ImperialFighter

vaderios said:

And for those who interested,

Here is the size changes.

-Angel

This was a helpful comparison shot vaderios, thanks.

Adywan's newly-scaled shuttle will look even better in the shot now that it's slightly bigger than before.

And it's good to know that the existing ROTJ one in the 'forward' bay seems less jarring now - 

Thanks for that vaderios. 

So it is a 'standard' Stardestroyer after all....  Looks great now.  :)

Guess the 'technical journals' were indeed wrong about this one.

Perhaps someone can clarify this for me?

This is something else I've been wondering for a while now, as I haven't seen Adywan's AVCHD 'Empire' to see how this particular scene was 'colour-corrected'.

Those in-depth 'technical journals' over at the 'TFnet' site reckon that these following 'tower' shots belong to the 'Executor', and going by the SE DVDs I can see why....  However, although the SE colouration makes it look like this 'tower' is somewhat BLUE, it is nowhere near the stronger colour of the SE 'Executor' itself that comes a couple of shots later....which isn't saying much, considering the quality of the colouring on the SE's.... 

The other thing that makes me query the info. on that site about this, is that the original colouration in the GOUT makes this 'tower' seem even more like the 'whiteness' of a 'standard' Stardestroyer, rather than the 'blueness' of the 'Executor'.

I always thought that when this 'tower' appears, that we are seeing a 'standard' Stardestroyer in 'close-up' which seems huge in itself....before we cut away to a 'standard' Stardestroyer (the same one perhaps?) being 'overshadowed' by something bigger....before we finally end up cutting to see the reveal of the 'Executor' overhead -

....so could someone kindly confirm that this is the case on Adywan's AVCHD too?

One of the things I'm really looking forward to in 'ESB:R' is better colouration for the various craft seen, especially the Stardestroyers and the 'Executor'....as seen in this shot that was previously previewed - 

Enigmas said:

However, I am bothered by the flight path of the shuttle during Needa's visit to the Executor. It seems a bit arching and ponderous to me (for all 7 seconds it's on screen). Is that flight path final?

It's not really that big of a deal. I'm just (exasperatingly) curious. :) 

Have to say that although the 'zippy-ness' of the original 'box' craft has gone, I reckon the new 'drop-down' and path downwards looks really good with this new shuttle.  I think it's movement still works well with the existing music cue that's heard here.

Just as an aside -  I always thought that this was another alternative place where part of the impressive, slow-moving 'overhead' Stardestroyer element that is being discarded from the start of 'ROTJ:Revisited' might have integrated nicely....although it would have meant re-working the new shuttle's flightpath (and music cue) a little differently - 

....just after the scene on Dagobah which ends with Yoda telling Luke "That is why you fail"....the fade would then go to the 'ROTJ shuttle' dropping down and opening it's wings, and the  background would now just be a starfield with a glimpse of one or two other Stardestroyers which also seem to be in a 'holding pattern' at this point (no TIEs dropping down either, of course)....

....then perhaps at a point where the wings have fully extended, we'd then cut to the shot which reveals the 'Executor' below as Adywan's new shuttle continues on it's path downward from underneath the front bay instead (with the shots 'colour-corrected' to match up, of course) -

So it would have had the same sort of an 'extra shot' feel that Jaitea's version had -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6B92nPs8lg

However, it turned out to be a moot point now that Ady has pointed out that the shuttle in the ROTJ shot is the wrong scale (too big) coming out of the 'forward' bay anyway....and I'm personally more than happy with how his new version has turned out -   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSjLImZq7Ao

adywan said:

The first pic is the model built for the close up shots of the stardestroyer tower during the Endor battle while the bottom one is for the close-up shots of the Executor in ROTJ. You can see the correct Executor tower during the Tydirium "code clearence" scene

Ah, many thanks for clarifying that for me Adywan.

Here's a good behind-the-scenes shot of it -

....so that means that the proper black and white shot of the 'Executor' Superstardestroyer tower was this one here -

....which is the type seen at the bottom of these variations shown here -

.....whereas this shot is not the 'Executor' after all, but is just a 'standard' Stardestroyer's tower (as seen 2nd from the bottom in the variations photo seen just above) -

On re-reading the 'technical journals' site, it seems they didn't state that this one below was an 'Executor' tower after all.  I obviously mis-read it first time around, so sorry for any confusion.  This is definately just one of the 'standard' Stardestroyer towers after all (as seen in the colour shot shown just above) -

These 'technical journals' seem pretty well researched overall, but I wouldn't assume everything is correct with all their 'facts'.  But with so much information to take in there, I certainly got mixed up on this one.

However, I came across something else at that site to do with the 'Executor' that I've been meaning to query, but as it's not a 'scale' thing, I'm heading back to the 'ESB:R' thread with it....

adywan said:

1:- taken from the pic you posted, savmagoett,  of the scale between a human and the shuttle. Now the interior of the bridge and its windows is the same size for the Executor as it is for the stadestroyers. But in the models they only added the correct domed outside of the bridge to the executor. There is one stardestroyer model that has the domed bridge but the scale for that would have made the stardestroyers bridges almost 3x the size of the Executors one. Now the Towers of the stardestroyers and the Executor are exactly the same size so we can use the Executor tower with the domed bridge for the comparison. As you can see the scale of the human is the correct scale with the bridge.

2:- Now zoomed out so we can see the full tower, which you can see the scale of the shuttle in comparison to the tower.

3:- Full zoom out. The highest points of the zoomed tower perfectly matching the highest points in the full model, which is the centre point of the stardestroyer so the scale is correct. Copied and pasted the shuttle from the zoomed section and placed it next to your shuttles scaling.

4:- the scaling zoomed in. As you can see the correct scale of the shuttle in comparison with the stardestroyer should be a lot smaller than your calculations. So the shuttle in ESB:R will be the correct smaller scale which will fit inside the stardestroyers docking bay

 

I just wanted to show an Executor 'exterior' Bridge shot in close proximity to the photos above, for comparisons sake. 

Perhaps you can clear this up for me Adywan? -  I always thought this 'rounded' exterior Bridge shot below was meant to be the Executor's tower....but I was never sure (the dvd colouration is misleading)....

....and both of these behind-the-scenes miniature shots seen below are listed as being the Executor's tower (and either or both these shots may be 'flipped' the wrong way round for all I know, when it comes to studying the detail) 

Do you reckon the first one shown below is actually the 'oversized' Bridge that you mentioned in your post #17 on this thread, and that only the one at the bottom is the correct Executor one?  -

darthmunky said:

AWESOME! Is it even possible to recreate a shot like that?

Even if it is, surely the original 'birds-eye' view 'pan down' onto the Taun-Taun is an iconic and terrific shot as it is?

adywan said:

A little bit of an update:

The Faux fur/ hair i was using for the Wampa just wasn't working. It started to look like a fake Halloween creature. But some good news is that i have managed to buy 3 full hides of snow white real fur. This was bloody expensive, around £350 with postage, but thanks to  Janskeet i was able to afford this, but i'm now cleaned out. Yes i know its an expensive thing to buy just for a puppet, but putting all this time and effort into building it only to have it look terrible with fake fur would have been a waste of both time and money.

I still have a long way to go with the model/ set building but i am completely cleaned out and things are grinding to a halt, so any help would be highly appreciated

I'm sure there'll be continued support for all this amazing work.

Real fur hides, eh?  Sounds awesome.  Agree that it's worth the extra to get a terrific-looking Wampa at the end of the day.

adywan said:

The Faux fur/ hair i was using for the Wampa just wasn't working. It started to look like a fake Halloween creature.

A nervous Adywan sat forlornly in the corner as he wondered how to tell the wife that he was starting over on the suit, and that the livingroom was gonna have to resemble an 'ice-cave' for just a few more weeks yet....

adywan said:

 

That whole sequence at the beginning of ROTJ:R will be gone so there will be no problem with the scaling when i get to that.

While it will be really neat to see Vader shuttling from the direction of his 'Executor' rather than some random Stardestroyer at the start of 'ROTJ:Revisited', I was hoping that all or part of the long, graceful shot of the actual opening ROTJ Stardestroyer (minus shuttle of course) would be retained somewhat, or even incorporated elsewhere in either 'ESB:Revisited' or ROTJ:Revisited'....

It was always a favourite effects element in the OT for me, and I'd be sorry to see it's awesome majesty excluded from your versions altogether.  Time will tell on the final outcome I guess.

Welcome aboard savmagoett.  Interesting 1st post there.

For the sake of 'bay size' comparisons etc., here's another look at Adywan's new version -

....and how the 'Tantive IV' fits in the ANH ' bay' -

....and how ROTJ's shuttle exit from the smaller front 'bay' looks -

As far as when we come to 'ROTJ:Revisited', Adywan has indicated that Vader's shuttle may instead seem to have exited from his Executor ship rather than 'some other' Stardestroyer, so we may not see the above shots in their current form anyway....

I'm curious, are all the Stardestroyers seen in ANH, ESB, and ROTJ meant to be exactly the same size?

5 by 5 said:

The benefit is to add to the illusion that Vader is on a huge starship.   Otherwise it looks like they're trying to get by "on the cheap" repeating the use of some other sets.

I certainly understand the intention 5 by 5, but I don't happen to see that shot as a cheap 're-using' of the other sets in any way.  Rather, if Vader's quarters are deemed to be just around that right corner which isn't too far from the Bridge, then the wall section seen outside the open doorway does indeed match the existing set wall that is seen opposite the spot where Vader is seen to turn and go downwards after he chokes Needa.

If Adywan wants to change it in any way to make it seem as if Vader has travelled further, then that can certainly work too, since we only got a glimpse of Vader beginning to go downwards after he chokes Needa, and didn't get to see the doorway of his quarters there.  On the other hand, in the scene when Vader first turns the corner to go and contact the Emperor before the 5-6 second cut to the Executor exiting the asteroids....when we cut back to his quarters, it would seem like a 'jump forward in time' to allow him to get there....

Going back to the additional TIE laserbolts thing, I seem to recall Ady commenting that he thought they ended up making the sequence look 'too busy' at this point.  I personally thought they worked really great (along with their sound effects) where they'd been placed, but the original sequence is looking terrific regardless.  

I reckon it's more likely to be the way that any criticism is put across, that determines how's it's taken, rather than whatever criticism itself.  There's always likely to be certain things that not every Star Wars fan is going to agree on, be they professional or fanboy.

What's beyond dispute though is the sheer commitment and quality from Adywan that is on display on his project.  That outweighs whatever anyone may not agree with, at the end of the day.

Sluggo said:

Wrong.  This is Star Wars.  Everything takes place far, far away.

;)

 

I for one like the idea of his chambers being away from the action.  Having Piett march all the way into the bowels of the ship makes Vader seem even more menacing.  And has anyone mentioned the risk of having an A-wing crash into the bridge?

I guess I just don't see any benefit in altering that outside 'set' portion to try to make Vader seem 'isolated from the action' of the Bridge, especially since the footage doesn't seem to indicate that.  It all comes down to....a certain point of view, but I'll take whatever comes of course.

However, I don't think any kind of out-of-control A-wings perhaps crashing into the Bridge area would have been at the forefront of the Executor designer's mind, considering the protective firepower that it supposedly has.  I wouldn't think it would have any bearing on where Vaders quarters were situated, and I blame pure bad luck (and sloppy marksmanship from the Imperials) for that outcome in ROTJ.  ;)

And good to have Adywan confirming a few more things in his latest post.

Well Adywan may decide that the steps that Vader goes down at the end of the Needa scene, lead to quarters that are 'further on' somewhere after all, for your 'isolated' feel.

That's not necessary from my own point of view, but we'll see what happens.

Still loving the quality of your various stylized mock-ups, regardless.  :) 

VincentSmalls said:

That asteroid clip kicked some major ass Ady!

By the way, this was posted after Adywan's latest previews.  Can someone confirm if there was also one involving 'asteroids' that I've somehow missed, or is Vincent referring to an older clip?  Thanks.

Monroville said:

ImperialFighter said:

 

While I didn't mean 10 feet away from the Bridge, lol, I don't reckon a long, long trek from it either.

However, as it's impossible to actually judge exactly where this section of the set seen beyond the doorway is positioned anyway, there's nothing to say it can't be situated 'in the bowels' somewhere, without any manipulation whatsoever.

 I'm not saying Vader's chamber should be in the Executor's nose or anything ("I said ACROSS her nose, not UP it!"), but being that we can see that path and door in later bridge shots (I know that when making movies, sets will be built in proximity to one another for budget sake), it does make it a little silly.

Okay, because vaderio's mock-up above is something I consider a 'fix' for something I personally don't reckon is broken, I'm going to have a final stab at where I now believe Vader's quarters is really meant to be situated....if you go by the actual 'set' layout itself -  not very far away from being able to access any action on the Bridge, after all.

Having looked at all the relevant scenes, we never see that path and door (to Vader's quarters) in later Bridge shots clearly.  What we do see is Vader turning the corner on his right, once he's past the 'control room' section, after Piett tells him that the Emperor wishes him to make contact.  We then cut to a few seconds (approx. 5 or 6) of the 'Executor' coming out of the asteroid field, before cutting back to Vader inside his quarters.

Now I won't necessarily take that particular Executor shot's brief length literally, as I suppose it's possible to see it as a stylistic 'long jump ahead in time' before we return to Vader in his 'chamber' quarters, which could suggest that he's had time to travel into the 'bowels' somewhere, if you choose to look at it that way.

However, I reckon this brief cut to the Executor works fine in 'real-time' before we cut back to Vader in his quarters, because I think the dooway to his quarters is literally just around that right corner that he turns into.

Unfortunately I don't have a screenshot of it, but later on, just after Vader has choked Captain Needa, he then disappears off around that right corner again, and just before the scene ends, we can see that he begins to go down steps.  The 2 'security guards' seen standing in front of the doors in the 'unused' shot seen at the bottom here (and 1 is seen in the actual shot above), are not at the top of the stairs that Vader goes down after he chokes Needa....because I believe they are the 2 'security guards' that happen to be disposing of Needa at this point.

Ignore the 'BRIDGE' indication in the shot below (which was confirmed as being wrong ages ago), and look on the 'arrow' as pointing instead to the right corner that Vader goes around, and therefore towards the steps that are seen at the end of the Captain Needa scene.  And compare the detail of the 'set' walls seen on the opposite side of where this 'arrow' points, to the wall detail seen 'outside' of Vader's quarters in the current shot above .  You'll see that the 'intersecting' portion that juts out from the wall, matches the detail that is seen behind the passing crewmembers in the above shot.  If we could see just a little to the right of the above shot, we'd be able to see the 'white-lit' detail of the doorway seen on the left of the 'set' photo below (it's the same design as the outside of the doorway to Vader's quarters....as seen in the 'unused' shot at the very bottom here -

Here's an 'unused' shot showing the outside doorway to Vader's quarters, which is just barely out of shot at the end of the Captain Needa scene....showing the steps that Vader goes down at that point -

'Security guards' are normally stationed outside (as they seem to be at various other doorways, too), but were carrying Needa away in the scene where they would have been positioned here normally, which would have identified the positioning easier for us to begin with.

As far as the 'viewscreen' inside these quarters that Vader communicates to a 'nearby' Admiral Ozzel with....it seems reasonable enough to me that Vader has instant access to various areas he wishes to speak with (including the 'control room' just around the corner from his quarters), from the comfort of his 'chamber'....without having to physically get up out of it, if he can't be bothered etc. 

It's like his own personal 'Captain's Chair' and 'Viewscreen', from which he can control everthing in comfort.

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

 

It's the correct scale. Just look at the size of the docking bay compared to the shuttle. Plus in ROTJ the shuttle came out of the front smaller bay not the main one

Either way, its adorable!  And you moved the regular SD, I assume to better line up with that shadow I never noticed?

Just had to say how wonderful the new shuttle shot is looking, Adywan.

I always wondered if you'd end up making it come out of the front, smaller bay opening, as seen in ROTJ, or if you'd replicate the original shot where it comes out of the bigger bay.

The tiny scale of the shuttle looks great, and gives an even bigger sense of scale to the Stardestroyers seen in the shot now.

I'm another one who never noticed that the smaller Stardestroyer wasn't in the correct position to cast it's 'shadow' over the Executor the way it originally did!

And as far as the latest Yoda enhancements go, he's coming alive!  Love the difference that the removal of the bit of food has made to him 'eating'.  Thanks for these updates.  :) 

adywan said:

Monroville said:

Also, in regards to this shot:



Are the X-wing engines going to be redder to match their appearance in ANH?

I can assure you the engines are red in that shot.

Good to know these engine 'glows' are going to be as consistantly red as the 'ANH:R' ones, as I was kinda thinking this one shown a while back was kinda 'pink' too, compared to the SE version where it's very 'red' -

I guess the colours on these preview shots always come across a little bit unrepresentative of how they'll actually end up looking on the finished discs, so no worries.

Monroville said:

Not to mention:

If Vader's chamber is literally 10 feet away from the bridge, how hilariously AIRPLANE does it make the scene play out when all Vader has to do is get his asthmatic butt out of that chamber, go out the door, turn left/right and yell out "Hey Ozzell!  What the hell is going on?!"  You know, as opposed to talk to them via TV screen?

So yes, ANYTHING to show that Vader's chamber is in a much safer place, like deep inside the Executor, as opposed to right next to the bridge on a conning tower with shields that cannot withstand laser fire from A-wings.  A-wings fer chrissakes!

While I didn't mean 10 feet away from the Bridge, lol, I don't reckon a long, long trek from it either.

However, as it's impossible to actually judge exactly where this section of the set seen beyond the doorway is positioned anyway, there's nothing to say it can't be situated 'in the bowels' somewhere, without any manipulation whatsoever.

 

 

-Angel

Nice work on that unused shot doubleofive. 

I remember liking the original version of the set shown here.  Although even removing the crewmembers walking past would also give a more 'remote' feeling for Vader's quarters, I still think he wouldn't be situated too far away in walking distance from the 'main action' on the Bridge.

Some interesting latest updates on the eventual 3D 'home viewing' disc specs. here -

http://marketsaw.blogspot.com/2009/11/final-spec-for-3d-blu-ray-by-end-of.html#disqus_thread

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#110509

Some interesting latest updates on the eventual 3D discs - 

http://www.marketsaw.blogspot.com/2009/11/final-spec-for-3d-blu-ray-by-end-of.html#disqus_thread

RoccondilRinon said:

The lightsabre battle in TPM was thoroughly awesome. One of the most inspired ideas from the Reborn project, IMO, was opening the first film in medias res with that battle. One of the few ways (from the point of view of someone who's never seen the films) to rival the "wow" factor of the actual opening of ANH.

The great thing about the OT when that was all that existed, was that the Star Wars saga at that point, opened with a kick-ass sequence -  The Stardestroyer/Blockade Runner chase.

The prequels now give us a slow, meandering sequence to start off the 'whole' saga now.  It would have been neat had we been given another great sequence straight from the off, as the 'new' beginning to the saga....if only George had structured his story in such a way. 

I'd have loved to have seen a more exciting scene introduce the whole saga from the very start of the end of the 'scroll intro.' ...

adywan said:

ImperialFighter said:

Also still wondering if there would be any saber 'reflection' seen in that shot where Luke has his back nearest to the window, or not?

No. If you look at the right side of the frame in that shot you can see the reflection of lukes legs come into frame but not enough that you would see any of the saber at all

Agreed.  Having looked at that scene over the weekend, the placement of Luke and Vader excludes the chance of any 'reflections' from their saber 'glows' in there, just and no more....even in the one where Luke is closest to the window.

This would have made for a very nice, subtle addition had the actors been positioned just slightly further back in the set, but they weren't, so 'reflections' of saber 'glows' would definately be wrong now.

As far as the 'outer ring' of the windowframe perhaps being at an 'angle' to the rest of the windowframe, it turns out it's all aligned 'flatly'....so this wouldn't have any bearing either.