Awesome reel. I like how you have Vader kill both of the backup pilots in the first trench run. I’ve always liked how ANH showed that Vader is an excellent pilot and marksman and this just enhances it even more.
Other then some scenes on Hoth being slightly green, the color grading is excellent. I’m especially glad the overwhelming aqua hue is gone. Dagobah and Cloud City look stellar.
I find it weird that the SE introduces a praxis shockwave ring around all three major explosions of the trilogy. If there’s only one, that feels better to me.
And since I’m using the SE version of the battle of Yavin, I feel it’d be weird to switch into the OOT right at the moment of the climax. Plus, that shockwave (first Death Star) actually feels like it adds something to me.
I find it weird for the first Death Star to have a shockwave ring and not the second since the second one is way bigger.
It’s your edit tho, you do you.
Why was the ring in the second Death Star explosion in Return of the Jedi removed?
That’s like, one of the few SE Mos Eisley shots that I actually like. And I bet it’s not coincidental that it’s also one of the few that uses practical effects (as well as just having the CG creatures in the background where they belong).
Where can I find DrDre’s color matching tool?
Have you considered simply using the OOT version of the Mos Eisley entrance? I personally prefer it.
Maybe you should rewrite the Prequels instead of doing fanedits, then. Have you ever thought that?
Imma be honest, I haven’t worked on my fan-edits in a long while, and I’ve been thinking about doing rewrites for a long time. I’ve got a lot of ideas for the plot for each movie.
I’ll probably still make fan-edits of the Prequels tho, just so that when I do watch them they’ll be more enjoyable experiences. And for what it’s worth, I still enjoy ROTS a lot.
That wasn’t the point of my replies. The point of my replies is: for the story they have to tell, the Prequels are intrinsically not good for a movie format, because there are a lot of things to explore, and there’s not enough screan-time to do it. So, it would have been better if they had been part of the EU. However, even with their limited amount of screan-time, I’m still capable of getting everything necessary to appreciate them.
That’s cool. I personally would’ve preferred if the 3 movies could stand on their own, but I’m glad you appreciate them for what they are.
Will never be a fan of pining the blame of Anakin’s turn on the Jedi. Darth Vader should be a villain with agency responsible for his own actions. Makes him a more powerful and badass villain.
This may be driven by the fact that I’m a Vader fanboy, but it’s just my opinion.
So, the summary of your criticism is this: in the first two Prequel films there is not much story to tell, so you lose a lot of time behind secondary things. Am i right? If so, then great, it’s a very acceptable critique. But my reply is this: not every movie in a Saga has to be fundamental to understand the Saga itself. In my opinion, sometimes it’s nice to have movies where the plot is a little calmer, without necessarily having action and important things happening all the time.
At the expense of giving Anakin a more gradual fall to the dark side, showing him and Obi-Wan being friends, Anakin being heroic, more manipulation of Anakin from Palpatine, or maybe even more time with Darth Vader in the suit?
There’s a reason people love The Clone Wars. There’s a galaxy of potential in this era.
It was enough for me. That scene was really enough to make me feel that they are good friends. Especially because being friends doesn’t necessarily mean not arguing or having a good chemistry all the time.
Good for you. But for a lot of people, the arguing felt too antagonistic to the point where it felt like Obi-Wan couldn’t stand Anakin. Which is where the popular interpretation of “Obi-Wan wasn’t a good master/father figure to Anakin” came from, even though it wasn’t Lucas’ intentions.
It’d be a lot better if it was spread out between healthy banter, but in AOTC there’s none of that except for the elevator scene.
Do you realize that without the assassination attempts there’s no investigative plot, that without the investigative plot there’s no Clone Army, and that without the Clone Army there’s no Clone Wars, right? How do you think they should have used the screan time instead? The movie shows exactly what it’s supposed to show: the beginning of the Clone Wars, and Anakin and Padmé falling in love. The investigative plot leads to the beginning of the Clone Wars and the romance leads to…the romance.
There’s a very different way to plot it that could lead to a much more streamlined story. You could have a cool James Bond-esque Obi-Wan investigation, but it doesn’t have to be so dragged out. It takes 3 whole scenes just to find the planet. And maybe even have Anakin be with him (this would ideally take place in the first movie) to show their friendship. Or you could have Palpatine just introduce the clones without any mystery plot and show Anakin-Obi-Wan friendship in a different way.
Furthermore, you could have Anakin and Padme fall in love in the midst of the clone war. The Separatists are attacking Naboo, Anakin and his troops are sent to intercept on his first solo mission. Allows us to have the love story, gives the opportunity to showcase Anakin being heroic while also allowing us to show Anakin giving into the dark side more in battle. Maybe even throw Tarkin in there as a military commander. Now that I think about it, the love story would be better for the second film.
It is not “a part”, it is the whole movie! Again, without the Trade Federation blockade there is no Naboo crisis, and without the Naboo crisis there is no Palpatine’s election. How do you think they should have used the screen time instead? The movie shows what it’s supposed to show.
I can think of another way to streamline it. The Separatists are introduced in the first movie as a secessionist group. The surface level reason to blockade a planet is blackmail for independence (of course they’re actually doing it because Palpatine told them to). Palpatine’s able to make the Chancellor look weak because he doesn’t want to go to war, and because of that he’s able to get elected. By the end of the movie the clone war begins.
Starts the clone war earlier, more consistent villainous organization through the trilogy, and less of a need to explain space taxes.
You can do this alongside some other subplot. Maybe you do think we need to see Anakin found on Tatooine and his background and keep Qui-Gon. Maybe we just start with Obi-Wan and Anakin already master and apprentice and they’re the ones that try to negotiate instead of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Include a subplot of Obi-Wan and Anakin uncovering the clone army, or maybe they’re too busy with something else and some other Jedi like Mace Windu, Plo-Koon, or even Yoda does that, allowing us to flesh out one of the other Jedi characters a bit. There’s a lot of ways you can retool the plot to be better structured.
If you prefer the Prequels just as they are, that’s excellent for you. I’m glad you find them fulfilling where I don’t. These are just my ideas and my opinions.
Anyway, I apologize to you G&G Fan. I was wrong about what I said, and it’s embarrassing to look at the original thread and see myself defending a viewpoint which I really think should have been obvious how wrong it was. I’m feeling that way more and more about the shit I’ve said on the internet years past. Although Nerdonymous’s major chip on his shoulder really does make the video fucking suck.
You’re good man. I’ll think about messages I’ve sent here before that just make me cringe (me bending over backwards to defend the Prequels, like my old Yoda thread). I’ve funnily gone from one of the biggest Prequel defenders on the forum to agreeing with a lot of people’s issues, even if I still enjoy ROTS a lot (tho I’ve changed my mind about it being better then ANH; ANH is awesome). My last rewatch of the saga had me saying a lot of the stuff OT fans say. I used to use Rick fucking Worley videos to support my points before coming to the inevitable realization that he’s an egotistical idiot (probably should’ve been tipped off by him slandering Marvel; the MCU is awesome, I will take no sass). Sometimes I’ve exploded in ways that are just embarrassing to look back at, too.
But in the end we all grow and change and evolve.
Sure, but that’s your opinion. There’s people who would have complained about what you say as well. In fact, I’m sure that if they had really done this, then the Prequels would have been criticized anyway, by using statements like: “They told us about how Anakin lived in slavery and how it was horrible, but it’s impossible to directly relate to it, because we weren’t shown. Please George, show, don’t tell.” I mean, if you really want to find problems, then it’s virtually possible to criticize the Prequels by using every possible argument and counter-argument.
Yeah, some people would complain about it. I don’t really care. Some people complain about stuff in other movies I like and I just disagree.
I disagree with a lot of people’s problems with Return of the Jedi’s narrative choices. Hell I’m an MCU Spider-Man fan, I have to defend controversial creative choices from whiny fanboys who can’t accept change people all the time.
Besides, they didn’t show it in the movie we got, anyway. There’s never any sign he was abused and he’s never scared of his master. Like I’m not saying to show a 10 year old getting whipped (which would just be fucked up), but like at the very least show that Anakin is really scared of his master. I still think it’s ideal to just start him at 19 at the least. Because it’s the backstory, not the story. Breaking Bad didn’t dedicate whole episodes to Walt working at Grey Matter.
It’s not complicated if you pay attention to the movies and notice the details, like the facial expressions, etc. For example, last year I showed all 6 original Star Wars movies to a friend of mine, and when he saw Attack of the Clones for the first time he knew right away that Sidious and Dooku were behind the creation of the Clone Army. When I told him there were people who had trouble understanding it, he literally said: “Really? But how? It’s so obvious…” So, not everyone finds the story complicated. Sure, I think that some parts could have been explained better, but the story is not so complicated to understand if you pay attention.
I’m not referring to “it’s too complicated to understand”. Like yeah, the Prequels are kinda obvious, narratively. We’re talking about the movie with, “If only… Senator Amidala, were here”.
I’m referring to the fact that the movies are overstuffed. Attack of the Clones is a prime example of too much plot, too little character development. Lucas even realized he fucked up not showing any Anakin and Obi-Wan friendship in the movie and put in the elevator scene in pick-ups. But a 1 minute scene in which they recount old adventures didn’t do enough to make people feel they’re such good friends. More legwork that had to be done by Revenge of the Sith.
The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones suffer so much from bloating their plots that so much got pushed back to Revenge of the Sith. Lucas himself even admitted this.
George Lucas said:
But I did run into the reality of the first film. Basically, he is a slave kid. He gets found by the Jedi and he becomes part of the Jedi order and that he loves his mother. You know, that’s maybe a half hour movie. And so I did a kind of jazz riff on the rest of it and I said, “Well, I’m just going to enjoy myself. I have this giant world to play in and I’m going to just move around and have fun with this because, you know, I have to get to the second part.” So, then I got to the second part, and it was kind of the same thing. They fall in love, they can’t and they’re not supposed to, and, you know, little bits of trivia in terms of, you know, setting up the empire and how all that stuff works.That’s about another twenty percent of this story treatment. The first film is twenty percent, the second film is twenty percent and I then ended up with a third film. The problem was the third film was actually more like eighty percent of the story. So, I was sitting there with a lot more story to tell than I actually had time to tell it. It was the reverse of what I had in the first two films.
Most of the story is in Revenge of the Sith. So much screentime in the other two films is wasted because of that.
That’s the whole point of The Phantom Menace. Unless you wanted a single line where they say something like: “Palpatine became Chancellor because he was elected.”
That’s… what I was referring to. I was saying that a better Prequel trilogy would be the content of Revenge of the Sith, some elements of Attack of the Clones (mostly just the beginning of the clone war and Anakin and Padme falling in love, which should’ve been in the first movie), and showing how Palpatine became the Chancellor (AKA a part of The Phantom Menace).
I brought that up in particular as a lot of people suggest already have Palpatine as the Chancellor at the beginning of the trilogy which IMO isn’t a good idea.
Showing an innocent child who turns into an inhuman monster who kills children is very impactful as well, and showing Anakin’s childhood and his life in slavery is important to understand his character.
(Almost) Every child is innocent. Showing that Anakin was a good kid means nothing. I’m sure Jeffrey Dahmer was a “good kid”. What actually matters is seeing that Anakin was a good man.
Also no, his life in slavery doesn’t end up meaning anything, in the end. It’s never brought up again after The Phantom Menace. It’s never delved into how it affected him. He just misses his mom, which is normal. His trauma isn’t explored until the Zygerrian arc in The Clone Wars.
Besides, being told he was a slave and seeing how it effects Anakin would’ve been much more effective. It’d allow the audience to fill in the blanks, rather then just seeing Anakin go “Yipee!” and having no apparant fear or hatred of his master. Allowing the audience to fill the blanks is way better because what the imagination can think of is far more horrifying then anything they could get away with showing on screen in a kids movie. That’s why Han Solo’s torture in The Empire Strikes Back works so well.
If you wanted to tho, you could show him in slavery in nightmares he has or something. Either way, it’s not a good enough reason to have him be a kid a whole movie.
Spartacus01 said:
As I said, everything in the Prequels is important, the problem is just that there’s a limited amount of on-screan time, which prevents you from showing everything in detail. That’s why I said that the Prequels would have worked better as EU. I mean, imagine if the Prequels were an EU multimedia project, consisting of books, comics and video games. It would have been great, because in a EU multimedia project everything can be shown in detail and you don’t have to worry about on-screan time at all.
Well that’s the issue, isn’t it? They’re too convoluted. They don’t work as films on their own. George should’ve cut down the story to make it less complicated.
The content of Revenge of the Sith and some of Attack of the Clones (plus showing how Palpatine became the Chancellor) are enough for a whole trilogy.
Showing Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship makes it way more devastating when Anakin turns and they have to fight. I think that’s more important then showing him as a young kid.
Like I said above, I think it was a brave thing to post that Nerdonymous video on here considering it shits on fan preservations and fan edits. Brave or stupid or maybe naive, if you thought nobody would call that part of the video out. No disrespect, just saying it like I see it.
As if that snide comment about fan-edits and preservations was ever the main topic of the video (which I obviously disagree with due to being on the forum in the first place).
He did a lot of research which is really awesome. And it proves that RocketJump wasn’t being genuine in his portrayal of Lucas and the making of the movie.
I’ve discussed this with people here before, and people got upset about it. And yeah, the guy can be passive aggressive and somewhat mean, but the points are still valid. I understand being mad about slander and misinformation about something you love. It was probably also partially due to me. I think you’ll get a lot better reception as you’re way more level-headed and objective.
Ultimately I think the original video gained a lot of traction because people really want an answer to, “What happened to the Lucas that directed the original trilogy?” question. Which is understandable and relatable. But to say that it must’ve been because George Lucas was just never good isn’t right.
In general, a story like the Prequels is very hard to write. A “good guy turns evil” script is not easy to pull off in a believable way, especially in only 3 movies. Yeah, the Godfather pulled it off, but that’s why its revered as a classic. Also, Michael Corleone went from a normal every-man to a very unforgiving mafia boss. Anakin has to go from an honorable, likable hero, to a genocidal fascist cyborg in only 3 films. This kind of story is hard to pull off, and I almost wonder if The Phantom Menace was Lucas’ way of unconsciously procrastinating on all that difficult dramatic writing.
Very true. It’s very hard to write a good person becoming a bad person in a way that feels natural, doesn’t feel out of the blue and would make sense in their head, while at the same time making sure you don’t make them pathetic and without agency either by having it feel like they were practically forced into it.
I love yours ideas for the trilogy btw.
Lucas briefly toyed with the idea of a 12-episode saga. Episode I would’ve been the prelude to the Clone Wars trilogy, with Episode V serving as an interquel between the Clone & Star Wars trilogies. That would’ve given us 4-5 films in which to explore Vader’s rise and fall.
What could’ve been. But this is why I’m partial to rewrites/fanedits which jettison the episode numbers altogether.
Where would episode 6 have gone then?
But yeah I’m completely sympathetic to people who want there to be more then 3 films.
I agree partially. Lucas does deserve blame for structuring his trilogy badly and barely showing Anakin being heroic and likable or Anakin and Obi-Wan being friends. The only time we see Anakin be charming, likable, having a good rapport with Obi-Wan is the beginning of ROTS which is far too late. You have to sit through one boring film and one abysmal film to get to it.
But when people say TCW Anakin is a completely different character or that Filoni fixed him, it isn’t really correct. He’s the same as ROTS Anakin, we just got to see more of him.
The thing with the lightsaber jump cut being explained by it having a stronger ignition due to it being ignited for the first time in 19 years has always been my head canon to explain it and I think it’s cool that you do more to make it look more clear.
Owen and Beru do not know Anakin is Vader. They think he’s dead.
It’s probably difficult for some folks to wrap their heads around Vader being the Dark Lord of the Sith whilst being subservient to a non-Sith Palpatine because since 1999, the Sith have been portrayed as apex predators who have a monopoly on dark side mastery. But this is purely an invention of the prequels.
You do realize that the fact that Vader calls Palpatine his master obviously means Palpatine was a Sith in TESB and ROTJ? Like yeah you can rationalize a different explanation but it’s clear that’s the intention. There’s no need to jump through hoops for another explanation. The scripts for all three call Vader a Dark Lord of the Sith and the Emperor is his master.
“Master” obviously does refer to their relationship as Sith Lords because none of the imperials are calling him master, so it’s not just a term recognizing his authority. Vader is his apprentice and he tries to replace him with Luke, as he calls him his apprentice twice.
There’s literally no reason to not make Palpatine a Sith other then to just be different for no reason.
Is there a way fix your father’s lightsaber your father wanted you to to have it when you were old enough line and the when I first knew him your father already a great plot but I was amazed how strongly the force was with him I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi to fit continuity?
Obi-Wan telling Luke that his father wanted him to have his lightsaber is a lie to get Luke to want to use it as he looks up to the idea of his father. This is important to Luke’s character: he joins the Jedi because he wants to be like his father, only for that dream to be shattered once he realizes it’s Darth Vader.
Everything Obi-Wan says in ROTJ is technically true, even if arguably he should’ve had a more active role in TPM. Anakin was already a great pilot and Obi-Wan would’ve known that, Obi-Wan was amazed by how strongly the force was with him because he was the one who first saw his midichlorian count and was amazed by it, and he did take it upon himself to train him as a Jedi, he just did it after Qui-Gon died to fulfill his promise.
It may feel a bit misleading but technically everything he says is correct even when taking the prequels into account.
- Palpatine being definitely a Sith (as opposed to just a Dark Sorcerer)
Palpatine has been a Sith since TESB. Vader calls him his master in both TESB and ROTJ. He can’t be his master if he’s not even from the same Order. Vader has also always been a Sith since ANH’s first drafts.
Having the Ewoks be cute works. This movie is different from ESB, just like ANH is. ANH is the fun serial adventure that introduces our heroes and villains. Luke begins his journey as a Jedi, Obi-Wan is the kind and wise mentor, Han learns to be selfless and the banter between him, Luke, and Leia is fun. Darth Vader is introduced as the monstrous villain that he is. Intimidating, powerful, and commanding. ESB is the darker, more tragic movie that explores the main characters flaws and Darth Vader wins against everyone. Luke faces trails in his training, realizes his entire conception of what a Jedi is is wrong as his beliefs are flipped on his head, disobeys his masters, and learns the dark truth about his father. Han gets frozen right as Leia finally gives into her feelings. Vader’s ruthlessness is at full force and he commands the film like a terrifying force of nature. All of the main characters are his prey.
In ROTJ the main characters are now at their peak. Luke is a Jedi Knight, and Han and Leia are both respected leaders of the Rebellion. Vader, while still ruthless, is beginning to soften. However, the heroes still have some flaws to overcome and it’s still dark and serious quite a bit. When it has to do with conflict with Luke, Vader, and the Emperor, the battle for Luke and Vader’s souls, and things become more intense for the Rebels due to the presence of the Emperor and the second Death Star. The stakes are so much higher. But the also movie allows itself to lighten up a bit. Not only to balance the even more intense stakes, but the Ewoks help keep it somewhat lighthearted to prepare us for the pompous happy ending in which our heroes win and the galaxy is saved.
I find that the cinematography looks better and more appealing in the 4K83 projects than it does in the official releases. I think it has something to do with the colors and the filmic look, but the movie just looks a lot prettier.
My latest rewatching was done on Disney+ cause I’m lazy, and honestly the movie looked fantastic to me (after I turned up the color on my TV, as the 2019 OT transfer is desaturated AF). Next time I marathon the movies I want to watch the original version as the special edition changes bothered me but the movie looked great.
I really love the way Marquand films Darth Vader, especially. In all of his shots he always emphasizes Vader’s bulk, which makes him feel powerful and imposing. Kershner did too a great job of it too, but Marquand does it in his own way that’s just as good and that I feel like is worth mentioning.
Also I’m gonna drop a couple more hot takes. This movie is just as perfect as A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back and the Ewoks are not only fine but necessary. There’s so much dark stuff going on in the movie (especially the Luke/Vader/Emperor plot) and the stakes are so high that some comic relief is necessary. Also of course this movie is gonna be more lighthearted then Empire, it’s the one where the good guys win.
My new ranking
The original trilogy are all perfect movies. I enjoy Revenge of the Sith a lot still despite it’s flaws.