INVAR

darth_ender said:

I had forgotten to mention that if there is some way to remove the sun-sucking plot point (seems like it shouldn’t be too difficult–remove all references to it, and the darkening sky could simply be implied as the day wearing on during battle), it should be done. That is lame on a number of levels. And if this is done, clips of that effect could be run backwards, appearing to be the energy beam striking the distant sun, and used to simulate the supernova I’ve suggested.

That idea could also be realized if the planet’s natural rotation would reach ‘target window’ before being able to fire the sun killer blast that destroys a system. The sky darkening could simply be when sunset is reached as the focus cannon comes into line of sight range of D’Qar. It’s just a new twist on the Death Star orbiting Yavin in order to get a clear shot at Yavin IV. The clock simply ticks down during the planetary rotation of Starkiller Base.

My only two major wishes for TFA would be for the Starkiller Base to be completely redone in terms of destroying systems.

I mean, to suck a sun into an ice planet only to fire it in 5 distinct beams to blow apart 5 different planets is not only silly, but ridiculous - even for Star Wars ‘science’.

Why couldn’t they simply fire a hyperspace beam weapon into a targeted system’s star, that causes the sun to shrink and nova? The ensuing blast would wipe out all the planets in the system achieving the same effect cinematically - without the incredulity of repurposing the Mars Attacks nuke sucker effect. A shrinking gas giant that nova’s wold be pretty impressive and set itself apart from the Death Stars (see 2010 - The Year We Make Contact for how that idea works).

My second wish is to have Captain Phasma be the bad-ass with the electrified Tonfa going at it with Finn on Takodana. That would have firmly cemented her as numero-two bad-ass in this sequel trilogy ala Fett. Rather than Han blast her backwards as he did that FN trooper, I would have had her shot in the shoulder by Han and then have her use a another device in her armor to perhaps create a blinding flash so she could cover Kylo Ren’s escape with Rey. Nursing an injury I think that would have also helped out with the plausible reason she could not resist Finn and Han on the base when she was forced to lower the shields.

It’s a mind’s eye wish because that is not going to happen in a fan film, but those two things would have made the movie perfect.

It's a pair of folding macro binoculars Luke had in his rear left pouch that got jarred loose when he hit the weather vane.  In 1980 we originally thought it was his pistol, which would have made more sense to lose - but continuity left it in his holster when he was trying to climb back up the vane.

Excellent!

Love it!  Timing is excellent, love the new bit with the spider and the timing really shines.

I simply cannot wait to see the entire ESB Revisited all together!

Making an epic film…. perfect!

I'm certain it will be said that this was worth the wait.

I sincerely believe that you need to apply all these "suggestions" (which are now closed) to your own fan edit and save us all from these tireless suggestions for an edit that is near completion.

I am sure ROTJ:R is still open for suggestions.

Ronster said:

Those trees...I mean that forest now :D Is looking even better.

I know it's not finished but are you planning to add a bit more green to the roots? like moss in places?

I have also looked back over previous mock up of defined shafts of light shining through the Dagobah trees by others (not the team). And although I really think that effect is great I am not so sure it is exactly the right thing for the scene (to be very defined shafts of light) that is if you are going for recreating that effect from the theatrical version.

Anyway I have searched through many photo's to find a good reference and real world replication of the original matte in terms of sun and fog / mist and a subtle but beautiful lighting effect that is not "In your face". So I hope this can be of some help as a real world match

That is not a suggestion that is trying to be helpful. And I am sure you know what you want to achieve with the shot by now I just hope that is a good real world reference that can help you. But I am also now wondering If you are going for a real light source to re-create the original matte or do a green screen or perhaps combined both real and artificial elements?

It's going to be a tough cookie to keep Luke and R2 well defined and lit if you have a strong Back lit set by sunlight through trees. I guess the SE decided to give it a look more like the sun was coming from the other direction without altering the other shots. I think this x-wing shot will be tricky lighting wise If you go for re-creating the theatrical matte with a physical model. But this does get me excited for them.

sun is on the right on x-wing shot?

I think I recall reading somewhere on this thread, not exactly sure where to be exact - but that suggestions for this edit are now **closed**.

'Closed' as in 'ended', 'fini', 'over', 'shut', 'the time is past', etc., etc., etc.

Perhaps our incessant meddling and opinions would be better suited to the ROTJ:R thread from this time forward, yes?  

Let us leave the Artist alone to tweak and finish this work as he sees fit.  I am absolutely positive almost all of us are going to be awestruck and impressed with what he did to make our favorite film of all time, truly - perfect.

There is nothing more irksome to those creating, to have designs by committee constantly ringing in the ears while attempting to complete a vision.

adywan said:

I've added a few lasers as they enter the canyon so the two shots blend in better than it did originally. I've also tweaked the canyon quite a bit since the clip was shown.

i think the asteroid shot is fine the way it is. There are slight time jumps throughout the trilogy.  I really don't understand why that shot would be a problem. I've never heard anyone complain about that shot since the film came out.

one thing i do have to say though is that it isn't worth coming up with any more suggestions for changes. The edit is locked down now. All that is left to do is finishing adding the models. No more changes or enhancements will be made apart from what is left to do.

 YES!  AMEN!  YAY!

Finally!

The time grows closer to see and have the absolutely DEFINITIVE version of my favorite movie of all time!

Way to go Ady - you have already made it well worth the wait.  Perfection can't be rushed.

yoda1138 said:

Anyone else ever wondered why Vader saves Chewies life?

As Han is getting frozen, Chewie kicks off, Boba is about to blast him, Vader pushes Bobas gun away.  Considering Chewie is of no use to Vader, and Vaders fondness of choking even his own buddies, I always wondered why he spares the wookiee. Maybe under that dark exterior he's an animal lover.

 I think the answer to the question is very simple.

If you shoot the Wookie, you will just make him mad.

The SOUND of that sequence of the Star Destroyers on collision was ALWAYS missing something.  I think Ady gave the scene exactly the correct image to go with the sound we have heard for decades.

I say BRAVO on the shake.   I ALWAYS wondered why the sound never matched the image on screen.  

Now it does.

Harmy said:

I think the shots are fine as they are but if one did want to add a bit more dynamism to the camera movement, a bit of rotation could help. Here's a rough demonstration of the idea: http://uloz.to/xqKJtVAq/escape-from-hoth-revisited-mp4

 I'm not one to diminish the incredible job Ady is doing with this edit, but THAT little motion just made what Ady did with the Canyon shot more…. WOW!

DEFINITELY adds to the incredible job Ady already did - as if that were possible - but your "rough" demonstration just puts it right over the top.

Lucas most-likely was employing the Soviet doctrine of mass-produced ships intended to overwhelm an enemy by sheer numbers, with little consideration for safeguarding a pilot.

Such is the nature of tyrannical regimes throughout history.  The IMPS obviously considered it's citizens to be mere cogs serving the greater glory of the Empire.  

OMFG ADY!!!!!!

Pretty sure I jizzed in my pants watching that new clip.

It's 1980 ALL OVER AGAIN!!!

This is TRULY what a Special Edition SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

It takes a real fan to do what you did there.  

.Mac. said:

Well, I know this topic has been talked about a lot before, but I'll bite, only because I didn't have the chance to discuss it those times long ago :)

I disliked the SE addition of the shuttle leaving Bespin and especially hated that recycled shot from ROTJ of it landing, for the same obvious reasons that anyone else disliked those shots.

But I must admit, that particular SE long-view shot of Vader and co. walking on the platform didn't bother me, for a few reasons:

The side-view shot was done 'artistically' in that way, so for that, it visually looked good to me (Ady could do touch-ups wherever needed).

The music cue and chase sequence were not interrupted by this short addition, since it was placed immediately after Vader's dialogue - in fact, I'd argue that it added slightly more 'heft' to that otherwise short clip of Vader (unlike the other SE clips where they were intrusive where they were placed and threw off everything, so these must definitely be left out).

Lastly, it showed a good first reveal of Vader's shuttle. This is the main reason why I liked this particular SE clip, we see a good proper first view of his shuttle, instead of always inferring how Vader gets around. I think it is deserving to actually see his shuttle just once in ESB (prior to ROTJ), and here seems to be the only proper place to show it.

There has to be one significant change to this shot though. Instead of showing Vader's shuttle sitting there already waiting, his shuttle must be seen just starting to land and touching down on the platform. This is the only way I could see this clip working. It should be obvious that there is a time lapse between his "Bring my shuttle" line and the footage of him walking the landing platform, but at least this way it wouldn't seemingly contradict his previous demand.

At the very least, this was fun to finally lay out my 2 cents on this topic :)

I could go for that. Might even be a tiny bit amusing if after we hear Vader say "Bring my shuttle" and the SE side view of them walking along the platform is greeted with THE SHUTTLE landing right in front of him.  Would give credence to the idea that when Vader says "Jump" the Imps are instantaneous in meeting his demands.   

After all, who wants to end up like Capt. Needa?

The almost symphonic perfection of Luke's rescue was totally ruined with the SE addition of Vader's shuttle.

Totally unnecessary and it disrupted the pacing and beats of what was a very tight edit in that sequence.

Williams' score on the soundtrack sets the tempo for that entire scene and re-cutting it to add Vader's shuttle was a huge jolt that fractured what was perfection.

There is no enhancement needed whatsoever to the edit of that scene the way it was released.

Vader's three-word command was the epitome of bad-ass and fit with his entire character for that movie.  If they were ordered to 'bring it', then there's no reason to show Vader walking to it.

The original cut was perfect the way it was.  I'm glad Adywan is restoring it to how we best prefer it.

There's no point in messing with the Lobot shot.  None.

It's a perfect deception; Lando is leading his 'guests' into a trap.

Lobot, walking by in front up the stairs is the marker for the timeframe in which Lando will have Han and Leia in front of Vader.

I always believed after passing in front of Lando and quarry, walks to the holding area where Vader's troops are waiting and gives them the signal.

Lobot walks off screen, we do not see where he goes - we do not need to see where he goes.  He goes to get the stormtroopers.

No continuity error in that shot whatsoever.

None.

oh_riginal said:

I assumed they were flying around to the other side of Bespin before going out into space. Sort of flying "undercover" in a way. But when they went back and caught the attention of the TIE Fighters they lost their opportunity for an easy escape and had to get to space ASAP to go to lightspeed.

That's a good supposition.  I always assumed that the moment the Falcon blasted off from the platform that the Imps called out to the flight deck to intercept it - especially given Vader expected Leia and Chewie to be taken to his ship.

That would explain the TIEs in atmospheric pursuit and Lando may have been attempting to use cloud cover to mask their getaway. His concern for the TIEs of course coming after Leia tells him to turn around and go back for Luke.

As to an ISD being put into the shot -  I would advise against it.  I always assumed the Executor was the only ship in orbit - especially given the stealthy nature of the Empire being AT Cloud City.  A fleet of SDs would have probably given Lando a lot more concern about their intentions when they first arrived, rather than simply telling him Han and Leia were simply needed for questioning to find Skywalker.

I think the scene as it was originally edited and paced, was perfect in tone, tenor and intensity.  Adding anything else (including Vader's shuttle) was totally unnecessary and ruined the pacing.

I think Ady will rightfully handle this and help us old timers appreciate what a true SE should have been.

I was there for the first showing of Empire at 12 noon on May 21 1980. Saw it in Chicago in 70 MM at one of the last Cinemascope theaters in existence.

I can say that the establishing reveal of the Executor is well remembered by myself and my brother for we talked about that incessantly after the first several viewings.  I ended up paying to watch Empire in 1980 & in second run during 1981 96 times.

My memory is vivid on what we understood that establishing overhead shot to convey.  It was clearly a regular Star Destroyer as we deduced that from the others floating in the distance.  We never assumed that was an establishing shot of something new.

Not until the shadow covers the focused SD did we think that there was something bigger.

Then there's the shot of the standard SD from behind and above it, some massive and huge wall of metal eclipsing space above it.  Our jaws dropped at that point and the actual long shot of the Executor amidst the fleet had us awestruck.

For those of us in the audience, before we became uber Empire geeks as we are today - the initial shot in that sequence was never understood as something other than the same kind of ship that we were already familiar joining the others floating in the distance.  It was not until the SHADOW moves over the standard SD that we perceived there was something else there that was much more gargantuan than what we assumed were the most massive ships in the galaxy barring the Death Star itself (remember we saw a SD swallow up the Tantive IV just three years earlier).

So I vote with the crowd that says the initial shot of the bridge conning tower is that of a regular Destroyer that we end up seeing get eclipsed in the shadow of the Executor. 

Oldfan said:

Thanks for posting that clip. Fantastic as always. Forgive me if this has already been covered, but is that the cut of the Imperial March that you'll be using in the final version? I've always loved that particular segment of music and wished it was back in the movie where it belongs. I think it seems much more appropriate than the version they ended up using.

 

 

I second that notion.  More pronounced and less concert version.

I wish I knew of this forum back when ANH:R was being done - since Ady used the Imperial March in there for the DS reveal - the music that works especially well for Vader's entrance not he Tantive IV is the cue of music in the ESB when Vader walks into the Bespin torture chamber to watch Han get toasted.  Works perfect in that context.

Hope the cue used here for the Imp Fleet reveal uses the original cue as intended by Williams.  Much better IMHO.

OMFG Ady!!!

I just peed myself.

Absolutely incredible sir.  I have never been more excited for a release since.... well.... since the 3 years between Empire and Jedi!!!

In all seriousness - your work is what will cement the OT as fan favorites even among the current generation of kids who never saw them on the big screen in an era of total CGI.

OUTSTANDING!!

Gonna watch that clip a few hundred more times now.

Thanks for posting that news for Adywan.  I was stung in the heart when I read his post about the C&D possibility as looking forward to his completed ESB:R edit keeps me optimistic and enthused about having at least two of my absolute favorite films of all time - get the TRULY 'Special Edition' Lucas took a pass on.

Here is the good news as far as the original Saga goes and the threats that might come from the Mouse:

Ready for the first wrinkle in the Disney-Lucasfilm deal?

While Disney will own and release future films in the "Star Wars" series, the deal does NOT include the distribution rights to the pre-existing "Star Wars" films.

Those rights remain with 20th Century Fox. In fact, Fox owns distribution rights to the original 1977 "Star Wars" film in perpetuity in all media worldwide.

It also has theatrical, nontheatrical and home video rights worldwide to the other five films in the series through May 2020.

While the hypershot looks amazing and is really cool - I agree with the sentiments expressed against it's inclusion in the film itself.

When Star Wars debuted in '77 - the hyperspace jump after blasting from Mos Eisley caused the entire theater to bust into spontaneous applause due to how cool that was.  At 16 - I was already blown away from the opening shot, and the jump to lightspeed put me over into euphoria with the rest of the sold-out audience.

When Empire came out - everyone was looking forward to seeing that effect again - and Kersh was wise to take a triumphant moment from the first film and put it as a climax at the end of a middle-act that followed a major downer of the storyline.

I think putting the jump to lightspeed from a cockpit view in the middle of ESB, takes away from that triumphant moment to conclude our favorite episode of the saga.

It looks awesome - but as some suggested - perhaps as a menu item on the DVD.

dphirschler said:

That snow is blue...

 

Darryl

Yeah, but it's the YELLOW SNOW that you have to watch out for.

adywan said:

The smile was a nod to the original Emperor who smiles at the exact same point.

I've given up on this video. No matter what i do there will be complaints. First the face is too static and that the original emperors face is more emotive, then i add the smile at the same point as the original Emperors smile and some motion to the face, then the face needs to remain more emotionless.

So that's it. No more videos. I'm spending so much time going back over videos i have posted trying to please everyone that i'm wasting time that could be spend on other scenes. When i get to the point that i'm pleased with a shot, i should stop there. I'm never going to please everyone and things just then get bogged down. 

I'm pretty sure that some people thing i can perform impossible things. You have to remember that i can only work with what i have available with  existing footage, etc. The only way i could do the emperor any better now would be to pay Ian to reprise his role in this scene and get him to wear a prosthetic that matches his ROTJ one. But we all know that this is never going to happen.

And AMEN Ady.

As the artist on this project, you are never going to please everyone, and sometimes no one at all.  I've had to learn that myself.

Design by committee is the easiest way to insanity.  Best to avoid such a thing altogether.

It is best to do as you see fit, and as you please.  You have already given most of us every confidence that your vision and meticulous attention to detail in making this trilogy what it should have been in the SE, is in the best hands possible; a true fan with talent to accomplish his vision.

Seek counsel only among those who you trust in opinion.  Let the rest of us wait patiently for the final result, which given ANH-R and what we've seen thusfar with ESB-R is beyond our own wildest imaginations of excellence.

Monroville said:

adywan said:

Bravo Zulu said:

Adywan,

Will you be doing anything with the AT-AT stop-motion to make it look not-so "stop motion"?

 

no. The stop motion of the AT-AT's has always worked perfectly for me. It gives them a more mechanical feel. The versions we see in the PT just look so fake and too fluid

Will you be adding any sort of subtle "bass" sound FX to the footfalls (especially in the mid shots and close shots)?  Also, I think what Bravo may be referring to is the "jerkiness" of most stop-motion effects.  I can understand keeping the stated "foot hits down, stays for a moment, then picks up again" as opposed to something too fluid for a machine (especially one that weighs a few 100 tons), but will you slightly tweak them in the case of the stop-motion being a bit jerky in the mid movements of the models? 

Even in the case of something lumbering, taking specific steps (such as the foot hitting the ground and then waiting a beat before the foot picks up again, to emphasize the weight of the object), there is going to be some motion blur.  It has been a while since I've seen the AT-AT attack scene, so I can't say if it is real noticeable.

I guess it is akin to the Space Slug scene; nothing major but even a slight bit of tweaking may improve the effectiveness of a scene.

Aside from the color and levels correction (which looks already done) ; the transparency problems (looks already fixed); the enhanced laserbolts (looking awesomely great); additional tweaks and surprises we have yet to see; and Adywans statement that he is going to recapture the theatrical richness and bass of the sound of the battle - the AT-AT movements are perfect the way they have always looked in my opinion.

steb74 said:

INVAR - Those points you make about the movie are very important indeed and I've also followed those since day one and been fascinated by them.

The opening crawl, Vader and Emperor's communication and finally Luke and Vader's confrontation are for me the three most important parts in what the the psychologically inside the story is all about.

They also play a huge role in the development and understanding of Vader's character arc.

I must admit though, the line "The young rebel who destroyed the Death Star" is pretty bad, for me at least.

I feel as though the original dialogue is all that is needed, so I'll be very happy indeed if no change is made there.

Nice to read your thoughts on all that though :)

I actually think the line "The young rebel who destroyed the Death Star" is a great addition, as logically Emp would want to convey to Vader the significance of the danger Luke posed to them.  

From Emp's P.O.V. if he was informing Vader of his sense of the future - Emp's arrogance may be that Vader had no concrete info about Luke and he was letting Vader know how dangerous Luke has already been to their Empire.

Emp suggesting Luke could destroy them was immediately rebutted by Vader reassuring Emp that Luke was just a boy - and that he had no more help in the Jedi training department.  Vader may have been trying to avoid an order to destroy Luke before Vader could convince Emp to try and convert him to the Dark Side.

"We have a new enemy.  The young rebel who destroyed the Death Star, Luke Skywalker".

"Yes my master."

"He could destroy us."

"He is just a boy, Obi-Wan can no longer help him".

The original dialogue works fine also - I just think that one line addition adds some depth to the reason WHY Emp considers Luke to be a danger to them both.  The boy destroyed the Death Star, and - Emp may have wanted to make that point clear of who this new enemy was before mentioning his name.