Archivist99 said:
He was a slave, but he was the only child of an exemplary mother. There is a warmth there (and part of losing that warmth at 9 is what goes wrong). Michael was the youngest (?) child of a crime lord.
A slave’s life is still far worse. Especially considering Vito was extremely good at separating his business from his family. Michael may have grew up around Mafia men but his father (and mother) was still very warm.
Anakin doesn’t act tough by repressing as much as by having a standoffish/confident quality, which is well needed given the people he hangs around. Sebulba, Watto, various scumbags like that. He’s not going to be “reserved”, he is going to puff out his chest. Michael by contrast, could lay low and observe in the shadow of privilege. He’s reserved because he can afford to be.
He can’t be both? Vader was very much both reserved and confident. So was Michael. Anakin should be the same way.
“Supposed to”, according to who? He represses certain destructive instincts, but when it comes to communicating, again, he is very forward.
George Lucas. A part of Anakin’s character is that he refuses to admit to his own feelings.
https://david-talks-sw.tumblr.com/post/692126625024835584/going-over-anakin-the-council
https://qr.ae/pGDxQt
But if he is already like Vader before the turn it is a boring, predictable story that doesn’t involve interesting character change. What you are suggesting is what JJ Abrams would have done. Basically the cliche Clone Wars version of Anakin, except nastier.
What I actually said was that the Vader persona would be a part of Anakin, but he mostly keeps it at bay, before it gradually consumes him. He starts out his Clone Wars/Battle of Coruscant self and descends from there.
Also, the arc you’re suggesting, an emotional wreck becoming a cold machine, isn’t what ends up happening. Anakin starts a nice kid, becomes an emotional mess, and then we have to infer 20 years of character development before he becomes the cold calculating Vader.
Plus, as I said, I do not agree that Michael even is what you are describing. He is a short, quiet man who occasionally gets coldly angry. All those other things you described are not within him the same way they are within Vader.
Michael is everything I described.
Cold and collected I don’t need to explain. Calculating, he orchestrated the plan to kill McClusky and Solozzo, the deaths of the heads of the 5 families, getting Geary in his pocket, and everything with Roth. Ruthless, he coldly kills Carlo and Fredo despite being family. Confident and authoritative, just look at his scene with Carlo or Senator Geary. He’s possessive of Kay and his children in Part 2. And he’s vengeful. He can’t forgive Fredo, can’t let Roth go either (despite there being no real reason to kill him), and can’t forgive his wife when he shuts the door in her face.
He does all the things that he does not out of an embrace of power and conquest for the nebulous reasons given to Vader in the OT, but out of a loyalty to his father that congeals into a thirst for power, but it never goes as far as Vader and the characters are just too psychologically different. Michael isn’t shooting his commanders in the meeting room then cracking wise about it.
I clearly meant that the character’s personalities and demeanor’s resemble each other, not that they do things for the same reason or are exactly alike. But I will argue that Vader is motivated by a thirst for power and vengeance.
I clearly used Michael as an example of a character that’s colder and more emotionally reserved. He has many character traits like Vader, but he’s not exactly the same, and I don’t expect Anakin to be exactly like Michael either.
Michael doesn’t kill his commanders in a meeting room and crack wise about it, but he’ll have his button men choke Carlo to death. And his own men, if they’re traitors.
Anakin’s story is the story of a broken child who turns into a deranged serial killer who acts more machine than man.
Broken child? He goes “Yippee!”.
Michael’s story is the quiet, straight-laced child of a crime family decides to take the path of revenge and becomes more cold and heartless in the name of “the family”. Michael loses much less of his soul than Anakin, hell he still talks to his ex wife and has a somewhat quasi normal (compared to Vader) relationship with his larger family at Vader’s age.
No potential prequel trilogy fits this. Even if you made Anakin more like what you are describing, he would still be a huge hulking man compared to Michael, and who is much more overtly mean spirited than Michael.
Again, I meant they should be more similar in personality. Not that Anakin should do less bad things. But Anakin becoming Vader by deciding to take the path of revenge (as well as a lust for power) and become more cold and heartless is absolutely a great arc for Anakin to become Vader.
Also, Anakin succumbs to the dark side to save Padme, who you could call his family, so another similarity there.
Regardless, the idea of Anakin slowly succumbing to the dark side’s power to learn the power to cheat death, thus becoming colder in the process, is absolutely the right kind of arc for Anakin and does have resemblances to Michael’s arc. Walter White’s as well. And it should’ve taken more cues from Michael’s in terms of structure, being a slow descent, instead of rushing it (and Walt’s too, but Lucas can’t see in the future).
I think the story wouldn’t work nearly as well, no. As I said, Luke’s struggles are lesser due to his story not being about turning into Darth Vader. Also Luke being so high ranking in ESB never made sense to me. The opening crawl of that movie says he is in command of Echo base, for god’s sake.
In the version I described Anakin doesn’t have any lesser struggles then the prequels that were made. In fact I’d argue being a slave for the first 19 years of your life would be worse then the first 9.
Because 3 years have passed and Luke’s had time to become more experienced?
That’s exactly what happens.
I meant gradually, throughout the trilogy. Also, this was in response to him not making jokes asserting his dominance like Vader, which he never does. He doesn’t have to wait to become a full-blown Sith to say something like, “We would be honored, if you would join us.”
Yeah but how did he overcome his recklessness? He didn’t go back to Yoda, he seemingly didn’t talk to Ben, and Yoda predicted that Luke going to Bespin would be bad for Luke, not lead to character growth. Luke in RotJ is approaching Qui Gon levels of Zen, whereas in ESB he’s still basically a farm boy who went off to war.
Not going back to Yoda isn’t recklessness, it’s loyalty to his friend Han. He literally goes to see Yoda right after.
His “Qui-Gon levels of Zen” is what I meant when I said he overcame his recklessness. He comes up with a calculated plan to rescue Han rather then rushing in. He isn’t perfect and still makes mistakes, but he’s improved.
In ANH he’s a farm boy that went to war, but again, 3 years have past by ESB, he’s had time to become more experienced.
That’s my point though. It would if he didn’t have such stable surroundings. Heck, he would have killed Motti (?) if Tarkin hadn’t stepped in.
Vader comes across to me as someone who’s smart enough to restrain himself when he moment calls for it.
What, he definitely considers it. When Palp says his whole “I know we can discover the secret” thing, you can see on Anakin’s face that he loses even more hope.
Why would you go through with such a shitty deal then?