vaderios said:
PS: I still waiting for that dagobah/ hoth flipped shot analysis ImpFighter :D
I haven't forgotten, but there's a couple of other things I'm hoping to show first. :)
vaderios said:
Tried to eliminate the white spots replacing them with space. Assuming that the cave has gases and smoke(as we see later) some slight rays of light enhance the depth here.
Just remembered to add that I always thought those individual 'white areas' seen at the cave entrance here seemed a poor continuity error considering that the opening itself is one big hole! For extra continuity in the sequence, it would be neat to see a small asteroid passing overhead in any new starfield that Adywan puts there. Just seeing the starfield at all will be good though.
Ripplin, this shot isn't static it turns out, as the camera pulls back slowly as the Falcon approaches us. That movement definately adds something to the shot, even if it remains at this original angle.
adywan said:
But i don't care how long this takes me to do. If an idea comes up that i think would benefit the edit then i will try to do it, even if it delays the release by an extra year or so. The last thing i want to do is rush the edit just to get it out there and look back thinking "god i really wish i had done that" and not be happy with the finished product.
Bingowings, I wouldn't worry too much about adding any more suggestions here, even at this stage, as there's plenty of stuff that Adywan has to try to do yet anyway.
While I reckon he has a certain idea of just how far he wants to go with changing things in his 'ESB:Revisited' version, I always liked his attitude in this post that he has towards what he wants to achieve with these extensive projects.
But I agree that the 'ESB/ROTJ Wishlish' thread is more than sufficient to keep things simple for other continued ESB musings and early ROTJ ideas until Adywan eventually starts his main 'ROTJ:Revisited' one for that.
ChainsawAsh said:
I'm still very apprehensive about what will happen when Ady gets his hands on them (and ROTJ, for that matter) - I think there's a high risk of a very intense backlash against Ady if he changes "too much" about the prequels/ROTJ.
I've no doubt that anyone interested in Adywan's edits will end up appreciating what he's able to do to 'enhance' his edited versions. The majority of his changes are bound to be for the better going by his previous work.
It's not like he's replacing the originals for anyone that doesn't like his eventual choices.
Ghost said:
Yeah, look how simple and boring the space battle looks. That's something that I hope adywan improves in his ROTJ R edit. This is the last battle in the saga, I think it should be a little longer and more epic. It could really change the whole feel of the movie and the trilogy.
You must have missed where Adywan already confirmed his intention to make the ROTJ end battle the most impressive of all, since it now ends the 'whole' saga. Rest assured it's gonna be epic Ghost.
Some 'Avatar' updates -
The upcoming onslaught is picking up momentum, and some very neat featurettes have just been released over at the 3D site 'Marketsaw.com'
However, anyone wishing to avoid 'spoilers' are advised to avoid them, but those that aren't bothered by that will see some good stuff over there. It seems that the final running time is going to be 2.5 hours.
It also seems that the airwaves are again about to be assaulted by a potentially huge 'ballad' attatched to the movie which could bring even more attention to it - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/avatar/
A major t.v. channel here in the UK is having a week of 3D-related stuff, and there was an hour-long programme last night called 'The Greatest Ever 3D Moments', which is being repeated again tonight. It featured an interesting, irreverant look at the various developments in 3D over the years. The number one 'moment' was considered to be the latest 3D 'revival' which is going on right now with the new 'polarised' technology!
You'll be able to see it online here for a couple of weeks yet on Channel 4's catch-up '4 On Demand' site - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/3d-week/4od (note: it was bit too saucy in places for kids to be watching, as 3D 'porn' was featured too!)
....and they also gave a helpful tips guide here for anyone who still has the old-style 'anaglyph' glasses, showing how to get the best effect out of them - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/3d-week/articles/get-the-best-3d-effect
vaderios said:
But since Adywan has confirmed he plans to put 'retractable' teeth on his 'Slug mouth' version,
Not sure about that. i think that ady will not make a slug interior mouth.
I'm looking forward to it, as it's listed under the 'Asteroids' heading on his planned list of changes on page 1. He might decide to go another effects route though.
vaderios said:
Taking The idea from SWWR switching the angles in the death star escape i came to that conclusion that stylisticaly and visualy would be nicer if the angle is upper rather down. So the falcon seemed to enters from the up before switching again to normal one in the later shot.
Tried to eliminate the white spots replacing them with space. Assuming that the cave has gases and smoke(as we see later) some slight rays of light enhance the depth here.
I really like your 'downwards' angle in this shot though vaderios. Nice idea.
And I remember hoping for this asteroid opening to show the starfield and a hint of the asteriod belt beyond it for consistency.
I'm not sure about your 'mist' idea in the shot that follows, as I think I'd prefer that kept to the inside of the Slug itself, although it might get 'steamy' in there I guess. However, it's difficult to guage just how far down in the hole the Slug actually is, but like Monroville, I also remember suggesting that there could be a hint of the 'open mouth' at the bit seen in the distance in the cave shot he showed.
But since Adywan has confirmed he plans to put 'retractable' teeth on his 'Slug mouth' version, then I guess we shouldn't necessarily get a glimpse of teeth at this point anyway, as he may be planning on keeping that reveal for when the Falcon goes to escape.
I also really liked your new 'sky' in Leia's 'apartment' shot vaderios. :)
Monroville said:
Hmm... should the Falcon be somewhere in the middle of the frame? Could the "big one" that Han wants to get closer to be the moonish one on the left, with the asteroid directly northeast of it be the one the Falcon does a spin underneath of to avoid?
Not to mention, at 2:24 to 2:28 from this clip, the Falcon is veering to our right, so when the camera changes to show it flying away at 2:29, it should indeed be moving to the left side of the screen in the image above (toward the bigger one), as opposed to being at the far right corner (though I could see the Falcon heading left, then turning to the right, accounting for the moment leading to Han's decision, whereupon he veers back to the left towards the big one we've seen previously, as shown above).
I can't say that I've ever thought of the Falcon's path as being this or what was shown in your diagram Monroville.
In the shot immediately before the one shown here, the Falcon looks like it is then straightening up as it goes offscreen and we watch a few moments of this TIE starting to tumble downwards towards us....so that by the time we cut to this shot here, it looks correct and the Falcon looks like it's where it should be - it was straightening up to then veer to it's right as shown here.
Although big, I never saw this asteroid shown here as being the one they eventually enter. I recall bringing up how I really disliked the big asteroid shown here because unlike the rest of the ones we see, it merely seems to slide across the shot, rather than be 'tumbling' a little, and is too rounded unlike the 'irregular' shapes of the others. However, vaderios reckons that Adywan has confirmed that it's going, so YAY! from me, as I must have missed that.
To me, it's always seemed that the Falcon then travels quite a bit yet from it's right-hand position in this shot here before we eventually get to see the final big 'irregular'-shaped asteroid in front of the cockpit window as Han says "I'm going in closer to one of the big ones".
vaderios said:
Just to clarify, the area I was referring to which ends in Vader being seen to go down steps is behind where those crewmembers are looking on here. Where the steps led to was just barely out of sight here, but I always thought that the doorway to Vader's control quarters were just down there -
Which its get depressing how close are everything in a 20 Km ship :D
Well I stand by what I thought were reasonable and logical enough reasons for that which I listed in my 1st post on this page here - http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-NEW-TRAILER-AVAILABLE-NOW/post/385576/#TopicPost385576
.....and I've always assumed that the other stairs that went upwards on the far left of your 'dimming lights' shot led to other areas that would access the rest of the large 'tower' they are in, with lifts to the main bulk of the ship itself (there's certainly a doorway on the left just as Vader enters the 'control room', as well as one further along which would give access to that side of the 'tower', and there would be some on the other side too)....but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Adywan reckons for his version.
Vaderios, there is indeed a momentary 'dimming' in this shot, and it's on the GOUT too. It looks as if there was a deliberate (?) slight dimming of the lighting above the main walkway only.
So what do you think? requires fix? Or its a trick so the eye move off from the background?
Not sure about it either way vaderios, but it doesn't look like the whole shot has darkened, but only that the lights above have dimmed a little. Could be a couple of reasons why the 'Executor's lights might dim I guess.
TheTome said:
I'm curious, the SE shot of Vader's shuttle flying toward the executor, could that not be used as Needa's shuttle flying over instead? Keep the shot, change the context?
Are you meaning actually replace the existing new shuttle drop shot with the SE shot so that it looks like we now fade in from Yoda to seeing 'Needa's' shuttle heading upwards towards the underside of the 'Executor'?
Or do you mean cutting to the SE shot after the point in Adywan's new shuttle shot where it's just dropped out of the Stardestroyer bay....or something else altogether?
ImperialFighter said:
Having looked at all the relevant scenes, we never see that path and door (to Vader's quarters) clearly. What we do see is Vader turning the corner on his right, once he's past the 'control room' section, after Piett tells him that the Emperor wishes him to make contact. We then cut to a few seconds (approx. 5 or 6) of the 'Executor' coming out of the asteroid field, before cutting back to Vader inside his quarters.
I reckon this brief cut to the Executor works fine in 'real-time' before we cut back to Vader in his quarters, because I think the dooway to his quarters is literally just around that right corner that he turns into.
Unfortunately I don't have a screenshot of it, but later on, just after Vader has choked Captain Needa, he then disappears off around that right corner again, and just before the scene ends, we can see that he begins to go down steps. The 2 'security guards' seen standing in front of the doors in the 'unused' shot seen below here (one can be seen in the actual shot above), are not at the top of the stairs that Vader goes down after he chokes Needa....because I believe they are the 2 'security guards' that happen to be disposing of Needa at this point.
Here's an 'unused' shot showing the outside doorway to Vader's quarters, which is just barely out of shot at the end of the Captain Needa scene....showing the steps that Vader goes down at that point -
'Security guards' are normally stationed outside (as they seem to be at various other doorways, too), but were carrying Needa away in the scene where they would have been positioned here normally, which would have identified the positioning easier for us to begin with.
Just to clarify, the area I was referring to which ends in Vader being seen to go down steps is behind where those crewmembers are looking on here. Where the steps led to was just barely out of sight here, but I always thought that the doorway to Vader's control quarters were just down there, as seen in the 'unused' shot above -
vaderios, there is indeed a momentary 'dimming' in this shot, and it's on the GOUT too. It looks as if there was a deliberate (?) slight dimming of the lighting above the main walkway only, at this point in your right-hand shot.
vaderios said:
Artistic License? XD
Well everything comes down to that and personal tastes of course, and I'm interested to see how much or how little Adywan will end up altering those initial 'Executor' reveal shots.
But apart from the positioning of the Stardestroyer underneath it, I always thought the eventual 'long shot' of the 'Executor' worked well.
vaderios said:
We can always have a bigger Executor reveal lol. Going back and back until its full on frame :) showing more fleet too.(exiting from hyperspace?)
I'm sure a lot of things are possible vaderios, but I just don't know if Adywan will want to show them.
By the way, I've come across another couple of easily missed 'wrong-way-round' shots to do with 'Hoth' that I don't recall ever seeing flagged up, and have never noticed before! Thankfully, they can be easily re-'flipped' for 'consistency' and the 'flow of action' and the look of things won't be adversely affected in any way. :)
I'll cover them along with the 'Dagobah' one I recently came across (which can be re-'flipped' with no problems too), when I can organise the screenshots to show things properly.
After initially being uncertain about the 'flipped' shots in 'ANH:Revisited', I soon grew appreciative of them, and am looking forward to the 'continuity' that the ones in 'ESB:R' will give.
vaderios said:
....this also happens to be the same kind of 'wider' angle that was used in this nearer Executor shot added to the SE (it seems this won't be included in 'ESB:R' though, which is a pity, as I liked this particular shot, especially if the 'Executor' element had been 'colour-corrected'. Who knows, perhaps Adywan may re-use these elements somewhere else eventually?....)
If you look closely that shot (better in HD)
You will notice that its just a cheap 2d element that has even bad cutout and antialiasing. ILM at its best
Ady has color correct it again to match the previous shots in the AVCHD.
Sure, I know that the SE 'Executor' shot seems to be a 're-use' of sorts although it's nicely 'framed' a little differently, and I guess I just like the 'size' that the 'wider' underbelly angle gives to it.
And thanks for showing the proper colouration. Looks great.
Ganamae said:
An entire large-size Wampa costume was made for the film, however difficulties with the costume caused many of the scenes and all the fully-body shots to be eliminated from the film.
.....Adywan soon discovered from his early efforts that it's not so easy to create a convincingly scary 'Wampa' after all....
Monroville said:
the other thing that can be done is slim down the brighter underbelly area of the Executor to match the angle and perspective of the surrounding SDs.
Something like this?
That would give it the same kind of 'narrow' aspect that is similar to this shot of when it exits the asteroid field (apologies for the poor quality, as I couldn't find a better one of this on google) -
....but personally, I reckon the 'Executor's existing 'wider' angle of view still gives a far more impressive, 'larger' look overall for it's first proper reveal, as seen below, so I guess I prefer any 'artistic license' involved here -
....this also happens to be the same kind of 'wider' angle that was used in this nearer Executor shot added to the SE (it seems this won't be included in 'ESB:R' though, which is a pity, as I liked this particular shot, especially if the 'Executor' element had been 'colour-corrected'. Who knows, perhaps Adywan may re-use these elements somewhere else eventually?....)
....and while we're on the subject of 'Executor' shots....I don't remember this being mentioned, but am I the only one that always finds this shot below a little unconvincing? I don't know if it's a 'lighting' thing or just me, but rather than seeing a 'distant Executor' beyond the Stardestroyer nearest to us, I always see a massively 'out-of-scale' Stardestroyer travelling just beside it, lol! With all the potentially great angles that the epic-sized 'Executor' could have been filmed from, I just find it looking kind of diminished in this 'forced perspective' shot of it. Perhaps if the top of the nearest Stardestroyer had been passing much closer to us in the frame, or something like that, it would have sold the 'Executor' as being in the 'distance' a little better than the way it turned out. It could just be me though.... (I've included 2 shots to give an idea of the movement in the shot) -
vaderios said:
The far star destroyer should be in front of the underbelly SD. I think.
Monroville said:
Not just that, but the angle of the regular SD compared to the Executor don't match: in the close-up, you can see the dividing line of the Executor underbelly. Compare that to the regular Star Destroyer - it looks like the Executor is travelling with a list of 20 to 30 degrees!
Also, the SD on the far right should not be visible in one or the other picture. If you go by the close-up shot, the far right SD would be on the other side of the Executor covered up by the ship. If you go by the far away shot, the far right SD would be off screen in the close-up.
The main thing about these 2 shots that was always the most jarring to me was that the position of the Stardestroyer underneath the 'close-up' of the Executor didn't match it's position in the 'long-shot' which came afterwards. But since I remember Adywan mentioning this previously, I'm hopeful he's able to do something about that.
Have to say that I prefer to see the Executor's 'tower' detail etc. in that initial 'long-shot' though vaderios.
As far as that Stardestroyer seen in the distance in the 'close-up' shot, I guess it could be one that is 'hidden behind' the Executor in the 'long-shot'....but going by the camera angle in the 'close-up' shot, I reckon it would also work if that Stardestroyer was changed to be coming in the opposite direction instead, to seem like it's the SD seen in the distance on the left of the 'long-shot' shot. And I'm not entirely sure that the main SD seen in the 'close-up' shot of the Executor is the correct size either. Too small perhaps, if it's 'tower' size is judged against the 'long-shot' of the Executor?
However, even the Stardestroyers seen in the shots that come before the 'close-up' of the Executor don't seem to match either where their 'height' levels and layout is concerned, so I'm going to be interested to see just how much tweaking Adywan does in the sequence or not.
My own take on all this is that the 'scale' of various things in many shots throughout ESB and ROTJ seem to conflict unfortunately, and that while some things can probably be improved, some others probably can't be. As well as some of the 'miniature' and 'prop' work, some of the 'compositing' also left a lot to be desired in places as far as getting the scale of things correct....but I can accept the discrepancies as part of the 'charm' of those mainly wonderful old-style special effects done across the OT.
I feel sorry for Adywan though, as some of these 'scaling' issues must be driving a perfectionist like him nuts! :)
Adywan, with the 'scaling' rule of thumb, starting point thing being established as being the outer 'Bridge' detail on the 'Executor's' command tower (whose tower is similar in size to the 'standard' Stardestroyer ones)....I just wondered if it's even possible for you to amend this moving shot where the Falcon is concerned or not, or if it's going to have to stay as it is.
This was always a great shot that I liked, and it will remain a great shot even if it won't be altered. Just curious, but I'll understand if you don't want to confirm it either way yet.
vaderios said:
And for those who interested,
Here is the size changes.
-Angel
This was a helpful comparison shot vaderios, thanks.
Adywan's newly-scaled shuttle will look even better in the shot now that it's slightly bigger than before.
And it's good to know that the existing ROTJ one in the 'forward' bay seems less jarring now -
Thanks for that vaderios.
So it is a 'standard' Stardestroyer after all.... Looks great now. :)
Guess the 'technical journals' were indeed wrong about this one.
Perhaps someone can clarify this for me?
This is something else I've been wondering for a while now, as I haven't seen Adywan's AVCHD 'Empire' to see how this particular scene was 'colour-corrected'.
Those in-depth 'technical journals' over at the 'TFnet' site reckon that these following 'tower' shots belong to the 'Executor', and going by the SE DVDs I can see why.... However, although the SE colouration makes it look like this 'tower' is somewhat BLUE, it is nowhere near the stronger colour of the SE 'Executor' itself that comes a couple of shots later....which isn't saying much, considering the quality of the colouring on the SE's....
The other thing that makes me query the info. on that site about this, is that the original colouration in the GOUT makes this 'tower' seem even more like the 'whiteness' of a 'standard' Stardestroyer, rather than the 'blueness' of the 'Executor'.
I always thought that when this 'tower' appears, that we are seeing a 'standard' Stardestroyer in 'close-up' which seems huge in itself....before we cut away to a 'standard' Stardestroyer (the same one perhaps?) being 'overshadowed' by something bigger....before we finally end up cutting to see the reveal of the 'Executor' overhead -
....so could someone kindly confirm that this is the case on Adywan's AVCHD too?
One of the things I'm really looking forward to in 'ESB:R' is better colouration for the various craft seen, especially the Stardestroyers and the 'Executor'....as seen in this shot that was previously previewed -
Enigmas said:
However, I am bothered by the flight path of the shuttle during Needa's visit to the Executor. It seems a bit arching and ponderous to me (for all 7 seconds it's on screen). Is that flight path final?
It's not really that big of a deal. I'm just (exasperatingly) curious. :)
Have to say that although the 'zippy-ness' of the original 'box' craft has gone, I reckon the new 'drop-down' and path downwards looks really good with this new shuttle. I think it's movement still works well with the existing music cue that's heard here.
Just as an aside - I always thought that this was another alternative place where part of the impressive, slow-moving 'overhead' Stardestroyer element that is being discarded from the start of 'ROTJ:Revisited' might have integrated nicely....although it would have meant re-working the new shuttle's flightpath (and music cue) a little differently -
....just after the scene on Dagobah which ends with Yoda telling Luke "That is why you fail"....the fade would then go to the 'ROTJ shuttle' dropping down and opening it's wings, and the background would now just be a starfield with a glimpse of one or two other Stardestroyers which also seem to be in a 'holding pattern' at this point (no TIEs dropping down either, of course)....
....then perhaps at a point where the wings have fully extended, we'd then cut to the shot which reveals the 'Executor' below as Adywan's new shuttle continues on it's path downward from underneath the front bay instead (with the shots 'colour-corrected' to match up, of course) -
So it would have had the same sort of an 'extra shot' feel that Jaitea's version had - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6B92nPs8lg
However, it turned out to be a moot point now that Ady has pointed out that the shuttle in the ROTJ shot is the wrong scale (too big) coming out of the 'forward' bay anyway....and I'm personally more than happy with how his new version has turned out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSjLImZq7Ao
adywan said:
The first pic is the model built for the close up shots of the stardestroyer tower during the Endor battle while the bottom one is for the close-up shots of the Executor in ROTJ. You can see the correct Executor tower during the Tydirium "code clearence" scene
Ah, many thanks for clarifying that for me Adywan.
Here's a good behind-the-scenes shot of it -
....so that means that the proper black and white shot of the 'Executor' Superstardestroyer tower was this one here -
....which is the type seen at the bottom of these variations shown here -
.....whereas this shot is not the 'Executor' after all, but is just a 'standard' Stardestroyer's tower (as seen 2nd from the bottom in the variations photo seen just above) -
On re-reading the 'technical journals' site, it seems they didn't state that this one below was an 'Executor' tower after all. I obviously mis-read it first time around, so sorry for any confusion. This is definately just one of the 'standard' Stardestroyer towers after all (as seen in the colour shot shown just above) -
These 'technical journals' seem pretty well researched overall, but I wouldn't assume everything is correct with all their 'facts'. But with so much information to take in there, I certainly got mixed up on this one.
However, I came across something else at that site to do with the 'Executor' that I've been meaning to query, but as it's not a 'scale' thing, I'm heading back to the 'ESB:R' thread with it....
