G&G-Fan

Spartacus01 said:

Don’t take this the wrong way, but I think that your argument is not logical. In my opinion, it is influenced more by your strong attachment to Vader as a character, and by the fact that you want him to always be portrayed as cool and badass, rather than by a rational analysis of the broader narrative and character development that the story is trying to achieve.

I feel like my viewpoint has been overly simplified, though I don’t think you did it on purpose. I earnestly love Darth Vader as a villain, not someone to be idolized, and part of that is the character’s distinct, contrasting layers.
I will submit, I wasn’t being rational when I wrote that initial message.

I never wanted Anakin or Vader to always be badass, or his internal conflict to not be explored. I am attached to Darth Vader being an awesome villain. But it’s not just that. Otherwise that high would’ve wore off a bit ago (I have ADHD and therefore am prone to addiction-like hyper fixations; however, I’ve loved Vader for years).
I adore ROTJ and the scenes of Vader showing vulnerability. I could not imagine Vader not being a father. “I am your father” is the greatest twist of all-time, and elevated the OT ten-fold. Both Luke and Vader as characters.
I would not love Vader as much if not for that duality between the monster and the man beneath. Both badass and pathetic. Menacing and sympathetic.

I like Vader still being powerful despite the suit because yeah, I love his menacing presence. But I also like how Vader being powerful but miserable deep down emphasizes that contrast. Star Wars is about love vs. greed. What does it say that the most powerful being in the galaxy is also miserable? That Luke gains happiness because he chooses compassion over power-hunger? That’s an impactful message for a young man like myself.
He’s still punished. He still loses everything and got burned.

In discussing the character’s emotional portrayal, we have to distinguish Anakin and Vader.

Anakin in fact should be expressive, but also have a tendency to repress his emotions in distress, forming a cold persona. This doesn’t mean he can never fly off the handle either. He goes cold because he cares too much.
As I’ve noted, this is shown in the OT. Vader regresses into his cold persona immediately after he admits something vulnerable or Luke says something that gets to him. In Anakin’s death scene, now having abandoned the dark side, we see he is very caring and sentimental.

Vader, mostly, is cold, fueled by a tranquil rage. He’s an imposing villain that I enjoy on a primal level.
There’s vulnerable moments before his redemption, but they’re sparing, yet more impactful because of that.
That’s important to his character. Vader is a tyrannical egomaniac who shuts out his emotions because he never wants to feel pain again.

Just as much as his vulnerabilities enhance the character, they enhance his villainy. It’s petrifying to realize that a person who was even once a noble hero could become that robotic monster, and adds depth to both Luke and Vader.
Evil is not beyond us. Part of Luke’s emotional journey is realizing that he could become just like his father.
It’s also impactful to see such a monster of a man redeem himself. It’s never too late.

My issues with the Prequels is that they too often handle his vulnerabilities in an almost infantile way. Way less often then OT Luke. It works for him because it’s less consuming.
When Anakin flies off the handle, it’s less of an adult anger and more amateur and teenage. A 23 year old man should not be yelling “It’s not fair!” in the childish manner he does.
Compare Vader angrily commanding his troops in ANH to that scene. It’s just not the same.
While you can argue it’s because he’s young for 2/3 of the trilogy, that’s one of it’s fundamental flaws of the trilogy IMO.

Anakin’s journey should parallel Luke’s better. Similar, but they should also fundamentally contrast one-another.
He should’ve been 19 in TPM, his mother dying in that film. Unlike Luke, where his uncle and aunts deaths inspire him to be a hero to prevent others from feeling that pain, Anakin wants to gain power to prevent himself from feeling that pain again.
Then in AOTC, we can parallel Luke in that now he’s an established general, but also goes on this journey of spiritual discovery, this time leaning on the dark. At the end of the film, when given a choice between selfish and selfless (like Luke’s sacrifice), he chooses selfish.
In ROTS, he’s colder. Not exactly like OT Vader, but more like ROTJ Luke, where he’s calm, but still prone to anger. The crucial difference is that Luke achieves that by actually letting go of his emotions. He in fact allows himself to feel them, but not consume him. Anakin achieves it by repressing them, so he goes cold. Darth Vader is the ultimate culmination of that.

Could any Peter Cushing footage in another movie suffice to add Tarkin to the Prequels even for a cameo as an Admiral, perhaps on Anakin’s battalion? Could one incorporate an idea of him being the one to design Vader’s suit?

I could survey his Frankenstein movies but I’m not really sure if one could use material from it considering he spends the entire time in Victorian era fashion.

paja said:

I thought this was a cool concept and cranked this up.

https://streamable.com/kjlngg?src=player-page-share

Not perfect and looks like there’s a wildfire happening instead of just Autumn, however I think it came out well.

Yayyyyy ppl like some of my ideas!

This is awesome man. Whilst I agree there’s room for improvement this is still impressive.

I’ve made some attempts of my own and it’s certainly harder then some online tutorials made it look, but I hope I can get it to look how I want. Your results turned out better then mine.

G&G-Fan said:

Something that’s insane to me is that Lucas when making the Prequels’ attitude towards Darth Vader. He spends the entire trilogy neutering the hell out of him, telling us he was a brat and that his iconic badass suit was actually hampering him (which doesn’t make any sense with how he established the Force to work), and even making him pathetically whine “Nooo!” like a cartoon. He doesn’t do this to any other villain. But at the same time, he gave into how much of a sensation Vader is by plastering him all over the advertising and making the entire saga surround him. It’s like he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a creator have such a contradictory mindset about a character.

I for some reason had a random flashback to this comment I made, and wanted to clarify that I don’t think Lucas hates Darth Vader or was “out to get him”. Of course he still wanted him to be a terrifying and powerful villain.
I just think that, at times, the Prequels went too far in trying to subvert him, and leaned too hard on the pathetic side of the character, which I think should be handled more sparingly and subtextually, like the theatrical ROTJ. And this was me venting my frustration in that aspect. Tho I’m sure a lot agree anyway.

I love how this film’s major plot point of the villains intending for our heroes to escape the Death Star characterizes Vader and Tarkin. They sent a bunch of troopers to die just to pretend to kill our heroes. That’s cold.

Mocata said:

Yeah it’s not that obvious, although he just calls him a strange old hermit earlier on, rather than anything more formal.

That’s part of what confuses me, I feel like there’s a bit of a mixed message as to how well he knows him. The way he talks to him when he calls him “Ben” feels like he’s addressing someone who’s been a mentor figure to him for years, whom he has a lot of respect for.

Maybe he has, but he still thinks of Ben as “strange” because he doesn’t talk about himself or his past very much? The way he says it does sound like he’s not too familiar with him.

Who made the Palpatine face transformation shot where his face goes from normal to monstrous?

I’m gonna use it for my own edit and want to credit the artist.

For my edits, I want Dooku’s true Sith form to be like a vampire. I never liked that he wasn’t physically corrupted by the dark side. I want him to be more like Dracula.

Here are some vampire Dooku tests. The gray skin is quite simple, creating a mask around his face and tracking it.
The red eyes are a lot more difficult, tracking especially. It took a lot of tweaking to make them look passable. I’d appreciate help in that arena, if someone else is interested.

Vampire Dooku tests

The gray skin is quite simple, creating a mask around his face and tracking it. The red eyes are a lot more difficult, tracking especially. It took a lot of tweaking to make them look passable. I’d appreciate help in that arena, if someone else is interested.

I think I’ve captured a better balance between red and orange. The previous ones I feel swayed too much one way or the other.

This just came to me: what if Tarkin designed Vader’s suit?

Tarkin should’ve been in the Prequels. He’s too important to have not been. He should’ve been a military admiral alongside Anakin, thus adding to Vader and Tarkin’s mutual respect.

Also, it’d be a great nod to Hammer horror, in which Peter Cushing played Victor Frankenstein.

How long did Luke know Ben, in the context of the OT?

To me, it always felt like they knew each other for awhile, but couldn’t see each other often because of Owen. They seem familiar with one another in their scenes together.

“Ben! Boy am I glad to see you.”

“Tell me young Luke, what brings you out this far?”

Whether or not they knew each other for awhile, I’ve never agreed with the criticism of Luke for being too sad when he dies. Luke is a person who grows to care for people fast. Likely because he doesn’t seem to have many friends on Tatooine left.

Luke about R2 near the end of the movie, after a couple days with him:
“Not on your life! That little droid and I have been through a lot together.”

On OT Radical Redux thread, I proposed changing Yavin’s (gas giant) color in ANH, and the red/orange gas giant be Endor, the planet the sanctuary moon is of.
Contrasting green and red/orange symbolizes the ultimate clash between good and evil. Also a tribute to the throne room originally being volcanic.

Attempts “Hellish” Emperor’s throne room. I did two versions, red hue and orange hue (to mimic the carbon freezing chamber).
This scene is turning out really well, I think.

Others, struggling a little bit. I’m struggling to remove a purple shadow from Vader’s saber in this shot, and my method has also completely fucked up Luke’s skin. I don’t want him looking like a vampire (at least I know an easy way to make Dooku look like one, now; that’ll come in handy).

Feedback and help would be much appreciated.

They totally should’ve gone full Frankenstein with Vader’s scene of being put into the suit.

“Now I know what it feels like to be God!”

An homage to the line from Vader could be like, “Now I know the true power of the Force!”

“Don’t you see what it means? Power! Power to rule! Power to make the world grovel at my feet!” - Jack Griffin, The Invisible Man

“If you only knew the power of the dark side!” - Darth Vader, The Empire Strikes Back

I’ve been recently rewatching (and enjoying) 30s monster movies (Frankenstein & Bride, The Invisible Man, etc.) I can say 100% that the romance scenes are never as cheesy as the AOTC ones. Sometimes it’s a bit on-the-nose, but it’s charming rather then grating (tho I will say, the romance in The Wolf Man hasn’t aged well, due to the social conventions of the time).

The performances play a part of it too. Claude Rains eats up his power-hungry monologues as Jack Griffin as much as James Earl Jones does as Darth Vader OT, and his scenes with Gloria Stuart are flowery but charming. Both Rains and Stuart were theatre actors, and thus knew how to pull off compelling melodrama. Same with Colin Clive as Henry Frankenstein and the two actresses that played Elizabeth.
Meanwhile, it feels like Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman are uncomfortable with the dialogue. They’re not experienced with that theatre melodrama, so it’s just awkward.
It’s also why Ian McDiarmid and Christoper Lee fare better with their material. McDiarmid is a theatre actor and Lee was basically reprising his role as Dracula.

darthrush said:

-remove Vader saying “I must obey my master”. Now he just says “You don’t know the power of the dark side”. Vader should be confident in what he believes is right like in ESB, rather than doing it just cause of the Emperor. For goodness sakes, he was plotting to take over before this film.
-remove Vader saying “It is too late for me son.” Way too obvious of foreshadowing, cheapens his eventual turn, and makes Vader seem like he already knows that what he believes in is wrong and misguided. This moment of self revelation for our characters is meant to happen at the END of the arc.
-remove the Emperor saying “You must know by now your father can never be turned from the dark side.” This just sounds plain stupid and makes the Emperor think of Vader as some prize that he has fooled. Vader should feel like a respected ally and learner of the Emperor.
-remove Vader saying “It is useless to resist.” What is this, some sort of shiny object called the Dark side being dangled in front of Luke. This makes the dark side feel less complex.

1 & 2. Darth Vader doesn’t believe he’s doing the right thing. He’s outright sadistic, and power is all that matters to him. That’s the meaning of lines like, “If you only knew the power of the dark side!” and “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.” He gloats about making Lando his bitch in his face. Twice.
A layer of regressed guilt is ashamed, but he doubles down on being evil because of his ego.

Darth Vader didn’t get high off of lording his power over others and make jokes about killing and torturing people because he thought it was the right thing. He doesn’t care what’s right, it’s about power.

His arc in the film isn’t him finding out the evil magic and killing people is actually bad (which, yeah, he’s a man in his late 40s, he should know that). It’s about choosing love over power. Not knowledge, choice.

3 & 4. I fail to see how the Emperor and Vader presenting the dark side as what it is, a powerful seductive drug, makes it “less complex”. It’s like any other dark magic in any other fantasy story. That’s what it is and always has been.

Anyone here British or have a British accent and comfortable with voice acting?

I’d like to experiment with redubbing some of the officers in ANH when talking to Vader so their attitude towards him is more like in ESB and ROTJ, more timid and submissive. They’d address him more by “my lord” then “sir” (he is called “sir” in all 3 as well, but there’s more "my lord"s in the latter two films).

The extras in ANH were British actors redubbed by Americans, so I personally wouldn’t feel bad about it.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Yes, the robotic filter is slightly missing for the AI part. Same problem I encountered for Zorri in Ascendant (but surprisingly not Kylo).

Maybe decreasing the volume slightly for that part could help disguise it better. Otherwise, we’d have to figure out how Lucasfilm designed the Vader voice filter.

To reiterate, I don’t think it’s that noticeable. Only people who are purposely paying attention would notice.

Ryan Golden has practically perfectly replicated the Vader filters, even for each individual movie (it was different each time). I could ask him about it. I’m friends with him.

Hal 9000 said:

Here’s something new from JJB. What do you guys think?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DwmceJ0DiMyqbkGC-sEHo_rfelpqBzZV/view?usp=drive_link

That is amazing. Wow.

I like that the lightsaber colors mean something. Color theory ftw. It allows you to play around with motifs and symbolism.

The Sith bleeding their crystals is so much better. It’s symbolic of their nature and relationship with the Force.
Not only do they have to steal a crystal from a Jedi (a test of their “survival of the fittest” ideology; if you’re too weak to beat a Jedi, you can’t be a Sith), but they also force the crystal to submit to their will, their dark side emotions. That’s what they do to the Force and the entire galaxy: bend it to fit their selfish desires.

When Vader bleeds his own crystal, it’s symbolic of his entire nature as a Sith Lord. He imprisons it within his unyielding robotic fists and subjects it to his power-hunger, his rage.
It’s visual storytelling for how can’t let go of his ego and hatred, because otherwise he’d have to face his guilt, regret, and he refuses to feel that vulnerability. He can’t confront it because he can never bring himself to believe he deserves redemption.
To make himself feel powerful, he makes others suffer.

It feels true to the original trilogy. It’s mythic, spiritual, fantastical, symbolic, fueled by emotion and character-work. The crystals being synthetic feels too prequel-like: overly complicated and based in mechanics rather then spirituality and emotional storytelling.

I like the idea that stormtroopers are clones.

In the way it was intended during the originals. Not that they’re all Boba Fett, but test-tube babies from multiple different hosts. I believe nepotism was involved too, with troopers being grown from certain high-ranking officers DNA.

It adds to the soullessness of the Empire. People weren’t voluntarily enlisting, they were artificially growing people and indoctrinating them for the sole purpose of serving.

When Lucas was making AOTC he intended for the stormtroopers to he the clones, which is why be had Jango bump his head on the door of his ship.

Make the Jedi Temple more like Mt. Olympus in Greek mythology by placing it on top of a high mountain.

Additionally, make it look more ancient and full of life. The poles have dust, rust, the place looks more brown. Even have plant life growing across it.

TDS91939 said:

So you’re not going with Padme dying on Alderon? When Leia is a toddler

Sorry, I just don’t know how to execute that, and I like that parallel sequence.

Updated first post to accurately describe the status of each edit and my new plans for the OT.
They’ll still be minor edits with mostly aesthetic changes (may look like quite a bit of changes when listed, but none of them are anything that have a major impact on the movie’s quality from a critical stance; all 3 are still masterpieces to me).
I have some ambitious Adywan-esqe ideas for them (as I do for the Prequels), but again, no major narrative changes.
ESB will likely be first done.

I don’t plan on using Revisited as the base for them anymore (though I do plan on integrating some shots from Revisited). Rather, oohteedee’s D+77/80/83 (thus I specify when I integrate an SE change).
I prefer the look of the 2019 versions, especially with oohteedee’s regrades. I will likely also do a bit of regrading myself.

I’ll still be offering my older version of ESB based on Revisited for anyone who wants it.

I know it can appear like I’m all talk (which I admit is partially due to my ADHD, and a somewhat perfectionist nature) but I do make earnest attempts to make stuff, and I want to release my own saga someday. I want them to be made more then anyone else wants to see them probably, since I can actually imagine it in my head.