ImperialFighter

Just for clarification, the shot vaderios showed of the 'Bridge' is from the 'fleet massing' near the beginning of the movie, whereas Adywan's shot that is shown is from the end of the movie.  And Adywan has deliberately 'flipped' it.

Strangely, I see that you removed the non-symmetrical white lights beside Vader at the very front of the 'Bridge' for some reason.  However, I notice that Adywan has kept them to their original positions (which I thought was a neat touch) EVEN though he has 'flipped' the shot.

Okay, for ease of comparison, I REALLY want this on the same page as Adywan's version, lol.

Concerning the 'angles' on the 'stairs', your version (on top-right shot above) seems to have WIDER stairs than Adywan's version (shown further above).  As you can see from the other shot shown of Vader walking down the stairs, we would end up seeing your wider ones in that shot, so Adywan's ones are more correctly laid out.

Will add comments very shortly

EDIT:  No in-depth analysis on this one vaderios, lol!  I was just trying to show Adywan's actual shot UNDERNEATH your 'mock-up' on the SAME page, but shanerjedi and EyeShotFirst got there first, and the page changed, LOL! 

Anyway, some very observant stuff there vaderios, but the 'angles' on Adywan's excellent 'stairs' area seems fine already, compared to the version you showed.

focuspuller said:

 

I am actually on vacation right now so I am going to post more seriously in about a week or less. Until then I hope everyone is well. Stay tuned.

Always look forward to your updates on this marvellous effort.

Enjoy the vacation!

Okay, so I held off watching the trailer 'link' until I could catch it on the biggest monitor I could....and the footage looked phenomenal!

Having known many of the shots involved only as still images for a while now, it seemed dreamlike to finally see some of them 'in motion'.  It was like seeing some of these scenes for the first time, considering the amount of tweaking added to them.

The colouration was glorious as always, and there was just so much goodness on offer.  One of the highpoints was the 'cloud city approach' of course.  First moving through the 'wisps'....and then the hint of sun 'glare'.  Sublime stuff.

I guess the biggest highlight for me was the shot of the Falcon blasting off from the platform, as I'd asked for it's 'landing legs' to retract during that scene, so long ago.  I always wondered just how that shot would come out, and it turns out you made them retract at just the moment I hoped they would!  I didn't realise back then how wonderfully you'd execute the new sky and cityscape to complete the shot though....

And the sky in the 'railing' shot was exceptional too.

The final 'Emperor' is terrific, along with that much needed second "Yes...." and if you HAVE used the 'side-onwards' shot that doubleofive recently 'mocked-up',  then wonderful, as his mainly-hidden features looked suitable creepy in that.  (Great stuff on all those comparison shots by the way, doubleofive.  Thanks for your helpful efforts on that)

Anyway, everything looked ridiculously good now overall, and it's so neat to see greyer TIEs in this. 

One thing I will keep my fingers crossed for too, is for some of that extra 'TIE-firing' goodness that looked so terrific in a past preview.  Like others here, I missed that now....along with the accompanying sound FX that were there in your previous version.

All in all, this is exceptional work, and you have continued to exceed whatever expectations I once had.  It made my day.  :)

** 3RD POST **

So here we go then.  This is how I would have much preferred the 'BEGINNING' of the movie to have ACTUALLY started, as this would have set a very different, more serious 'tone' overall, compared to the current version. 

'INDY 4' could have started off in a more dramatic, suddenly explosive way.... 

We start to hear the short, steady 9 seconds long 'mysterious'-sounding John Williams 'cue' now begin sometime DURING the previously silent 'LUCASFILM' logo, which continues for the DURATION of a now slightly-shortened 'PARAMOUNT' logo....

....until the 'cue' fades into sound of the vehicles in the following shot....as we bypass the whole EXISTING 'credits' intro. involving the 'gopher' and 'hotrod racing convoy' opening altogether (although we'd sadly lose the 'main title' also....or happily lose it, depending on your point of view....but more on that shortly), and INSTEAD 'fade'-out from the 'PARAMOUNT' logo DIRECTLY to the long-shot of the 'convoy approaching the US base checkpoint'....starting at the point IMMEDIATELY AFTER the 'credit' saying 'Directed by Steven Spielberg' completely fades-out....

(And again, a DIRECT 'fade'-out from the 'PARAMOUNT' logo into this new 'opening' shot would be nice, but a brief 'fade' to black between the logo and this first shot would be equally good, especially if the 9 seconds long 'mysterious' cue can be timed to 'fade'-into the initial sound of the 'convoy' vehicles)

....there is no music 'score' at this point, as we hear only the sound of the convoy entering the frame and slowing to a halt, before the establishing words 'NEVADA 1957' appear....

....and we continue (as per the movie) onto a scene involving the Army Police guards advising the 'US convoy' that the area is restricted for the next 24 hours and cannot be entered.  As the 'US Colonel' in charge of the convoy approaches the guards, we unexpectedly see him kneel down as various other 'US soldiers' suddenly open fire behind him....

At this point, I would have preferred to have seen the shot cut HERE on the 'close-up' of Dovchenko's face at the exact point seen above, IMMEDIATELY BEFORE the camera then 'panned downwards' to show his hands tying his bootlace....as  I just reckon this would have been a far better, more striking image to finish on. 

We'd INSTEAD cut DIRECTLY to the beginning of the very next shot which then shows Dovchenko just beginning to get up. 

(Note:  We start to hear the first few notes of a short but atmosperic John Williams' 'cue' begin during the 'bootlace tying' moment, but the same notes repeat at the very start of the shot below anyway, and gradually build nicely from there onwards, so we are not losing anything of importance.  It's no biggie to keep the 'boot tying' at the end of the day, though I just don't think it's such a good visual.

....as this first section of John Williams' score builds nicely from this point, we carry on (as per the movie)....

....until the camera 'pans upwards' to reveal the appearance of the 'main title' at this point, which lasts for 5 seconds onscreen (the same length as the actual one)....

....until it eventually 'fades'-out BEFORE the shot (and the 'cue') suddenly end HERE....

....as we then cut to the shot below of the 'car boot' being opened (as per the movie)....

WHATEVER 'main title' for 'INDY 4' that anyone prefers, I would ideally have liked to have seen it superimposed over the 'convoy passing the flag' shot shown above in this alternative 'opening' sequence (WITHOUT any additional 'credits' over the rest of the footage), where it would have tied-in nicely with the short accompanying John Williams score at this point. 

As a Brit, I see 'Indy' as one of the ultimate all-American action heroes, and would have been more than happy to see that highlighted during the 'stars and stripes' moment.  For the purposes of this rough 'mock-up' (thanks again doubleofive), I've now decided my own personal favourite 'title' is definately 'INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE SKULL'....since it sticks closely to the actual title, but isn't such a mouthful, and also doesn't give away the 'crystal' nature of the skull involved. 

My own preference would have been to see the actual 'INDIANA JONES' logo fonts being used once again in this fourth movie, as I really like the imagery of that.  However, the EXISTING plain font (seen in my 2nd post) would work well enough with this more serious 'opening' too, I guess.  Either way, I'd ALSO be more than content to do WITHOUT an actual 'main title' for 'INDY 4', and settle for just seeing the establishing 'Nevada 1957' wording at the beginning, as long as I could see the movie start with this footage instead! 

(Note:  In the current opening, the 'main title' appears onscreen 26 seconds after the 'PARAMOUNT' logo 'fades'-out, whereas in this alternative 'opening', it would appear 1 min. 05 seconds after the 'PARAMOUNT' logo ends.  However, I'd have been happy to wait longer for the 'main title' to appear at this point anyway, rather than over the 'hotrod'....)

So this brings us up to where the 'car boot' is opened....but you'll have to wait till I find enough time to properly finish up my NEXT post showing my preferred alterations to the rest of the 'Spalko' sequence, right up until we enter the 'US warehouse'.

(This will show exactly how I'd like to have seen the 'Mac's legs' and 'raised / dropped arms' continuity errors sorted among other things)

And AFTER that, I'll eventually post my 'ending'.  :)

ImperialFighter said:

 

Just how the gopher fits in, will have to wait....  ;)

Ideally, it DOESN'T!  :)

I'd gladly lose the initial 'transition shot' of the 'PARAMOUNT' logo fading into the shape of the 'gopher'-mound altogether, so that the opening of 'INDY 4' becomes a 'gopher'-free zone.... 

** 2ND POST **

Unlike each precious movie in the previous trilogy, it pains me to say that there are just so many annoyingly misjudged-moments throughout 'INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL' that I'd like to see removed or altered (starting with that mouthful of a 'title'!), that I won't be rewatching the 'theatrical cut' again anytime soon....which is a pity, as there are some good moments in it.

Currently, there are just too many flippant and unfunny, 'dumbed-down' scenes for my own 'Indy' tastes, but while 'KOTCS' is a misfire in my book due to other reasons too, I DO agree that certain alterations here and there could give it a different 'tone' that I'd much prefer.  Most of these potential changes have been already covered in this thread, and I'm hopeful that there'll eventually be a fanedit by someone that can salvage the movie into something less cringe-worthy at times.

In the meantime, here's my own take on how I'd like 'INDY 4' to look, where the 'BEGINNING' and 'ENDING' scenes are concerned -

OPENING 'CREDITS' / 'MAIN TITLE' SEQUENCE

(to briefly recap -  we currently see a silent 8 seconds long 'LUCASFILM' logo followed by a 6 seconds long 'PARAMOUNT' logo which is accompanied throughout by a short, steady 9 seconds long 'mysterious'-sounding John William's 'cue', before eventually 'fading'-out to reveal the 'matching' shape of a 'gopher'-mound....out of which pops a chirping 'gopher', as we then start to hear the strains of 'Hound Dog' by Elvis....just before the 'gopher' squeals as it leaps out of the way, as a 'hotrod' full of whooping teenagers runs over the 'gopher'-mound....)

Although I like 'Elvis' as much as the next guy....hearing 'You 'aint a nothin' but a hound dog, cryin' all the time' at the moment we see a 'prairie dog' and his pals scatter, is just grating, and not quite the 'opening' scene that I'd hoped for in this long-awaited sequel.  Some equally-annoying, inane antics involving some of the 'hotrod racing the convoy' scenes complete a disappointing start to the movie for me.

However, although it's NOT my own first choice for an 'opening' sequence, I appreciate that certain edits of 'INDY 4' will stick to this whole current version, because that's the footage onto which the intro. 'credits' and 'main title' have been superimposed, at the end of the day.  (the 'hotrod racing the convoy' footage DOES include some neat shots, but there are SO MANY various 'credits' overlayed throughout the sequence, it makes the exact, shortened-version I would have preferred, unworkable unfortunately....so there's little point in describing it)

Still, as far as keeping the current 'intro.' is concerned, I'd at least like to see the 'gopher's' appearance REMOVED altogether....and INSTEAD 'fade-out' from a slightly-shortened 'PARAMOUNT' logo DIRECTLY into the the faster-paced, more dramatic-looking (and sounding) shot of the 'hotrod' running over the 'gopher'-mound (starting at the point where the 'gopher' has just left the frame), as it scatters debris everywhere, then quickly recedes away from us....

(Note:  although a DIRECT 'fade'-out from the 'PARAMOUNT' logo to the new shot would be nice, I reckon that a brief fade' to black BETWEEN the 'PARAMOUNT' logo and the new shot would work equally well, especially if the 9 seconds long 'mysterious'-sounding John Williams 'cue' can be timed to 'fade'-into the noise of the new shot starting, no matter which way the shot is introduced)

So the current 'intro.' would look something like this now -

We start to hear the short, steady 9 seconds long 'mysterious'-sounding John Williams 'cue' now begin sometime DURING the previously silent 'LUCASFILM' logo, which continues for the DURATION of a now slightly-shortened 'PARAMOUNT' logo....

....until the 'cue' fades into the sudden noise of the 'hotrod' and it's passenger's 'whooping', when the now slightly- shortened 'PARAMOUNT' logo 'fades-out' DIRECTLY into this shot INSTEAD....

....and we only begin to hear the 'Elvis' song for the first time at this point now, as the noise of the 'hotrod' quickly recedes....

....and the footage proceeds as currently seen, with the 'main title' and various 'credits' superimposed over the inane antics that follow....

....still, at least we'd get rid of the 'gopher' with this scenario!  :)

It's only a small tweak, but one that would certainly improve the current 'intro.' for me.  (However, any potential version that DOES include the 'transition shot' of the 'gopher' would be tolerable to me, so long as the REST of the 'gopher' appearances thereafter are toned down or removed....so that they don't turn into a poor 'running gag' anymore.  And I agree that even the removal of the 'sounds' it makes, would be an improvement)

For this particular entry in the franchise, I'd hoped for a return to an 'opening' scene that somewhat more closely approached the mysterious 'tone' of the 'RAIDERS' one, with it's marvellous eerily-atmosperic John Williams score....rather than another raucous, jokey entrance, this time set to a 'pop' tune! 

So while it's by no means the worst sequence in the movie to me, I ain't ever gonna love it in it's current form....especially since there is a DIFFERENT sequence that I'd far rather had been used as the 'BEGINNING' of this movie INSTEAD....

jones1899 said:

Imperial, so you have some of it completed then?

Any chance of you reconsidering your wish to wait until its all done before posting anything? At least a taste of whats to come...?

** 1ST POST **

Okay jones1899 and any others interested....it wasn't my ideal intention, but as it's looking that I probably won't get the chance to finish all this up as soon as I'd like to after all, I will indeed start off with just a couple of my opening posts, just to finally get some of this off and running for you to look at....

While my 'ending' scenario involves a very long post that I'm not finding the time to complete yet, I can offer you some thoughts to do with the 'beginning' of 'INDY 4' in the meantime.

I'm not currently in a position to do an edit of this myself, but there may be something (out of everything eventually) that someone else likes and may wish to use themselves.

(I'd like to say a big thanks to doubleofive for taking the time to organise all the necessary screenshots I required.  It's very much appreciated.)

ImperialFighter said:

jones1899 said:

So when can we expect to see the something?

 

Well doubleofive has kindly done a little something extra that I asked for, so I have everything I need to suggest my preferred 'beginning' and 'ending' now.  Despite a busy schedule this week, I'm aiming to find time to finish it all off, and post all my comments here no later than 5 days from today.

 

Quick update before I head off to work, just to say that my ideas will have to wait just a little longer before I can post them up here unfortunately.

'aiming to find time' were the relevant words in my recent post, but try as I could, there's just too much day-to-day stuff going on at present to fully complete the seperate (there's built-in limitations on the forum) posts I'm working on for this.  I don't really want to post the ones that are completed, until I can show everything at once.  I thought I'd have more time by today, but have only managed a little more here and there over the last few days.  Life eh?

Anyway, after seeing Laserschwert's schedule, I guess a little longer to show this won't make much difference, lol.

The Golden Idol said:

 

 Am I the only one worried by this?

Quite possibly.

ihnradio said:

we just did an interview with Kyle Newman, who directed Fanboys.  He told us that he has seen your ANH:R DVD, and he and Dave Filoni watched it, along with a some people at Lucasfilm.  And they are following your ESB:R. 

I wonder who the others were?  Was George there?  His lawyers?  The cleaners?   ;)

Happy Birthday Adywan

Janskeet, Adywan has already previewed a very nice tweak to this shot (where he has raised the height of the barrier)

I know of plenty of balconies that are exposed to all-weathers.  I'd imagine there could be many of them on the Bespin city.  After all, what a view....

AxiaEuxine said:

Heres an idea, I know the exterior window shot is an establishing shot for the apartment scene buyt what if we removed the windows entirely? Just make it part of the building? That way there is no discontinuity with Leias apartment or the window in the roof becuase its obviously some other building that Leia is in. Im not even sure I like this idea but it popped in my brain so Im throwing it out there.

Thats's certainly an interesting solution AxiaEuxine!  But I'd miss that classic long-shot of Leia pacing inside the apartment, and it would seem a little strange to focus so much on the 'cloud-car' travelling around a portion of a supposedly different building to one where we'd then cut to Leia as being in....

sgdelta1771, most of the shots of the interior set of Leia's apartment are moving shots, and impractical to add window scenes to, and possibly near impossible.

The interior also has different entrances that various characters enter into the room from.  (albeit with some continuity issues concerning the current layout of the exterior of the building itself)

There are plenty of shots out various other windows along the way, where we see the cityscape from quite a high vantagepoint surely?

IndyFan89 said:

ughh! How much longer are we gonna have to wait to see this fan-edit!

Depends which one you're referring to I guess.  There's more than one currently being worked on.

Nice one Darth Lars, as that gives a good idea of one of the possible outcomes that I liked, giving the impression that Leia's apartment would now be on the 'corner' of the building (near the top), but unseen by us in the preceding SE shot.  The top of the building (the whole overall structure in fact) would now seem WIDER, and tie-in better with where the 'tall, fat building' has been placed in the 2 shots.

The only thing I'd say at this point, is that I'd prefer to see the existing 'slanted' building detail underneath Leia's window kept as it is, but maybe add JUST A HINT (a thin 'sliver' only) of the uppermost 'slanted' building top (which has the wine-coloured stripe along it), into the far-right of the frame above Leia's window.

Something to keep in mind with the way you currently have it, is that we would end up being able to see your high added section through the ceiling shots that come afterwards, if kept like this.

corellian77 -  I see that you re-positioned the 'cloud-car platform' IN FRONT of the 'tall, fat building' in your top mock-up above.  Nice tweak.  That was yet another poorly placed element in the current SE shot, compared to the bottom shot that came after it.

Unfortunately, the positioning of the 'tall, fat building' still seems in a different position to 'Leia's building' between the 2 shots, as things currently stand.  It looks like it's somewhat in front of where 'Leia's apartment' would be in the shot above, but somewhere in the distance slightly behind and at the side of 'Leia's apartment' in the shot that comes afterwards.

I recently suggested removing the 'rising cloud-car' and 'platform' from one of the shots (ideally the one in the SE shot seen here), to imply there were 2 similar 'tall, fat buildings' nearby 'Leia's building' (one in front, and one slightly behind at the side), as a possible alternative.  However, if Adywan decides to keep things much the same (although I'd like your tweak to the 'cloud-car platform's position if possible), then my alternative way of looking at the existing positioning of the 'tall, fat building, will be to imagine that 'Leia's buildiing' is actually WIDER than it seems from the angle we see it, and that the the top section where you removed the 'spires' is actually somewhere to the REAR of where Leia's 'corner' apartment is really situated!  This gives me the impression that the 'tall, fat building' seen in both shots is slightly behind and to the side of 'Leia's building....  :)

It's a moving shot unfortunately, and tricky to alter, so barring cutting before we get to this point (which would kinda spoil the flow of the SE shot), it won't be a biggie to me at the end of the day.

Uncanny Antman said:

ImperialFighter said:

Bear in mind, I'm not adding anything to the existing footage in any way, just altering what's already there, somewhat.

Yes, I believe you may have mentioned that once or twice.  ;)

The majority of fan edits are like that, so I think the paranoia might be a little misplaced.

As it's been mentioned by more than one potential 'KOTCS' editor that they are unsure about how to alter the current 'ending', and considering the amount of speculation about the possibility of adding 'Spalko visions' and 'newspaper headlines' to the mix, I just didn't want jones1899 thinking I'd be eventually showing something that involved either of those scenarios, when I answered his query.  Simply that, Ant.

However, if there eventually happens to be any edits with additional elements such as those included, then I look forward to seeing how they turn out.

ImperialFighter said:

 

And that leads onto something else -  if you choose to look on the 'apartment window' shot as being the WHOLE 'rounded end' of the top section of the building seen in the preceding shot....then the top section is only as wide as the 'apartment' is (very narrow in other words), and the position of the tall, fat building and platform is SIDE-onwards to the whole of Leia's building....

but if you look on the 'apartment window' shot as being positioned at the far edge of a WIDE top section, then the position of the tall, fat building and platform is facing DIRECTLY towards the end of Leia's building, and matches the positioning seen at the end of the preceding 'fly-by' shot too.  (I REALLY like the idea of something along the lines of the rough mock-up that Davnes007 came up with at the end of the previous page by the way, but again it's tricky because of the 'camera-movement' I suppose) 

Also, shouldn't the single 'wine'-coloured stripe either side of the 'apartment window' area be covering the strips just above and below it as well, to better tie-in with the fatter 'wine'-coloured stripe seen in the preceding shot?  Especially since it was seemingly intended to represent the same structure?  It's just another example of sloppy continuity it seems.

Found a moment to chip in on this one -  this was something I intended to come back on sometime, since my comments above from part of a long post about this whole scene on page 295.

Since then, it seems that Adywan definately plans to keep the SE 'city fly-through' by the cloud car, which I really liked too.  However, I have no idea what the plans are for the very end of the SE shot (before it cuts to Leia pacing in the window), where there seems to be continuity problems with where the buildings are situated to each other.

Anyway, vaderios is correct about how the 'cloud-car platform' seems to be at the wrong height (in relation to Leia's building) between the 2 shots where it's seen in the overall scene.  Having studied the scene in motion a few times a while back, what I'd intended to suggest was that it seems that with the current layout between the 2 shots, if you watch the end of the SE shot (seen in vaderios MIDDLE photo above), it can be conceivably be imagined that there is ANOTHER similar 'tall, fat building' OFFSCREEN to the right of the frame too!  (At the SIDE of the SE building that Leia seems to be at the front-top of, according to where the cloud-car seems to fly between the 2 shots now)

To really sell this, one of the shots would have to have the 'rising cloud-car' and 'cloud-car platform' totally removed , and there could even be a little tweaking of colour to one of the shots, so that these now 2 DIFFERENT 'tall, fat buildings' looked even less identical if necessary.

Just an alternative thought, although Adywan might have changed a few things here already.

jones1899 said:

So when can we expect to see the something?

Well doubleofive has kindly done a little something extra that I asked for, so I have everything I need to suggest my preferred 'beginning' and 'ending' now.  Despite a busy schedule this week, I'm aiming to find time to finish it all off, and post all my comments here no later than 5 days from today.

Bear in mind, I'm not adding anything to the existing footage in any way, just altering what's already there, somewhat.

jones1899 said:

Double, glad to hear the upload is ready for Imp. Hopefully we see something soon. 

Yup, so here it is!  ;)

Thanks for sorting me out with all the shots already doubleofive!  It looks like you got every one perfectly.  :)

The coding issues seem to be resolved now too, so I can continue 'drafting' out this while that other little thing is seen to.

Just how the gopher fits in, will have to wait till then....  ;)

doubleofive -  I'll need to get back to you about something when I can.

Don't know when, as I'm up to my eyes in stuff for the next day or two.  It's the curse of the skull I tells ya....

Test -

Tobar said:

Ooh, what's the story on that stand-in newspaper?

....and where the heck is Mapleton?

No rush from me at this end doubleofive, as I know it's a lot to get exactly the frames I asked.  It'll be done when it's done, and thanks again.

In the meantime I've had a chance to work out a little something else that was niggling me near the end.  :)