ImperialFighter

vaderios said:

ImperialFighter said:

...and although we don't see the top of the set entranceway that Vader steps down from in the shot near the end of the movie...we do glimpse it briefly in the background of the 'Bounty Hunters' one below...

 

I suggested ages ago ady erase/paint the bounty hunter shots where the plate is static with a more open area like we see in the establishing shot but i think i took the answer that the bounty hunter meeting wasnt supposed to be in the bridge.

Wait, so you're saying that adywan said that the 'Bounty Hunter's conversation doesn't actually occur in the same 'Bridge' area that we see in this shot below? -

I must have missed that, as I'd always thought of this scene as being set on the 'Bridge', due to the similar look of things!  But that's great, as this makes perfect sense....because it explains the different-looking corridor layout that's seen behind the 'Bounty Hunters' in the shot below, which always used to throw me...

So that's another misconception that I previously had, that's been sorted out now.  Thanks! :)

I guess I'll just think of this as being some kind of 'control' area that's near to the docking bay underneath the Executor...where all the 'Bounty Hunters' boarded, and where Vader and Piett went down to meet them.

Lord Grievous said:

Sorry to backtrack to this topic again Ady, but it's just that I think your version of the holo scene (received for a donation) was damn near perfect.

This latest version has his right eye so dark it seems like he's got a black eye, and that smile (in my opinion) doesn't belong there.

As always, it's your edit, but I just wanted to clarify that I never complained about your first edit of this epic scene.

 So you're just complaining about his finished version instead?  Nice.

(on page 863) vaderios said:

So that leads why vader went from his chamber to the spot and didnt came directly from the door . Its like entered the door, entered the chamber, came out from the chamber to push the big button on the floor

(on page 863) ImperialFighter said:

as you mentioned vaderios, the way the shot is currently filmed gives the impression that Vader is coming down from the direction of the 'chamber' itself, for some uknown reason, before he addresses the Emperor...  It's something that kinda makes my preferred way of 'imagining' this overall sequence playing out in *real-time* a bit off...as the Executor shot would have needed to go on just a little longer to allow plenty of time for it to work better...because Vader looks as if he *did something* (?) inside the 'chamber' first, and would have required just a little more time to do so in *real-time* onscreen...

...which is why I'd have liked it to have been cut slightly differently in the first place...

(on page 864) Monroville said:

Imp Fighter: I think the biggest problem would be the timing/editing of the shot, ie. will the edit come across as a jump cut with Vader just "appearing" on the pedestal (and miss the flow of showing Vader coming down the chamber steps and then onto the pedestal)?

While I understand you're trying to figure out how to make it so it appears Vader just entered the room and went straight for the giant "Emperor pager button", my main concern would be how it comes across visually.

(on page 864) euroherbal said:

I don't know about you, but I always thought that manouvering a ship that huge out of an asteroid field took some time...time enough for Vader to reach his chamber, make his preparations, until communications gave green to talk to the Emperor, then descended from his chamber and kneeled on the holo-pad.

And here's some additional thoughts on the 'hologram' scene, before I move onto other stuff -

Y'know, it's funny how you can see something in a certain way for so long, but then find that you've been looking at it the WRONG way all along...because I've now realised that part of the reason I always veered towards wanting to make sense of the WHOLE scene below as happening in *real-time*...is because the background music continued to build right up until the point where we cut to Vader descending his 'chamber' steps, instead of changing 'cue' at the point where Vader rounded the 'control room' corner and cut to the Executor! 

So although not everything seemed to gel 100%...combined with the fact that the 'chamber'/'hologram' room seemed very close-by, just around that corner...the same cue continuing throughout the scene helped to give me the (false) impression that the whole thing kinda seemed to be playing out in *real-time*...

(which is why I always previously thought that a direct cut to Vader *just-about-to* step on the small 'holopad' would have made the *real-time* thing work better...rather than seeing him descending from the top of the 'chamber' first)

But thanks to the recent comment by euroherbal quoted above, here's how I'll definately see the whole sequence as playing out from now on -

Piett notifies Vader that the Emperor has commanded him to make contact, and he replies "Move the ship out of the asteroid field so that we can send a clear transmission"...and as the music begins to build at this point...Vader rounds the corner at the end of the 'control room' section that's just beyond the 'bridge'...

...and then we immediately cut to the shot of the Executor exiting out of the asteroid field...but although the music continues to build until the END of it...I'll now look on this particular shot as STARTING AFTER a short *jump-ahead-in-time* has passed by since Vader rounded the corner...allowing for an unknown period of time for the Executor to have travelled through more of the asteriod field FIRST...

...INSTEAD of thinking that the Executor just happened to be exiting the edge of the asteroid field at this precise moment, like I used to, when we cut to it...  (which seems far too convenient now, and doesn't tally with seeing it accompanied by 2 stardestroyers just a little earlier anyway...as they would have remained in the asteroid field to continue the search)...

...and then we immediately cut to Vader descending the steps of his 'chamber', as he walks towards the small 'holopad'...which now works perfectly for me, since he could easily have had enough time to go inside his 'chamber' FIRST (for whatever reason), before he communicated with the 'hologram'...due to looking on the previous Executor shot as being a short *jump-ahead-in-time* by this point, since we last saw him...

...before we then eventually cut to the Emperor's 'hologram' appearing...

So this is a sequence that will work perfectly for me in future, now that I realise it's just another one of those scenes that can be made sense of by looking at it as involving a short *jump-ahead-in-time* moment.... 

...and here's a couple of other examples below, for instance -

Here we see the Falcon approaching cloud city...but it's buildings are still a good distance away at this point...  

...but then there's a short *jump-ahead-in-time* moment, as we then immediately cut to the Falcon suddenly flying amongst the buildings now...

...and in this example below, we see Leia is holding Han's arm as Lando leads them towards Vader...

...and they are in conversation as they turn around this corridor...

...but although it *seems* that we then cut to a *real-time* continuation of the previous shot, which suddenly has Han and Lando on the wrong side of Leia now, with Leia's arms at her sides....I DON'T happen to see it this way...but instead look on this shot as being merely another short *jump-ahead-in-time* moment, set a little further ahead somewhere, compared to where they rounded the corner in the previous shot...

...and rather than hearing the end of what was being discussed in the previous shot above, I reckon we are just picking up again at a slightly LATER point in their continuing conversation when we hear Han say "...But aren't you afraid that the Empire's gonna find out about this little operation, and shut you down?", at this point...

So this shot can seem correct after all, as they've just eventually ended up swapping places during their short 'tour' of the city...at some earlier point after they rounded the corner in the previous shot...

(and this accounts for the different set, floor, and people activity too, of course)

Grythandril said:

I know you have made some vast improvements over the bridge scenes including adding the stairs.  but I noticed a couple of things which you may have allready addressed, if not it may give you a headache and I apologise for it. 

The scene at the start showing main shot of the bridge, i  noticed that either side of the main door is shown but not the roof of the door.  This is shown in other parts of the movie.  Will you be adding that in? 

Also the officer standing there as well i take it as piett which they used at the end of the movie.  Will he be replaced or covered up?

The scene where vader is talking to needa via the hologram i noticed that far right of the screen is another part of the holoarea.  will you be removing that and putting part of the stairs to the bridge?

Okay, here's some shots to make things easier to see Grythandril, and a few thoughts -

As you've pointed out, the 'top' of the entranceway to the wide view of the 'Bridge' is missing...compared to the set entranceway that Vader exits from near the end of the movie, that is seen in your top shot.  In fact the 'Bridge' entranceway itself is wider than the set near the end, too...although the shot near the end has cleverly been 'zoomed' into now, to disguise the fact.   It's just one of those unfortunate 'continuity' inconsistencies that can't really be sorted it seems.  Not without ruining the 'composition' of the 'wide' shot anyway, as adywan just confirmed.  

As you've mentioned, we also glimpse a couple of corridor set areas that seem to contradict things at times too...  And at one point, we briefly see the top of the narrower set entranceway during the 'Bounty Hunters' scene.  It's a pity that both of the set entrances weren't made the same wide width to begin with, but It's just one of these things, and we'll just have to accept some 'continuity' inconsistencies every now and then.  There's quite a few things throughout the movie that will remain a compromise at the end of the day, and this seems to be one of them.

Anyway, here's the original SE 'Bridge' shot that Vader exits from near the end...

...and here's the original SE set that Vader steps down from...

...and here's what adywan's done to them for his edit...

...and although we don't see the top of the set entranceway that Vader steps down from in the shot near the end of the movie...we do glimpse it briefly in the background of the 'Bounty Hunters' one below...

...and here's what we see of the corridor set that's at the back of the 'Bounty Hunters' when Vader steps down behind them and talks to Piett...

...and here's the section that I think you referred to, that's on the right-hand side of the 'hologram' shot...

Hope that helps a little.

Grythandril, I'd be interested in seeing a bigger version of your top shot if possible, as I haven't seen that one before.

I was intending to ask about something you've thrown up here, too, and am in the middle of sorting out a couple of shots to do with what you've mentioned.  I'll go into them shortly.

doubleofive said:

ImpFight, I'm so grateful you can do your own screenshots now. ;-)

 I bet...but don't think I've forgotten about that little 'mock-up' I'm planning to ask you about sometime, that I mentioned a while back... :)

(on page 860) vaderios said:

Not to mention that the pylon behind Vader seems to be an empty box like they forgot to paint/cover it

 

(on page 861) vaderios said:

(on page 864) Monroville said:

If there is to be any sort of geographical sense of this, the area behind Vader would have to be altered to create an opening to the meditation chamber - the meditation chamber step's wouldn't need to be shown, as the foreground wall beside Vader could conceiveably cover them (though an opening would still have to be created).

It would have to be along these lines:

either the area behind Vader has to be recreated to show the meditation chamber room (being that the pedestal he kneels on is about ONE FOOT away from the bottom circular step to his med chamber), as we should be able to see the edge of the step behind Vader's extended leg, or:

Vader has to be pushed back towards the edge of the wall to account for NOT seeing any part of the med chamber steps, much less the room that surrounds it.  You would also have to add some sort of light source (on the airbrushed wall area above and behind Vader) or light "back wash" from the med chamber to help indicate the presence of another room and opening.

That is, if this really needs to be done... personally, I can see it left "as-is", with maybe some lighting backwash from the left area (to account for the med chamber being more brightly lit than the hologram chamber) and the area between the 2 columns behind Vader to indicate something of an opening.

Monroville, although I prefer that adywan kept the original composition by adding the 'chamber' step into the shot...I just wanted to say that I thought your idea to move the Vader/'holopad' element over to the left of the frame was a neat possible solution at the time. :)

Okay, here's something else that I'm really pleased with, that I'd like to go into now -

Because the existing area behind Vader in the 'side onwards' shots of the 'hologram' was misleadingly filmed (due to being a 're-used' set)...I reckon one of adywan's BEST new fixes is the subtle, but brilliant solution that that he came up with for tweaking that small portion of set detail on the left-hand side of the frame...as it plausibly gives the illusion that both 'halves' of the whole '8'-shaped room connect properly now!

So finally, all the various side views of the overall '8'-shaped room will seem to fit together perfectly in future.  Here's how the footage now matches up -

Let's start with the shot which shows Vader descending the 'chamber' prop.  I'll refer to this as being the 'front' half of the overall '8'-shaped room.  The entrance to this section of the room is somewhere offscreen on the right-hand side of the footage at this point...

...and in the scene below where Vader turns around from Veers towards the 'viewscreen' behind him, the entrance remains somewhere offscreen on the right-hand side of the footage at this point... 

...and in the shot of Piett below, we can now make out a glimpse of the red light that was seen on the 'pillar' with the single 'slit' in the shots above...which gives us a clearer idea of it's proximity to the entrance that leads to this 'front' half of the '8'-shaped room, which we couldn't see in the previous shots shown...

...and as this shot moves to follow Piett coming around Vader's 'chamber' (and walking onto it's bottom step I believe)...we can now see another 'pillar' with a single 'slit' that is positioned on the other side of the entrance, behind Piett...but can't see beyond this 'side' section of the set into the 'back' half of the '8'-shaped room...

...as the only other view of the 'side' section of the set in this scene is this shot of Piett soon afterwards, shown below...which just shows the same 'pillar' that's situated behind the 'chamber' as we saw in the similar Veers angle shown above...

...however, due to adywan's alteration to the left-hand side of the 'side onwards' view of the 'hologram' (see bottom of comparison shot below)...it now works perfectly as being a short section of 'tubing' that would join just beside the 'pillar' that's seen behind Piett in the shot below...

...and because of the angle that Piett's close-up is filmed at...if you imagine that he had previously been standing on the step that's now been added to the shot below...then that particular 'pillar' seen behind him would indeed just be offscreen when we eventually see the 'side onwards' view of the 'hologram' in the 'back' half of the '8'-shaped room...

A teffific little enhancement!

rpvee said:

The audio is a temp track, right?  Often the end of some of the Emperor's lines end slightly after the mouth stops moving.

As has been repeated ad infinitum recently...yes it is.

But even if it stays this way in the final edit, just think of it as being a slight delay in the 'hologram's audio signal...

TV's Frink said:

Currently a work in progress - all ideas are welcome.

 

16) Creating Massive Walls of Text, Especially if You are Just Rambling

 

19) Posting Massive Images

 

20) Quoting Massive Image Posts

 

21) Quoting Massive Walls of Text, Especially if You Just Say "I agree"

Great list TV's Frink. :)

I'm not fully onboard with number 16 however, as sometimes the ramblings can be entertaining, even if there's nothing remotely informative in them... ;)  Things would get pretty dull if every comment ended up as just a short snappy soundbite or riposte, I reckon.  People can just scroll down, at the end of the day.

Absolutely agree with numbers 19, 20, and 21 though, as they are COMPLETELY maddening to have to scroll down through again, if re-quoted by anyone!  And overly-large pics should ideally just be given a 'clickable' link, if someone wants to show very large shots...and I can't understand why anyone can't just merely SAY that they 'agree with everything' in any long posts that may have just been posted beforehand by someone...rather than quoting the whole damn thing all over again, lol! 

Also, maybe you could re-arrange the order of the final list a little to reflect the worst forum 'crimes'...as I reckon 'Spelling/Grammar' shouldn't be looked on too harshly, and certainly shouldn't be listed at the top.  Especially when there's a few around here who don't have English as their first language...and to allow for those that seem to be on strong 'meds' half the time! ;)

adywan said:

I haven't touched the "interference" effect. It's exactly the same as the previous video

Ah, thanks for clarifying.  There seems to be a slight difference between this and yesterdays Youtube upload, where that's concerned.  Either that, or it was just me.  It's just that you said there were some tweaks since yesterday's version.

Really neat to have a moving side-by-side comparison with the SE version now. :)

doubleofive said:

Your version looks SO MUCH BETTER.

Absolutely, but am I right in thinking the 'interference' lines seem more prominent now compared to your previous version adywan, or is it just a Youtube thing?  The 'interference' effect seem to be subtler in the previous clip, but it may just be me.

I've no idea how anyone could be less than delighted with what they saw yesterday, to begin with, considering the final soundtrack wasn't in place yet.  It was awesome work.

JW Rinzler's Blog said:

Unfortunately, The Making of ESB went out with a few mistakes.  We hope to fix all of these by the fourth printing.

So it's taken three printings to pick up on these?

I wonder when the fourth printing comes out?

Here's another couple of things for now vaderios -

(on page 864) vaderios said:

PS: Anyone notice how asymmetrical are the black think lines (matte section) in the holo room? It screams that it is painted and it lacks the style of a more hard surface and less the organic/painted look...

(on page 866) vaderios said:

I tried to fix most of the surrounding problems too

I'd actually never looked at the ceiling detail closely before vaderios, so this was another new one for me. :)

I like how you've made the black lines/slits a little more symmetrical in your mock-up, but there's a couple of other alternatives to consider too - instead of 'shortening' the pair of lines/slits in the way you've done, to make them match...the other pair could have been 'lengthened' instead, so that they go right up to the top of the frame like all the other pairs.  And another alternative is this - if they are just left the way they are, then the pairs of lines/slits could just be *imagined* to be an 'alternating' pattern of short and long lines/slits going all the way around. 

Personally, I reckon any of these possibilities can work, so I've no particular preference...but I do think that the actual thickness of these ceiling lines/slits could be made to match a little better between them all...as I notice you didn't reduce the width of the VERY thick one nearest the left-hand side of the frame in your mock-up. (although that one may just be a 'forced perspective' thing that's fine as it is)

(and although I've absolutely no problem with the indistinct detail of Vader in the existing 'hologram' shots, due to the overall lighting levels in them...I thought you did a nice job of him in your mock-up)

(on page 864) vaderios said:

...the black areas that were painted in the holo shots are there. So i assume that ady will not bother with that detail because it doenst affects the story but to me is details that fills the aesthetic. 

Not to mention the damn dark/light areas that varyies from the shot to shot

This is another of those little things I never noticed before vaderios. :)

The ceiling in these two shots is merely 'darkened out', compared to how it looks in the 'side-onwards' shots of the 'hologram'.  I haven't time to check, but I think at least one of these is a moving shot, so I'm not sure if it's something that can be made to match the look of the 'hologram' shots better, or not.  But if not, then I'm just going to *imagine* that it's down to either the lighting levels in this 'section' of the '8'-shaped room...or that this 'section' has a different type of ceiling above it, compared to the 'hologram' section! :)

Also - althought I haven't checked the footage here...is the brighter-lit area on the right-hand side of Needa in the bottom shot just a result of the 'chamber' giving off more light due to it being more open here?

Okay vaderios, there were a lot of different (and sometimes confusing) comments to do with the whole 'Emperor's hologram' scene that cropped up, and lasted for several pages from page 860 onwards...but I've now found some time to get back to you on a few things about it. 

However, since the full 'Emperor' clip has just been previewed, it's now okay for me to add a few extra thoughts on it too.  So I'm re-writing some things I'd started to type earlier, and will to need to split them over seperate posts, as things will get too confusing if I try go into them all in a single post. 

Here's the first thing then -

(on page 866) vaderios said:

Ady I ve noticed some variance that might be interesting.

ImpFighter i want your input here if you want :)

In the first image (i brighten it up in purpose) you can see before the holo appeared a different pattern on the wall.. That have two rentagle holes.

I tried think what would be more easy. adding a similar pylon like the rest of the others to that spot or make the back walls like they should be?

Assuming that not only one pylon with that pattern would be present thats why i ve made 2. Maybe i'm wrong and its only one.

Fancy that this room is full of surprises and variations

For the more radical ones the double rentagles might be the emitters of the holograms :P ;)

To recap, I've accepted that the 're-used' set that was used for both the current 'chamber' shots and the 'hologram' shots DON'T give a good enough impression that it's meant to be one big circular (or oval) room, unfortunately...due to the angles it's been filmed at...but thanks to some recent comments, I'm now fully onboard with the notion of *imagining* that the onscreen footage shows an almost '8'-shaped room instead...as this makes more sense of how the footage looks.

And my own preference would be for the walls around both 'sections' of this *imaginary* '8'-shaped room to remain a little different to each other...to help sell this notion as much as possible. 

So while it was an interesting idea vaderios, I'd have to say that I wasn't too keen on your proposal to make the 'pillars' behind the front-facing 'hologram' have two 'slits' on them instead of one...as this would have the effect of making them too similar to the ones at the back of the 'other' section where Vader's 'chamber' is...

So, my own preference was to keep to the current single 'slits' seen on the surrounding 'pillars' at the back of the 'hologram' shots...

...so that it's back wall would remain different from the back wall of the 'chamber' shots, where the 'pillars' seen either side of the 'viewscreen have two 'slits'...

However, the fact remains that we can briefly see that the 'pillar' on the right-hand side of the current shot below, actually shows two 'slits', just before the 'hologram' appears...

...but I'm pleased to see that the two 'slits' are effectively obscured in adywan's version...so things tie together better now with the back of the wall that's seen during the front-facing 'hologram' shots! :)

Nice job 005. :)

The new 'asteroid collision' shot looks terrific now, and it's just a pity the powers-that-be ended up losing the Executor's underneath detail, due to the crushed blacks.  The shot still looks great now though.

adywan said:

And ImperialFighter, the emperor scene has changed a little more since i sent you that pic

Excellent, in that case I'll remove it and await 005's comparison from the finished version.

doubleofive said:

I'll get a comp together in a few hours, hopefully.

Ah, we overlapped posts when I added those shots 005.  But I look forward to your comparison which will include the original too, as I'll add it to my 'round-up' shots.

Loconut, I was intending to say that your 'eyesore' was a nice little spot, lol.  I'd never noticed that before. :)

Wow adywan, you must be in a really good mood today, as it's not even the end of the month yet. :)

I wasn't expecting you to show this before the release, but I think everyone will agree that it looks (and sounds) awesome!

I was actually in the middle of drafting up some comments to do with a few things you previously brought up about the 'hologram' shots vaderios...but now I can also go into a few other things now that this final version is out there. :)  

YAY for the added 'chamber' step, and the alteration to the left of the frame behind it means that the '8'-shaped room thing works perfectly now with the footage we see previously!

ChainsawAsh said:

It's my understanding that it's a dark science fiction film taking place in the same universe as the Alien films, set years before the first Alien film.  It's not a "prequel" per se in that it isn't directly connected to the events of the main series.

It was implied that the origins of both the 'xenomorphs' and 'space jockey' would be revealed in the 2 prequels that were originally planned.  But with this latest 'Prometheus' proposal, there's a possibility that both these elements will remain a mystery now, if they even feature at all...

I'm interested to see if this will be the case...but if it is, then I sure hope some inferior, hack director isn't given the opportunity to follow-up this latest movie of Ridley's with the actual 'explanations' of how they came about...

I'll always wonder how Nolan's take on a 'Riddler' storyline might have panned out...

ImperialFighter said:

Monroville said:

One thing that I was really tense over was those scenes I mentioned earlier regarding the last ALIEN dvd release (concerning the "Brett looking for Jonesy in the cargo room" and most of the Alien scenes - the prior had a copper wash over the entire image and most if not all of the Alien scenes had a desaturated blue wash over the image). 

Thankfully, Ridley must have reconsidered these changes, as the copper and blue tints are gone, and ALIEN looks proper with a natural color timing.

Great!  I really must get a hold of the blu-ray set after all, now you've confirmed that the more 'natural' colour of the previous releases has been restored somewhat to the 'theatrical' cut of ALIEN.  That's made my day! :)

Oh wait...just to clarify, did you mean the blu-ray's colours are more like the dvd's colours ALL the way through now...or just these few scenes you've mentioned above?

Bingowings said:

He may be more famous for that in America but for the rest of the world he had already achieved immortality for...

Awsome clip, lol.  And now his dulcet tones are currently back on tv over here! -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_HMrOd2_QI  :)

haljordan28 said:

I would just like to say to Lucas  that you  can't take  money with you  when you die.  The only  true thing you  can take with you  is that which you  leave behind.  A legacy,  a body of work  and he went from being hailed  as a genius and master  film maker  to being ridiculed and  laughed at it.  He ruined his legacy  and his  reputation all for what? A few extra bucks.

There was plenty of spectacle on show throughout the prequels, so I wouldn't say that the problem was a lack of bucks spent by GL on them.  Other issues turned out to be the main problem with the disappointing results.

And also, compared to some wealthy folks on this planet, I don't think he's entirely deserving of his money-grabbing tag -  http://blog.moviefone.com/2010/08/05/george-lucas-to-donate-half-his-money/

Diego said:

Surprising to say the least, since I remember rumors that he wasn't too happy to have been part of the prequels.

Unexpected to be sure, but rather than being unhappy about being part of the prequels when initially asked, I reckon he was probably more unhappy about how they turned out...

I've never bothered with any of these CGI episodes before (or even the movie!), but may catch them one day out of curiosity.  I did like the look of the earlier, short, stylized, animated Clone Wars cartoon series however. 

TV's Frink said:

I can't ever get past the voices on PAL.  It's just not what I'm used to.

As I'm from PAL-land, they'll sound just perfect to me. :)

It's always good to have the option of both though.

Great news that this is imminent for everyone soon Jambe.  Well done, and your extra features sound neat too!