G&G-Fan

It’s really simple: still 19 years just like in the prequels.

Vader is said to be instrumental in founding the Empire and killing the Jedi. Luke is 19. Whether Anakin and Vader are the same person or not, Anakin would need to be alive and on the light side 19 years ago so he can provide his part in Luke’s birth; BEFORE he’s “killed”/turns to the dark side. It’s kinda just simple math.

Unless Vader conceived of Luke while he was a Sith lord, but there’s OT dialogue that contradicts that (“…if Anakin had any offspring…”). Plus the sequence of events wouldn’t make any sense; I don’t see Luke ending up under the supervision of Obi-Wan if he was conceived while Vader is evil, he’d absolutely end up with the Empire.

I’m mainly going to go with things that can’t be easily fan-edited, rather things that’d require rewriting and filming

TPM: Make Anakin’s slave life appear more abusive and miserable, and show he has more trauma from it
AOTC: Include an opening scene with Anakin and Obi-Wan on a mission showing their normal friendlier relationship before it becomes more tenuous (because Anakin’s nervous due to meeting Padme for the first time in 10 years)
ROTS: Include parts from the novelization that emphasize Anakin’s stress and sleep deprivation (due to his nightmares) and Palpatine’s political manipulation of him
ANH: Vader’s in charge from the start and his portrayal is exactly like ESB; every Imperial officer but Tarkin is terrified of him
ESB: No Luke and Leia kiss
ROTJ: Add a scene before Vader defies the Emperor’s orders and goes to his throne room where Vader has a brief fight with the red royal guards; he easily force chokes them and tosses them aside

SparkySywer said:

Moving his turn earlier doesn’t necessarily mean the ending is nothing but killing Jedi. A more convincing arc could’ve been:

1. Set Anakin up as a hero

2. Anakin succumbs to the dark side

3. Anakin’s friends fail to pull him back to the light

I mean, there’s more to it then that. There’s also character development for Vader delving into his psyche and showing his adjustment to becoming a cyborg monster. Basically, the stuff in the 2017 Vader comics (which IMO are a masterpiece). Just thinking about a movie adapting Vader bleeding his kyber crystal and the Fortress Vader arc gets me giddy.

I don’t see how this is better then having Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones (tho improved, obvs), then a Clone Wars movie to really show Anakin’s heroics, then Revenge of the Sith and then a Vader movie. I think that Anakin having a traumatic past and a hard time letting go of people he cares about (due to his mother’s death) is fantastic and adds dimension to his character.

Buzz Lightyear said:

People are too obsessed with the idea of trilogies. Honestly they should have never bothered numbering the Star Wars movies at all, and should have just filled things in with whatever movies they wanted to make. So like, for instance, they could have just made a bunch of movies about young Anakin at different stages of his life, or about other characters in that time period (which could feature Anakin as a supporting character or guest character), and we wouldn’t know the exact one where Anakin would turn to the dark side, but we would see the gradual transition. And then a later movie could just be about him hunting down Jedi. Others could be about other characters, like Obi Wan.

I mean that’s eventually what the Star Wars meta narrative evolved into, when you factor in Clone Wars and all the standalone movies and Disney Plus shows. There’s no reason they couldn’t have just written things that way in the first place, instead of forcing the prequels and sequels to mirror the OT.

Honestly, this.

While I think it would’ve been great to have a movie of just Darth Vader killing Jedi, all three of the prequels have important concepts to show. The Phantom Menace is more necessary then people think. It shows Anakin’s past trauma as a slave and introduces his relationship with his mother which is a huge part of his turn to the dark side, as well as introducing his strained relationship with the Jedi council. These shouldn’t be in flashbacks because as explained here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD2G0D-nyLA), flashbacks aren’t a part of the Star Wars format. It also shows how Palpatine became chancellor (that shouldn’t happen off-screen, Palpatine’s rise to power is literally the other half of the point of the prequels, that’d be like if Anakin turning to Vader was off-screen) and the corruption in the Senate. Just jumping into Attack of the Clones doesn’t work, unless you combine their plots together somehow.

I would do a saga like this:
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
A Clone Wars movie (using elements from EU novels and both Clone Wars series)
Revenge of the Sith
A movie with Darth Vader hunting surviving Jedi and the foundations of the empire
A movie adapting the Fortress Vader comic arc
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi

Has anybody thought of using Liam Neeson voice AI to have Qui-Gon explain what the force is to Anakin like Obi-Wan did to Luke in ANH for chronological viewing sake?

I love a lot of ideas here. Cutting the entire negotiation at the beginning does seem to be a common thing tho which I don’t think would be best since it’s the only thing that shows what the Jedi’s main job is supposed to be (diplomats that are meant to resolve conflicts, hence why Mace says they’re “keepers of the peace, not soldiers”). I don’t see why so many people dislike it since it basically just turns into an action sequence, it’s not like you actually see the negotiation. I understand cutting down the opening act a bit since I do agree it goes on for a bit too long but I think removing that they’re there to negotiate wouldn’t be best.

Is the new version of this edit still in the making?

There’s some really great edit ideas here! I love what you did with Vader in the conference room, giving him more authority by having him not be undermined by Tarkin and giving him the last word at the end of the scene, though I much prefer “I find your lack of faith disturbing” to the new line you gave him when he force chokes Motti. I also love the addition of the death troopers.

Also removing “ancient” is another good change. People blame the prequels for it not making sense but it never made sense even in the original trilogy context, because it’s said that Vader was the one that eradicated the Jedi, but it’s not like the Jedi could’ve been eradicated more then 19 years ago since Vader would’ve had to have been alive to contribute his part to Luke’s birth (who was born 19 years ago) and I highly doubt the original trilogy intended to imply that Vader got laid and conceived Luke when he had already turned to the dark side.

One suggestion I’d give is to remove all of the times Luke crushes on Leia. With the knowledge that they’re twins it’s… uncomfortable.

I will say though that removing the torture droid is just weird and the scene doesn’t make any sense without it. You’d have to heavily alter the way it’s paced in order for it to work and end it with a new shot of Vader reaching his hand out or force choking or something otherwise nobody is going to have any idea what’s happening.

Yes

Anjohan said:

I’m trying something on a whim here, and I am interested in whether this approach is working or not.

https://streamable.com/gov9qd

I am simply trying to create better conversations and some humour between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. I think the first portion works very well (up until “is going to be the death of me”), and the latter about 80%.

I’m trying to achieve a few things through this dialogue:

• Obi-Wan is inpatient and a little whiny, much like most Padawans are (Anakin will be). But with decent humour and irony.
• A little gab at the original film premise (diplomatic mission)
• Obi-Wan hating the planet, that he will once end up living on
• Qui-Gon trying to keep his Padawan’s mind focused on the Force and the ways of the Jedi.

I quite like the witty banter, the voice work is very convincing too.

I do kind of find it odd that Qui-Gon calls a diplomatic mission boring considering it’s literally the Jedi’s main job, but I can’t say I didn’t laugh.

I can’t watch it, it says it can’t be supported when I try to open the video file with Movies & TV.

I can see why they didn’t do it, a bit too violent for a Jedi

Possessed did a pretty good job editing the movie as it is to make it look like Luke is the one that pushes Boba into the Sarlacc

mad respect for the effort, I look forward to the result

your version of Boba Fett’s voice is probably going to be my definitive one

Anakin Starkiller said:

I thought “I’m not ready for a relationship” is just something people made up to avoid having to simply say no.

It usually is. Don’t hold out hope. Move on.

I was going to tell you that “I’ll get back to you” is a “No” but I didn’t want to be negative on the “Good news” thread.

That can be true sometimes, like the whole “the Jedi order was corrupt” thing (the Jedi are allowed to love, according to Lucas, what’s wrong is attachments, or possessive love), but a lot of prequel defenses can also literally be things from the films and what Lucas has said. Like David-Talks-SW on Quora (who I’ve actually learned a lot from), all of his answers are from Lucas and the films. Like what I said about Anakin’s turn. There are many quotes from George, which you can even hear if you listen to the commentary, that say that Anakin was just really scared to lose Padme, it was because of his fear of loss, he had a tendency to give into his darker emotions in his personal situations, that the whole “the Jedi are evil thing” is really just him rationalizing his actions, that him becoming a Sith is intentionally framed like a pact with the devil, etc. Here’s one for example:

“You can love people, but you can’t want to possess them. They’re not yours. Accept that they have a fate. Even those you love most are going to die. You can’t do anything about that. Protect them with your lightsaber, but if they die they were going to die. There’s nothing you can do. All you can do is accept that fact.
In mythology if you go to Hades to get them back, you’re not doing it for them, you’re doing it for yourself. You’re doing it because you don’t want to give them up. You’re afraid to be without them. The key to the Dark Side is fear. You must be clean of fear, and fear of loss is the greatest fear. If you’re set up for fear of loss, you will do anything to keep that loss from happening, and you’re going to end up in the Dark Side.”

I’ll admit I’ve been wrong sometimes (like when I said Yoda changed between the prequels and the originals; he didn’t, he was just put in a no-win situation by Palpatine: https://www.quora.com/Did-Yoda-realize-what-went-wrong-with-the-Jedi-What-did-he-do-to-make-sure-his-mistakes-were-not-repeated/answer/David-Talks-SW?ch=17&oid=290173934&share=cc3d380b&srid=RmE0J&target_type=answer) but I’ve learned a lot more about the prequels and I still stand by everything I said here (and on other things like my “OT Vader is emotional” and midichlorians thread).

No they weren’t. Also, “tricks”? That’s a weird label to put on someone else’s opinion and perspective. I’m sharing my much more positive perspective on the prequels because I think they’re great. It isn’t deception.

And TCW Anakin is exactly like ROTS Anakin before his nightmare, down to his confidence in battle and flying, his tendency to give into his darker emotions, and rapport with Obi-Wan.

TCW wasn’t Dave Filoni’s pet project, it’s George Lucas vision. It’s as much of a child of Lucas as it is Filoni, if not more so.

He killed children once he became Vader, once he turned to the dark side. If we’re counting Vader’s actions, then Vader in the original trilogy was complacent in the destruction of an entire planet, killed his best friend and mentor, and tortured Han and Leia. And Luke is AWARE of those things. Luke isn’t ignorant to the fact that his father did horrible things and became a monster, he wants his father to return to who he once was, the guy we see at the beginning of ROTS.

And yes, Anakin was a good person deep down: https://qr.ae/pGDxjU

And if you’re talking about the Tuskin Raiders, those monsters abducted and tortured a random women and killed 26 of the 30 people who went out to save her, and those Tuskin children were going to grow up to become just like the murderous adults. He basically just killed baby Hitler. And even then Anakin KNEW what he did was wrong. We also see them shooting innocent podracers and trying to kill Luke when he did nothing wrong. I’m surprised so many OT fans stick up for the Tuskin Raiders when your first impression of them was trying to kill the beloved protagonist of the OT.

BedeHistory731 said:

Nah. If it’s a twist, it’s a very hacky twist. The movie still rushes Anakin’s fall and the series suffers for it. Besides, ESB is in the middle again (five out of nine movies - close enough).

It’s almost as if a twist is a sudden change of events or something.

It “rushes” it because that’s what happened: Anakin gave into his fatal flaw and made a terrible mistake because he was scared, desperate, and sleep-deprived. His fear of loss was built up over the past two movies, and we also saw him kill Dooku in the beginning, showing that he’s willing to give into his anger. We see throughout the films that Anakin has a character flaw of giving into his fear and anger and obsessing over things rather than being willing to let things go. Instead of letting go of his anger and not killing the Tuskins and Dooku for what they did to his mother and him, he gave into his anger. Instead of having faith and trusting in Padme that she’ll get through childbirth, instead of being willing to let her go instead of destroying everything she believed in, he gave into his fear and craved power. It’s a tendency and flaw in his character that finally broke him.

Also, was talking about Lucas’ saga.

BedeHistory731 said:

That’s not tension, that’s just lessening the experience of the OT. Again, preserving twists makes the reveal all the more of an emotional shock in the final two movies of the trilogy (or saga, depending on your perception). Knowing it all along just doesn’t feel right.

Yes it is tension. You’re just clinging onto the way you saw the film as a child and refusing to see it from any other perspective.

Anakin becoming Vader is the new twist of the saga though. Because when you watch it in order, it happens in the middle and is literally the turning point of the saga. ESB is no longer in the middle like it was during the original trilogy. At the beginning of ROTS it seems Anakin has overcome his flaws (because he’s happy, mature, and has a good rapport with Obi-Wan during the rescue of the Chancellor)… only for him to succumb to his Achilles’ heal (not being able to let things go).

Trying to hide that Anakin is Vader is stupid and would damage the prequels. Like, you’re literally losing the best scenes of the prequels. The Knighting of Vader, the immolation scene, and Vader getting his suit give me goosebumps. If anything I’d be more in favor of hiding that Luke is Anakin’s son and framing it like he’s the Lars son or the son of some other Jedi Master, maybe even Obi-Wan, but even that is dumb.

I’d argue that knowing that Luke and Leia are Vader’s children but none of them know adds TENSION, you’re wondering when they’ll learn the truth and what the consequences of that will be. How will Luke react when he finds out Vader is his father, and that the man he thought he could trust most lied to him? Because unlike what JJ Abrams thinks, surprises are not the most important thing in storytelling (or the only important thing, for that matter).

Also regarding Yoda I’d argue that it’d initially make people wonder “Why’s Yoda acting like this… this is weird”.

Omni said:

Yep. That’s the only reason I’m very strongly against SE Emperor - I don’t mind the makeup or the altered dialogue that much in general - but “offspring of Anakin Skywalker” kills it for me. It makes infinitely more sense for us to learn that name in an intimate moment with Luke and Ben, after Yoda passes and confirms Luke’s greatest fear. It’s a very deep and delicate scene, perfect for us to learn his name. And, of course, if you miss it, Luke says it to Vader in his face later on, also a good moment.

I suppose in the context of the PT, which is what the 2004 SEs were for, it makes more sense for the Emperor to say that than just “Luke Skywalker”, but looking at the OT as a trilogy, that’s a no no.

Almost like George Lucas designed the saga so the prequels are meant to be watched first or something…

Empire Strikes Back is completely normal except this is edited in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBbTb1ZX6WA

I don’t get it

SparkySywer said:

epic reveal: Vader was on weed the whole time

removed

That guy with no name said:

here: https://mega.nz/file/CUhVESiI#lPKuRL1e-OWHJu9c0Zh6BzNDiDYzvp0LkOYimB61RCY

I feel like this would kinda diminish the surprise of seeing it in Empire.

It’d be nice if I could stream it on like google drive or something. I downloaded it but my computer wasn’t able to play it (it’s able to play 1080p but not 4K).