Harmy

Looking at DrM's screenshots, I must say I think that there is very very little difference and the original GOUT shots actually look slightly better to me than the tweaked ones. In the tweaked shots everyone looks like they're ill.

Sure, PM sent :-)

Didn't I just say that? :-)

I totally prefer DJ's settings here but it would be nice to see it compared to the original GOUT colours. And btw. from these shots V3 looks amazing in terms of picture quality, can't wait for this to be released :-)

rockin said:

Bloody hell Harmy!! That ROTJ theatrical reconstruction .mkv is the best version of ROTJ I have seen in years. Everything seemed spot on! Your colour correcting, adding in the old effects and using hairy_hen's 5.1 mix really brought the whole thing to life.

I am so pleased you have done this. All the other versions I have watched that are available, just don't match it in terms of preserving the ROTJ theatrical cut - either because of picture and sound quality degrading due to being laserdisc/vhs versions or the crappy GOUT transfer. Thanks so much!

 

Thank you, I'm happy that you liked it :-)

I haven't downloaded the ROTJ PDE one yet. If that is anything like what I've just seen with the ROTJ theatrical reconstruction then I am in for a treat!

ROTJ PDE 1080p is very much like this reconstruction, (I used the PDE as the main video source for the reconstruction) it has the same colours and most of the same original shots are back, only a few of the less obvious changes are left in, namely the Rancor is the 2004 SE version, the SE sail barge recomposites are left in, the unmasking scene is the SE version and the ending celebration is re-cut using the HD fotage only (except of course the ghosts) to be as close as possible to the original but not using the GOUT.

Are you going to do a Star Wars one like the ROTJ theatrical reconstruction? If you are, then I think you should do your own colour correction for that based off the 2004 HDTV broadcasts as you seem to have a good eye for it and it would keep it seperate from Ady's work. Plus, working with the main HDTV source file, you will retain more picture quality, rather than working with Ady's AVCHD colour corrected version (no offence Ady!).

I don't think I will do STAR WARS because Ady said that he'll be doing a DVD reconstruction and frankly, I'm sure he's bound to do a better job than me and the colour correction is likely to be different from his AVCHD. He also said he's working on ways to use the least possible amount of GOUT shots there. I don't know what he has in mind but I'm sure it will be awesome.

If anything, I'll be waiting for DJ's anamorphicised (and more importantly stabilized) GOUT V3 and then using that to make ROTJ PDE v2.0 with more SE removed, because I don't know how to get rid of the telecine shake in GOUT and it makes it impossible to make convincing composites.

Sure, no problem, PM sent :-)

PM sent

Is there a flying car in that picture?

Yeah, pretty much, there's still some SE stuff left, like two or three digital animals in SW and some of the windows in cloud city and some other minor details, but most of the SE is gone. All 3 are colour corrected. For each film, the whole cut was conformed to be in sync with the soundmixes of the original versions.

Here are videos showing the changes in SW and TESB, what isn't in the videos is kept the same as SE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ2BKnqVcyI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SquVsUORlTo

and here's what's changed in Jedi:

Lapti Nek, the original Sarlacc pit scene and the ending celebration (including the Anakin ghost) were restored very close to the original version.

Some videos can be found in the first post.

First of all, thanks and second of all, is that a request for the links or do you already have them? Sorry but I honestly can't remember everyone I sent links to :-)

@ Sluggo: PM sent

PM sent

I think that's just a matter of the 2004 colouring of the whole scene, not a recolouring of the hologram itself, when you look at it, it is quite apparent, that the original shot has an over-all blue cast, whereas the 2004 shot has an over-all red cast, so if the scan-lines are different in the 97SE, I think it's pretty safe to assume it's a 97 change regardless of the colour of the hologram.

none said:

Here's some possible changes from RotJ:

Captures are full res from the WG HD Splits, so not embedded since it would take a while to load.  Times are approximate from again the WG timecode not the movie.

The first shot of 3po and R2, seems like sky replacement.  The next shot in the sequence is significantly bluer in the 83 version.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7591/swchangesrotj000000.jpg

 

09:21 - you all mentioned the Emperor Hologram in ESB, Luke in RotJ might have a similar issue.  The horizontal bars look like they are there in the shirt but the face ones have been obliterated.  09:32, Luke's belt. 09:59

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7420/swchangesrotj000921.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9687/swchangesrotj000932.jpg

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9965/swchangesrotj000959.jpg

 

10:28 - The pan from Jabba to Han carbonite has been maniuplated:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3553/swchangesrotj001028.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/791/swchangesrotj001028a.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/996/swchangesrotj001028b.jpg

 

45:24 - does it look like Yoda begins to fade a few frames later?  or is it just the colors throwing me off.

 

Oh and I forgot to welcome you, so welcome and stick around :-)

And I recommend you check out the threads I list in this post.

Yeah, I totally LOLed, great username.

Anyway, Admiral Snackbar, (ha ha, it's even fun to write) you're in luck, because I just finished uploading the v1.2 of Jedi with much better sound. PM sent.

PS. Just making sure you know, these are not fully restored originals, more like hybrid versions but they do remove the IMO most offensive changes and are colour corrected.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in Jedi v1.2, here are the specs:

RETURN OF THE JEDI - PARTLY DESPECIALIZED EDITION 1080p AVCHD v1.2

VIDEO: 

Resolution: 1920x1080p 

Codec: AVC 

Frame rate: 23,976 fps 

Bit rate: 6795Kbps

AUDIO:

1) 5.1 EN 448Kbps

2) 5.1 EN 448Kbps

3) 2.0 EN 384Kbps

4) 2.0 CZ 256Kbps

SOURCES:

Video:

HDTV (1080p broadcast of the 2004 version)

DVBt (anamorpic PAL broadcast of the 1997 version)

DVD (2006 nonanamorphic DVD of the 1983 original version)

Sound:

1) hairy_hen's 5.1 custom mix based on the 1993 mix, with the Special Edition LFE chanel added, and deleted music restored to the Obi-Wan scene

2) hairy_hen's 5.1 purist mix based on the 1993 mix, with the Special Edition LFE chanel added, but without the restored music

3) Belbucus' 2.0 1993 LaserDisc PCM capture

4) Harmy's 2.0 1992 Czech VHS dubbing capture

What has changed:

The whole cut was conformed to be in sync with the soundmixes of the original 1980 version.

Over-all basic colour correction was done with special care to restore the original look of the lightsabres.

Lapti Nek, the original Sarlacc pit scene and the ending celebration (including the Anakin ghost) were restored very close to the original version.

When burned to a DVD9, this should play in PS3 and most Blu-Ray players.

That sucks, I'm sorry to hear this.

Great, thanks. It's true that the images are cropped (they are all originaly 2.35:1) but they will serve the purpose of the menu better than the low-res ones.

Doctor M said:

IIRC, the problem with DVD calibrations such as the THX Optimode is the method involved.

The Optimode calibration video/audio is intended to go through the same processing as the movie itself.  As a result the Optimode for a given DVD is so you can calibrate your home theater so it is accurate for that DVD only.  It is not an absolute calibration for accuracy.

(At least this is what I remember reading way back when.  I hope they've changed that.)

That's nice and all, but that's the joke, isn't it? I calibrated my TV based on the THX optimode from the 2004 TESB disc and the colours of the film on the very same disc still looked like sh*t.

The  Flunk 97SE ESB XviD screenshots none posted seemed a little weird to me, so I checked out my 97SE, which is an xvid sourced from a German Digi TV broadcast to which someone added a Czech dubbing (I just randomly found on the web, so I have no idea where this comes from). Anyway, the colours are quite a bit better here and also, this LD transfer apparently cannot be trusted, because when you compare the first shot (the upper shots are none's LD shots and the lower shots are the Digi broadcast) you can tell that the LD cap is two interpolated consequential frames (look at the flash but also at Vader's helmet) - this is probably due to an incorrect de-interlacing or pulldown removal in the LD transfer.

This is also interesting. It seems that the digital broadcasts used different transfer than the SE LDs as there is some dirt present in the DTV frame, that is not there in the LD - although maybe they are the same scans but the LDs just had more DVNR applied for their masters.

doubleofive said:

We have 4 different instances of lightsabers in ESB:

Luke vs Wampa
Han vs Taun Taun
Luke vs Fake Vader
Luke vs Vader, in 4 or 5 sections

There's also the shot where Luke cuts through the belly of the ATAT.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris at HTF:

Those who reject the Star Wars package, for its presumed lack of the original productions are not alone.  Personally, I find both versions of interest in their own rights, with the original taking great precedence, for a myriad of reasons.

 

They are the original, now classic films, as released starting in 1977.  They have incredible technological relevance, especially in terms of their use (also with CE3K) of the Dolby process, and Dolby's pioneering CP50 and SVA printed optical soundtracks on 35mm film.

 

But, for me, beyond the changes in effects and storyline, the veritable 800 pound gorilla is what the films and their filmmakers proved, especially in that 1977 original.  And that was that a filmmaker with a certain brilliance toward technology, production techniques, and story could work in a pre-digital world, and on an extremely limited budget, noted on iMDB as only thirteen million dollars, and create an extraordinary masterwork using every trick in the book, and some new ones, to create one of the most beloved and highly regarded films ever to hit the silver sheet.  It is precisely those occasional garbage mattes, layer upon layer of composited effects, beautifully manufactured sound, and yes, what appear to be occasional cardboard cut-outs, that prove how, within that limited budget, an extraordinary film could be created, by a master filmmaker.

 

In that sense, when those in this thread communicate on line regarding their feelings toward Mr. Lucas, please keep in mind, that behind the corporate structure is the extraordinary technical showman who created what this discussion is about in the first place.  My personal respect for him, and his work goes all the way back to those budget-saving measures used in creating that original masterpiece.  It is for that reason, that I believe the original films should be available on Blu-ray in their highest possible visual and aural states -- to show those who never had the opportunity to see these films in their original 70mm blow-ups, what real filmmaking on an epic level is all about.  It is for that reason, that I believe a nine film set is in order.

 

As to what is being posted, I would suggest that personal gibes be restrained, and that if there is a desire to communicate one's feelings, that it be done in a respectful manner.

 

RAH

I will consider it, if there's enough space left on the DVD but if you want, I can post the whole collection somewhere, I found them all on the internet but it was quite an undertaking to select the best quality ones and I still have some of them in low-res only. 

Funnily enough, there is a monitor calibration guide on the 2004 DVDs. You can find it in the upper left corner of the language setup menu.

I calibrated my TV according to the guide provided on the DVDs themselves (in other words what should be perfect settings for the correct presentation of the discs) and the colours still look like sh*t.

Well, I'm not gonna say just yet. But I must say that even with the knowledge of which is which, I wasn't able to tell the difference at all.

Done

BTW. hairy_hen, an MKV version of the ROTJ Reconstruction is out now containing your new "purist" sound mix, so you can check it out if you like.