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G&G-Fan

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12-Jul-2025
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Post
#1610935
Topic
How to Watch Star Wars, Part Two: The Special Editions Are the Movies, Get Over It
Time

Worley is a creator worshipper. What determines whether a film is good or not to him is the name attached to it. Everything Lucas makes is good, everything modern Disney makes is bad. The exception is when said artist had their vision tampered with by a studio.

He ranks the Prequels over Empire Strikes Back (ew) because while he still at least knows ESB is an excellent film, Irvin Kershner’s direction isn’t exactly like Lucas, so it goes last in his ranking of Lucas’ 6 film saga. Ironic, he’s degrading ESB for reflecting the vision of the person who directed it.

There’s a difference between respecting an artist and their work and believing everything they make is perfect.
Art being made with vision does not mean that others can’t desire it be different or want to make a derivative work (he slandered despecialized, calling it “fanfiction”, as if it was ever attempting to usurp the current official version), that others can’t interpret it differently, or just generally that they can’t have an opinion.
One can make an argument that when one watches a movie, they’re making their own “artwork” by forming their own interpretation of said art.
He wants everyone to submit to this tyrannical view of art that you have to think something is good just because it represents the artist’s vision.

We’ve been analyzing The Killing Joke for like 3 weeks now in a literature college course I’m taking (yes, we’re reading Batman in college; my professor is awesome). A big part of that is different interpretations. We’re not just reciting Alan Moore quotes over and over.

Post
#1610734
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

What if there’s a reoccurring motif of nightmares symbolizing Anakin’s fear of death throughout the trilogy?

I got the inspiration from this panel from Soule’s Vader comic run. As well as the ROTS novel, which has this symbolic “Dragon” that tells Anakin that “All things die. Even stars burn out”.

In TPM, Anakin has nightmares of this figure of Death taking himself and his mother someday.
In AOTC, Death taunts him, telling him he has his mother now, just as he will have him someday.
In ROTS, after the death of Dooku, Death taunts him that it doesn’t matter how strong he becomes, he will have him someday. Then later (going with the idea that the nightmare of Padme’s death happens way later in the movie, to plant the idea of Anakin craving immortality), we see this figure of Death taking Padme. Perhaps choking her, or some variant of the OG nightmare; perhaps take a cue from the original idea where she’s consumed by flames, as described in The Secret History of Star Wars.

This figure could be straight up Vader, or a more abstract shape of Vader, or even just straight up the Grim Reaper. Or maybe take a cue from the novel and have it be a Dragon, and when Anakin becomes Vader, just as in the novel, it chokes and kills the Dragon.

If the shape is Vader or resembles Vader, it further cements the symbolism of Anakin becoming an angel of Death in trying to cheat it.

I’m brainstorming ways I could execute it visually. I know Snooker made this demo of Anakin facing Vader in a nightmare in AOTC.

Post
#1609987
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Time

That guy with no name said:

If that’s the case then why does that shot in 2011 blu-ray look so much better? and why do the foreground elements look so sharp and clear? it’s as if they re-rendered those elements but didn’t do anything to the background.

I was thinking that bc the 2019 ones are higher resolution the old CG just sticks out more as dated. I’m not really all too knowledgeable about film restoration so.

Post
#1609974
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Channel72 said:

I hate Messianic prophecies in general, or the very idea of a Messiah, because it encourages the idea that all hope for the future is dependent on one dude, instead of like, the group effort that is required in real life.

It’s inclusion in the story doesn’t change the fact that it took so many to save the galaxy. Anakin may have killed the Emperor, but if not for Luke, he would’ve stayed Vader for the rest of his life. It doesn’t change the contributions of Han, Leia, Lando, etc.

Channel72 said:

Granted, Star Wars doesn’t incorporate a true Messiah into the mythology. Vader is more like a very round-about Messiah who only saves the Universe after he fucks over the entire Universe. So it’s at least a twist on the idea of a Messiah, kind of like Dune. But I still don’t like it, because it shrinks the Universe by elevating one guy to cosmic significance. At one point, Luke was just a random farmboy and Vader was just a cyborg SS officer carrying out the will of his government. There was a backstory intertwining the two of them, but it was personal, not a matter of cosmic importance.

Darth Vader, even exclusively in the OT
Is the Emperor’s right hand
Was critical in wiping out the Jedi Order
Who’s power in the Force is notable enough that Yoda makes a point of it multiple times, both when he was a Jedi and as a Sith
He’s the father of the protagonist
Who killed the Emperor

Luke Skywalker was the one remaining son of the Jedi, that were otherwise entirely extinct besides Obi-Wan and Yoda. When they pass on, he’s the only Jedi left. He’s the only Force user in the Rebellion. And he’s just as critical in saving the galaxy as his father.

They were never just some dudes.

There’s a difference between something like Yoda and Chewbacca being best pals and attaching mythological undercurrents to what were already arguably the two most significant characters in the OT.

I think it’s worth noting too that Luke is my second favorite character after Vader, so I appreciate how it elevates him just as much as his father.

Post
#1609882
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Time

I think the reason for the low quality special edition effects is bc computers back then couldn’t render in 4k. Unless Disney updates them, they’re stuck in the resolution they were made in.
But yeah I noticed the same thing. Part of what makes me stick to D+77/80/83 is the 97 effects just look putrid in the 2019 versions (I prefer to watch oohteedee’s regrades of those versions when watching the OT).
I wouldn’t object to something like adding digital Dewbacks so much if they could look at all like they exist in the same plane of existence.

Post
#1609671
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Spartacus01 said:

Let’s be honest here, the main reason you like the idea of ​​Anakin being the Chosen One is because it turns Darth Vader, who is your favorite character, into the most important person in the entire galaxy. 😂
If Anakin was not conceived to be the Chosen One of an ancient Jedi prophecy, the Prequels could have been written with the same story, and nothing would have changed at all.

I won’t deny that. I figured you’d agree since you like the Prequels just as they are.

Post
#1609480
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

I know some find it cheesy, but I love the idea that Anakin/Vader is “Space Jesus”. Mostly because it’s more of a subversion of the trope.

Star Wars is a modern myth, and I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s just “Jesus” in particular. Demigods are a common staple of mythology, from Mesopotamian to Greek to Hebrew. Especially since The Force isn’t strictly a metaphor for the Christian God, but more a concept that symbolizes Gods across cultures, imagines God as more of this energy field rather then an entity.

It elevates Darth Vader, especially in Canon, where he never lost any of his potential, into a greater cosmic/religious horror idea.
What if the Messiah sold his soul to the Devil (Palpatine) and became his Dragon, this Angel of Death who collects souls to bring them to the underworld? He uses his demigod like powers to commit atrocities, sets out to kill all of the other Angels/Priests (however one wishes to equate the Jedi symbolically), bring the galaxy under the Devil’s heel. What if Hercules became Hades’ servant and did the same thing?
Vader becomes this Grim Reaper, enforcer of Death, in trying to cheat death.

Because the Force conceived of Anakin, but Palpatine was this abusive father figure to him, he’s both the Son of God and Satan. He’s simultaneously Christ and the Antichrist, because Vader is the pure manifestation of Anakin’s dark side.

Luke Skywalker (and Leia) thereby also becomes a demigod, and as such, emphasizes his importance to Obi-Wan and Yoda and the galaxy. You need a demigod to fight a demigod.
Luke has equal potential to his father, and as such, not only is Vader made a greater force through this idea, but Luke. He’s the hero, the one person who can defeat the Devil’s Dragon.
Only Vader’s blood could face him, not only because they’re both demigods, but because of what Luke represents. His son isn’t just his blood, it’s Padme’s. The only one who can shake his soul’s faith in the dark side.

Anakin doesn’t return and fulfill his destiny until his son Luke is able to, through his compassion, compel him to redeem himself. Sons of Gods and Demigods battling and having complicated familial relationships is also a common motif in mythology. How interesting is it, too, that Jesus doesn’t sacrifice himself until he’s spent decades entrenched in sin? And really only sacrificed himself for his son?

It’s fascinating for me. For the record, I’m an atheist who finds mythology interesting.

Post
#1609254
Topic
The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread
Time

Bepis28 said:

For sure, i’m just wondering how that would be sorted out, visually with another actor, a line of dialogue, which film/films that would be shown, heard in, etc.

I mean, you can’t just have another dude be Vader before the suit, it’s an edit that attempts to hide the reveal that Vader is Anakin, not one that actually makes Vader and Anakin separate ppl.

Post
#1609240
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

TDS91939 said:

If I was to make a fan edit, I think I would change the prequel titles minus Revenge of the Sith. Just to mirror the original trilogy like The Phantom Menace should be ‘A New Threat’ and Attack of the Clones should be ‘The Republic Strikes Back’

Far too on the nose.

The titles already do parallel one another.

The Phantom Menance and A New Hope both describe the rise of a new heroic or villainous force that will define the galaxy.
Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back both describe the victory of the stated faction, and ties into how the Republic became the Empire, rather then the Empire taking over the Republic.
Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi are of course about the victory of each opposing Force religion.

I have considered alternative titles. “A Vergence in the Force” and “The Chosen One” are ones I’ve considered for TPM.

Post
#1608854
Topic
George Lucas should get more credit for &quot;saving Anakin Skywalker&quot; in Star Wars: The Clone Wars.
Time

NFBisms said:

I think if there’s one, individual Clone Wars arc worth watching, it’s The Wrong Jedi arc (season 5 finale arc). Written by a real crime TV writer - Charles Murray - it’s genuinely just good TV and has the chops to pull off its ambitions. When Ventress talks about turning Ahsoka in to “the bondsman”, I popped. It’s good stuff - just solid procedural genre fiction.

And so much of what the show nails is distilled into these four episodes. If you hadn’t watched previous seasons, it catches you up to the character dynamics at the top, and pays them off (for once) in a single taut plotline. Every other episode tables the character development for ROTS, and this is the only one to offer a new dimension to it.

I would agree if Baris’ plan made a lick of sense.

In order for her to have to have done everything she does in the prison, she would’ve either had to have an invisibility power or the ability to phase in and out of corporeal existence. And clairvoyance.

How did she know the exact second to choke Letta? How the hell does a Jedi run around a heavily guarded prison complex with troopers moving everywhere and literally kill some with lightsabers and not get noticed by anybody or caught on the CCTV? Tarkin literally says, “We don’t just have anybody running around in here”. In ANH, our heroes take over the control room (where the cameras likely feed to), disguise as troopers, blow up the cameras in the prison bay, and it’s also part of Vader’s plan for them to escape. Baris couldn’t disguise in trooper armor because her proportions don’t match. The prison is shown to have tip-top security, any Jedi entering immediately have their lightsabers confiscated, and are surrounded by troopers every second. They also can’t enter unless they’re asked there, so how did she get clearance to be in there, and why did her trooper escorts leave her alone?

The arc wants me to be mad at the Jedi and Tarkin, but like, it’s literally physically impossible for it to be anybody but Ahsoka. From their perspective, they did nothing wrong.
Even if Baris’ plan made any sense, Ahsoka’s only argument is, “But they should trust me!”… like they trusted Count Dooku, who Mundi and Windu stood up for, someone who was like a brother to them, only to then get betrayed on Geonosis? They gave him the benefit of the doubt and got their back stabbed, and you’re actually gonna pull that? What a complete lack of empathy. Almost as if we’re just supposed to see Jedi Masters as blocks of wood and not human beings. She expects them to just throw all evidence out the window, I guess. Guess they should’ve also trusted Vader even after those security holograms.
The logical inconsistencies have a ripple effect on every character (which is why, yes, plot holes do matter).

Peak TCW08 is the Umbara arc, Maul + Death Watch, and Fives Inhibitor Chip arc.

Post
#1608478
Topic
The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread
Time

A ton of interesting ideas here for sure. Your plot ideas for the 3 episodes are fantastic. I LOVE that we would see a suited Darth Vader hunt down and kill Jedi. That’s something I’ve wanted on-screen for a long time. I have the Vader comics I love, but it’s not the same as on-screen. The new structure would’ve allowed more time with Vader in the suit which I love. A lot of these edits sound possible.
It is my dream to one day, even if it starts a decade later, make my own Vader fan-film adapting my favorite comic arc, Fortress Vader, and I want to be the guy in the suit. It’ll require my own Vader suit, and once I have it, it’ll also allow me to also use it for any shoots I want for my own versions of the Prequels.

Me personally, I prefer it when Anakin’s turn to Vader is entirely selfish, rather then brought from mistrust of the Jedi. OT Vader was driven by power and ego. It’s implied Anakin went through the same tests as Luke, but as Obi-Wan puts it in an older draft of ROTJ, was seduced by what he saw one the other side of the door. Still, I understand many have different perspectives on the turn.

Regardless, I love your original trilogy edits and can’t wait for the Revisited trilogy to be done. Thank you for sharing your Prequels outline, too.

Post
#1608450
Topic
The parallels between the arcs of Han Solo and Darth Vader
Time

Han Solo and Darth Vader are both characters who became pure manifestations of the worst parts of their personalities.
By the end of the trilogy, the layers are unpeeled and the characters redeem themselves.
Though the trajectory of their arcs are not exactly the same, and don’t line up exactly from movie to movie, but broad strokes are similar.

Darth Vader, for the majority of his screentime in the three films, is a cold, rageful (tho contained), merciless, calculating, egotistical, selfish, even downright sadistic monster. He traps Lando in a deal with the devil with no intent on holding his end, lording his control over him. He tortures Motti for insulting him, Leia and Han for the sake of information and bait, threatens to torture/kill DSII workers to make them work harder. He uses Han as a test subject, not caring if he lives or dies. He torments Luke to get him to join him, threatens to do the same to his sister and to kill him. He kills Antilles, Obi-Wan, rebel pilots, and his own officers that fail him. He revels in his power: “If you only knew the power of the dark side!”. He makes sardonic jokes about his cruel acts.

Han Solo, when we meet him in ANH, is an overconfident, witty, suave, selfish, greedy, double-crossing pirate swindler. He lies and cheats for the sake of money, exaggerates the capabilities of himself and his ship. He makes up incoherent gibberish to Luke and Obi-Wan to sell them on the Millennium Falcon (“the Kessel run in less then 12 parsecs”). He kills Greedo in a sleazy, underhanded way. He smuggles drugs for a gangster and keeps sleazing his way out of paying him back. He gives off the appearance of not caring about anybody, constantly emphasizing that his first priority is himself and money over any selfless ideal. He initially refuses to save the princess and to participate in the Battle of Yavin. He makes fun of Luke and Obi-Wan’s religion, refusing the idea that there’s more to the galaxy then he might know.

Throughout his adventures with Luke and Leia, Han genuinely comes to care for them. He agrees to help save Leia now that he has an excuse for himself (she’s rich) even knowing the plan is crap. He’s extremely concerned about Luke’s well-being in the trash compactor. He chases the stormtroopers, telling Luke and Leia to return to the ship. His face when Leia tells him that money is all he’ll receive is rather vulnerable. It’s clear he already has feelings for her (“So Han, what do you think of her?” “Trying not to, kid”). He tells Luke “May the Force be with you”. Then, of course, he finally comes back to save his friend and revels in victory with his new friends.

In the beginning of ESB, Han is now a big part of the rebellion and willing to sacrifice himself for the sake of Luke, going out to save him in the frigid winter night despite the low chances of survival, and has a very steady, strong friendship with him. Han cares a lot more then he let on, in the beginning. Perhaps that’s why he used to pretend to not care at all.

Han is incredibly pushy, seemingly confident in his scenes with Leia, but the more I think about it, it’s because he feels like he has to be. He has to be overconfident so as to not be consumed by self-doubt. As some have commented on, his behavior can come across as borderline predatory, but I believe this is purposeful character development. He’s a scoundrel, as Leia says herself. He gets mad on Hoth after getting into an argument with her, refusing to talk to her until he hears about Luke. In the end, he’s right about her feelings for him, but what we see is that Han doesn’t take rejection well. Perhaps Han had relationship issues when he was younger, went through a lot of rejection in the past, and had to learn to be scummy and selfish in order to survive in the criminal underworld.

In ESB, we see small peaks behind Vader’s cold mask. Literally, as in, we see a big scar on the back of his head. Still, he is at most commanding and ruthless throughout the film. Vader’s goal is to trap his son into being a servant for his own selfish crusade for power. At the end, when Luke rejects him, he’s more fiery then usual (“Bring my Shuttle!”) and, in his telepathic communication with Luke, sounds more vulnerable then before. Throughout the film, he murders his officers in cold-blood when they fail him, even Needa, who just made an honest mistake and honorably took responsibility. Vader’s response is to jokingly throw it in his face after choking the life out of him. But after the Falcon escapes, he just solemnly walks away, sparing Piett, even after having threatened him, “Don’t fail me again.” There’s more to his conquest for his son then just wanting a Sith apprentice.

In ROTJ, Han is still his classic charming self and now takes an even larger role in the Rebellion. However, we see instances of insecurity in Han with his relationship with Leia. He has an awkward expression when she lays on him during C-3PO’s storytelling scene. He gets jealous that Leia confides in Luke but not him, scared that her having more confidence in him indicates she loves him more. Still, he makes the mature choice, apologizes, and even encourages her to be with Luke. He is rewarded by learning the truth, the situation was a misunderstanding. Han has matures past his insecurities. He doesn’t need to prop himself up with an overly confident persona, anymore.

Similarly, Vader is still the cold-blooded right hand of the Emperor, but as Luke presses on Vader during the conversations, it becomes clear that beneath his hardened personality is deeply repressed regret and guilt. Still, Vader is too egotistical and power-hungry to let go of the dark side, and even coldly states that he will kill Luke if he refuses to turn. It takes Luke making the sacrifice play, and watching his son on the verge of death that Anakin finally reawakens and sacrifices himself to save his son. Immediately, we have tender moments between father and son. In his death scene, Anakin is revealed to be an incredibly soft, caring, and sentimental man, wanting to see his son with his own eyes, even if it means he’ll die sooner. He was a man that lost everything in his quest for power, one who cared too much and went cold to not feel that pain, to feel invincible and satiate his ego. Who wouldn’t let go of that burning hatred for the sake of that adrenaline rush, to not feel the “weakness” within.

In the end, both men accept the vulnerable parts of themselves and find a new family, happy and healed.

Post
#1608443
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - ** PRODUCTION HAS NOW RESTARTED **
Time

adywan said:

One of my favorite shots of Darth Vader. His powerful black suit standing out amongst the grey throne room, complimented by the red guards and lights on the elevator. His confident, strong walk, despite full awareness he’s disobeying the Emperor.

You made it even cooler looking. Thank you!

Post
#1608428
Topic
The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread
Time

Adywan talked as if he had full story outlines, but kept them a secret for when they’d come out.

I’m surprised he hasn’t shared them, since he has no plans to produce them. Perhaps some would be interested in taking cues from him. And also, it’d really satisfy my curiosity. I respect him greatly as a creator and want to hear his ideas.

Post
#1608334
Topic
<strong>The Empire Strikes Back</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

I love how the opening emphasizes Han and Luke’s friendship so well. Han is willing to die for a chance to save his friend, and they have such a good dynamic he’s not mad at Luke for Leia kissing him. It’s a great way to make the audience fear they may never reunite and show Han’s growth. From the veneer of callousness to a real friendship.

Post
#1608330
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Vader Edition (WIP) (New Clips Avaiable)
Time

G&G-Fan said:

It’s also why, in ROTJ, he loses to Luke due to internal conflict, and when Anakin finally redeems himself, he succumbs not only to the injuries from the lightning disabling the suit, but all of them.
This ties into his arc of accepting the natural course of life. No longer using the dark side, a twisted perversion of nature.

I want to clarify: the intent isn’t that Anakin/Vader can’t live without the dark side after Mustafar. That takes too much agency.
A big point of the 2017 comic run, which I think matches the OT, is that Vader chooses the dark side during his reign as a Sith lord, due to ego and power.

The reason he dies after letting go of the dark side and killing Palpatine in ROTJ is because without the dark side’s power, he’s too vulnerable to withstand the lightning and damage to the suit.
But he wouldn’t drop dead if he had let go of it prior. He’d go through a weakened withdrawal period for a bit, like a drug addict would, but he wouldn’t die. He chose not to let go of the dark side. This also means that he knows that saving Luke and turning back to the light will kill him due to the Emperor’s lightning and withdrawal, which is the point of the scene in ROTJ.

I don’t want him using he dark side for self-preservation, like he can’t live without it. I feel it victimizes him too much.

Post
#1608317
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Vader Edition (WIP) (New Clips Avaiable)
Time

Spartacus01 said:

At this point, I think it would be much more simple to just rewrite the entire trilogy.

Most of the reason I’m making these is to make versions of the Prequels that I can enjoy watching alongside the OT. They’ll never be perfect, but still. I could and might still rewrite the trilogy, but it’s not the same as watching movies. Besides, there’s still things about ROTS I still enjoy despite my problems, just enough that I want to make an edit of it.

A lot of this is still doable I feel. If I can’t do everything I want, I’ll get it as close as I can.

Post
#1608278
Topic
Revenge of the Sith - Vader Edition (WIP) (New Clips Avaiable)
Time

TDS91939 said:

Love it all until I read the end, death by force choke. I love how you kept it as faithful to the original trilogy as possible but, the scene in Return of the Jedi; Luke asks about Leia’s mother. You’ve essentially created an inconsistency like George did

I can try to make her survive until Leia’s like, 2-4. I don’t know how to, but I can try to mull over it. And I want her to die in the movie. While I do believe the OT should be watched first in terms of the official versions of the saga, I want to attempt to make these edits successful as the first 3 movies. Because the OT is the best, and I think it’s cooler if the movies get better as you watch. As such, I need to show what happens to Padme before the OT. Otherwise ppl may go into ANH thinking she’s still alive and Vader just doesn’t know about her. Not my intent.