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Go-Mer-Tonic

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13-Sep-2006
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28-Mar-2007
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Post
#252596
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252596/action/topic#252596
Time
No I was saying most people will figure it out on their own.

I think that it's pretty self evident that the Jedi religion revolves around the Force, and even if people don't realize that it's the Force that gives the Jedi their special abilities, they will at least understand that it somehow guides Jedi as to it's will through the Midichlorians.
Post
#252539
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252539/action/topic#252539
Time
I may not know all that for sure, but it does fit with what the movies show, and that does support the idea that Lucas has been consistent about the Force all along.

It's really up to each and every one of us wether or not we choose to see it that way.

To me the very fact that the way I am looking at it remains consistent from ANH-ROTS is why I say that's more likely than the ways to look at it that render all of this stuff contradictions.

Again, the Midichlorian concept includes all life forms, the Jedi concept from the classic trilogy is more suggestive of genetic supermen because Force potential was explained as a hereditary phenomenon, not something available to all life forms.
Post
#252493
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252493/action/topic#252493
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1
Lucas hasn't changed, he has always been very stubborn about his vision. It's what motivated him to tell Hollywood to go screw itself and make his own Hollywood. Yes he has. Quit jizzing all over your Lucas shrine. It's great that he told Hollywood off, but it's now working against him. He's so wrapped up in doing it his way that he doens't realize he's lost his way. It's working fine for him, the only ones who he is "working against" are the people who don't like what he's doing.
Originally posted by: Cable-X1
I have been answering you, you just think I'm full of shit. It's a sublte difference. No, you haven't. You know it's unpopular here to say your dumb shit, yet you keep doing. I question why you do it and you give some bullshit that you "care" about all SW fans. Why don't you just get the hell out of here and fuck fuck Lucas in the ass since you love him so much? Mostly because of the restraining order. Seriously, wake me up when you graduate to "Why don't you marry Lucas" zingers.Originally posted by: Cable-X1I come here talking about the things I love about Lucas and the SE's and the Prequels, in the off chance it makes any of you feel better about them. I am certainly under no delusions that I can work miracles, but at least I will feel I have given it a shot.
It doesn't make anyone here feel better. We don't care how much you love the prequels. You aren't going to change any minds here.
It's still worth a shot to me.Originally posted by: Cable-X1I really would like to see all Star Wars fans as happy as they can be, which is why I am all for getting the O-OT released in as good a quality as the newer editions.
No, you don't. You're here just to start shit. You've done it on other threads and on other boards.
Yes I do. I realize that some of you have anger management issues, but that's no reason to give up on the more reasonable people here who actually don't mind considering other points of view.
Post
#252483
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252483/action/topic#252483
Time
And you sound like you're full of sunshine and happiness.

Lucas hasn't changed, he has always been very stubborn about his vision. It's what motivated him to tell Hollywood to go screw itself and make his own Hollywood.

I have been answering you, you just think I'm full of shit. It's a sublte difference.

I come here talking about the things I love about Lucas and the SE's and the Prequels, in the off chance it makes any of you feel better about them. I am certainly under no delusions that I can work miracles, but at least I will feel I have given it a shot.

I really would like to see all Star Wars fans as happy as they can be, which is why I am all for getting the O-OT released in as good a quality as the newer editions.
Post
#252477
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252477/action/topic#252477
Time
Originally posted by: Nanner Split
If Lucas were to keep up the O-OT in the same quality he is keeping his updated versions, then wouldn't you guys be all good with whatever he wanted to do with his updated versions?


If you'd just listened to what we said, you would've read that that's really all we want. Just for him to treat the OT versions with the same respect as the FUOT (Fucked-Up Original Trilogy). If he'd just release both versions in the highest possible quality, half the threads in this section wouldn't even be here.

Although really, the FUOT dvds aren't exactly a benchmark of quality either. They've got plenty of technical issues of their own.
I have been listening, which is why I asked that to be sure. I was just saying that's the real issue here. All this other crap about how Lucas sucks on every other level is really unrelated to the desires most have here. I think the negativity overkill is only going to serve to allow Lucas to sit back and say: "Screw those negative bastards, they can make their own O-OT anamorphic transfer if it's so important to them."

Respect is a two way street, and you can't even begin to say Lucas is worse. All he did was refuse to re-release an older cut of one of his moives. Whenever he has talked about the fans who don't like things he does, he always talks about us with respect. Talking about how imaginative we are and how much we like to think outside of the box. He compliments our difference of opinion and just adds: but it's my movie so I get to say how it goes.

To me he's taking the higher road than a lot of us are.
Post
#252474
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252474/action/topic#252474
Time
Wait a minute, Qui-Gon talks about how they speak to you, and tell you the will of the Force, but that's just the way he's looking at it.
It would be the same thing as if he said your ears speak to you, and tell you what sounds are happening around you.

There isn't one example in the saga of a midichlorian's sentience on it's own. In fact, the supposition Qui-Gon has that Anakin was created by the Midichlorians is questioned by the idea that Plaguis and or Palpatine may have in fact caused Anakin to be.

Also, the Force in the classic trilogy is everywhere, just as it is in the prequels. What's happening is the Jedi noticed a co-relation between powerful force users and higher midichlorian counts. They know not everyone who tries to become a Jedi succeeds, so they started hand picking candidates based on their Midi-Count. Obviously they also decided that attatchment was a bad thing, which is just another reason why they would want to pick their candidates so close to birth that their propensity to use the Force wouldn't be self evident.

I think I mentioned this before, but in the ANH novelization, Obi-Wan tells Luke about how the Republic tried to define the Force with science, but that they never quite could. That perhaps there is just as much magic as science in the Force.

To me the further layers only underscore how the Force had already been portrayed up until this point.

Also, I don't know how you could say they Force was only vaguely hereditary in the classic trilogy. If it wasn't -very- hereditary, then the Jedi couldn't have been all but wiped out. Force users would be popping up naturally out of the population like a sick game of whack a mole for the Emperor. And the only reason they gave for Luke and Leia being strong in the Force was due to their lineage.

The Force is still everywhere, it's just living beings have Midichlorians that allow them to commune with "the Force". Wether the Force itself has a will in the first place is a point of view. Obviously Qui-Gon sees the Force as having a will, and he feels that when he quiets his mind, the Force will show him what it wants him to do through the Midichlorians, but it's still his interpreation just as we might take a coincidental happenstance as "divine direction" of some kind here on Earth.

I hear some of you saying "nothing is sacred" to Lucas, but I don't see how he has changed anything about what has come before.

Not one little bit.

Midichlorians do not explain the fantastic abilities Jedi can call upon, it merely adds another layer to the mystery of the Force. I think it's much more well rounded to present both the mystical and the scientific side to the Star Wars universe. So many people seem to treat science and religion as 2 separate things that contradict each other, I personally see them as 2 separate approaches to the mysteries of life that co-exist without contradiction. Religion and Science both present theories that guess at the mysteries of life, the only difference is science is the attempt to figure out more about the secrets of life through tangible tests that can be verified, while religion attempts to understand the secrets of life through "what sounds best" or "belief" without proof.
Post
#252420
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252420/action/topic#252420
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
So...then...only microscopic bacteria can communicate with the force for Jedi? Sorry, but Wesyeed is right if you ask me. No, Midichlorians are what allows life to exist in the first place. The Jedi communicate with the force through them in the same way they hear sounds with their ears.Also, I don't know who these religious groups are that you speak of, but they sound lame. Mitochondria do not explain God in any way. Unfortunately, Lucas has made sure that Midichlorians explain too much about the force in terms of the Star Wars universe. People like Weyseed are not the ones removing the mystery of the force with this concept, George Lucas already confirmed the way in whch they remove much of the mystery for us. Are living beings "luminous," like Yoda said, or do they simply carry varrying amounts of hereditary bacteria?
Why can't they be both? It's not like the Force wasn't hereditary in the classic trilogy. I figure with the Midichlorians, we have a solid basis to say it's about all life, not just the Skywalkers.

I didn't realize I repeated this in this thread, but people keep bringing up the same misconceptions about them.
Post
#252390
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252390/action/topic#252390
Time
Midichlorians are loosely based on Mitochondria, which are a real organism that lives inside every cell of every being here on Earth.

When scientists first discovered them, some of them theorized that they could hold the secret to the origin of life itself. They speculated that it was these mitochondria that came along to co-exist with single celled organisms which allowed them to grow into multi-celled organisms.

A lot of religious groups felt that we shouldn't even be studying about mitochondria, because they could serve to "explain" God. Just as a lot of us accused the Midichlorian concept of "explaining" the Force.

The truth is they do no such thing. As a lot of you pointed out, they only add more questions to the ones we already had.

I really like the way Midichlorians brings this whole concept into the minds of children, who may become more curious about some of these studies, and may end up coming to a better understanding than the generation before them.

Adults are more likely to have developed firm beliefs about religion or science in general, whereas children are more likely to question established beliefs.
Post
#252354
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252354/action/topic#252354
Time
Wow, I didn't know about the german audio issue. I agree about the current DVD's available. The 2004 SE has audio issues I would like to see fixes as well.

I think the thing is, he was going to wait until he could get everything just right, but the combination of us begging him to do it sooner than later, and his advisors telling him there might not be a DVD market by the time he was ready led to the 2004 release.

I think that this box set next year, assuming it's his archival version and not another stop gap (which who knows at this point) will have everything tweaked out properly. It's just a guess on my part, but I too have noticed the level of "good enough" going on not only with the 2004 DVD release, but with the prequels as well.

Many of you probably know about how John Williams scored his music for the prequels before Lucas was done editing them. As a result much of his music was re-cut (not always with the smoothest of edits) and in AOTC and ROTS, there are actually music tracks lifted from previous films. I get the impression that Lucas figured, screw it I don't have time now to have Williams re-do this, but I'll have him smooth everything out once I'm more finished.

This is all speculation on my part, but would you guys be happy if the 30th anneversary box set aleviated all of our concerns?

I keep hoping that next year is the year we can repair the rift in our fandom.
Post
#252346
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252346/action/topic#252346
Time
If Lucas were to keep up the O-OT in the same quality he is keeping his updated versions, then wouldn't you guys be all good with whatever he wanted to do with his updated versions?

That's what I would like to see happen. I'd like to see all of us be able to enjoy however much of Star Wars we like, without all the negativity.

I'd really like to see all of the SW fans back together again.

It's just before this rift, all SW fans were pretty much on the same page. We all had our different opinions, but basically we all respected each other as SW fans.

Now there is this huge rift, some have drawn lines in the ground like in one of those bad sitcoms where 2 people have to share the same room but can't stand each other. We painted a line down the middle and call one side the basher side, and the other the gusher side.

I'd just like to get us all back to a point where it's just a bunch of Star Wars fans with diverse tastes.