ImperialFighter

sgdelta1771, most of the shots of the interior set of Leia's apartment are moving shots, and impractical to add window scenes to, and possibly near impossible.

The interior also has different entrances that various characters enter into the room from.  (albeit with some continuity issues concerning the current layout of the exterior of the building itself)

There are plenty of shots out various other windows along the way, where we see the cityscape from quite a high vantagepoint surely?

IndyFan89 said:

ughh! How much longer are we gonna have to wait to see this fan-edit!

Depends which one you're referring to I guess.  There's more than one currently being worked on.

Nice one Darth Lars, as that gives a good idea of one of the possible outcomes that I liked, giving the impression that Leia's apartment would now be on the 'corner' of the building (near the top), but unseen by us in the preceding SE shot.  The top of the building (the whole overall structure in fact) would now seem WIDER, and tie-in better with where the 'tall, fat building' has been placed in the 2 shots.

The only thing I'd say at this point, is that I'd prefer to see the existing 'slanted' building detail underneath Leia's window kept as it is, but maybe add JUST A HINT (a thin 'sliver' only) of the uppermost 'slanted' building top (which has the wine-coloured stripe along it), into the far-right of the frame above Leia's window.

Something to keep in mind with the way you currently have it, is that we would end up being able to see your high added section through the ceiling shots that come afterwards, if kept like this.

corellian77 -  I see that you re-positioned the 'cloud-car platform' IN FRONT of the 'tall, fat building' in your top mock-up above.  Nice tweak.  That was yet another poorly placed element in the current SE shot, compared to the bottom shot that came after it.

Unfortunately, the positioning of the 'tall, fat building' still seems in a different position to 'Leia's building' between the 2 shots, as things currently stand.  It looks like it's somewhat in front of where 'Leia's apartment' would be in the shot above, but somewhere in the distance slightly behind and at the side of 'Leia's apartment' in the shot that comes afterwards.

I recently suggested removing the 'rising cloud-car' and 'platform' from one of the shots (ideally the one in the SE shot seen here), to imply there were 2 similar 'tall, fat buildings' nearby 'Leia's building' (one in front, and one slightly behind at the side), as a possible alternative.  However, if Adywan decides to keep things much the same (although I'd like your tweak to the 'cloud-car platform's position if possible), then my alternative way of looking at the existing positioning of the 'tall, fat building, will be to imagine that 'Leia's buildiing' is actually WIDER than it seems from the angle we see it, and that the the top section where you removed the 'spires' is actually somewhere to the REAR of where Leia's 'corner' apartment is really situated!  This gives me the impression that the 'tall, fat building' seen in both shots is slightly behind and to the side of 'Leia's building....  :)

It's a moving shot unfortunately, and tricky to alter, so barring cutting before we get to this point (which would kinda spoil the flow of the SE shot), it won't be a biggie to me at the end of the day.

Uncanny Antman said:

ImperialFighter said:

Bear in mind, I'm not adding anything to the existing footage in any way, just altering what's already there, somewhat.

Yes, I believe you may have mentioned that once or twice.  ;)

The majority of fan edits are like that, so I think the paranoia might be a little misplaced.

As it's been mentioned by more than one potential 'KOTCS' editor that they are unsure about how to alter the current 'ending', and considering the amount of speculation about the possibility of adding 'Spalko visions' and 'newspaper headlines' to the mix, I just didn't want jones1899 thinking I'd be eventually showing something that involved either of those scenarios, when I answered his query.  Simply that, Ant.

However, if there eventually happens to be any edits with additional elements such as those included, then I look forward to seeing how they turn out.

ImperialFighter said:

 

And that leads onto something else -  if you choose to look on the 'apartment window' shot as being the WHOLE 'rounded end' of the top section of the building seen in the preceding shot....then the top section is only as wide as the 'apartment' is (very narrow in other words), and the position of the tall, fat building and platform is SIDE-onwards to the whole of Leia's building....

but if you look on the 'apartment window' shot as being positioned at the far edge of a WIDE top section, then the position of the tall, fat building and platform is facing DIRECTLY towards the end of Leia's building, and matches the positioning seen at the end of the preceding 'fly-by' shot too.  (I REALLY like the idea of something along the lines of the rough mock-up that Davnes007 came up with at the end of the previous page by the way, but again it's tricky because of the 'camera-movement' I suppose) 

Also, shouldn't the single 'wine'-coloured stripe either side of the 'apartment window' area be covering the strips just above and below it as well, to better tie-in with the fatter 'wine'-coloured stripe seen in the preceding shot?  Especially since it was seemingly intended to represent the same structure?  It's just another example of sloppy continuity it seems.

Found a moment to chip in on this one -  this was something I intended to come back on sometime, since my comments above from part of a long post about this whole scene on page 295.

Since then, it seems that Adywan definately plans to keep the SE 'city fly-through' by the cloud car, which I really liked too.  However, I have no idea what the plans are for the very end of the SE shot (before it cuts to Leia pacing in the window), where there seems to be continuity problems with where the buildings are situated to each other.

Anyway, vaderios is correct about how the 'cloud-car platform' seems to be at the wrong height (in relation to Leia's building) between the 2 shots where it's seen in the overall scene.  Having studied the scene in motion a few times a while back, what I'd intended to suggest was that it seems that with the current layout between the 2 shots, if you watch the end of the SE shot (seen in vaderios MIDDLE photo above), it can be conceivably be imagined that there is ANOTHER similar 'tall, fat building' OFFSCREEN to the right of the frame too!  (At the SIDE of the SE building that Leia seems to be at the front-top of, according to where the cloud-car seems to fly between the 2 shots now)

To really sell this, one of the shots would have to have the 'rising cloud-car' and 'cloud-car platform' totally removed , and there could even be a little tweaking of colour to one of the shots, so that these now 2 DIFFERENT 'tall, fat buildings' looked even less identical if necessary.

Just an alternative thought, although Adywan might have changed a few things here already.

jones1899 said:

So when can we expect to see the something?

Well doubleofive has kindly done a little something extra that I asked for, so I have everything I need to suggest my preferred 'beginning' and 'ending' now.  Despite a busy schedule this week, I'm aiming to find time to finish it all off, and post all my comments here no later than 5 days from today.

Bear in mind, I'm not adding anything to the existing footage in any way, just altering what's already there, somewhat.

jones1899 said:

Double, glad to hear the upload is ready for Imp. Hopefully we see something soon. 

Yup, so here it is!  ;)

Thanks for sorting me out with all the shots already doubleofive!  It looks like you got every one perfectly.  :)

The coding issues seem to be resolved now too, so I can continue 'drafting' out this while that other little thing is seen to.

Just how the gopher fits in, will have to wait till then....  ;)

doubleofive -  I'll need to get back to you about something when I can.

Don't know when, as I'm up to my eyes in stuff for the next day or two.  It's the curse of the skull I tells ya....

Test -

Tobar said:

Ooh, what's the story on that stand-in newspaper?

....and where the heck is Mapleton?

No rush from me at this end doubleofive, as I know it's a lot to get exactly the frames I asked.  It'll be done when it's done, and thanks again.

In the meantime I've had a chance to work out a little something else that was niggling me near the end.  :)

adywan said:

Now Jedi needs a lot of work. this is supposed to be the finale to the whole saga yet the whole battle is pretty lame and seems rushed. It seemed more concentrated on the Ewoks than the struggle the Rebel fleet was having in orbit. it should have been the other way around. This should be the battle to end all battles...and it will be. There will be the new ending that completes the saga. you will get to see the reason why they seem to be celebrating around the galaxy so early after the Death Star was destroyed. I need to use models for some of the replacements and extra shots. i don't want to fully use CGI. I haven't yet seen a CGI stardestroyer on the net that looked as convincing as a real model. sure the smaller ships can be replaced by CGI but i don't want a fully CGI scene as it just won't fit in. Having the larger ships be real models and smaller ships be CGI will create a great balance that will fit with the original FX.

If ROTJ:R takes the longest to do then so be it. I have a vision of how i want ROTJ:R to turn out and i have to be prepared to put the extra work in to accomplish this. i'm not going to cut corners just to get the movie out as soon as possible because people are becoming impatient.I will never be working on these films again once they are done. there will be no special editions or revisited. So it has to be done right the first time around because i don't want to be sitting there watching them in a few years time saying " damn i wish i had done this or that" because my whole purpose for doing these edits is to do the versions i wanted to see , and if i begin to wish i'd taken a bit more time and added something else then i would have failed.

"This should be the battle to end all battles...and it will be."

Now there's a mission statement from Adywan that we should all be fired-up about!

While there'll be plenty of opportunity to discuss 'ROTJ:R' in general once it's thread comes around, his intention to round off the final movie in the saga's story like this will be worth whatever period of time it takes for Adywan to get round to it.  Like many here, I too wish to see all this sooner rather than later (yesterday would have been nice), but this whole endevour isn't primarily for the benefit of others, but is for Adywan's own personal satisfaction.  Luckily for us all though, he has chosen to share the results of his efforts for those interested.  Considering the hugely ambitious amount of ideas and 'fixes' that he is working into his versions, the fact that he seems to have an amazing workrate on these already, means that we will see his efforts as soon as is reasonably possible.

This mainly one-man creative effort  requires a ridiculous amount of planning, work, dedication, and time by the barrowload, and we are getting something wonderful out of that eventually.  So even if Adywan want's to attempt to build his own full-scale 'Death Star' from scratch to achieve a shot he wants to do, while I wouldn't mind if he borrowed one off the Emperor himself to achieve a similar shot, I realise the fun and satisfaction of making his own if that's what he chooses.  This is a personal project for Adywan, and I can understand that a large part of the kick he is getting out of this ongoing endevour will be the 'process' of doing most things hands-on himself.  That takes longer of course, but it's a huge part of the satisfaction for him I'm sure, which makes doing this project even more worthwhile for him.  And yes, he gets to keep his own 'Death Star' if that's what he chooses. 

I've seen enough of Adywan's work now to look forward to the fact that the new props and miniatures will actually be of his own making, as this makes this whole, mad, years-long project even more incredible than it already is.  It'll be ready when it's ready, and I'll happily wait for Adywan to achieve his usually excellent 'creative choices', no matter how long that takes.

So less Ewok focus, and more Rebel fleet focus then?....with an intended mix of miniatures and CGI, rather than all-CGI?  WOW!  And I thought the wait for 'Empire:R's release was going to be hard to endure....  ;)

adywan said:

yes i will be extensively documenting the model making to include in a making of that will either be released alongside ESB:R or after ROTJ:R is complete. i have something special planned for a bonus disc ( or maybe 2 bonus discs)

Even more than I expected, once again!  :)

That will be a terrific set of 'extras' by the sounds of things.  (especially looking forward to any 'making of' Wampa material)

adywan said:

Serji-X Arrogantus said:

Ady, how do you plan to shoot smooth shots of the Falcon etc... you using some sort of motion control to help with those shots ?

i'm going to have to build some sort of rig. i'm designing it at the moment and will hopefully start building it later next week.

after the trailer is complete and posted i will be taking a break from the video work and i am going to fuly concentrate on building the sets and models.

I'm hoping that ALL your various model / prop-making efforts to do with this edit onwards will be extensively filmed or photographed along the way, as much as is possible.  It will make for a very interesting record of the work you're putting into all this, if they can be viewed somewhere eventually.

Janskeet said:

I really don't see whats wrong with the Millenium Falcon/Tie Fighters in the asteriod/canyon chase. It looks fine to me. I don't see why adywan is going through the hassel of recreating the asteriod/canyon chase with models, I don't see what's in dire need of fixing?

Because the elements/colouration in the couple of shots where the TIEs collide, and when we see the Falcon with the resulting explosion behind it as it goes through the canyon passage, are probably among the worst effects in the entire movie, and spoil what is otherwise a terrific sequence.

Nice work on that latest Bespin city interior shot Adywan, by the way.  The proper colouring to the uniform is excellent, as are the vibrant sky / clouds / buildings seen through the windows.

Don't worry Dr. Inza, there's sure to be a lot more posts on this thread in the near future....

I reckon Adywan's new Emperor here looks terrific.  I always disliked the SE hood previously.

Looking forward to tomorrow's latest new shot!

Excellent work Adywan, and we didn't even have to wait till Thursday for this one!  ;)

I reckon that the colouration looks wonderful in this shot now, and really like the finished placement of your enlarged Obi-Wan behind the protrusion of the log.

Glad to see the back of the hovering 'tiny' Obi-Wan at last.  (Thanks for the helpful comparison shots as always doubleofive)

Had a study of this by the way doubleofive, and I don't think the giant 'roots' behind 'Luke doing the handstand' match these behind-the-scenes ones here (also seen in the footage), that we see in the Obi-Wan and Yoda scene.  BUT I never noticed that the stump (and giant roots) don't seem to be in the shot where we see the front of the X-Wing lowering down beside Luke....until you pointed it out just now!

Maybe Yoda (or even Luke eventually?) moved it into a better position for eventual take-off, afterwards at some point?, lol.

Adywan said: 

the main problem with having the cloud car flying towards the city is then we have 3 consecutive shots of a ship flying away from the camera. First Luke's X-wing which wipes to the shot of cloud city then straight into the fly-though scene with the cloud car. the middle shot really needs to be different or the repetitiveness is glaring. In the clip i did put that it was a temp shot and i always miss the original wipe shot with the cloud car (don't get me started on that refinery again. ;) lol). i have a few ideas about what to do with the shot but just need to do a few tests first.

Just a thought, but what about a compromise in this shot, where you could still have the 'main' cloud-car coming TOWARDS us (ala the GOUT original look) to juxtapose against the preceding shot of Luke's X-Wing RECEDING away, but ALSO have a 2nd cloud-car in the shot, being seen to be RECEDING towards the city too  (which would eventually look as if it ties-in with the start of the following shot showing a RECEDING cloud-car beginning it's city 'fly-through')

The one coming TOWARDS us would still be the dominating 'movement' in this shot, and would continue to give the necessary difference of 'direction of travel' between it and the before and after shots.

Tobar said:

Hey Happy Star Wars Day everybody! May the Fourth Be With You.... =P

This will be a day long remembered....   :)

DuTwan said:

Been lookin thru Empire past few days and cant see anything that hasnt been mentioned or done by Ady. Findin it really hard now to find things to try and change and worse its gettin harder to find pics to do mockups with lol.

What we need really is a kind of quick list Ady that u havent done yet and u wonderin about idea or just wot generally people come up with. Coz we dont know exactly how much uve done or every last thing uve changed lol.

On top of what is just a 'loose', incomplete list of Adywan's amendments on his first post of this thread, here is a separate, more comprehensive (though still incomplete) list of some of the ideas (not all of which are being used) and actual completed amendments that have been gathered. 

Monroville last updated the 2nd page details in February it seems -   http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Adywans-ESB-edit-Suggestion-Terminal/topic/9477/

There's still a few things that have been mentioned, and then incorporated that aren't on this list though, and there's certainly a few things to come that haven't been fully covered yet for Adywan to consider, on top of these.

vaderios said:

Thats the asteroid that i was talking about.

 

This was one of the things I'd intended to bring up too some time soon vaderios.

Lighting issues aside, I never liked how it seemed so uniformly 'rounded' compared to the rest of the irregular-shaped ones we see throughout the sequence, and how it it just moved in a NON-'tumbling' motion that doesn't match the others either.

So it's great to see that Adywan has confirmed it's to be amended now too!

 

Going by the current SE shots, if you choose to look on the 'apartment window' shot as being the WHOLE 'rounded end' of the top section of the building seen in the preceding shot....then the top section is only as wide as the 'apartment' is (quite narrow it seems), and the position of the 'tall, fat building and platform seems to be SIDE-onwards on the right-hand side to the whole of Leia's building....BUT if you look on the 'apartment window' shot as being positioned 'unseen' at the far-edge of a WIDER top section, then the position of the 'tall, fat building' and platform can seem to be facing almost DIRECTLY towards the end of Leia's building, and better matches the positioning seen at the end of the preceding 'fly-by' shot too.

And also going by the current SE shots, shouldn't the single 'wine'-coloured stripe either side of the 'apartment window' be covering the 'strips' indicated just above and below it as well, to better tie-in with the MUCH THICKER 'wine'-coloured stripe seen in the preceding SE shot? (or the one in the preceding shot could be made THINNER)  Especially since it's seemingly intended to represent the same structure?

As far as the 'INTERIOR' of the 2 shots shown here are concerned - 

I agree that Han enters the doorway beside the 'plant in the red vase', and that Chewbacca and Lando BOTH end up entering the SAME doorway a good distance away from Han's one, and which has the 'seashell' beside it (You can just briefly see the 'seashell' on the alcove shelf on the LEFT of Chewbacca when he enters the apartment with the pieces of C3PO). 

And I always imagined that the bottom shot, showing a 'close-up' of 'Leia looking out of a supposed window', is intended to show us an almost DIRECT-on view of the REAR of the apartment's layout, with Han's doorway on the RIGHT of the shot, and Chewbacca's and Lando's doorway on the FURTHEST FAR LEFT of the shot here (which means that the angle of the current 'interior' seen through the 'window' before it, is quite off-kilter).

The current layout of 'doors' seen through the 'window' seem to lead to nowhere, as Chewbacca and Lando would have had to come into the apartment using the same doorway situated somewhere around where Leia is facing in the 'window' shot seen here!  And although the spacing of the SHADOWS on the wall are not perfect between the 2 SE shots shown here, judging by the direction of their angles, I would say that we shouldn't see in this preceding 'window' shot, what  seems to be the TOP of the 'plants in the red vase' beside where Han enters, when compared to the positioning of the NEXT shot....

Therefore, the ways I'd like to see the existing 'window interior' adjusted would be these, if possible -

I reckon the SE hint of 'twisting, glass ornament' that we can make out behind Leia, that is currently on the left-hand side of the interior, should be moved over to the far- RIGHT of the 'interior', to give it a better 'centrally-placed' look in the overall structure as seen through the 'window'.  This would better match the actual set positioning behind Leia in the NEXT shot shown above, to reinforce that the back of the apartment is more to the RIGHTof the 'inside' of this structure....

OR if that's not achievable during this slightly 'zooming-in' shot, could you alternatively consider REMOVING IT COMPLETELY out of the shot (and out of our viewpoint) , ALONG with the 'hint' of what seems like the TOP of the 'plants in the red vase'?   This would give the impression that the 'central ornament' and the 'plants in the red vase' are FURTHER BACK to the RIGHT of the structure, unseen by us.  I know the hint of ceiling curvature is possibly slightly wrong for this, but I'd prefer that to being more distracted by the strangely-positioned 'ornament' compared to it's positioning in the shot that follows.  It's a little thing in the scheme of things, but this subtle tweak could make a good difference, if possible.  Even if the 'ornament' isn't adjusted or removed, I'd definately like to see the hint of the TOP of the 'plant in the red vase' TOTALLY REMOVED, as that REALLY gives a misleading layout to the interior, where it would seem 'vaguer' without it.  (There seems to be something sticking out now on the inside on the left-hand side that passes in front of Leia close to the window's interior.  This is not really a problem, as the camera-angle of Leia's 'close-up' supposedly 'looking out of the window' in the next shot doesn't show exactly how close she is to the window, and isn't at an angle to see this 'protrusion', even if it had been included in the actual set.  It's just an extra detail that could EITHER be left in, OR removed)  The figure of Leia is fine to be seen pacing in her current way, even if any of these interior adjustments are made.

Either of these 2 scenarios would greatly improve the continuity between these 2 shots I think.

Adywan, just wanted to re-suggest these specific points above, that may have got missed in a lengthy post I made a while back.  I still think they are worth considering if you did miss them.  Not a biggie at the end of the day, just a few thoughts on it still.

The removal of the top of the structure was mentioned by a few at the time, and is a welcome improvement for the sake of continuity with the interior ceiling shots.  Great to see you did this tweak.

This shot comes immediately before the one showing Leia pacing through the 'window'.  Comments in the post below -