I don’t know if your still thinking of doing this but I left the stuff I think would be nice. Personally I’ve never been a hater of this movie. It’s just the Jar Jar antics (not enven the character himself) that annoy me. As well as the midichlorian stuff and a few of Anakin’s childish outbursts.
Then this edit isn’t for you.
Anakin being with Padme while he’s a Jedi is inherently wrong because Anakin’s married to the Order. It’s a commitment.
Close relationships are allowed. Masters and their padawans are very close. Tiplar and Tipler were sisters and loved each other. Obi-Wan outright says, he loved Anakin as a brother. Also it’s not like Yoda or Obi-Wan said he couldn’t be friends with Han or Leia, they just warned him that his feelings were/could be manipulated.
Loving everyone equally is not what it’s about. Luke didn’t love Vader equally as much as he loved Han and Leia, but he still did.
But the prequels portray this poorly as the Jedi are so flat and boring, nor does Lucas ever dive into his ideology more then, “Let go of your attachments, Anakin”.
Bro really just hated on Buddhism, that’s kinda racist
Also if you actually took the time to learn the Buddhist principle of non-attachment you’d learn it’s basic common sense.
“The Buddhist concept of non-attachment is a constructive way to approach relationships. Here, attachment refers to an attempt to control things that you can’t control. When you try to grasp or control something outside of yourself, this causes suffering for yourself and the other person.”
I’m not one of those people who thinks we should just accept everything Lucas says in regards to Star Wars, our interpretations are just as valid, but I do want to add this in here:
“The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that [Anakin] cannot hold onto things, which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn’t willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he’d have been taken in his first years and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn’t have this particular connection as strong as it is and he’d have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them.”
(Also I cut this quote short because it’s extremely long. But if anyone is curious to what he says next I can post it. The point Lucas is getting at is: Attachment=bad. Jedi not acting on attachments=good. Love=/=attachment. Jedi have no issue with love. And Anakin fell because he didn’t listen to Jedi philosophy.)
I actually really like many of the ideas Lucas is presenting in all these behind the scenes interviews about the prequels and whatnot, but its a shame its not conveyed as well in the films.
I agree with this completely. I was talking about Filoni’s interpretation of the prequels. Which most people in the Star Wars fanbase accept. Lucas’ idea about the Jedi teachings being right is good.
I don’t like how Lucas portrayed Anakin’s fall either, but I’d rather have him be an idiot who blindly believe Palpatine’s claim about cheating death then blaming the Jedi. At least it’s still a selfish power hungry motivation and kinda being “seduced by the power of the dark side”, even if he’s idiotically tricked into becoming evil.
I hate the Filoniverse. The worshipping of Ahsoka and Qui-Gon, the hate on the Jedi like Obi-Wan, Yoda and Mace Windu, and how it’s warped the fanbase into believing that the prequels are actually a super brilliant critique on the Jedi Order. I love The Mandalorian and (some of) The Clone Wars, but still.
Not only is that Filoni’s interpretation not Lucas’ but Vader’s fate being based on a duel he wasn’t in when he was 9 and implying his turn is the Jedi’s fault is so fucking stupid.
We were told Vader was seduced to the dark side, not that he was a poor baby victim of bad Jedi teachings.
We were also told the Jedi were in their prime before the Empire.
It’s like blaming Walter White becoming Heisenberg on Hank.
Yeah, but like… nobody wants to see this. And there’s no reason Anakin had to be written this way. Lucas decided to portray the Jedi as a weird cult that suppresses familial bonds and romantic attachments, but there’s no reason they had to be written that way. I always imagined Anakin as this well-adjusted, somewhat brash ace pilot. Not “roguish” like Han Solo, but just confident and principled. Yeah, it’s just my personal preference, but I would argue that this portrayal would benefit the story way more than what we got, because the entire point of Anakin’s arc is that he was supposed to be a good man who fell from grace. But the Prequels instead portray him as this emotionally unstable hormone explosion with homicidal tendencies from the very moment we first meet him. (Not counting Episode 1, which features an entirely different Anakin.)
The funny thing is that the Jedi aren’t actually supposed to be that, Lucas just makes them look that way because they’re written in the most boring, flat way possible and he never explains what he means by “attachment” (which is the Buddhist definition, the inability to let go of things).
Also hard agree there. Not only was Vader clearly not an explosive character, thus creating disconnect, but he’s also just not likable at all. Your audience needs to care about your main character to get invested in their arc.
Lucas seemed to think that portraying Anakin initially as this cherubic, innocent little child would produce such a stark contrast with Vader as to sufficiently fulfill the “fall from grace” narrative. Except the whole point of a “fall from grace” narrative is to track the character transformation as it plays out via personal choices. A little kid doesn’t even have a brain developed enough to make any dramatically interesting choices.
Bingo. If someone peaked when they were 10 then there’s literally nothing to save. They’re not a good person at all. Hell you can even be a mean kid who steals the other kids toys and pulls the girl’s hair and then be really mature and well-adjusted as a teen and adult. Nobody gives a shit, the first 12 years of your life are basically just a free trial.
Michael Corleone would have been a useful model when writing Anakin, in a broad sense. I wouldn’t want Anakin to be as serious or as emotionally reserved - I mean it’s a Star Wars movie, it needs to be snappy and upbeat most of the time. But Michael Corleone provides a good template for the general arc required here - somebody that makes a series of individual choices, initially with honorable intentions, but slowly becomes more and more of a monster. Michael Corleone activates full Sith mode when he kills his brother-in-law and then coldly lies about it to his widowed sister.
Yep, and Michael also has that cold, collected, commanding demeanor that Vader has. He’s like the perfect template to to the point where I can’t help but think there wasn’t some inspiration from him when OT Vader was written. Coppola and Lucas were great friends after all.
I do think “he’s just not a good guy” could be a potentially interesting route, but I’m worried that it would lead to Vader’s redemption not really feeling earned. If he was always a psychotic narcissist deep inside, is it really a “redemption”, or just a deathbed conversion?
My ideal take on Anakin’s turn would combine a desire for power with the “save Padme” thing from the original movie. He starts out with seemingly noble intentions (although his real motivations are more narcissistic), but the more dark things he does in his wife’s name, the more he realizes how good the dark side feels. By the end, he’s become fully mad with power, to the point where he makes his visions come true by choking his wife to death, and doesn’t even realize the irony of it afterwards.
No matter what, though, the “Palpatine gaslights Anakin into thinking the Jedi are evil” plotline has to go. It’s possibly the worst aspect of the original movie. Anakin should be an intelligent person who was seduced by attachment and the promise of power, not a moron who fell for the most obvious lie in the history of the galaxy.
I agree with this 100%. This this this. All about this.
Vader does love the dark side in the OT. He loves punishing those he hates, even Imperials like Motti, Ozzel and Needa. He even makes sadistic jokes about it. But deep down he does have guilt because there’s a good person buried deep down. He just keeps giving into his lust for the power of the dark side and his hatred.
Funnily enough ANH Luke still feels more like someone that could become OT Vader then AOTC Anakin.
That cold angry stare when witnessing his uncle and aunt’s deaths feels like how a younger Vader would react to the death of a loved one. Luke was even able to stay collected and focused after the loss of his best friend.
It isn’t just based on the quote lol, it’s also based on the very clear fact that the Vader we got has elements of Kane’s character, who was the father of the character who’d become Luke, a rogue Jedi (Vader is a Jedi turned Sith), and a cyborg.
none of the links work
First of all, I’m not claiming that Kane and General Vader were combined into one character in the early drafts, nor did I ever say that. I’m saying that the Vader we ended up getting post-ESB is basically a combination of those two characters (though from your previous post it seems he was also combined with Prince Valorum). Vader always being Luke’s father is technically correct as the current character of Vader is basically half Kane, who was a rogue Jedi cyborg and father of Annikin (Luke). There’s even the part where Kane sacrifices himself to save the heroes, just like ROTJ Vader.
Second of all, I think it’s very obvious that Lucas is talking about Kane and not Annikin in that quote. He likely mixed them up. As I already said.
Just a random comment, but I don’t really get it when people say Obi-Wan should’ve been the protagonist of the prequels instead of Anakin. Obi-Wan’s a great character, but if executed well, Anakin’s arc is easily way more interesting.
It feels like making Hank Schrader the protagonist of Breaking Bad instead of Walt.
What I said was really simple. The Darth Vader we know and love today is basically Kane Starkiller and General Vader combined into one character. Kane was a rogue Jedi cyborg and Annikin Starkiller’s father (who became Luke). Darth Vader in the original drafts was simply a general for the empire. The final incarnation of Darth Vader is second in command of the emperor, a Sith lord who broke away from the Jedi, a cyborg, and Luke Skywalker’s father.
So yes, from a certain point of view, Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. Or at least, there was always an element of “rogue Jedi cyborg is the protagonists dad”.
I’m assuming when Lucas said it was about Annikin and his kids, he probably either misspoke, mixed up the characters, or he said that for convenience because he didn’t want to have to go on and explain who Kane was.
Regarding the thing about Vader always being Luke’s father, I found some info about why Lucas might have said this.
Originally, in the very early drafts, there were two characters. Kane Starkiller/Akira Valor/The Starkiller, a half-machine/half-man and Jedi-in-hiding, who is the father of the main character Annikin Starkiller (who’d later go on to be Luke Skywalker). And Darth Vader, a general for the Empire. The two characters later became combined into one.
George Lucas said:
“Well, to be very honest with you, when I wrote the very very first script it was about Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, uh, he was a rogue Jedi, and there were remnants of that [draft] that found its way into the final Star Wars.”
-MovieFone Unscripted, 2005
So from a certain point of view, Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. It was just discarded but then we ended up getting something that more resembled the original idea.
I like rearranging it so Anakin feeling slighted by the Council and being told to betray Palpatine before the dream so they have weight in his fall. Emphasizing Anakin’s authoritarian political beliefs and a genuine lust for power beyond just saving Padme is, IMO, really the only way to make Anakin’s fall somewhat work with just a fan-edit, without a full rewrite (which would be ideal, but you can’t really watch it). It makes him feel more like the same person as Darth Vader from the OT.
It would be really beneficial if you tried to make a point of Anakin being addicted to the dark side and basically subconsciously looking for an excuse to fall, kinda like Walter White. Having the dream be more of the straw that broke the camels back then the sole reason makes it slightly more believable that he would commit genocide over it.
Bro really just reduced The Godfather, a cinematic masterpiece, to “a mafia movie”. 💀
Also socially awkward nervous teenagers don’t speak in weird Shakespearean poetry.
General Grievous.
Hey Jar Jar Binks was an awful character, can you guys come up with something even worse?
Nah General Grievous is kinda one of the better parts of the movie IMO. He’s a cowardly mustache twirling baddie and I love em. He funni
I’m like one of the few people who prefers that portrayal. Just making him “cold badass cyborg Jedi slayer with tragic backstory” is too much like Darth Vader. Let Vader be Vader and the other villains stick out.
I posted elsewhere that when writing the PT George Lucas should have used Michael Corleone as the basis for young Anakin Skywalker.
Based, I wanna see that now.
Between ROTS and ESB Yoda ran a ketamine drug ring with Shaggy, Kermit the Frog, Shrek, Joe Swanson, and Barack Obama.
I have a lot of nostalgia for this film and still find it really entertaining for how spectacular it is, but it’s not held up. I used to be one of those “ROTS is ESB tier” people, but I’ve come to accept more of the flaws of the film.
The biggest problem is Anakin’s rushed turn. It’s a good starting point, but Anakin just blindly believes Palpatine’s word about cheating death and betrays everybody he loves. Not to mention, he’s still not enough like OT Darth Vader for most of it.
The movie is better in separated portions. The last half, from Anakin being Knighted Vader (such a chilling scene, even if not earned) to the ending is actually quite stellar. It’s easy for me to got lost in the apocalyptic imagery and operatic music. I like the first half too, especially the opening. But the problem is, they shouldn’t be the same movie.
The first half should be the beginning of the second movie, the second half should be the last half of the third movie. There should be a whole movie in-between exploring Anakin’s turn, having him gradually be seduced by the dark side via the usage of Sith holocrons or something. Have him lose himself more and more in the war. Then have him turn.
But this is what happens when you spend a movie with Anakin as a child and then another with him on a romantic vacation I guess.
I do think this movie is genuinely better then the other two though in some ways. The characterization and pacing is far better. It feels a lot more alive. Obi-Wan is a great character. Then you have Ian McDiarmid too, who’s amazing.
So overall this movie is flawed but enjoyable for me. Not OT level, but fun.
Don’t forget the trademark belt grip.
I wanna see that so bad now.
Michael Corleone from The Godfather is a better young Darth Vader then the actual young Darth Vader.
The Prequels miss so much of the nuance that made Vader so great in the OT. His sadistic humor, his boldness, his cold, domineering presence, how calculating he was. In the Prequels, he’s a hot-head that flies off the handle. OT Vader got mad, but he wielded it like a blunt weapon. OT Vader is like Michael Corleone, but PT Anakin is like Sonny Corleone (at least in terms of temper; Sonny was never intolerably whiny). And that doesn’t mix. They’re two different characters.
If you really are that invested in Star Wars to begin with, then what’s stopping you from WANTING to learn more about it?
But I do read and watch supplemental material. But that doesn’t mean the original movie shouldn’t stand on it’s own.
You might as well say the same about “The Clone Wars.” How else would we have known about the ultimate fate of Sifo-Dias, and why the clones did a complete 180 on their loyal Jedi generals so suddenly?
The Prequels relying on The Clone Wars for important plot details (and important character development) is also bad.
The Prequels are just as guilty of overreliance on supplementary material as the Sequels are.