the 'walkway' are also 'yellowish', the other shots show them in WHITE....  Again, consistency between all these shots would be good.  (although I prefer the WHITE look myself)

4.  When we first see the 'whole' of the 'Vane' (immediately after the Falcon blasts off from the Bespin platform), it has 2 pairs of double red lights at it's base.  However, during Luke's fall, there are 3 pairs of red lights underneath the 'Vane' now....  I'd like to see the extra middle set removed from this shot to tie-in better with the previous shot.

5.  Immediately before the right shot shown above, there is a 'close-up' where Luke grabs a part of the 'gantry' prop with his remaining LEFT hand, as we hear Vader say "Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father".  There is a short 'adjoining spar' underneath his hand that is missing in this prop shot, but which is evident in the next 'close-up' that comes immediately after the right shot above, where he has turned around while still hanging onto the same section....  It would be neat if this short 'adjoining spar' could either be added (preferably) or removed to tie these shots together. 

Some very nice touches to do with the lightsaber there vaderios.  I really liked this particular brief shot of the Wampa that was added for the SE versions, and I'm hoping that it's kept for Adywan's sequence.

However, although it's claws are correctly black, I'd like to see the 'fleshy/pinkish' colour added to the 'palm' of the paw by Adywan, rather than the black colouring currently shown on the SE version.

vaderios, what I'd really like you to show sometime is a version of exactly the same kind of arcing 'electrical' effect on the 'dish weapon', as it 'powers-up', and also around the laserbolt itself, as was seen in your excellent ION Cannon mock-up. 

Could you replace the existing orange 'powering-up' areas using one or both of the shots above, with a whitish blue colouring with a more vivid blue subtle 'electrical' arcing 'flicking around' the 'round dish' too, at this point.  The same kind of 'electrical' arcing effect would also be subtly seen around the actual laserbolt that heads towards  the AT-AT too, similar to your previous ION Cannon laserbolt.

Although this alone would be a neat mock-up to see, I'd certainly like to see the exact same shots done in these alternative colours too -   one in a greenish white effect with vivid yellow 'electrical' arcing (as implied by the top shot here)....and one in the existing whitish orange as seen above, but with an added 'electrical' arcing in a more vivid orange....and finally, one in a whitish yellow with more vivid yellow 'electrical' arcing. 

Just a thought for fun, and no worries if not.  

vaderios said:

And for ImpFighter:

Considering some sky replacement the beam can be more visible and defined.

I vote for blue :)

 

-Angel

Just checked in to find you'd done the above shots recently vaderios.  Thanks for taking the time to have a go at that, but it wasn't quite what I had in mind at the time. 

I'll describe things a little clearer in the post below.

Kudos on how the cover has turned out.  I love good cover art.

So many great pieces on this thing now.  It's a fabulous project.  :)

Monroville said:

(6) you could simply make the radar guns into smaller ion cannons (not make the dish-guns spherical, but just change the energy glow on the dish to blue) and change their laser bolts into the electrified blue bolts as seen in Vaderios' ion cannon shots a few pages ago.  Maybe you could also show the effect of an impact where the ion blast seeped through the armor and a leg stops moving or begins to stutter or slow down - Vaderios: I was wondering if you could create a mock-up of this concept with the above pictures.

It actually crossed my mind at the time, to suggest these small weapon systems could be like 'shorter range' ION cannons, when I speculated on altering the colours of the laserbolts from the current 'pinkish'/'rainbow' ones, and that they could have a similar 'electrical' blueish look to vaderio's previous mock-up! 

I guess I ended up focusing on colours that I thought would stand out more against the white/blue backgrounds of the AT-AT battle, but in hindsight I definately should have added that as an option anyway.  (I guess the 'electrical' effect from these ones doesn't necessarily need to be the whitish-blue of the bigger 'long-range' one!)

I agree.  It would indeed be neat to see a vaderios mock-up example of this using these particular shots, if he's willing.  Ideally I'd love to see 4 comparison colours of the same version he could come up - 'greenish yellow', 'whitish orange' (seen above) , 'whitish yellow', and yes, his 'whitish blue' too.  But I know that's a big ask.  Even one would be nice to see though.

As far as this whole backgrounds/skies issue goes, it's not something that has ever troubled me personally.  I can certainly see the appeal of it all having some kind of total consistency throughout, but I know the whole amazing sequence was just akin to being a tabletop or 2 covered in baking soda, with a piece of artwork behind it at the end of the day.  I've always been more interested in additional touches being applied to the elements within these inconsistent surroundings, such as the AT-AT's themselves, and therefore Adywan's extra touches during the sequence will no doubt be just what I'd hoped for.  If he somehow plans to convert the existing backgrounds into some sort of '3 Dimensional' version of vaderios recent 2D 'cyclorama', then I would be dumbstruck, as that is far and away beyond anything I'd expect him to attempt.  

He's going to be able to ramp up this sequence even more than it is already, in plenty of other ways though, Gawd bless 'im.

vaderios -  that is a fabulous concept with the 'falling AT-AT' there, but then the following shots of it might also need to be worked on to tie-in with it too.  And liking your idea of some 'camera shakes' in some shots, as well.  Loving your skills on these things.  :)    

vaderios said:

 

This pic is completely wrong. Because the bridge isnt there and these windows are looking at the wrong side...

-Angel

You'll be glad to know that Adywan is certainly aware of this, as it's been well addressed in the past.

In fact vaderios, you might be interested in the rest of the 'mock-ups' that were nicely put together for me by doubleofive at the time, as a bit of fun speculation concerning the 'Stardestroyers Blockade' scene and beyond, as well as some of my comments about it -  

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-TEASER-TRAILER-CLIPS-AVAILABLE-NOW/topic/9060/page/108

I'm really interested to see how Adywan's version of this sequence eventually pans out!

Adywan -   about this 'Moons' thing...

Do you reckon that we should see any of them in any of the other Hoth planet shots shown in the above posts?  It might be a very nice subtle addition.

I don't know what 'Sector' Luke escapes from here, but would these Moons be visible in the other views of the planet that we also see during the 'Stardestroyer blockade'?

(Having said that, you might be removing them from this shot for all I know!)

By the way, that recent AT-AT post shouldn't take too long to read, as it's just got a lot of example shots throughout.  I think there's one or two relevant things in it though.

vaderios said:

The moon idea is good. It adds a character

Can it be TWIN moons?  That would be really good! 

The Hoth planet shot below shows a big one and a smaller one....