I disagree with people who say this movie isn’t as well-directed as the other two in the OT. I really love the directing in this movie. Marquand does such a great job always putting the camera close to the characters so you can really feel the emotions of a scene.
How DARE You remove Yoda vs Palpatine, THERE WAS NO FUCKING NEED OF REMOVING IT! “BUT IT INTERRUPTS OBI WAN AND ANAKINS FIGHT!!!” I DON’T FUCKING CARE IF YOU’RE IMPATIENT, YODA VS PALPATINE IS EQUALLY AS IMPORTANT AS ANAKIN VS OBI WAN! ADD IT BACK RIGHT THIS INSTANT! The reasoning is even more stupid, “Yoda decides that only Luke and the rebel alliance can defeat Palpatine”, that is bullshit! Yoda knows nothing about Luke and the rebel alliance yet, that’s how it’s supposed to be! AND DON’T GET ME STARTED ON REMOVING THE MEMES OF THIS MOVIE! REMOVING OBI WAN SAYING “I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND!” AND PALPATINE SAYING “DEW IT!” IS UTTER BULLSHIT, SURE THEY’RE SILLY, BUT THEY’RE GOOD SILLINESS! THEY’RE ICONIC! THEY’RE THE MEMES OF REVENGE OF THE SITH! WHICH IS THE REAL TITLE OF THIS MOVIE, NOT LABYRINTH OF EVIL, WHICH IS STUPID, REVENGE OF THE SITH IS REVENGE OF THE SITH, REVENGE OF THE SITH IS REVENGE OF THE SITH! YOU CAN’T MAKE THIS SHIT UP! YOUR EDITS MAKE THE SPECIAL EIDITON LOOK LIKE THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK BY COMPARSION, I HOPE YOU REALIZE YOUR MISTAKE, YOU ABSOLUTELY SUCK! AND DESERVE TO BE WIELDED BY A LIGHTSABER! YOU, ARE, THE REAL SITH LORD! FUCK YOU!
Bruh wtf is this 😂
In my most recent marathoning of the Star Wars movies, I’ve come to the conclusion that besides the lightsaber fight this movie is perfect. Just saying this because I’ve been somewhat critical in the past, I’ve always known it’s a great movie but I didn’t like it as much as ESB or ROTJ. But now I’ve come to realize that this movie is basically perfect and retract any criticism I’ve ever made of it.
damn bruh that’s fucking brutal
I can’t speak for Mocata, Screams In The Void or others. For me it was nonsense because it was so poorly executed and poorly shown in ROTS, and I believe there were other better ways to have Anakin fall to the dark side. You think so too in creating this thread and your opening post: “Anakin’s turn to the dark side wasn’t structured the best in the Prequels.”
We’re talking about ideas here, not the execution. They (and you) were saying that the idea of Anakin wanting to turn to the dark side to cheat death is a fundamentally bad idea. That was my argument that it’s not.
I do not care too much for what Lucas said later, because if he needs to explain things afterwards he likely did not do a good job explaining them on screen at the time. Lucas is also not a reliable person to listen to so I do not take his words seriously as some others do, even as the creative genius behind all of this. I do like to listen to creatives talk about their work and intentions, what worked and what didn’t, but in the end what matters is what happens on screen.
As others say “show, don’t tell”.
And again, I was just discussing the idea of Anakin turning to the dark side 'cause he wants the power to cheat death, and not how it was executed on screen.
Also Lucas is only “unreliable” when he’s lying about things as they were depicted in the special editions or prequels always being the intent even when he was making the original trilogy even when there’s evidence against it. This quote is from The Making of Revenge of the Sith in which he has no reason to lie because it was literally from when the film was released.
Everybody has lied in their life, you can’t just dismiss everything everyone says as a lie because they’ve lied before. You have to look at the reason why they did it and see if it applies.
I don’t see how the “finding the secret to prevent death” is nonsense considering mortality is a big theme to the films. Force ghosts? “I’ve become more powerful then you can possibly imagine?”. Luke saying to Yoda that he can’t die and Yoda responding that that is the way of things?
As Lucas said, the epitome of greed is the desire to cheat death. The Sith are defined by being greedy and selfish. There’s nothing more greedy then wanting to take away a fundamental aspect of the nature of living things because you can’t accept the natural course of life. Therefore, it makes sense that the ultimate goal of the Sith is immortality. Having Anakin’s turn be about cheating death creates a nice retroactive arc when Vader accepts his death in ROTJ (“Nothing can stop that now”).
It’s an inherently fantastical concept, but this is Star Wars. The Force and lightsabers and stuff. Star Wars has mythological architypes all over the place, and mortality is a huge theme in all mythology. It was literally created to be a modern myth.
I do like the idea of Anakin becoming addicted to using his own anger in combat though, as well as wanting to control the galaxy using the dark side as he sees it’s more effective. That should be a part of his arc.
Also, in my opinion, I hate the idea of pinning the blame on the Jedi. Darth Vader should be a villain with agency who made his own choices. Palpatine should contribute and manipulate him, but it should ultimately be because of his choices. One of the reasons Walter White is so compelling is because he made his own choices. If it was just “Poor Walt, he has no choice but to cook meth, he just needs to provide for his family”, he’d become a weak and pathetic villain. Don’t strip Darth Vader of all his power by just pinning the blame on everyone around him.
Anakin’s turn to the dark side wasn’t done very well. Lucas insisted on starting Anakin as a child, and it takes until the 3rd movie for him to be a heroic Jedi Knight. Anakin’s ultimate reason for turning is also weak, as he blindly believes Palpatine’s claims that the dark side can cheat death with no evidence, and his personality is too unlike the cold, collected wrath of Vader from the OT.
My inspiration for my rewrite was two masterpieces: Breaking Bad and The Godfather Part I and II. Both Walter White and Michael Corleone have shared points that help make their descent feel gradual and organic.
The Godfather Part I and II and Breaking Bad SPOILERS AHEAD
Breaking Bad and The Godfather Parts 1 and 2 SPOILERS OVER.
From here, it’s pretty easy to create an arc for Anakin becoming Darth Vader, once you come up with a motivation and backstory.
1. Backstory - Anakin is a 19 year old slave on Tatooine discovered by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. He developed a cold, hardened personality when afraid, angry, or aggressive (like Vader). He is still a kind, good, passionate person. The Jedi get him freed, but not in time to save his dying mother. Obi-Wan stops Anakin from enacting revenge on the Tuskins. They bring Anakin to the Council. At first they reject him, but after Qui-Gon’s death, they bring him in. Anakin develops a close friendship with Obi-Wan and a relationship with Padme.
2. Moral High Point - Anakin, under Obi-Wan’s mastership, has become a kind, courageous, loyal, swashbuckling Jedi Knight with a close friendship with Obi-Wan. His cold mask has almost deteriorated, and he’s well-loved by his Jedi family.
3. The Catalyst - Anakin receives visions of Padme dying. He goes to Yoda for help. Yoda says that he should do what he can to prevent it but he needs to accept it if he can’t, and that death is a natural part of life.
3. Desperate Decision - Anakin learns that the Sith’s ultimate goal has always been to cheat death from Palpatine. He gets access to ancient Sith holocrons from the Jedi archives, breaking the rules (he has to be a Master, and he’s only a Knight). He finds a holocron from Plagueis but can’t open it yet. He learns that he must indulge into the dark side in order to achieve the power to cheat death.
As such, he starts using the dark side in combat, and is more brutal. He finds this more effective, and is thrilled by the feeling of power. The cold mask of Vader is put on once again.
4. First Dark Deed - Anakin force chokes a POW for information and murders a Separatist commander, Admiral Trench, in cold blood.
5. Chance at Redemption - Anakin is horrified at what he did, feels guilty, and stops using the dark side. Yoda is right: he should do his best to save her, but if he can’t, he must accept her mortality and enjoy his time with her before her passing.
6. Redemption Destroyed - Anakin once again receives a vision of Padme dying, but he also sees a premonition of himself burning in lava and assumes it’s a depiction of his death.
7. Full Commitment to the Dark Path - Anakin regresses to using the ancient Sith holocrons. He tells himself he’s doing it for Padme and that he won’t become a Sith. He’ll just use the dark side to gain the power to cheat death, and after that will go back to the light side.
The truth is, he’s using it because he can’t stand the pain of losing Padme, and to become immortal himself. He’s addicted to the dark side. Just as Walter White finally admitted, “I did it for me”.
8. Gradual Descent to Further Darkness - Anakin uses the dark side consistently on missions, coldly and ruthlessly. He ends conflicts swiftly and effectively, and thus, sees the dark side as superior. He loves the dark side’s power, and is now the warlord obsessed with order from the OT.
He assassinates a rival politician to Palpatine after being told they’re corrupt. Anakin accepts Sith ideology and supports Palpatine’s politics. Palpatine props up Anakin as a war hero constantly, further feeding his ego and gaining his allegiance. The Council notices Anakin’s behavior and tries to reach out to him, but he refuses. He tries multiple times to open Plagueis’ holocron, but because he basically lives a double life, he isn’t submerged in the dark side enough to do so.
Anakin kills Count Dooku, and a fellow Jedi witnesses it. They realize that he killed the politician too and tell him that they’ll tell the Council, and to prevent it, he kills them.
Anakin gets kicked from the Jedi Order after his secret marriage and usage of the dark side is exposed, for his own good. Council members including Obi-Wan frequently check up on him, but he’s too selfish to appreciate it.
9. Complete Monster - Palpatine tells Anakin that he’s a Sith Lord and that he cannot complete his dark side training without his help. He tells Anakin to become his apprentice, regain the holocrons, and then they can learn to cheat death together, combining their knowledge. As this is happening, the Jedi realize Palpatine is the Sith Lord and go to arrest him. Anakin kills the Jedi that go to arrest Palpatine, and fully commits to being a Sith Lord and Palpatine’s apprentice. He is finally knighted Darth Vader.
The rest of Revenge of the Sith mostly commences as is, except:
*Remove bum lines (“Love won’t save you Padme…”, “From my point of view the Jedi are evil!”).
*Padme dies because of Anakin’s force choke. Directly. She’s able to give birth beforehand, but dies in the medical bay.
*After Sidious tells Vader that Padme is dead, Vader asks about Plagueis’ holocron. Sidious tells Vader that it was destroyed by the Jedi, thus prompting Vader’s rampage.
*Instead of Vader’s pathetic “Nooooo”, it’s like the Canon Vader comics, with a ferocious, blunt “No” and force pushing Sidious towards a wall.
I incorporated ideas from my Anakin/Vader and Morality thread.
I hope you guys like my idea and I’m interested to hear yours.
At least George allowed Making Of books to be published and behind-the-scenes clips to be shown. Disney fired J.W. Rinzler.
Oh man, why’d they do that?
This lucas’s fault in the end leia having memories of padme is a plot hole that didn’t have to be. I know what he originally was going for before he decided to have padme die giving birth to Luke and leia. it was for Luke to be the one that gets to the know the father he never knew and leia to know the their mother each know one of their parents but revenge of the sith ruins that.
Yeah and? I never denied that lol
IMO the biggest problem with removing Padme’s death is how, if you watch it in chronological order, it doesn’t work. We’re left with Padme being alive and then she isn’t addressed for two whole films before it’s just unceremoniously said she died.
Btw please don’t intentionally make Mace Windu look like an asshole. I’m so sick of all the hate he gets already.
I mean, do whatever you want with your edit, but just a suggestion.
Btw please don’t intentionally make Mace Windu look like an asshole. I’m so sick of all the hate he gets already.
I mean, do whatever you want with your edit, but just a suggestion.
I agree, I’m excited.
That makes the part with the force ghosts at the end basically pointless and distracts from the main focal point of the scene, Luke saying goodbye to his father
Anakin would be a teenager when he meets Kenobi, with the reason he’s reluctant to leave home having to do with his mother’s delicate help or desperate quality of life rather than his being a child. He would already have a relationship with Owen Lars by this point, who could be either a relative or close friend. Owen would be vocal about his disagreement on Anakin leaving, but equally vocal about looking after his mother.
We would get onscreen exposition and/or a flashback about Darth Bane and the line of succession about the rule of two. We’d also get some basic information about why the Sith are bad and why it matters that they may resurface.
These are both excellent ideas.
Anakin’s fall to the dark side would not be predicated on saving her life, and would resemble Lucas’ ideas circa 1983.
What were his ideas back in 1983?
This all sounds really good. As time has gone on, I’ve started to think that the whole Chosen One prophecy is a bit of a narrative crutch. Anakin’s fall would have been more compelling if, instead of being a child of prophecy, Anakin is shown distinguishing himself through his good deeds and heroic acts. As the war would go on, the people of the Republic would look to him more and more as their champion. He’d become this symbol of hope to the galaxy, all while the war continues to traumatize and wear away at him, until he finally snaps under the pressure of watching everything crumble around him.
At the same time there’s something very compelling to me about the one destined to save the galaxy literally doing the opposite and being ultimately responsible for plunging it into darkness when he refuses his destiny, only to then turn back and fulfill his destiny after 23 years of being a monster. It’s a complete subversion of the trope. Are there any other Chosen One’s in fiction that literally become Satan’s right hand for 23 years?
“…instead of being a child of prophecy, Anakin is shown distinguishing himself through his good deeds and heroic acts.” Both is better. It makes it more tragic that he falls. He’s this super powerful being (Anakin/Vader being distinguished as incredibly powerful even among the Jedi has been around since ESB; Yoda says so) born with the potential to save the entire galaxy and he doesn’t.
If you wanna make someone’s fall from grace tragic, emphasize lost potential. Emphasize what could’ve been. Take Walter White in Breaking Bad (which was done way better then Anakin into Vader). One of the reasons it’s so tragic IMO is because Walt was a genius and if hadn’t left Grey Matter (or refused Elliot’s offer to come back) his life could’ve been amazing and he could’ve made a positive impact on the world. Instead he becomes a drug kingpin and a monster who loses everything and ruined so many people’s lives. Setting up Anakin as this guy who’s destined to destroy the Sith and be the ultimate hero only for him to screw up and become an evil cyborg who hates everything? Brilliant.
Also, Darth Vader being the prodigal son of the Force itself is awesome.
Honestly buying extra space on google drive isn’t that big of a deal, to me at least. It’s only $2 a month for 100 GB. I think it’s kinda inevitable for any fan-editor who uses it as their main.
Though I probably shouldn’t assume your financial situation.
Regarding Darth Vader’s added "No"s when he picks up the Emperor in the special edition, while I absolutely prefer him being quiet as in the theatrical cut, I feel like it wouldn’t bother me so much if the first one wasn’t there. The second one as he picks up the Emperor kinda feels at least a little organic. Again, it was still better quiet, but I don’t think it would destroy the scene as much. But the first one before he picks up the Emperor is just beyond cheesy and it just makes me wonder how the Emperor doesn’t hear him and turn around and start zapping him. It always just throws me out of the scene.
Just my thought as I rewatched the versions of the scene in comparison.
What’s conveyed by the writing, cinematography, editing, and cultural context > authorial intent.
This thread is entirely about whether it was George’s intentions or not. So that’s the discussion. Whether it was conveyed well isn’t the topic.
People will talk about how George was such a genius for making the Jedi Order ideologically flawed when that wasn’t his idea, and if you follow his intent they aren’t flawed in the ways people think. That wasn’t George’s idea, it’s yours.
Also no matter how well an intent was conveyed or not the authorial intent is still canon. If you decide to not watch the films from a different lens from what the author had in mind that’s your head canon, or fanon. Now obviously canon doesn’t matter to you and that’s totally cool. The issue is when someone talks about this re-interpretation of the Prequels as if it is canon.
The entire saga ends with this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7I5WPA3MUE
It turns out Nute Gunray was actually the chosen one, and he saves the entire galaxy by killing Sidious and bringing balance to the force.
Would there be any possible changes anybody could make to the Jedi Council scene wit Anakin to get George Lucas’ intent across better? What I mean by this is make it so it doesn’t seem like the Council is being critical of Anakin being afraid and moreso just trying to get him to admit it.
If you don’t know what I mean: https://www.tumblr.com/david-talks-sw/692126625024835584/going-over-anakin-the-council?source=share
Replace Yoda with Shrek throughout the whole saga
How are you gonna add characters like Boba Fett, General Verrs and Mas Amedda to the movie? Are they gonna be CG? Are you gonna have costumes and make-up? I’m intrigued.
If you do not mind me asking, are you planning to share your edit of ESB? It is okay to say no.
I’m definitely willing to share it, it’s not just something I’ve really shared yet because it’s a minor edit. I wanted to wait until others are finished to I could offer it in a sort of package deal.
It’s just Adywan’s ESB with the SE Wampa scene, “A Jedi Master who instructed me” from Hal9000, no Luke and Leia kisses and Temuera Morrison Boba voice using Hal’s edited versions of the lines, not the ones from the Blu-Ray. I mostly made it because I wanted a version of Revisited with the SE Wampa scene, but then I just did the other edits because they were simple.
Replace the Obi-Wan vs. General Grievous fight with this