ImperialFighter

Cool beans FF.  Good luck with it.

jones1899, I've frustratingly been unable to get the time yet to cover some various possibilities that I recently worked out. (I'm currently painting/decorating a big house after work)  I'm trying to get the time to organise certain screenshots to better show what I mean along the way, as I have a lot to post here, concerning potential variations for both the beginning and the ending of the movie, where things can be tweaked very differently from the current version.

There are plenty of other moments I've reworked in ways that I'd have preferred in the first place too, but i'll concentrate on the 'beginning' and 'ending' stuff first, as that is what you are most interested in, at this point.

As far as the movie's climax is concerned though, the current theatrical one is just so unsatisfactory in so many ways to begin with....  However, just to let you know, my alternative sequence for Spalko's demise DOES involve using some of the actual 'alien representation' shots, along with a way to streamline some of the more excessive CGI moments into something far tighter, using existing shots, without the need for any digital alterations along the way.  (Except re-colouring perhaps)  That wedding scene can be reworked quite nicely too, into something that outstays it's welcome less....

But this will all take a little more time to put on here unfortunately.

vaderios said:

 

I was wondering where is ImpFighter to say his simple explanation about the hoth chase errors.

I'm just catching up here again, as life's busy at the moment.  I'm not sure what 'hoth chase errors' you are meaning, but I'm hoping to cover a couple of other little things yet over the next few weeks, once I've got the screenshots at hand.

I see that  with everything that is planned for this edit now, that it will not be finished until 2010 sometime.  Given the sheer amount of additional shot fixes/changes that are being attempted, and considering this is basically a one-man show, it's amazing that it could even be ready by then!  This is another herculean effort from what I've seen so far, and it'll be worth whatever the eventual wait.

The new background to this shot has turned out to be a fine addition indeed Adywan.

Glad you liked Sevb32's neat little idea there.  Would love to see one of your changed backgrounds involving the AT-AT battle sometime too, in the coming weeks!

vaderios said:

I double hope for that ;) Considering the continuous Sky/weather/Sun changing.

Fingers Crossed :)

 To be honest, the discrepancies during the current AT-AT battle backgrounds never bothered me too much (apart from that 'destroyed turret' shot which now looks great), and still wouldn't, since I know a lot of the actual AT-AT / Snowspeeder / turret action etc. is going to be ramped-up even more now.

But considering that the existing SE background in the 'Han's taun-taun running' shot was always fine to me, and wasn't something that HAD to be changed, then I'm cautiously beginning to believe, that Adywan doesn't intend to stop there, where a lot of the backdrops are concerned....  :)

adywan said:

Again, this isn't a finished shot because i am still working on this shot as you can see here:

Okay, seeing as no-one else mentioned it yet, I'd just like to say that I love the new background to this particular brief shot! :)

Considering how good the new background looks in the ION Cannon shot too, I just wonder what the final look of some of the shots of the AT-AT battle might also show....

adywan said:

My new ending of ROTJ will have a larger fleet attacking the Death Star, including a few more pilots but also it will tie up the question why there are so many celebrations around the galaxy so quickly after the Emperors death when there would be such a large Imperial presence left in the Galaxy. But you'll have to wait for this because i'm not giving up any hints of the ending until ROTJ:R is released. I want the battle to put the opening ROTS one to shame for scale. that alone is going to cost me a fortune to pull off because i need to build new models and a few full size cockpit sets as well as a few creatures and costumes 

OMG!  As if the anticipation for 'Empire:R' isn't enough as it is....

Unbelievably cool revelations there, but that's for another day / year.

Just caught your post HeKS before I gotta go. 

Unfortunately that's not ideal, as it's a slightly incomplete jumbled scrawl over several pages at the moment, that's pretty detailed, that I have to refine into something more straightforward for everyone to make sense of.  I was rushing to get through as much as I could, so my writings are all over the place at the moment.

Thanks for the thought though.

jones1899, I've woken up early this morning, and have a little time to come on here just now with a quick update for you.

I see from your most recent posts that you still have some problems with certain parts of the movie.  Well I just wanted to say that I've now finally had time to really study a little bit more of it in detail now, and think I've worked out how certain sequences could be tweaked a little for an improved impact.

However, it will take me quite a bit of time to re-write my notes on here in detail, and I don't think I'll get a chance to do it until 2 or 3 days from now, as I have a lot on at the moment, and I know I just won't get the time.  Unfortunately you appear to be very close to 'locking down' your edit now, and you may have completed things before I managed to get back to this.  Nevertheless, I will still post them on here as soon as I can in a couple of days.

As I mentioned recently, I have a few suggestions that could tighten up the beginning into something with more gravitas I believe, and can now also see a very nice possible alternative sequence of shots for the climax too, where some of the CGI excesses are concerned, without throwing the whole baby out with the bathwater.  

And although there is a wholly different ending possible, I also see a way to prune the existing 'wedding' footage down quite a bit to remove certain unnecessary shots, and move things along better to the conclusion I believe....

I've also got my own personal favourite shot sequence for the infamous 'fridge bounce' thing worked out now, as well as a couple of other things, and will put my 2 cents on all that up too.

I happen to have a few other things I'd really like to add to Adywan's 'Empire:Revisited' thread, if I can find enough time, but seeing some sort of hopefully enhanced version of this particular movie also appeals to me.

WOW Adywan, sure glad I stayed up to wait for that!

It blew me away....  So fearsome yet familiar to the original.

I'm sure everyone will love it!  Can't wait to see it in action in the cave scene....

Okay, I'm officially nervous now, as we're only about 5 mins. away from a certain day here in U.K. time....

And with Adywan still officially hungover, who knows what he's capable of....

I just hope that Wampa reveal isn't caught up in it all...   ;) -  http://www.anonymousphilanthropist.com/jots/yetiurbanyetti.jpg

Fantastic news FanFiltration!  :)

jones1899, I'm one of those here that is REALLY looking forward to seeing a better version of this unfortunately flawed entry in the Indy franchise, and by the sound of things your version is coming along nicely in that department.  I like the sound of a lot of your choices you're using out of the various ideas mooted here, and the 're-colouring' itself will be a very welcome thing to see, compared to the garish release....

Anyway, just a quick post to say that I'd hoped to add something of interest to this thread a good while ago, if I got a chance to study the DVD, but a busy family life got in the way.  But at last, I finally made time to make a start on scrutinising it , and am really pleased to say that I can see a few things that could be slightly snipped and re-arranged in certain ways, that could definately improve the whole 'tone' of the current opening scenes of the movie, up to the point where Indy enters the US warehouse.  (It took quite a bit of time to keep replaying certain shots back and forth, and to take notes, so that is as far as I got in the movie last night, lol!)  

No-one has covered these possibilities here yet, and although I'm too pushed for time right now, I'm looking forward to setting out these slightly alternative possibilities in detail over the next few days.  The footage is there, it's just I can see how a far more 'serious' introduction can be set.  I'll be interested to see what others here think. 

I'm going to need to study that whole 'alien / ufo' ending hard tonight, before I give my 2 cents on that.

You're doing great with this already though.  

Some very interesting future plans revealed there Adywan!

Awesome news about what you've decided to show us of your new Wampa.  When I watch it, I'm just going to imagine it as if it's the first time I've ever seen it.  I'll compare the differences to myself analytically afterwards....  ;)

Sluggo said:

One last gripe and then I am done.  No disrespect to our pal Adywan, but he is too well liked, if you take my meaning.  All we see on these threads is "Ady should do this and Ady should do that".  I would love to see some other members on this board step up and learn some of the skills Ady is famous for.  Imagine what could be done if three or four people had his talent.  So it isn't a complaint about Ady, but about pretty much everyone else.  ;)  Not sure why it bugs me, but it does.

I agree with you on that Sluggo, it would be great if there were several 'Adywan types' out there who could work on other different movies that are also well-loved, but in need of a nice fix or two. 

However, it's not just a case of lots of us learning how to use certain software.  What Adywan has in abundance is an artistic skill.  He has a gift for 'composition' and 'layout', and has a clinical eye for detail on top of this.  As far as the technical side of things, it also seems that he is very, very advanced in his knowhow of software in general.  Sure he might need help with certain things, but I believe he's quite exceptional in general. 

Software knowledge without the 'artistry' is not going to give the same results as what we are getting here.  I think that's why quite a few people are keen to add their 2 cents for his consideration, as there is unlikely to be such an enhanced Star Wars project as his particular 'revisited saga' project again.  So we hope it has as many of the little things added to it, that we individually always wished to see.

Who'd have originally thought there was so many potential fixes and changes that could be done on 'Empire:Revisited' when this project started.  There's already been a multitude that we know about, and I'm sure there'll be quite a few yet, that we won't see until the eventual release.

As Sevb32 alluded to, it's just a shame that this level of commitment and thought (and er....obsession) wasn't done in the first place in so many instances to do with the eventual SE of the OT....considering the resources, technical staff, and years of planning that there was at the time....  

Well I hope you stick around this one Sluggo, as there's still a few surprises left in this baby....

I've a few more myself that haven't been covered yet, when I get the time soon.

Without wishing to further continue any 'prequel:REVISITED' speculation, I'd just like to concur with a lot of what professa just posted.  I sure hope that everyone NOW waits until Adywan's first 'PREQUEL' thread appears before anymore lengthy discussions / speculation continue on....

Stick it on the RADICAL PREQUEL IDEAS thread at the moment if you can't wait, or create a seperate one for early speculation / niggles.

I'll look forward to that as much as the next person here, but in the meantime, the NEXT member to bring up something about ANY prequel-related issue whatever, that DOESN'T have a bearing on this 'Empire' thread....is officially a pain in the ass! (excepting anything Adywan brings up about them here, and wishes feedback on, of course)  ;)

Oh, and also excepting any new members that come in after this post, that don't know any better.

Now where are my 'Meds'? 

adywan said:

i'm going to maybe add a faint saber glow on lukes face only in a couple of closeups. the whole glow issue seems to have been overdone a bit in the PT but the bit where they swing the sabers around their heads in AOTC is going anyway so the other glows are so quick you hardly notice them anyway

 

REPLY -  Excellent. That will be a good compromise for the 'Empire:R' shots, without having to worry about every possible surface reflection throughout.  These couple of 'close-ups' of Luke's face alone, will be a welcome, subtle touch.

 

R2's jets are also going in the PT so they won't be added in the OT. I hate all the bloody EU explanations for everything which is why all that crap is staying out of Revisited.

 

REPLY -  At last!  I never did like their addition to R2 in the 'prequels', despite ANY of the 'official' suggestions given for their lack of inclusion in the 'Original Trilogy'.  I'm really pleased that R2 is going to remain grounded in these future edits.  

 

The rotating room is an interesting idea but just wouldn't work. i've been looking over that scene again and the scale of things is all messed up. the cloud car is too big when it reaches the building. either that or the lift on the side of the building is for midgets only. maybe it was the ugnaught only lift. lol. it does need a new matte. i was thinking about shrinking the window a bit but leia needs to be the focal point of that shot so that may not work. plus the window needs to be higher up on the building because the interior ceiling is too low down. Is it worth all the extra work to try and sort out the continuity mess though? i'm not so sure at the moment.

REPLY -  Thanks for the update on this one.  As I recently described, even a little tweaking to the 'interior' detail of the 'apartment window', and the removal of the uppermost 'roof framework' would make a big difference to the existing continuity.  However, if you DO decide to go further, then that's even more than I could have hoped for.

(Oh and Sevb32, regarding your recent request for a 'flipped into reverse' clip of the 'city fly-through' to be put up - just get a mirror out to watch it in, I tells ya, and have those 'pause' / 'reverse' remote buttons at hand)

By the way, has anyone else had any problems with page 300 freezing up half-way through the 13th post down by Dangerous Incorporated?  I seem to remember this happened a while ago, but can't remember what caused it.  Anyway, It's still frozen at my end, and if anyone else can see the whole page, did I miss anything of interest? 

4th post

Adywan, having looked at everyone's comments on this now (although there's been just enough confusion with this one to make my brain hurt again, lol), there's still a couple of things that haven't been brought up yet, if you're aiming to keep the overall existing look of the current SE 'apartment' exterior structure.... 

Firstly, just to clarify -  I agree that Han enters the doorway beside the 'plant in the red vase', and that Chewbacca and Lando BOTH end up entering the SAME doorway which has the 'seashell' beside it, a good distance away from Han's one. (You can just briefly see the'seashell' on the alcove shelf on the LEFT of Chewbacca, when he enters into the apartment with the pieces of C3PO, and it's to the LEFT of Lando when he enters too)

And I also agree that BOTH the 'whole building' seen at the end of the new SE 'Cloud-car city fly-through' (seen in 3rd post above), and the new SE 'apartment' corner-section of the top of that building (seen in the top shot shown here), seem the wrong shape and size to allow for ALL the various corridors seen, and the following walkthrough to Vader's room.  It's a poorly thought-out 'upgrade' from the equally problematic original GOUT version unfortunately....  The SE 'fly-through' scene is a good addition in the main though, and I personally quite like the look of the new 'apartment' exterior, and the bit of movement in the shot compared to the static GOUT version. 

Once again, screeenshots unfortunately don't tell the whole story, and the scenes need to be watched in motion, but both the 'whole building' shot and the 'apartment' corner-section shot, as well as the shots looking up at the interior 'ceiling' pattern, ALL have some 'camera-movements' during them, and would all be quite difficult to amend very much I'd imagine.  I agree with those that suggest getting rid of the uppermost 'framework' on top of the apartment (seen in the top shot shown here) would at least tie-in better with the view seen through the 'apartment ceiling' in other shots, although I'd quite like to see that extra 'framework' detail added above the flat 'ceiling view' instead!  Probably too difficult I know, as there's a lot of movement in those shots, and absolutely no biggie in the scheme of things at the end of the day.

(On the other hand, removing it will make the 'apartment' section more closely resemble that original Ralph McQuarrie artwork that doubleofive linked to recently, AND it seems that the uppermost 'framework' isn't clearly defined on the 'whole building' CGI seen at the end of the previous shot anyway (seen in 3rd post above), so removing it will tie-in with this preceding shot better too!)

Having said that, if you compare the positioning of the tall, fat building (with the 'Cloud-car' platform beside it) in BOTH the shot seen in the 3rd post above, and the top shot shown here, it can be argued that the 'end-section' at the top (and the whole building in general) where Leia's 'apartment' is situated, is quite WIDE, and that the somewhat ROUNDED 'windowed' section we see her pacing in, is actually at the far-corner of this 'wide' top end-section, where we wouldn't necessarily see the uppermost 'framework' in the angle of the preceding shot, anyway.... 

And that leads onto something else -  if you choose to look on the 'apartment window' shot as being the WHOLE 'rounded end' of the top section of the building seen in the preceding shot....then the top section is only as wide as the 'apartment' is (very narrow in other words), and the position of the tall, fat building and platform is SIDE-onwards to the whole of Leia's building....

but if you look on the 'apartment window' shot as being positioned at the far edge of a WIDE top section, then the position of the tall, fat building and platform is facing DIRECTLY towards the end of Leia's building, and matches the positioning seen at the end of the preceding 'fly-by' shot too.  (I REALLY like the idea of something along the lines of the rough mock-up that Davnes007 came up with at the end of the previous page by the way, but again it's tricky because of the 'camera-movement' I suppose) 

Also, shouldn't the single 'wine'-coloured stripe either side of the 'apartment window' area be covering the strips just above and below it as well, to better tie-in with the fatter 'wine'-coloured stripe seen in the preceding shot?  Especially since it was seemingly intended to represent the same structure?  It's just another example of sloppy continuity it seems.

Either way, the fact remains that the various corridors seen, and the following walkthrough to Vader's room still don't match, although slightly less so if you choose to look on the end of the top-section (and the building in general) as being quite WIDE....

Speaking of corridors, check out the various shots of the corridor seen through the opening that Han entered through, during the scene from the point when Chewbacca enters too -  in the top shots seen in the 2nd post above, you can see that the corridor behind Han is 'bluish' and 'rounded' compared to the more 'angular' detail seen when Lando enters where Chewbacca previously did.  Well, it seems that the one that Han came through (and is now sitting beside) is similarly 'angular' in a couple of shots too!  Look at the shot where Han says "Found him in a junk pile?...." for instance, where the stair area is located.  If I'm right and had a choice, I'd prefer to amend the shots of the 'bluish, rounded' ones to be 'angular' too....

At the end of the day Adywan, if it's a case of the bare minimum being achievable here overall, then these would be the 2 MAIN things I'd personally be more than happy to see with the current footage, which would go some way to tying things together a little better -

1.  The removal of the uppermost 'framework' (seen in the top shot shown here), to tie-in more with the 'ceiling view' (seen in the bottom shot shown here), if possible.

2.  Some alteration to the interior of the 'apartment window' shot, if possible -  

Firstly, you'll notice that I've shown your recent layout in my 1st post above.  It's because the top shot showing the 'apartment window' is the one shot that I'd MOST like to see amended out of everything around this scene....but I just happen to see a slightly different layout of it to you....  Not that it matters who is right in this by the way, when you see what I have in mind, because either way, the current layout of 'doors' seen through the 'window' lead to nowhere! 

Okay, here's what's always been my own take on this 'interior' layout, as seen through the 'window' -  while you have certainly correctly indicated the 'door' and 'alcove' positions in the middle and bottom shots, in relation to each other, the line that you have also pointed to as being the corresponding 'door' in the top 'window' shot, is not the same door to my mind, but is instead the door that Han is supposed to have come out of....  Where we seem to differ is that I think you see the tiny detail on show as being the 'objects on the shelves', whereas I see it as being intended to indicate a hint of the top of the 'plant in the red vase' which is roughly the same height, and beside the door that Han entered through.  

(Of course, this makes the current 'window interior' even MORE off-kilter in the scheme of things, as Chewbacca and Lando would have had to come into the apartment using their doorway somewhere around where Leia is facing in the shot, lol!  Again, pretty sloppy the angle it was put into the shot)

However, although the spacing of the shadows are not perfect between the 2 shots shown here, going by the 'angle' of their direction, they seem to suggest that it is meant to be the top of the 'plant' beside Han's doorway that is being indicated in the top 'apartment window' shot.

Also, I happen to believe that the bottom shot shown here, which shows a 'close-up' of Leia 'looking out of a supposed window' is intended to show us an almost DIRECT-on view of the back of the apartment's layout, with Han's doorway on the RIGHT of the shot, and Chewbacca's and Lando's doorway on the FURTHEST FAR LEFT of the shot here.  (Note:  looking at Jambe' unused behind-the-scenes footage of the interior set where Han says "You look beautiful, you should wear girls clothes all the time" (sure glad THAT got cut!), I think that if that particular shot of the set had been used, that we SHOULD have probably had to see a little of the 'imaginary window' at that point (the set didn't seem to have one at all in that clip).  However, I don't think we are quite able to see the edge of it in ANY of the actual footage that was used in the movie, as the camera doesn't pan around enough for us to be able to see it.  I'm content that all's well on that front.

So finally, the ways I'd like to see the existing 'window interior' adjusted would be these -  I reckon the SE hint of 'twisting, glass ornament' that we can make out behind Leia, that is currently on the left-hand side of the interior, should be moved over to the farthest RIGHT of the window, to give it a better 'centrally-placed' look in the overall structure.  This would better match the actual set positioning of it behind Leia in the next shot, to reinforce that the back of the apartment is more to the RIGHT inside this structure....OR just REMOVE it totally out of the shot, and out of our viewpoint, if that's not achievable during this moving shot. (the little figure of Leia herself would just be kept pacing in her current position)

REMOVE the SE hint of the top of the 'plant' (or 'objects on shelf') altogether, as they should be further back to the right of the structure, unseen by us, again reinforcing that the back of the apartment is further to the RIGHT of the current structure.  (There seems to be something sticking out now on the inside on the left-hand side that passes in front of Leia close to the window's interior.  This is not really a problem, as the camera-angle of Leia's 'close-up' supposedly 'looking out of the window' in the next shot doesn't show exactly how close she is to the window, and isn't at an angle to see this 'protrusion', even if it had been included in the actual set.  It's just an extra detail that could EITHER be left OR removed)

If possible, perhaps the current direction of the interior shadows can be tweaked a little, and a slight adjustment made to the 'curve' of the ceiling seen in the window.  However, it's a moving shot, so this may not be achievable.  It's certainly no biggie personally speaking, as I reckon the removal of the currently distracting 'plants' / 'objects on shelf', and shifting the hint of 'twisting, glass ornament' over to the RIGHT-hand side of the window (or TOTAL removal) will alone make a huge difference to the percieved layout of the interior in the shot.  Certainly, anything is better than it is currently laid out.

Just as a final thought on this one from me, there is ALSO the possibility of giving the impression that the building seen in the 3rd post above has totally nothing to do with Leia's 'apartment' whatsoever!  That's right, the 'ol 'flipped shot' routine....  (Although it took me a little while to get onboard with the idea of this with a couple of shots in ANH:R, I really like idea now that this can freshen things up in certain places)

Anyway, using my tried and tested 'mirror' trick, I've had a look at the new SE 'fly-by' shot that cuts to Leia in the window, and it seems that if you take that tall, fat building with the 'Cloud-car' platform as a focal point, that you can get away with flipping EITHER the 'fly-by' (there's nothing that looks out of place as the Cloud-cars are symmetrical, as is the tall, fat building) shot OR the 'apartment window' shot (my points for tweaking it would still be relevent though), but the 'Cloud-car' platform and the Cloud-car taking off above it, would need to be REMOVED from the end of the 'fly-by' shot.  Apart from that, I think if you compare the shots in the 3rd post, and at the top here, you can just about get away with it seeming to be a cut from somewhere behind the tall, fat building, to somewhere in front of the tall, fat building, because of the angle that the tall, fat building seems to be positioned during the 2 shots! 

It was just another thought, and I look forward to whatever extra is done in these scenes.   

Sevb32 said:

The still above is just before the switch to the other side view of the building on the left and we see Leia walking in the window, this is a moving shot so could we assume Leia's new building design is on the the other side of the left building which was originally supposed to be hers. It's all with keeping this shot of the fly thru, would hate to see it gone.

In short, this new more accurate building could be put next to the old one here, without changing the moving fly thru shots, I believe.

3rd post

I like the 'fly-through', and it's just a pity that the final designs of the buildings in the SE between the 2 shots made a bit of a hash of things overall.  More on that in my 4th post below though.

 2nd post 

adywan said:

yeh its the outdoor matte that is throwing everything out.  I've checked all the interior layout and have been able to map where the door that chewie and lando is in each shot. as you can see there is no way such a vast corridor , in fact no corridor at all, could be outside the second door that lando & chewie enters based on the exterior views. another nightmare. lol

1st post

Well this was a real coincidence....  Although I'm still very busy in general unfortunately (which is annoying for me, as I want to go into quite a few more potential fixes to 'Empire', that haven't been mentioned yet), I got a chance to come on here today with the intention of suggesting a couple of possible little improvements to smooth the 'continuity' horrors with this particular scene in the movie.....  And it turned out that a few of you were already deep in scrutiny of it, lol!

(That's lucky for me, as I hadn't yet had the time to ask doubleofive for the screenshots he normally helps me with, but can just about use what's been shown already, instead) 

As this one is as potentially tricky as the 'Duel in the Vane' layout (which I still reckon Luke followed Vader along inside the long 'extending arm' from the Carbon Chamber inside the 'surrounding wall', and that the 'broken window' should have been on the OTHER side of the exterior Vane shots....  ;) ), I think it will be helpful to have all the relevant shots in close proximity on the SAME page for reference, so forgive the fact that I'm going to have to make 4 seperate posts here, one after the other, since I haven't mastered the 'multiple posts into one' thing yet!  (My own 2 cents will be in the 4th post, by the way) 

I've a spare one I can send you Adywan.  PM me your details if you want it. 

Dangerous Incorporated said:

Thanx for that but the scene Im talking about is a shot inside the command centre and focusses on the white C-3PO using a penlight on a glass map. Then, the movie continues as normal and Han is shown entering the command centre. This scene was not present on the video release.

Interesting.  I wasn't aware of this. 

Dangerous Incorporated said:

On the Canadian theatrical version SE there was a shot in the Hoth command center of a white C3-PO which was later removed. Ive never seen this. Is it available online or anywhere for that matter and if it is, is it worth considering adding it?

Just to clarify DI, the white droid is there behind the female Rebel operator, in a couple of shots before the ION Cannon fires, and is featured in the GOUT as well as the SE versions.

It's even whiter now thanks to Adywan -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN8YIR60Ij0&feature=channel