ImperialFighter

In addition, your new shots have also helped to re-inforce the idea that the area indicated above in this 'behind the scenes' shot, is not the Bridge after all, but rather seems to be a separate area beyond the 'control room' section.  It certainly always looked like that to me, seeing as it seemed to show a somewhat different 'interior' going on in the movie....which is even somewhat evident in this shot, I reckon.

adywan said:

Well i have solved the issue i was having with the placement of the Executor bridge and the control room. It came to me the other night when i was looking at the final shot in the movie of Vader waking off the bridge and down some steps. Why not change the background to include the control room. this would explain how Vader got to the control room from the bridge in the probe droid report sequence. All i had to do was change the background for the final shot and add steps to the wide bridge matte shots. sorted.

"All I had to do...."  Heh, heh, you make it sound so easy Adywan!  Great stuff once again.  This entirely ties-in with what I always imagined as being the general layout, when we first see the Bridge in the movie, now.

Lovin' the 'flipped' shot too, by the way.  (Although it took me a while to get onboard with the 'flipped' shot of the 'Stardestroyer firing at the manouevring Falcon' in your 'ANH:R', I've grown very much accustomed to it your way now.  Guess I just had to 'unlearn what I had previously learnt'!)  I think that certain 'flipped' shots can add a little 'freshness' if they don't contradict anything along the way, and it will be interesting to see any more that appear in the future.

vaderios, I meant to say that this looked quite neat!  Although the 'width' seems to be very thin here, this nearest 'Vent Pod' does give an example of the side that I always thought the window should have been positioned on, compared to the interior shots....albeit that the long 'extending support arm' should be more in line with wherever the window is positioned, of course.

Darth Wagner said:

One more issue for ESB - fans which i like to mention was cosed by this "wrong floor" problem of accessing the Vent pod. Step by step please now, very dangerous issue. It's called "intercutting".

@Imperial fighter: I tried to find any reason for flipping any image in a Vent pod till Platform duel-part. The only one I saw was the completely wrong tunnel-direction Luke is stepping out from. I couldn't find ANY other reason to flip anything else really, because everything else looks exactly where it should be.

As I said before, there may theoretically be more tunnels Luke goes trough to come to the round window chamber and not only that long one in extended access arm, tunnels and elevators which bring Luke not only to higher floor but also to exit the tunnel from almost opposite direction to the extended access arm, because someone designed the room that way (no foult on anybody).

What brings me to another issue. I have a very good reason to suspect that it wasn't planned to look "wrong" way on the end, and it just came to my mind WHY because it was an issue on my my own recut of ...The Phantom Menace.

In one of Star Wars Documentaries about making ESB Kershner talks about how the first version of a movie was much more intercutted between different action places and "it just didnt work" so they had to recut it again in a completely different, much slower manor (that means remaining on the same place of action for longer time so people watching could have more time to feel and identify with characters wich keeps the tension high rather then jumping all the time from place to place and all you can see in a short cut is a group of people running trough a corridor like later in Ph. Menace).

The new result was much better for everybody then, and they left it this way, connected it trough sounds and music and we all loved it exactly this way because it was like magic. Of course I would like it to stay that way. 

Now... back to our tunnel - floor problem. I suppose that the Duel sequence "Carbon chamber - Tunnel - Round Window Chamber" , in final film presented as ONE was in the first edit intercutted in TWO and it looked like this: "Carbon Chamber - Entering tunnel (maybe even some walk trough it so we see how long it is) - INTERCUT Leia and Chewie running around to save Han - Luke exiting another tunnel after elevator or something - Round Window chamber duel". In that version there were no soundeffects suggesting that the  tunnel is ca 20 m long and is in the same room/place/hall as round window chamber etc. (if there were any at all at that stage).

In second and final, slower intercutted ESB edit two different duel places are in one scene and Luke's approch between them looks wrong despite they tried to cover it by showing the Vent pod from outside (suggesting direction of a long(!) tunnel) much later after Luke falls out a window plus long intercut with Leia & co.! And, admit it, folks, as you first time saw this movie, you didn't think go like "oh that's how  Vent pod looks like from outside, so the tunnel Luke exited 2 scenes before was made in wrong direction!! Bingo!!".

That first more intercuted edit of ESB may be the answer for all geografical problems with that scene, but it would be interesting to ask Lucas or Kerschner... if they remember .... :-)... to find out definitely, among some other things too.

Personally , I wouldn't like any intercutting tempochanging changes in Adywan's version, except it works absolutly great, which he can judge really well, so I trust he will do a good job with this, regardless which way he decides to go with it.

 

 

Hi again Darth Wagner -  I see you've reverted back to a possible 'multi-tunnel'/ or 'lift to another tunnel' proposal to make sense of where Luke exits into the 'interior' shots of the 'Vent Pod'....

Your speculation about how the makers might have originally filmed an earlier version showing a more elaborate enty to the 'Vent Pod' by Luke is interesting....but only another theory at the end of the day.

Even if they did, I can still only go by the existing footage that flows in the movie, which (only my own theory, and not necessarily correct either) gives me the impression that Luke has entered the long 'extending support arm' only, and then exits from it at it's end....directly into the area with the round window on his LEFT, which contradicts the 'exterior' shots.

At the end of the day, whatever Adywan decides to amend or not amend here, will be interesting to see....and I will personally be more than happy with it, considering I know that his edit is going to be my preferred version anyway.

Going back to my 'mirror' method (while 'pausing' the DVD) to quickly check out how the exterior 'Vent Pod' shots would look, if they alone were 'flipped' in the sequence - 

while that's an interesting idea of yours to 'flip' the shot of Luke exiting the 'acess tunnel' instead, so that the window seems to be on his RIGHT side now (like in the exterior shots)....this would cause far too many other problems, and a whole lot more 'interior' shots would also have to be 'flipped' too, to make any sense....

Time will tell. 

EDIT -  Monroville, I think you may have thought that I implied that I believed the 'Carbon Chamber' COULD be accomodated in the 'Vent Pod', going by your reply there.  What I really meant is that I reckon only the 'interior' shots of the rest of the eventual the Vader/Luke duel could possibly fit into it plausibly!

vaderios -  although this angle of the 'width' of the 'Vent Pod' seems to rule out the 'Carbon Chamber' being above it in any way, as some 'schematics' seem to speculate, I think that the 'interior' set shots could just about be accomodated, when looked at closely, especially when you look at the version you've posted on the right-hand side there.

Good stuff.  In Adywan we must trust.

doubleofive said:

*woosh*

That's the sound of this whole thing going over my head.

 Your lucky, lol, it's given me a headache thinking about it this much now! 

Ah, I see what you're getting at now, Darth Wagner.  I take it you mean that if the lower-down 'positioning' of the long 'extended support arm' currently attached to the large 'Vent Pod' structure in the movie was left as it is, that Luke could have reached the end of it (and thus reached the 'Vent Pod' itself), BUT THEN travelled 'upwards' in some way....possibly through a more vertical-angled 'tunnel', or shaft, OR lift, which then eventually connects to, or brings him to the FINAL 'access tunnel' - that he eventually pops out of beside the window.

(This means the 'brief jump ahead' that I mentioned, jumps ahead a lot further than I thought....)

AND I see now that this means that there could ALSO be a case made now, to account plausibly for how he is actually now beside the window shown in the 'Vent Pod' exteriors, which is the opposite of the one I thought it was after all....

I dunno, it seems a bit of a stretch for the flow of the action shown, but I understand that my alternatives mean a few tricky issues for Adywan to attend to.

By the way, in the absence of screenshot examples, check out the 'Vent Pod' exterior shots by looking at them in a 'mirror', to get an idea of the way I think they should ideally have looked from the beginning.

Just an aside -  I originally thought that the circular 'table-like' structure that is beside the 'access tunnel' that Luke exits out of, was missing some of the bits on top of it later on, after Vader has 'broken off' the large piece immediately above it, to throw at Luke. 

I realise now that those same pieces must have been 'ripped off' the top of it (along with other 'debris'), once the window smashed, and there was a sudden rush of 'air compression'!  :)

To finish off with a couple of other things with this sequence that I'd like to see done, if possible -

When Vader 'breaks' off the FIRST large section behind Luke to 'throw' at him....just at the point that Luke strikes it with his Lightsaber, you can make out (if you 'freeze-frame' it anyway - it's also visible in shot 4 of Monroville's 'thumbnail' shots in a recent post, and he has put a rectangle around it) that on the left of the shot, above Vader's helmet, that we see the 'gate' is no longer shut in front of the 'access tunnel' that Luke exited from.  In fact, at this point you can see a little bit of the 'gate' at the top.  Yet later on again, at the point where we are looking at Vader 'breaking off' his SECOND large section to aim at Luke, that the 'gate' looks like it is shut again now!  No biggie though.

What has always been a biggie to me though, is the fact that in the 2 shots preceeding Luke crashing through the window, that the actual window frame 'pattern' is a lot more complete than it is in the shot where Luke hits it.  I know there is a very brief shot in-between, showing the back of Luke as Vader clings onto the 'pillar' opposite the window, and that some of the 'debris' may have smashed more of it during this time....but it seems too short for this to have happened to satisfy me.

I'd love to see the frame 'pattern' added in to be the same as the 2 preceding shots, up until Luke actually makes contact with it, as he falls out!  I reckon this would tie-in far more plausibly because of the briefness of the intervening shot between them. 

Darth Wagner said:

In the movie it's not specified how many tunnels Luke uses to get from the carbon chamber to that round window chamber. Theoretically there  may be more different tunnels Luke uses - that would be an "exuse" for the wrong position of a round window chamber regarding extended arm access tunnel which Luke entered and exited in the movie.

Not quite sure I'm getting what you mean here Darth Wagner.  Surely there is only one  possible route of access to the suspended 'Vent Pod' as far as any kind of 'access tunnel' is concerned, and that is the single long 'extending support arm' isn't it?

Okay, using just this one shot for reference, seeing as it's handy -

The suspended 'Vent Pod' shown here is too narrow to incorporate the 'Carbon Chamber' for a start, and there are also 2 other shots that show the window that Luke fell through as being on the OTHER side of the structure, compared to what the 'interior' shots showed....which is wrong I believe.  The other 2 are when we first 'zoom-in' on the suspended 'Vent Pod', and the other is when we then see a 'closer' shot of Luke making his way back along the narrow 'walkway' towards the entrance, after falling through the round window.

So the simplest thing to do of course, is to 'flip' the shots of the 'Vent Pod's' exterior into reverse, so that the window now seems to be on the side that Luke actually fell out of, according to the 'interior' shots.  (Note:  this particular shot above only shows the extending short 'gantry' that Vader duels with Luke on.  The long 'extending support arm' should be seen added in, going off into the distance behind, somewhat level with where the round window is positioned, to match what is indicated in the 'interior' set

However, although Luke and Vader are small enough in the shots to 'get away' with 'flipping' them....it is still possible to see that Luke is wearing a gunbelt on his right-hand side, and this would be tricky to amend I'd imagine.  On top of this, Adywan would have the issue of Luke also holding his Lightsaber in his right hand to contend with, as he first makes his way back along the narrow 'walkway' after hanging onto to it.  He is seen to touch the side of the 'Vent Pod' a couple of times as he heads along to re-enter it.  Both of these things would also 'reverse' if the shots were 'flipped', and will be tricky to sort.  We'll see what he decides. 

adywan said:

Monroville said:

Also consider elongating this tunnel, since the central vent pod he is descending to is quite a bit further out from the central vent walls in the following outside shot (seen below).


CENTRAL VENT POD FINAL FIGHT:

There are some architectural issues going on here.  As you can see in #1, you can see the tunnel Luke came in from in the previous scene (you can see it connects at a diagonal -30°).  #2 has an arrow to show where this tunnel is/ where Luke came from.  #3 has an orange box around the window Luke will be thrown out of.  #4 you can again see the tunnel hatch from where Luke came from.

#5 is where the problem begins.  The orange hash-mark shows where the vent pod SHOULD be connected to the main shaft; yet the connection is much lower.

My suggestion is to move the connecting arm to the upper part of the pod to accomodate the tunnel Luke comes from, and move the platform Luke is holding onto and the gantryway that Luke loses his arm on to the lower area of the pod.  This gives Luke a greater distance to fall (@ a 40 foot drop as opposed to 5 feet right outside the window) as well as give Vader some levels to go down to get to Luke.  It would also give Luke the possibility of escape as well as negate any chance of hiim just climbing back into the window he was thrown out of.

#6 suggests moving the window Luke came out of higher to accomodate the gantry arm being moved to the lower area of the pod.

the whole problem with the vent and the position of the carbon chamber , i really don't know how i'm going to tackle this. in the cutaway illustrations they have placed the carbon chamber in the dome above the window, but this doesn't make sense as where the hell are the corridors that luke followed Liea and the gang through before being elevated upwards into the carbon chamber. it all doesn't make sense at all. the only idea i had is that before he enters the small tunnel, instead of seeing the last few frames of him climbing down a ladder, that i add him coming out of some sort of lift, but that still doesn't really sort out the problem. I'm probably going to have to redesign the whole vane matte shots to try and bring some believability to the whole sequence.

 

Okay, I'll admit that I'm officially confused about the sequence of current shots here in 'Empire', and am pretty hacked-off with the overall 'continuity control' here, if my suspicions are right!  However, I'll see what everyone else thinks on this, especially Adywan -

Firstly, compared to what we see in the actual movie, I have to say that I've never ever agreed with ANY of the 'schematic cutaway layouts' that make out that the 'Carbon Freeze Chamber' set is positioned somewhere above the round 'window' of the suspended 'Central Vent Pod' that Luke crashes through eventually....  I've never paid them any attention to them whatsoever, irrespective of what they claim! 

My own starting off position on this, has ALWAYS been that the 'Carbon Freeze Chamber' (and the entrance into it) is instead located 'somewhere' in the surrounding 'wrap-around' structure....and is 'somewhere' above the position of where the start of the long 'extending support arm' to the large 'Vent Pod', begins on that 'surrounding' structure.

Therefore I always see it that when Luke jumps down off the 'platform' (Adywan is removing his slight 'bounce back up' from the shot), after forcing Vader to fall off it several seconds earlier, that he has gone lower down to look for Vader and comes to the start of the long 'extending support arm' leading to the large 'Vent Pod', and starts to walk through the narrow 'access tunnel' inside this adjoining 'arm', that lights up as he enters to walk through it.  (As seen in top shot above)    Note:  does that 'schematic cutaway layout' of the 'Vent Pod' in a previous post actually show this 'access tunnel' inside the 'support arm'?  Could be....   

We then cut to him exiting out of the other end of what would have been a fairly long 'access tunnel', and into the actual large 'Vent Pod' itself at this point, where the 'gates' to the 'access tunnel' then shut behind him.  (As seen in bottom shot above)  And like certain other shots in 'Empire', I see this as one of those 'brief jump ahead' cuts which gets to the relevant action quicker, before we continue in 'real-time' again.  (Vader of course, had gotten there the same way, just a little beforehand, as he had several seconds start on Luke, before Luke followed down after him from the platform earlier)

However, it's at this point now, that the 'positioning' and 'continuity' start to go out the window (no pun intended) for me, where this whole suspended 'Vent Pod' structure is concerned....  If this has been brought up elsewhere, I haven't noticed, but here's the thing then -

If, as others have agreed, Luke is in fact entering into the 'Vent Pod' from the direction of the 'access tunnel' inside the long 'extending support arm', then that means ALL of the subsequent shots of the outside of the 'Vent Pod' structure are the wrong way round....because the round window that Luke falls through, is on his LEFT-hand side as he exits the 'access tunnel' into the 'Vent Pod'....NOT the RIGHT-hand side that we are currently shown instead!   Ontop of that, as Monroville said, the long 'extending supporting arm' itself should be HIGHER up, more level with the round window on the 'Vent Pod'!!

(Enlarge Monroville's 'thumbnail'shots as seen in the middle above, for a reminder of the interior layout as Luke enters into the 'Vent Pod', and imagine him as having come through the long 'extending support arm')

Now unless Adywan says different, if he decides that Luke does indeed come through this 'access tunnel', and that the 'Carbon Chamber' is indeed 'somewhere' on the other side of the long 'extending support arm'....then this causes a him a few headaches I'd imagine.  I know he's full of surprising ways out of things, but I'll just use the existing footage for an example of what problems this causes him, in my next post, even if he does choose the easiest route out....

Monroville said:

I don't know how this works, but here is an alternative blueprint:



I don't know how the entire carbonite platform would fit inside the very top without completely re-designing the Pod,

There's the little matter of something about this whole sequence that I'm going to try and cover shortly, that I don't remember anyone bringing up yet....and it's a doozy if I'm right.

Ziz said:

adywan: when R2 approaches the doorway i will be fixing the issue of it being impossible for him to enter it. as the door is closing the bottom section will rise

Wouldn't it be easier to just shift the whole thing down so that the notches are level with the floor?  Then it's functionally the same style as the giant garage door at Jabba's place.

Agreed that even this would be neat enough, unless you really want to do the extra work.

adywan said:

ImperialFighter said:

However, I really like that 'close-up' shot of Vader 'from the back' as he looks out....so I'm hoping that rather than removing it totally....that you are instead planning to use part of it, to replace EITHER of the slightly shorter FIRST or SECOND 'close-up' frontal' shots of Vader's mask that come next, as we hear the words "Luke", then "Son, come with me".  The current neat shot of him looking out (with the tiny Falcon amended of course) would definately work very nicely at either one of these points....especially since we are just currently seeing exactly the same kind of 'close-up' frontal shots close together anyway. 

I reckon this new order of shots will look fantastic with your latest one, if you just lose one of these similar 'frontal' shots, rather than lose the Vader 'from the back' shot....

a slightly different shot of Vader from behind now replaces the original due to his position fitting in with the new shots. here's the shots in their final sequence

as you may be able to just make out the falcon now heads away from the executor on the right hand side instead of just heading to the  right as it did originally. It is also animated with TIE fighters chasing it firing lasers.

Ah, thanks very much for previewing your new sequence of shots for this!  Those 2 additional shots (ontop of the recent one you previewed) are terrific, and I'm really pleased you have indeed replaced one of the repeated frontal 'close-up' shots of Vader's mask in the process!

Although I will miss that shot of Vader's 'side on/rear view' as he looks out,  I realise the 'angle' of the big window that he looked out of in the original shot, would not have been able to show the tiny Falcon element travelling downwards towards the 'Executor's' front-right side in front of him, below his viewpoint there.  In your new shots it now looks far more likely that the Falcon will end up very close to the front-side, when we rejoin it's movement approx. 20 secs. or so later in the action.

And I love that you also have added the hint of TIEs firing too!

Just a thought though Adywan, and I might be wrong, as I obviously can't see your sequence 'moving' yet, but.... - 

This is all dependant on where you have the Falcon 'veering' on your top shot above, but in the 2 shots below that, you now have the tiny Falcon showing in the small FRONT window, 2 places along from the FRONT big window....  Would it look better if you had the tiny Falcon element showing in the front BIG window, 3 places along from the FRONT big window, instead?....  It seems that from the position that the distant Falcon is in during the shot that comes next (your new shot of behind Vader's helmet), that this would tie-in better with that shot then, if you put it there instead....as although he is looking out of the FRONT big window, it still seems to be at an 'angle', and is not quite at the point of heading downwards to the 'prow' in front of Vader yet, which the window directly faces, if you see what I mean.

It just strikes me that in the 3rd shot down especially, that the Falcon is seems to be 'going over the front body' of the 'Executor' in front of Vader's viewpoint there (would it even be seen in that particular shot, if you move it in the 2nd shot as I suggest??).  If this is the intention that the Falcon is meant to perhaps 'veer' back to the right a little, so that we next see it very close to the right-hand side of the 'Executor'....then sorry to mention this.  I just always thought that the Falcon would immediately 'close-in' directly to the 'Executor's' side, until the TIEs eventually chase it beyond the 'prow'. 

Your shot sequence looks great now though, and is a huge improvement on everything before! 

Some of your other plans sound amazing too, and you definately deserve your 'cameo' onscreen.  How very 'Hitchcock-ian'....

Some interesting suggestions, once again, Monroville.  It's always fascinating to see what Adywan's own final choices are out of everything that members here put to him.  His choices are usually things that no-one else had thought of, and turn out for the best! 

Darth Lars said:

adywan said:

s you may be able to just make out the falcon now heads away from the executor on the right hand side instead of just heading to the  right as it did originally. It is also animated with TIE fighters chasing it firing lasers.

If it is heading right, and Vader is standing by the front face of the viewport looking forwards, then the entire viewport section that we are seeing must be facing starboard?

I was under the impression that there was only one bridge section, and it was facing forwards.

I'm not exactly sure Darth Lars, but I think that Adywan means that in the original shot of 'Vader looking out of big window' (as shown recently in one of the shots in the post by vaderios), that if you looked on it as being the SIDE big window, then the Falcon was travelling downwards to the left towards the front right-hand side of the 'Executor'....

(However, if you looked on that original shot as being the FRONT big window, then it looked as if the Falcon was travelling to the left ACROSS the front body of the 'Executor'!)

All is now well, and the Falcon does indeed seem to travel (downwards?) on the starboard side below him, as he watches from the FRONT big window for sure.

vaderios said:

The whole smashing idea of executor hits an other capital shit and all the remain pieces hit DS sounds cool!

Good idea!

-Angel

I'd sure hate to be around when all that capital shit hits the fan....  ;)

Thanks for posting these ideas of yours vaderios.  Some nice concepts there, and it sure gives a sense of anticipation about what possible tweaks Adywan will eventually have in store for us, come this particular battle.

Lol, but I'd certainly love to see a slightly 'goofy gopher'-less, slightly 'monkey business'-less, 'overly-bouncing fridge'-free version of this Indy movie!  (with better colouration than was released....)

Monroville said:

but yeah i agree most imperial stormtroopers couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat

WHAT?!?!  Someone agrees with me on something?!  And I don't have to add 10 links or images to back up my case to the millisecond?

 Lol, by the way.  ;)

vaderios said:

How is possible that the MF travels all along the side of the executor, reaches the nose and vader can see them so big from the bridge? Not only the distance but the MF is not possible to be visible from the bridge cause of the diferent position of the ship. Impfighter correct me if im wrong :)

Okay vaderios, I said I'd get back to you about this with an answer.  I don't know if it's the right answer or not, but it is an answer -  

The problem is, that I don't know for sure if you were refering to Adywan's new shot of Vader at the front big window, or not....or if you meant the original 'close-up' behind-of-Vader shot where we saw the Millennium Falcon travelling downwards towards the LEFT through the window....  

If you are meaning his new shot, then another problem is that I don't know for certain if it's been slotted into the point that I previously speculated on, or not....nor if the Falcon has been made to travel in the opposite direction now, or not....  

However, for the sake of more speculation, let's say that you meant Ady's new shot....and let's also say that it DOES replace the 'problematic' tiny Falcon shot (well a problem to my personal preferred order of 'positioning' for Vader anyway, as the Falcon was going the wrong way to fit in properly!)....and ontop of that, let's say that Adywan's tiny Falcon is heading towards the RIGHT-side of the frame now....

In that case, I can only offer that the sequence now looks something like this, and would flow fine (although you'd have to watch the 'movements' of the current shots onscreen to get a proper idea) - 

We'd first see the shot of the 3 TIEs firing behind the Millenium Falcon as they make it head roughly towards the Command Tower of the 'Executor' in the distance.  But before the very end of the shot we see the Falcon manage to veer off to it's RIGHT.  It is still a good distance away from the front of the 'Executor's' Tower at this point I'd say. / Then we cut immediately to Adywan's new shot, where his tiny Falcon can now be seen heading towards the RIGHT of the frame instead.  Judging by the size of his tiny Falcon element, I'd say it seems fine after you've seen it in conjunction with where the Falcon was last seen generally veering towards, in the previous shot. / You then have approx. 20 seconds or so of Vader 'communicating' with Luke, and some 'Falcon Crew' shots, before we eventually see the Falcon again....where at this point, we now see that it's very close to the front of the RIGHT-side of the 'Executor's' prow. During this intervening time, I'd say that the Falcon has eventually continued to veer towards the front body of the 'Executor' enough for it to be seen in the new Vader shot, as it then dives downwards in front of Vader's view, towards the front RIGHT-side of the 'Executor's' very long body, in front of where he stands....where it then ends up following alongside the RIGHT-side of the 'Executor'....sticking very closely to it, until the TIEs eventually chase it past the 'prow' altogether..... 

Well, that would certainly work for me a lot better than the current shots vaderios, but as I say, I really don't know if this is the sequence order of shots that is actually going to be done, or not.

By the way, I can't remember who first suggested the idea of Lando and the Falcon NOT surviving, a while back....was it really Adywan?   Mmmm.  Could work out neat, but I guess it will depend on whether Ady wants the saga to end on a bit of a downer, or not.  Personally, give me that seat-of-the-pants 'triumphant' existing outcome, anyday!

Meanwhile, I've got some AT-AT screenshots to sort out.  :)         

adywan said:

I've also fixed the control panel that breaks away when the stardestroyers collide (thanks seven for pointing that one out. I totally missed that).

Nice matte by the way, Vaderios. I probably won't be using that matte painting though because it just stands out too much as a painting with the live action. I'm hoping to create a new matte but i may have to build part of the hangar and then photograph it to use as an element to give the matte a more 3D feel

Another fix just done is just after vader cuts off Lukes hand you hear a very faint sound of the lightsabre being turned off, but its so quiet that it looks odd when we see it is off in the next shot. You now see the lightsaber disengage.

....and even more awesomeness.  Can't wait to eventually see your new 'Rebel hangar' shot!  :)

adywan said:

well first, the executor interior problems. Well its not just a few shots that are messed up but pretty much all the bridge scenes. As you can see from the pic below, the bridge is nowhere near the control room and is in fact up the stairs, so the final shot of vader walking down the stairs is correct

So you can see that the first interior shots of the Executor when they receive the probot transmission, Vader should really be coming from up the hallway and not appear suddenly as if he just walked out of shot. as if the bridge is just out of shot. then, later on when they are pursuing the Falcon from cloud city the shots of Piette in the control room are totally out of place. I'm tackling this now by changing a couple of shots to not only fix this, but also the problems with Piette suddenly on the other side of the bridge. Also i have fixed the problem of vader being at the side window one minute and looking out of the front window the next. I have added a couple of brief shots of Vader walking down towards the front window.

 

Impressive....most impressive.....

Adywan, you are several steps ahead of things as usual.  Wonderful work on the new Vader shot above!  That is more than I could have hoped for yet again.... 

But I'd also like to speculate on a couple of things on this (Which I just know is gonna end up a little complicated to follow again!  Anyway, here goes, and pardon my prose) -

Firstly, I'm guessing that since there is a tiny Falcon in one of the windows in your shot above (I'll get back to you shortly on this vaderios), that this shot is going to replace the one where Vader's got his back to us, as he stands looking out of the window at the current tiny Falcon that seem to travel 'downwards to the right' (this was the problematic shot that I previously suggested should be the front big window, rather than a 'side' one).  If this is the case, then I'm very pleased that it will now look as if Vader has moved directly to this 'position' at that point, since we last saw him a minute or so earlier in the 'alcove' section with Piett....as that's the way I always thought it would work best.

However, I really like that 'close-up' shot of Vader 'from the back' as he looks out....so I'm hoping that rather than removing it totally....that you are instead planning to use part of it, to replace EITHER of the slightly shorter FIRST or SECOND 'close-up' frontal' shots of Vader's mask that come next, as we hear the words "Luke", then "Son, come with me".  The current neat shot of him looking out (with the tiny Falcon amended of course) would definately work very nicely at either one of these points....especially since we are just currently seeing exactly the same kind of 'close-up' frontal shots close together anyway. 

I reckon this new order of shots will look fantastic with your latest one, if you just lose one of these similar 'frontal' shots, rather than lose the Vader 'from the back' shot.... 

That's if I correctly judged where your new shot is going, of course! 

And about the 'Bridge' area shot at the top:  please don't 'Force choke' me Ady, but here's a couple of things to consider on that, if you will (and you'll need to use the 'pause' button to look at these!) -

Although that is a 'behind the scenes' photo of course, it seems that during our first look at this area in the movie (when we see Admiral Ozzel coming towards us, and then being called over by Captain Piett)....that the inside of the the area that is indicated as being the 'Bridge' (just beyond the 'steps') by your arrow, actually seems to have a totally different 'interior' look to the one seen in the photo above....but more importantly, ALSO looks different to what the overall inside of the actual 'Bridge' should actually look like....

If you check it out, you can see that there is some kind of different structure and lights in the movie 'interior' there. 

Because of this, I personally always looked on that area as NOT being meant to be the 'Bridge' in the movie, but rather a different area with 'steps' leading up to it, altogether.  That is why I think it is seems fine for Admiral Ozzel to be 'heading' towards the actual 'Bridge'(which we don't see yet) somewhere just before it in this 'mid-section', to join Vader there, just as Captain Piett calls to him.  (Take note of the round 'black and white' structure on the floor of the section directly opposite where Captain Piett is, as I'll come back to it....) 

Anyway, this 'mid-section' area....which is somewhere between the 'steps' leading up to the 'Bridge', and the other area with 'steps', is ALSO clearly seen during the scene where Vader is talking to the 'holograms' (note that you can more clearly see the 'interior' of the other area with 'steps' in the distance here, before Vader heads round towards his 'Chamber' to contact the 'Emperor'....and that when Vader talks to the 2 remaining 'holograms' nearest to our viewpoint, that the area behind him still isn't quite at the point where the 'steps' of the 'Bridge' could be, yet), and well as during the scene where Vader is 'Force choking' Captain Needa....and is also seen in ANOTHER scene that I'm going to come back to....

Also, when when we see the 'close-up' shot of the bottom of Vader's cloak as he goes to exit off where I consider the 'Bridge' to be (towards it's 'steps' presumably, although the previous long-shot has a flat floor!), I personally don't worry about the sudden cut to Vader beside Ozzel and Piett, as I've always looked on it as just one of those 'slight jump ahead' cuts....to get him to beside them in the mid-section' area straight away in the action.  It's just that he happens to come round past another crewmember beside them. 

It's something similar to the instance I mentioned a while back, about the 'slight jump ahead' cut involving the 'Lando walking through the city towards Vader' shots....where the the group goes from 'real-time' walking, to suddenly being in a different area to 'shorten' their journey onscreen....before going back to 'real-time shots as they head nearer to the awaiting Vader and Boba Fett....

Anyway, going back to that OTHER shot of 'positioning' for this same 'mid-section' area I mentioned - 

It seems that you can make out the round 'black and white' structure on the floor, in the distance behind Vader and Piett, just after Vader 'steps down' (from what looks like the narrower 'Bridge' entrance 'set') from the 'Bridge'after ordering "NO disintegrations" to Boba Fett.  This is a clearer look at the the inbetween 'mid-section' that we don't quite see when Vader 'steps down' off the 'Bridge' at the end of the movie.  (Unless it's yet another confusingly-different section of the ship altogether!....) 

See what you think.

I see you agreed about the 'hull' thing then.  ;)

Ripplin said:

Monroville said:

I think that's my biggest gripe is that they are merely dots on the horizon when it would be nice to tell that they are star destroyers (yes, Han tells me that, but I'd like to see them)

In this case, though, if they were clearly visible, it would become a 'master of the obvious' moment. If they're just dots (and the passengers are thinking 'what is that?'), then Han is looking at the instruments and telling his passengers 'star destroyers ahead.' If everyone could see them, it would be like 'no kidding, Han...'

 

I don't know if you remember my previous description about this shot, but Leia is sat directly behind Han at this point in time, and is looking over at what Chewie is doing.  She's quite petite, and it's only when she stands up to come around Han, that she can see what He's just seen.

Also, the Stardestroyers could be even positioned  more slightly to the left, in the 'windows', even further out of her 'eye-line', as they start to come directly towards them.

Hope this helps.

adywan said:

TheTome said:

Adywan, I have a question.  At the end of Empire when the Mellenium Falcon is trying to escape the star destroyer, it seems to get really, really close, and yet it's out of tractor beam range.  Are you planning to do something about this?  Or can something even BE done about it???

Well when Piette says "they'll be in range of our tractor beam in moments.." the falcon is pretty far away. Its doubtful that the Executor would have a tractor beam as powerful as the Death Star so, plus they would have to lock onto the target so i dont' think there needs to be anything done to this.

Would just like to offer that after Piett has said this to Vader....that although there eventually comes the shot of the Falcon (having been previously chased towards the direction of the 'Executor' because of the laserbolts of the 3 following TIEs) where it's then seen to be travelling very closely alongside the front right-hand side of the 'Executor's' prow....that by this point, because it got so unexpectedly close so rapidly... that it didn't 'show up on the scopes' properly for a bit (as with the 'Avenger' earlier), enough for the 'Executor' crew to 'lock on' to it in time....and that it couldn't be located accurately by the 'Executor' crew again until it had been chased past the front of the prow, into it's path ahead....where it was 'picked up' again, and Piette could order "Ready for the tractor beam". 

So would also agree along the lines of what professa said too.