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Go-Mer-Tonic

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Join date
13-Sep-2006
Last activity
28-Mar-2007
Posts
928

Post History

Post
#252318
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252318/action/topic#252318
Time
I don't know about fucked. This last release, while not everything we hoped it would be is a change of heart from Lucas' "never again" stance.

I think we need to at least aknowledge that this release wasn't a "fuck you" to O-OT enthusasts, it was the least he could do.

And I still don't see why playing it right would go out of style even if Lucas had a message in front of the bonus disc feature that said: Fuck you O-OT fans!". You only make him look better by being so negative and angry, because other people will see that and be like: I wouldn't give them what they want either".

You know what I mean?

In the end you should express yourselves the way you think you should, I just think that to acheive your goal, it pays to be more diplomatic about it.
Post
#252314
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252314/action/topic#252314
Time
I agree and understand the emotions involved. I already think the O-OT should be preserved just simply because obviously there are so many who do prefer it to the newer versions.

The reason I speak out about the negativity, is because while I think it would be the right thing to do for Lucas to produce a newly remastered anamorphic print of the O-OT, I don't think he is required to do it. In other words, it really is up to him.

That said, I think the best way to get him to reconsider this whole thing is by keeping the frustration and the anger focussed on the true goal, preserving the versions of the films we feel have historical and sentimental signifigance. When it spills over to literally demonize Lucas on all levels, and turns into a constant: "Lucas Sucks" slant to everything, that's not going to be taken as seriously as if you guys were more along the lines of: I don't mind Lucas altering his films, as long as we get the originals too.

Most of you I think are of that train of thought, and a lot of the "hate" or "negativity" I see here is probably mostly all the result of feeling slighted by Lucas over the release of the O-OT.

I'm not trying to tell you to stop speaking your mind at all, I just think it could be handled in a more diplomatic fashion that could cause Lucas to turn around and say: "Wow, maybe I have been a bit selfish in not releasing the originals in a proper format", instead of "Screw these hateful, negative bastards".
Post
#252283
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252283/action/topic#252283
Time
To me the Midichlorian concept is more inclusive than the Force was in the classic trilogy. In the classic trilogy, all we knew was that Luke was strong in the force because of his parentage. Back then, the idea that Han had a shot of being able to use the Force was all but non existant.

Now that we have the Midichlorian concept, which includes all life forms, it's not such an outlandish suggestion to think that Han would also be able to learn the ways of the Force, even if he didn't have as much natural ability as someone with a higher concentration of Midichlorians.

Hey Tiptup, did you see my response to your post from way back?
Post
#252281
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252281/action/topic#252281
Time
I agree, Critics are usually like weathermen. They try to predict how well a movie is going to be recieved, but it's all a bunch of guesswork really.

Here is the full article I linked to.
Senh Duong writes: "The results are not what one might expect, based on reviews collected during the time of each trilogy’s original release dates.

Based on current active critics though, the results are as expected. The average Tomatometer of the original trilogy handily beats the prequels by 20% -- 90% to 70%, respectively.

Prequels Tomatometer Scores Based on Current Active Critics:
83% - Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
65% - Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
62% - Star wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace
Average Tomatometer: 70%

Original Trilogy Tomatometer Scores Based on Current Active Critics:
80% - Return of the Jedi
98% - The Empire Strikes Back
93% - Star Wars
Average Tomatometer: 90%

However, as user ‘Knelt’ noted in our News section, it’s not fair to compare the two trilogies based mostly on current active critics because most of them saw “the original films as children, and are reviewing them based on nostalgic memories as well as judging them on established ‘classic’ status.”

When “Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace” was released in 1999, a group of us actually went to our local library and dug up a sampling of available sources that reviewed the original trilogy during the time of their respective release dates in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Because those reviews weren’t available online, we OCR-ed them and put them on the web, breaking all kinds of copyright laws in the process. We were quite the rebels back then. However, when we legitimized the company months later, those reviews were the first to go. Thanks to Archive.org, a site that archives the web pages, the quotes are still there but the full text reviews are gone. The results are actually quite surprising.

Tomatometer Scores for Original Trilogy During Original Release Dates:
(Click on the links for the archived quotes from Archive.org)
31% - Return of the Jedi
52% - The Empire Strikes Back
79% - Star Wars
Average Tomatometer: 54%

As one can see, only “Star Wars” managed to be Fresh, with a respectable 79% on the Tomatometer, while the other two sequels got successively worse. Most of the critics thought the first film was an inventive, fun, and entertaining summer popcorn movie. It’s interesting that they complain about the dialogue back then too. “Empire,” which is regarded as the best of the series nowadays, only managed to score a mixed 52%. It received great technical grades, but critics had problems with the plot, one way or other, and thought it was just “minor entertainment.” It got worse with “Jedi” – uneven pacing, no character development, tired acting, and hollow and junky filmmaking. It scored a moldy 30% on the Tomatometer. Prequels were probably the last thing critics wanted back then after the thrashing of the last film.

Ironically, if you compare the average Tomatometer of the prequels and the original trilogies during the time of their respective original release dates, the Prequels are actually better reviewed by 16% -- 70% to 54%, respectively!

Tomatometer Ranking of Star Wars Series Based on Critical Reaction During Original Release Dates:
83% - Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
79% - Star Wars
65% - Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
62% - Star wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace
52% - The Empire Strikes Back
31% - Return of the Jedi"
Post
#252278
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252278/action/topic#252278
Time
Originally posted by: Nanner Split
I feel like I'm watching a book burning in Salem while I'm tied to a dunking torture device.

Since when were there book burnings in Salem? Were the Puritans also Nazis or something?

Tomatometer Scores for Original Trilogy During Original Release Dates:
31% - Return of the Jedi
52% - The Empire Strikes Back
79% - Star Wars
Average Tomatometer: 54%


So you're saying that RottenTomatoes.com has been around since 1977?

I chuckle.


They started out by noticing that with their current active critics on Rotten Tomatoes, the OT handily beats the PT.

A lot of people were complaining that those figures were taking reviews of the OT from 97 (the SE release) and comparing them to reviews for the PT as they were first released.

So they went and did all kinds of research to dig up past reviews for the OT that were written around the time of those film's original releases, and it turns out there were a much higher percentage of unfavorable reviews back then compared to 20 years later.
Post
#252266
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252266/action/topic#252266
Time
What you mean like "office Lucas/McCallum naysayer"

Lucas: I think we should have Jar-Jar in the live action TV show... But let's run it by the office Lucas/McCallum naysayer.

L/M Naysayer: No I don't like it, he has no weapons, you can't possibly...

Lucas: Perfect, continue with the operation, you may insert Jar-Jar when ready.

Seriously Jim Ward for one has always been about getting the O-OT on DVD. As I understand it, it's mostly because of his lobbying that Lucas finally relented for the September release. And I think McCallum, while supportive of Lucas' revised vision would also just like to see all the fans happy.
Post
#252262
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252262/action/topic#252262
Time
Even the original Lord of the Rings books were treated as a product from the very beginning.

As I understand it, it was because of economics that they split up the books in the first place (people were more likely to buy a series of smaller books over time rather than one huge tome).

I also believe that the last book was called Return of the King by the studio for marketing reasons. Tolkein was against the title as it gave away the ending, but the publisher won in the end.
Post
#252257
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252257/action/topic#252257
Time
Okay, but you can't claim to be open minded anymore.

A lot of what Lucas has done for the film industry is to make film making tools cheaper and easier to use. Now adays someone with a decent enough personal computer can make their own movie. They no longer have to go to a studio boss and ask for as much money as they used to. Sometimes they can even foot the bill on their own, which allows them full creative control of their own movies. Something any film maker would cherish.

I think that by taking the big money out of the cost of film production, Lucas is helping artists prevail over the bean counters more and more.
Post
#252163
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252163/action/topic#252163
Time
What shot was the same?

Originally when I made that thread, I was having a hard time formatting the whole thing right, so I made a template that had the code for a picture link, followed by SE is better, which I copied over and over and just changed the picture name in each one, meaning to go back and edit more detail in later. Of course people got upset right away, and I was told not to continue with my list.

I was just pretty happy with all of the updates the official site listed, and was just trying to show that there was some good stuff done in the SE's. Not all of it was screwing with Han's character, or slighting Sebastian Shaw.
Post
#252157
Topic
For me...it all came out in the end...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252157/action/topic#252157
Time
Because I feel taste is subjective, and don't hold anything against people who don't like the SE changes. I just want as many people to be able to enjoy Star Wars as possible. If they are going to enjoy the O-OT more, then I would hope they can get that.

Also, I don't hate the O-OT, I just think that overall the 2004 SE is better. There are some things about it that aren't as good, but there are far more things that are better to me.

Also, I didn't just refer to some reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, I linked to an article they wrote where they determined that there was a higher % of positive reviews for the prequels than there were for the classic trilogy when you compared reviews that came out during the time of each movie's release.

Here it is again: Critical Consensus

I understand a lot of you don't like to hear things like this, but I don't think that makes me a troll.

Prequels Tomatometer Scores Based on Current Active Critics:
83% - Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
65% - Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
62% - Star wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace
Average Tomatometer: 70%

Original Trilogy Tomatometer Scores Based on Current Active Critics:
80% - Return of the Jedi
98% - The Empire Strikes Back
93% - Star Wars
Average Tomatometer: 90%

Tomatometer Scores for Original Trilogy During Original Release Dates:
31% - Return of the Jedi
52% - The Empire Strikes Back
79% - Star Wars
Average Tomatometer: 54%

I brought it up to illustrate the fact that it took time for critics to see how great the classic trilogy was, which lends credibility to my claim that the same could happen for the prequels as time goes on too.
Post
#252154
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252154/action/topic#252154
Time
I stick up for Lucas because he has given me almost a lifetime of enjoyment. More enjoyment than just about any other film maker.

The man is my hero.

There is nothing wrong with leaving a movie as good as you could get it before the deadline. Lucas' didn't have enough time and money to do what he wanted for the original Star Wars, hence why he chose to spend more time and money on it later when he could.

While it's flattering to hear you guys suggest I can control you guys, somehow forcing you to get angry, I think you guys are fully capable of controlling your own actions.

Post
#252123
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252123/action/topic#252123
Time
I don't see you bringing anything new to the discussion either.

You can exaggerate the situation to further demonize Lucas, but there is a huge difference between an artist coming into your home and altering a work you have already purchased, and an artist re-releasing previous works with further work done to them. You want people to take your feelings seriously, you have to be reasonable about it.