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Go-Mer-Tonic

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13-Sep-2006
Last activity
28-Mar-2007
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928

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Post
#253402
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253402/action/topic#253402
Time
I was at Celebration II, and at the Rick McCallum spectacular, someone asked him if the rumors were true about inserting the Imperial March into ANH, and he gave one of those non confirmations that went something like: "I can't talk about that, but you are very very good."

I don't know, if anyone would re-score a movie 30 years after it was first released, it would be Lucas.

I have also seen interviews from Williams where he expressed disatisfaction with the way his music had been re-cut after the fact.

Maybe they would only re-score the post edited stuff and leave most of it in tact.
Post
#253390
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253390/action/topic#253390
Time
I did not realize it makes the music out of sync. I'll have to compare when I get home. Will the bonus disc be good enough, or do I need to drag out my laserdiscs?

I have noticed a lot of issues with the sound on the 2004 SE version. The new additions have musical edits that aren't always very smooth.

Also with all of the prequels, the music was scored before Lucas was done editing them, so there was a lot of patchy editing going on there too, with AOTC and ROTS both re-using music from previous episodes, something that had never been done up until those 2 films.

I am thinking that Lucas is going to re-score the films with Williams once he's settled on a final cut.

I know it's not "final" until Lucas can't change it anymore, but I think Lucas is trying to reach the finish goal.
Post
#253334
Topic
Lego Star Wars II
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253334/action/topic#253334
Time
I haven't played the DS or Advance versions of the game, but they are entirely different from the console versions. With the DS version employing a far less powerful 3D engine, and the Advance version using an isometric perspective to decent effect (from what people are saying).

But I did just recently get the PSP version and I have to say it is just about as good as the console versions. The only thing that really detracts from it is the loading time is actually noticeable between areas sometimes, but it's still not obnoxious or anything.

Since there was no Lego 1 for PSP, they have 3 doors in the "Jabba" room, one for each prequel, and they let you play the boss battles from the first game. Door one is Darth Maul, door two is DooKu, and door 3 is Darth Vader.

Also each level from the main portion of the game now has a new play option "challenge" mode where you have to find 10 blue minikits within a certain amount of time. Doing so will give you yet another brick and I think some of them unlock more characters from the prequels.

I almost played all the way through on X-Box (I have like 80% or something) but I am really enjoying playing it again on the go.
Post
#253198
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253198/action/topic#253198
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Ugh - Go-Mer - you've gone too far ... even for you.

Presented with direct evidence that Lucas is lying about the title for Star Wars (yes, the fact that "A New Hope" NEVER appeared on ANYTHING prior to the release of the movie is very good evidence) ... you just come out with even more ridiculous bullshit about your hero-god.


I have tried my best to defend your right to offer up contrary opinions, even when you do so in the most annoying, every-other-post manner.


But now I must join the growing chorus who can only chant "Fuck Off" and "Go Away.".
I am sorry but you still haven't explained how the lack of "A NEW HOPE" on that other stuff proves he is lying. Sure if it had A New Hope written on that stuff it would have bolstered his claim, but the lack of it certainly doesn't disprove it.

You guys have it all worked out that Lucas is a pathological liar, but all you guys have is circumstantial evidence (unless I somehow didn't see the direct evidence that was posted). That may be enough for you, but I need proof to accuse someone of lying.

Post
#253155
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253155/action/topic#253155
Time
Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
Bantha Tracks Spring 1980:

"SW: At one point there were going to be twelve Star Wars films.

GL: I cut that number down to nine because the other three were tangential to the saga. Star Wars was the fourth story in the saga and was to have been called Star Wars: Episode Four A New Hope. But I decided people wouldn't understand the numbering system so we dropped it. For Empire, though, we're putting back the number and will call it Episode Five: The Empire Strikes Back. After the third film in this trilogy we'll go back and make the first trilogy, which deals with the young Ben Kenobi and the young Darth Vader.

SW: What is the third trilogy about?

GL: It deals with the character that survives Star Wars III and his adventures."

More recently, Gary Kurtz also said there were 9 planned. George should just say "look, the story was already getting thin by Jedi, so I gave up on the 3rd trilogy". Okay but when he says that it was all a media myth that he had 9 movies planned out, couldn't he be talking about how many movies he ended up coming up with material for? From what I understand the 9 movie concept would have included the Emperor surviving, and Luke and Anakin teaming up to finally vanquish him. If he took that idea and condensed it into the finaly of ROTJ, then in truth that was all the story he had come up with right?
Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
To my knowledge, the only studio interference was the removal of "Episode IV A New Hope" in the opening crawl.

Another of his lies.

If the studio made him remove the title, post-production - why was it written out and referred to as The Star Wars during shooting and on pre-production documentation and early one-sheet artwork? Even reproductions of the early scripts published and printed as recently as the mid-90s had only these titles - "The Adventures of Luke Starkiller", "Journal of the Whills", and "The Star Wars".

The phrase A New Hope came into existence a few years after Star Wars was released, after a sequel was planned - not prior to the original release and then vetoed by studio execs.
Why would that have had to have been on the shooting and pre-production doccumentation for Lucas to have wanted to do that? Again it's an assumption on your part that he's lying simply because some documents don't happen to support it. They certainly don't disprove what he's saying.
Post
#253137
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253137/action/topic#253137
Time
Can any of you prove he's lying?

He has only ever said that what he originaly wrote for ANH was way to big to make into one movie, so he took part of it and made it into ANH, and then re-used a lot of his other ideas in the subsequent films. His vision was to make a serial story in 6-9 parts. He didn't have it all fleshed out, but he had ideas for what kinds of things he wanted to touch on in the movies, and then he fleshed each episode out as he made them. He was working with a rough outline of what happened before ANH, and as he finished the classic trilogy he filled in most of the blanks that were logically carried over into the prequel story.

Lucas says that originally Vader and Anakin were different people, although Anakin's was always going to be a story of a fallen hero. It's just originaly this fall from grace got him killed at the hands of Darth Vader, but then Lucas decided to take that further and have him -become- Vader. I personaly think this was the right way to go. Lucas talks about how he was always thinking of themes of redemption and of fathers and sons, and of brothers and sisters. That doesn't mean he knew going into ANH that Leia would be Luke's sister, it's just that's a theme he had touched on in previous revisions of what finally became Star Wars.

Also he has always been up front about how he hadn't decided to make Luke and Leia related until sometime during the post production of ESB.

The magazine interview from the 70's I assume you are talking about involve the idea that Lucas could make 9 or even 12 films out of the story if he wanted to. Lucas isn't denying talking about that, he's just saying that he never did come up with material for more than 6 movies. He just said he -could- possibly do 9 or 12.

I don't see any reason why he should regret telling the full story.

You guys are so far down the assumption of "history" path, you guys act like you can prove he's lying.
Post
#253130
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253130/action/topic#253130
Time
If he had enough time and money, he would have eventually employed CG techniques. We don't even have to guess at this, because that's what -did- happen afer enough time went by, he spent even more money to make that happen.

Lucas was pioneering the effects he used back then, his use of cutting edge effects today is no different.

He isn't stomping over Dykstra's work, he's merely enhancing his work. In fact, most of the spaceships we see in the preqels are done with models and motion control cameras right up to ROTS.

CG is just one more tool in his arsenal. Was it stomping all over the work of the optical compopsiters when he re composited the same elements digitally to remove the dark outline and transparancy effects they employed?
Post
#253082
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253082/action/topic#253082
Time
I can see how you would be able to draw that conclusion from ANH alone, but from there on it's all about how Luke and Leia were strong in the Force because of their lineage.

Also, it's not that Luke and Leia inhereted Anakin's midichlorians, because all life has midichlorians. They inhereted Anakin's higher concentration of them.

I think a lot of people mistake the midichlorians as what makes the Force or that they -are- the Force. They are just a component of all living cells. It's just they happen to be the antennae through which all life is connected to the Force. The higher the concentration, the better a life form's "reception" of the Force, or so the best scientists believe.

It's just something that Old Republic science noticed about Force adepts, and the Jedi now use it to pre-select their hopefuls.
Post
#253036
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253036/action/topic#253036
Time
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
How can he say that the version he released into theaters, that so many people spent so much blood and sweat on is half finished? How can he say that a version with added CGI and Jabba is 50 percent more finished then the original? How? How? It baffles me. I hope George Lucas gets hit by a car one of these days, because he deserves it. So many people spent so much time and effort on these films, and then he says the originals were crap. I can't believe any of the relationships with people he had while making the OT still exist.

And any real filmmaker never calls the version they release to the public half finished. Did Peter Jackson say the LOTR theatricals were only half finished, because they didn't last 4 hours? No, he didn't. Do modern teen-movie creators call the theatricals unfinished because the unrated had more boobs? No, they don't. Lucas can rot in hell.
He had to release it to theaters before he would have liked to. Back then, it didn't have the Jabba scene (one he actually filmed back then) now it does. Hence, it's more complete than it was before he put that scene in.

When would you have liked to have George hit by a car exactly? Should it have been right after he released ROTJ? After he released ANH?

Or before he even had the idea to make Star Wars in the first place?
Post
#252977
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252977/action/topic#252977
Time
Lucas says he always meant for it to be hereditary to some extent, otherwise it wouldn't have mattered who Luke's father was from the get go. The dynamic that Luke was special because of who his father was is evident even in ANH. Otherwise how could the Jedi be made all but extinct?

The Sith had been in super secret hiding for generations. Of course they would be able to get around having a sith candidate tested. Even if they didn't create a baby of their own, they would have no problem stealing a baby before he was tested or even after he had been tested.

From what I understand, Maul was raised from near birth as a Sith.
Post
#252946
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252946/action/topic#252946
Time
It still is dependant on your commitment to learn. That's why they do Midi tests in the first place, because they are trying to test beings before they would even have half a chance to understand and use the Force.

Now, with the Midichlorian concept all beings have an innate ability, not just Jedi.

So if anything, Midichlorians upholds what you would like the Force concept to be, whereas without them, you had to be related to someone strong in the Force.

As far as how Palpy avoided the Midi Test, he is a Sith Lord in hiding. Sith wouldn't be taking their babies in for Republic testing, because that would give them away as Force sensitives.
Post
#252845
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252845/action/topic#252845
Time
The Jedi are not supposed to become emotionally attatched even to offspring. Most of the problem with Anakin's situation is he is actually attactched to her emotionally. It's just part of the dogma they have built up over the years.

It is still hereditary, but everyone has them to a certain extent. It's not like some living things aren't connected to the force.

Jedi are no more different from others who don't have as high a midi count than tall people are from people who are short.

Post
#252830
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252830/action/topic#252830
Time
Yes, Qui-Gon says Midichlorians reside in all living cells, and that without them life could not exist.

The Jedi are fundamentally against forming personal attatchments, but they do bear children here and there. Ki Adi Mundi for example has several children with several wives on his home planet, because there is such a low % of men compared to women and everyone has to "do their part" so to speak, or something like that. Also there is the idea that hereditary traits could skip a generation as well, resulting in a non Jedi candidate to bear a jedi candidate.

If anything, I think the Midichlorian concept serves to make the Force -less- hereditary. Before Luke was strong in the force simply because he was Anakin's son. Now it's more specifically, because he (like his father) had a strong predisposition to use the Force. Now with the Midichlorian concept, it's not that they are fundamentally different from the other beings in the galaxy, they just have an easier time tapping into the Force.
Post
#252816
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252816/action/topic#252816
Time
They may inherit the Mitochondria from the mother, but the concentration of mitochodria per cell could be another hereditary trait passed on by the father. Not that I would know a whole lot about it.

Yeah, you see Vader's return to the light coming in the same way we used to see it coming that Luke throws down his sword.

At least now, up until that very last second, we aren't so sure about Luke doing the right thing, and if he didn't, then it could all have ended up like the end of the prequels, sans any more hope.

I don't think Luke was operating on the condition that he thought Palpatine was defenseless. He throws down his saber knowing full well it could cost him his life, otherwise what's the point of having Luke do that? I can't imagine looking at that heroic act as being dependant on Luke thinking he could take the Emperor without a lightsaber, the point is that he will not fight them. So what if he -could- have blocked the lightning with a saber? He didn't have one on him because he chose to throw it down. That's the whole point here.

Also, Yoda is the only Jedi who manages to absorb force lighting. Chances are it's an advanced technique.

Post
#252678
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252678/action/topic#252678
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Hear you nothing that I say? If your motivations and actions are pure, then there is no conflict between universal and personal values. The two can work together perfectly and in that situation you would have no need to balance anything. It’s very simple and you should be able to follow what I’m saying here. Well yeah, -if- your motivations are pure. But how often is that going to be the case? Certainly not 100% of the time.
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Two sides of an ethical coin are often nice to consider, however that’s not what I was talking about. You were condemning Anakin for caring too much about his personal values, yet for you to propose that ethic is hypocritical when you consider the prequels as a whole. There are many times, in the prequels, when the Jedi cared for personal things. Therefore when they claim to reject personal desires and attachments, they are being obvious liars. (It almost makes me wonder if they were teasing Anakin with fake rules just to provoke him.) I’d love to see you argue for how the Jedi were being consistent on this issue, Go-Mer. I bet you would. No they weren't consistent, and your assessment is largely correct. They were lying to themselves as much as anyone else.

You see them talking about attachments being bad, and striving to "only think about others", but the reality is as Palpatine points out, they still operate in ways beneficial to themselves. To a viewer, that adds more uneasiness about everything. If the Jedi's virtues aren't as solid as they should be, then the Jedi are fooling themselves. They are more and more allowing the ends to justify the means.

Notice in the beginning of ROTS, the crawl talks about how there are heroes on both sides, and that evil is everywhere? Lucas talks about how the Jedi had become fundamentally corrupted in This E! Fluff piece (cue ahead to about 5:00 to skip most of the "3rd time's a charm" smoke blowing by the usual suspects).
[clip from ROTS]

Palpatne: Remember back to your early teachings? All who gain power are afraid to lose it. Even the Jedi.

Anakin: The Jedi use their power for good.

Palpatine: Good is a point of view Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar, in almost every way. Including their quest for greater power.

Anakin: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength, they think inward, only about themselves.

Palpatine: And the Jedi don't?

[cut to Lucas talking]

George Lucas: The Jedi are always fighting this reality that they're, in essence, diplomats. they sort of persuade people to do the right thing... but their job really isn't to go around fighting people, yet they are now used as generals, and they are fighting a war, and they are doing something they really weren't meant to do. They're being corrupted by this war. By being forced into being generals, instead of peace makers. I don't condemn Anakin for loving Padme, I don't condemn him for wanting to save her, I don't condemn him for wanting to bring his concept of "peace" to the galaxy. I condemn him for crossing the line to meet those goals. Where exactly did Anakin cross the line? Was it when he slaughtered a tribe of Tuskan Raiders that had kidnapped and tortured his mother to death? Was it when he killed DooKu after disarming him and having him under control? Was it when he disarmed Mace Windu to prevent him from illegally killing an unarmed prisoner? Was it when he pledged himself to Sidious' teachings? Certainly by the time he was slaughtering innocent younglings there was no question about it anymore. The line had been fully crossed.
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Let me try to explain my point once more: We all have personal motivations that could easily hurt other people or be unfair in a universal context if we blindly acted upon them. Yet we are rational creatures and can analyze our actions before we make them. Knowing that, we can then argue that it is always possible to act on our personal values in ways that are completely compatible with universal values. The evil or goodness of an action is thus not based upon “balancing” different perspectives, but upon analyzing cold, hard truths. I'm not sure I follow. You mean that in every case we have a personal desire, we can choose to either act on it or not depending on whether or not pursuing that desire would have a negative impact on universal values? If I have that right, then yeah I agree. But how often do people kid themselves in order to rationalize their way around things?
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Anyways, as a side note, your two-sided analogy there breaks down. The establishment is clearly evil in many ways the prequel trilogy. Even the supposedly virtuous Jedi are depicted as arrogant, overconfident, complacent, and compromised. Heh, the only good qualities within the establishment and the Jedi in particular are proven to be wholly incompetent over the course of the prequels. Well certainly they were not ideal. I consider the establishment's basis to be "good", in that I think democracy in essence is better than a dictatorship. But when democracies become corrupted (that should be the title for a Fox Reality show ) then what's the answer?. If you can't work things out through the system because the system itself is corrupted, then what?
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I agree that the "I am your father" is ruined for the audience, but I think it still works on a dramatic level to have the surprise be just for Luke. We see that Anakin is Vader in the prequels, then we see Ben flat out lying to Luke about Vader killing Anakin, so after Yoda and Obi-Wan beg Luke not to leave before he is trained because he's not ready and he leaves anyway, we get to that part where Vader tells him the truth and the audience then wonders... Crap, how is Luke going to take being lied to by Obi-Wan? Is he going to be able to still trust his teachings? Is he going to say screw Obi-Wan, he's no better than Vader as Anakin said about Palpatine vs. the Jedi? We don't find out until the next movie, which starts out with Luke dressed up like Evil Anakin in black robes, force choking Gammorean guards and telling Jabba not to underestimate his power. To me this whole dynamic ratchets up the tension quite a bit with the way it all flows now. First, those questions are absolutely needless in those scenes and only serve to distract from the story’s emotions. (What good are they to ask at those points?) The OT is not enhanced by those thoughts in any way as far as I can tell. At best, what happens in the OT only serves to enhance the PT. Second, you don’t need the PT to have the concern that Luke might go to the dark side. The OT sets that up sufficiently and beautifully. And besides, let’s be realistic here, there’s only so far that kind of suspense can go. Seriously, he’s the freakin’ hero of the story! Anyone who cannot invest faith in his goodness probably isn’t enjoying the movies in the first place. I never really worried about Luke turning to the dark side at all in the classic trilogy on it's own. Sure things got hairy, but like most movies I had seen, the hero pulls it out of his ass at the last moment. Of course Luke throws down his saber, of course Luke does the right thing. What isn't too common in most movies is the Hero actually falling as Anakin does. You put that before you show Luke's story, and suddenly nothing is as sure as you thought. The expectation going into the prequels is that Anakin will slip and slide his way through ambiguity, but do the right thing in the end. If you don't know ahead of time that he will just leap into the abyss, then that development is heart breaking. You root for him to pull his head out of his ass so long, and then he crosses that line. Originally posted by: Tiptup
Heh, so you agree with me that the line ("Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes.") was logically stupid, but you enjoy it because it then shows that Obi-Wan is evil too?
I don't think it makes him evil, it just highlights his self righteousness as a point of view.Originally posted by: Tiptup
Why shouldn’t he be the one to make everyone agree? Because he doesn’t mind murdering countless innocent children as a way to relieve his comparatively-trivial, emotional discomfort.
Exactly. That's obviously the case, but Anakin has had the issues clouded to the point where it's not so easy to see from his perspective. The Jedi's virtues are in question, Sidious is obviously evil, the Senate is obviously ineffective, does Anakin see what's right in the moment, or is he always looking away to the future, to the horizon? To him he sees a future where all this BS brought on by the Sith and the Jedi and the corrupted Senate would just be gone. He then rationalizes his horrific actions in the present as being justified by the end goal. Originally posted by: Tiptup
Sorry, but Anakin just isn’t likeable. Seriously, I’d love to hear your explanation as to why you think a psychopath is such a cool character, but instead you keep trying to justify his actions or make excuses for him and they just don’t work. His problems do not come close to justifying what he did.
I didn't say he was cool for being evil. I'm just saying that this story is a character study of how someone who is good can end up turning evil. It may not be likable, but it's a part of human nature that is worth considering.
Originally posted by: Tiptup Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Again nothing against the landmark surprise of "I am your father", no doubt that is one of the biggest surprises in cinema history.

But it is a very fleeting surprise.
Heh, if you can argue for that assessment without the slightest reservation, then I truly feel sorry for you. The Darth Vader revelation is awesome every single time for me. It has NEVER been “fleeting.” You just have to watch movies with a fresh mind and forget the context of scenes that are out of order. It makes for very enjoyable viewing. I never knew you were so feeble, Go-Mer.
To be fair, I did preface that with a statement about how substantial the "I am your father" revelation was. I just meant that once you know Vader is Luke's father, it's over. You spend every other time following that knowing that in the back of your head that's what he's going to tell Luke, and that it's true.

So if the scene is still amazing without it being a surprise for you, then what's the difference if it's that scene or the prequels that tips you off to that truth? Sure the first time we ever saw it, Bang Zoom fireworks, mouth agape, hands down the best surprise for an audience member in cinema history. I can certainly see why one would want to preserve that awesome dynamic for a first time viewer.

But I also think a lot of the reason so many of us were unimpressed with the prequels had to do with us largely knowing how it was all going to turn out in the end. Instead of being on the edge of our seat, a lot of us were rolling our eyes and thinking to ourselves: "Well get on with it already. We know that you're really Sidious Palpy, why even front like that? What's with the whining Anakin?, just start soullessly killing people" We get it, you were a nice kid once, but then you turn bad, that's what we want to see, that's why we are all here." Originally posted by: Tiptup
Interesting point, the PT did have its share of revelations, like any story, but, quite frankly, it’s almost impossible to be edge of your seat for those PT developments. From bad acting, to bad dialogue, to childish views of the world and absolutely evil motivations on the part of the heroes, there’s not much for normal people to care about. The Vader/Father revelation alone is of more value than all of those other points put together.
Obviously a lot of you here really don't like the PT at all, and would rather think of the OT on it's own. In that case, of course none of the prequels' surprises will matter to you as much as the classic trilogy's.

I'm just saying (as you even acknowledged) that the "I am your father" scene works even when you know the surprise going in. I hope you don't think I was putting the scene down, or trying to say the surprises in the prequels are all better than that. I'm just saying that when you do look at this as a 6 film saga, there is a whole lot more spoiled in the prequels by watching the classic trilogy first than there is for the classic trilogy when you see the prequels first. At least when you see the prequels first, the events all unfold in chronological order, so nothing is ever really pre-ordained by recollections of what ended up happening. The surprises that -are- ruined in the classic trilogy by watching the prequels first, are all one trick ponies for a first time viewer only. There is only going to be one time that someone is going to be surprised by Vader saying he's Luke's father, by suddenly realizing Yoda is Yoda, or by Luke piecing together that Leia is his sister. But after that, it's all known before hand anyway. As I mentioned before, I used to consider the development that Leia was Luke's sister to be a pretty convenient plot contrivance when it just came out of nowhere. Now that it is set up by the flat out showing of it at the end of ROTS, it doesn't seem quite so convenient, and even comes off as a well planned element to the story.Originally posted by: Tiptup
Secondly, what do you mean “one surprise”? You seriously believe the OT has only one surprise?! Sorry to dare contradicting your strong feeling on this matter, but ANH, ESB, and RotJ all have very large plot revelations that are completely ruined by the PT if you start with them as the intended context. I mean, wow, are you sure that you are even taking this conversation seriously, Go-Mer? Yikes.
I may not have considered them all, but so far I am thinking about "I am your Father", the fact that Leia is Luke's sister, that Yoda is really Yoda, and that Jabba really looks like Jabba. Have I missed some?
Post
#252607
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252607/action/topic#252607
Time
Again, I think TPM supposes that you don't need to know what Ben tells Luke in ANH to follow what's going on in TPM. When they finally get to ANH, they'll hear Ben and remember the previous movies and either go: "I knew it all a long ", or "No shit! ".

I agree that the "I am your father" is ruined for the audience, but I think it still works on a dramatic level to have the surprise be just for Luke. We see that Anakin is Vader in the prequels, then we see Ben flat out lying to Luke about Vader killing Anakin, so after Yoda and Obi-Wan beg Luke not to leave before he is trained because he's not ready and he leaves anyway, we get to that part where Vader tells him the truth and the audience then wonders... Crap, how is Luke going to take being lied to by Obi-Wan? Is he going to be able to still trust his teachings? Is he going to say screw Obi-Wan, he's no better than Vader as Anakin said about Palpatine vs the Jedi?

We don't find out until the next movie, which starts out with Luke dressed up like Evil Anakin in black robes, force choking gammorean guards and telling Jabba not to underestimate his power.

To me this whole dynamic ratchets up the tension quite a bit with the way it all flows now.

Again nothing against the landmark surprise of "I am your father", no doubt that is one of the biggest surprises in cinema history.

But is is a very fleeting surprise.

Now, to keep that surprise, you have to show a first time viewer the classic trilogy first. The problem with that is you lose most of the surprises in the prequels. You know going in that Palpatine is Sidious, you know going in that the Jedi are going to be made all but extinct, you know going in that only Yoda and Ben survive, you know going in that Anakin does not do the right thing in the end, you know going in that Padme won't survive. You know going in that the Republic will become the Emprie. The list goes on and on.

All for one surprise that only works the first time you see it.