G&G-Fan

Channel72 said:

Man, I wish I had the same reaction. After I saw so many positive reactions to ROTS I wanted to give the movie another chance. But when I tried rewatching it like around 2 years ago, it just came off as hopelessly flawed.

I feel that man, with other stuff. I want to love the Obi-Wan show. It’s Obi-Wan and Darth Vader, I should like it. But they didn’t do them justice, and it’s hard, but eventually you have to come to terms with your own feelings, and you have.

I’m happy to admit that most of my enjoyment for ROTS is that, and nostalgia, it was my fav as a kid. I think it’s quality wise better then the other two Prequels, but it’s not a masterpiece like the OT (even ROTJ, fight me). I had my denial period, but it’s true, at least through the standard by which I judge media. It’s the difference between analyzing quality and emotional connection (tho the two coincide to a degree, but not wholly).

Channel72 said:

There were glimpses of chemistry between Anakin and Obi-Wan in the opening space battle scenes, but it was just way too little and way too late.

When watching the entire trilogy as a whole, I agree. When watching it in isolation, it’s fun, and I can ignore how the previous two failed them.

Channel72 said:

The middle segment of the movie is a CGI circus featuring a cartoon cyborg riding a unicycle while a cartoon lizard chases him.

I enjoy that part, and Grievous as a whole, ironically. It’s hilariously over the top. He’s my favorite of the Prequel villains (besides good ole Sheev) because he’s a meme. Even mundane lines like “Just as Count Dooku predicted” are a stitch. To the point where I prefer him over 2003 CW Grievous, who to me, is just a faster Vader. I’m a Darth Vader stan, I want my man to be unique. Nobody steals his thunder. I liked the approach Lucas was going for, making all 3 Prequel villains their own, but having one tie in to Vader (even if superficial) as foreshadowing. Neat idea.

Even though, like everything in the Prequels, Lucas needed that filter he had during the OT era (so it’s earnest, not corny), to a degree, Grievous fits with that moustache twirling villain vibe we see sometimes in the OT with Tarkin, Jabba, and even the Emperor (Lucas even said when making Grievous, to avoid making him too similar to Vader and the other two, wanted to make him more like the Emperor). When you really think about it, Vader is really the only OT villain with a lot of depth, but it works, that’s not a criticism. You can only shove so much in a script. And that’s one of the Prequels failings, they try to do too much. Too many protagonists, too many villains, too many plots. You can’t enjoy Dooku like you can Tarkin because it tries to develop him but doesn’t have time to do so in this bloated screenplay. He’s at his best when he gets to be just Dracula, and even then, he doesn’t get to do it too much. So that’s why Grievous, who’s literally just Dr. Evil and doesn’t try to be more, is the most enjoyable to me.

Channel72 said:

Anakin’s turn seemed paradoxically both too sudden and also predictable, because his entire arc was mostly incoherent and spastic. He already slaughtered an entire village in the previous movie, then reverted back to “good guy hero” mode, then immediately agreed to mass-murder children like an hour after we saw him having a fun adventure with Obi-Wan.

Once again, I agree with a lot of this in the logical part of my brain. The Anakin content in TPM and AOTC should’ve been combined, and his arc in ROTS should’ve been in two movies. A slow decent into the cold domineering Darth Vader we know and love from the OT, an emphasis on that addiction to power, the desire to cheat death to never feel pain of loss (and I’d also add not ever die), only to become Death’s Dragon, the Grim Reaper. A monster.

I see where Lucas was going, with the hot and cold thing. I’ve been there, even if nowhere near that extreme. Is it too extreme given the movie’s tight time frame? Yeah. But in social situations, where I’m scared, I can often be like that. I go from being confident and believing to being cold because I’m insecure and don’t want to be hurt. Though it’s worth mentioning, I’m a 21 y/o with ADHD (I went undiagnosed until April; I am on meds now). And those are situations with crushes or even sometimes platonic friends. What if it was a hypothetical wife about to die, when you’ve already watched your mother die in front of you, and blamed yourself?

The scenes work for me when I isolate them in my brain (even when watching the movie) to allow myself to feel the emotional effect. William’s score and Christensen’s acting work really well to convey that emotional distress, conflict and the cold, even if he sometimes got stuck with some bum material. That pathos connects with me on an deeply emotional level.

The way Darth Vader leans in so close when Han is being tortured always scares me. As if he’s savoring it.

To me, that comes off as it being personal. The guy doesn’t seem the type to care unless he does. Perhaps Vader recognizes Han as the one who sent him flying in ANH?

I’ve gone on rants on this site about some flaws of ROTS, but every time I rewatch it, I get swept up in emotion and really enjoy it. Not OT tier, but I genuinely think it’s well-constructed in some ways. The entire OT is a 10/10, ROTS is like a 7.

Esp Anakin’s turn. Like when you really think about it, it doesn’t make a lot of logical sense, and I’ve ranted about that on here before, but every time I watch it, with the exception of some iffy parts, it kinda works, bc maybe that’s the point. He was a very power hungry, passionate, fiery person. He was scared shitless, desperate, and made some really bad mistakes, burned within his own flame, and then became the cold Vader we see in the OT bc he lost everything, while still burning deep within. There are ways it could be done better (I still maintain that craving immortality should’ve been part of it, and it should’ve been spread over 2 movies instead of 1), but to a degree, elements of it still work. I think it’s bc I can be a really emotional person at times, I’ve done some really dumb stuff when it comes to women (tho obvs nowhere near that degree) that when I snap out of it I go, “Wow, really? That was really pathetic and stupid”, so I guess I kinda get it? Especially if it was a hypothetical wife of 3 years dying and I had gone through as much loss as him? Idk.

Lucas didn’t even intentionally characterize them as arrogant. They’re unprepared, complacent at worst.

He needed more script doctors.

I’d love it if someone made a fanedit of Revenge of the Sith where Anakin turns immediately after being denied the rank of master so it seems like the only reason he turns to the dark side and becomes a mass murdering psychopath is because he didn’t get a promotion.

He said it wouldn’t be in the HD version.

Patali said:

For me, this is something I am not a fan of and I think the show honestly handled better than the EU. The idea that Vader is a known public entity, honestly I found stupid. Vader should only be known to the top brass and generals on either side. I saw some comic where the Empire was literally putting him as a public propaganda face in holograms and such. I just don’t think it makes sense. He’s a hand of the Emperor who handles special assignments. Not just an Imperial. I think at the very most, he’d be in whispers of fearful soldiers who might have heard horror stories of a black armored, red lightsaber wielding wizard. To me that is more powerful than the Empire parading him around.

But, I know a lot of EU fans prefer that depiction, so hey, more power to them

Why is it stupid for Vader to be well-known? Scaring people into submission has always been the Empire’s tactic

everytime someone shares an unsharable google drive link an angel loses it’s wings

That just makes the movie even better

accidental double post

Caston said:

I’d like to still see that original finished cut of ROTS, before George reshot and re-edited it to focus on Anakin. I’ve just started reading The Secret History of Star Wars again and am looking forward to this section in the book.

This short article is worth reading for anyone interested in how ROTS ended up on screen (though the book goes into considerably more detail, IIRC): http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/theturn.html
 

Maybe we’ll get to see those unused shots on other story arcs and characters in a “50th anniversary box set” or something, along with many other unused shots or deleted scenes for all 11 of the main films?

I really like some ideas from the older version and dislike others.

The original conception of Anakin’s turn was that the darkside was slowly turning and corrupting his mind, like some kind of drug or virus. Anakin’s massacre of the Tusken Raiders was initially a pivotal point (in many other ways as well, as we will see later) because it gave him his first taste of this awesome power, and slowly but surely he would be drawn back to it. Thus, when Anakin struck down Mace (or Dooku, in the original conception), it was the consumation of a journey that began in Episode II. This is why the Emperor was sure Luke would fall in Return of the Jedi if he killed Vader out of hate–once you had tasted its power, it would be so irresistable that you would inevitably be drawn back to it, and slowly it would consume you, twisting your mind.

This is great, I love this idea. This is really what the center of Anakin’s turn to Vader should’ve been about: that addiction to the dark side. OT Vader boasted the power of the dark side so much, you’d think that’s the reason he turned.

I especially love how it retroactively makes Return of the Jedi even better by giving a previous example of how taking revenge, no matter how seemingly justified, can trap someone in the dark side.

I don’t like the idea that Anakin genuinely believes the Jedi are taking over the Republic. Vader was never a character that believed he was doing the right thing. He was a power-hungry monster. In ROTJ it’s clear he knows what he’s doing is wrong. I like it better in the current cut, where it’s more just an excuse he gives himself rather then something he genuinely believes, but even that I’m iffy on. The most ideal version would be accepting that he’s become a monster but pretends he doesn’t care.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Obi Wan is gung-ho on killing Vader throughout the entire trilogy. Especially in this movie, where he says the Emperor has already won since Luke won’t kill his own father. He seems to imply that was always the plan for Luke, too. Which means Vader’s line suggesting that Obi-Wan once told him to run away together contradicts itself within its own film. So I seriously hope this line is amended. Even ignoring the prequels, it makes zero sense based on what we know about the characters.

First, Vader says “Obi-Wan once thought as you do”. Originally Obi-Wan was gonna try and bring Vader back to the light after he turned, but failed. He’s referring to a past attempt.

Second, Lucas didn’t intend on it coming across that Obi-Wan was gun-ho on killing Vader. Obi-Wan saying that Luke not being able to kill his father means “the Emperor has already won” is simply him acknowledging that if Vader refuses to turn and puts Luke in a position where he has to kill him and he refuses, then yeah, the Emperor will win.

“He knows that, eventually, Darth Vader is gonna come looking for them. He knows this thing is going to blow up in a big war. He knows a confrontation is brewing between Luke and his father. Ben hopes that Luke will either save his father or kill him, because whatever extra powers Luke’s got in his lineage, he is the one person that can probably fight his father and win.” - The Star Wars Archives: 1977-1983, 2018

Now, obviously Obi-Wan isn’t optimistic that Vader can be saved. He does think Luke will be forced to kill him, hence why the dialogue is the way it is.

Regardless of if it came across well in the film itself, the Jedi don’t explicitly send him to murder Vader, they just tell him to confront/face him. And we also circle back to my first point.

I’m indifferent about the line change. I think the original line works because I view the originals as a separate entity from the prequels as is (even if I still enjoy ROTS to a degree) and the new line works because Vader acknowledging Luke’s mother is rather touching. I don’t think it’s a make-or-break type of deal.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I like ROTS the way it is, but if I had to change one thing it would definitely be that robot’s line. Something like, “We aren’t sure why, but her life energy is fading away”. Just so that it’s clear either Palpatine, or Vader unknowingly, is draining her life force into Anakin so he can be reborn as Darth Vader. If Vader did unintentionally do it due to his angry thoughts dwelling on her that would make the most sense with Palpatine’s next line: “It appears, in your anger, you killed her.” That line doesn’t match him choking her anyways because that was never what she died from in the original. Vader’s next line would then explain that he likely absorbed her life force: “She was alive, I felt it!” Yeah, of course you felt it, you were unintentionally absorbing it so you could stay alive.

Random side note, but I find the “ooooba” part absolutely hilarious. Just another meme to make this movie a true masterpiece.

You just opened pandora’s box by giving Palpatine and Vader the ability to just steal the life force and kill anyone anywhere anytime they want. The Rebellion and Jedi would never stand a chance and they would become all-powerful force gods from absorbing all that energy.

Updated the changelist.

It now reflects everything I have come up with to successfully implement the idea that Anakin turns because he wants the power of immortality. I’m also including some deleted scenes in the opening act.

Unlike what I initially planned, a rough draft of this edit is likely coming out before the other two. Partially because I’m more enthusiastic about this one.

I’ve got the new lines from the Palpatine voice actor. And guys, these lines sound amazing. I actually got chills hearing them. I can’t wait to edit them into the movie

Gandalf the Cyan said:

It’s a good idea, but I think that would work much better if we actually SAW Anakin being treated badly. In the actual movie, his slave life doesn’t seem all that bad. This is a minor issue in TPM, but having Anakin’s vengefulness being a plot point without seeing his abuse would make the issue much more obvious.

One of the changes I was planning on making was taking advantage of the alien language dialogue and making Watto verbally abusive and alluding to worse stuff happening off-screen.

my favorite part of Revenge of the Sith is when Palpatine is so happy Anakin is turning to the dark side he nuts like 8 times

In a wider effort to reorient Anakin’s turn to Vader to being more about power then attachment (something I’m trying to accomplish with my “Vader Edition” prequel trilogy), what if part of the reason the Council rejects Anakin is because he secretly craves revenge on his master? I’d be 100% understandable, he was a slave. I don’t think there was ever a slave that didn’t want to give their master what they deserved.

The part of him missing his mother would still be incorporated, but I think it’d go a long way to show that Anakin had power-hungry tendencies from the beginning which ties into his past as a slave.

Something funny about the video is when he’s going over how the special editions are “nothing new” (the comparisons are always false equivalencies) he brings up the Lord of the Rings 4K and criticizes the color grades (rightfully) for being worse.

But Rick, by your logic, you’re not allowed to do that! It’s Peter Jackson’s vision, he can do whatever he wants with it! They’re his movies, you’re not allowed to criticize him! You’re stuck with it and if you ask for the theatrical version you’re just an entitled child!

Also he says the changes to LOTR were done “thoughtlessly” and then spends so much of the video defending far more thoughtless changes to the OT.

you deleted the cut list for this and AOTC

Lucas trying to parallel Anakin and Luke’s arcs does nothing but detriment the story.

Luke’s arc in the OT is going from a farm boy to a Jedi Knight. Each movie is a different trial in his path to become one, and he’s not fully a Jedi until ROTJ. Anakin, as established in the OT, was a Jedi who became a Sith. Becoming Darth Vader should’ve been what the whole trilogy was about.

But Lucas clearly wanted to parallel Luke, where the first movie is basically just his recruitment, the second is being a padawan learner, and then in the third one, he’s a Knight. And that just fundamentally doesn’t work. By trying to parallel Luke’s arc but also build up to him becoming Vader, Lucas just makes Anakin look like a bad egg. He’s slaughtering Tusken kids at 19. They had him peak when he was 9. Nine. And it’s what leads to ROTS being rushed, even if I still enjoy it. He had to develop Anakin as a Jedi Knight and his turn in like, an hour. That’s insane.

It should’ve just started with Anakin as a Jedi. There’s nothing we learn about him in episodes 1 and 2 that couldn’t be exposition.

NFBisms, I’m doing an edit of ROTS where one of Anakin’s motivations is that he craves the power of immortality. I’m hiring a Palpatine voice actor (who’s done work for Star Wars Story in the past) to do new Palpatine lines to integrate this idea. I’m also rearranging scenes so for example the opera scene (with some changed dialogue) comes before the nightmare about Padme’s death (showing Anakin’s intrigued by the prospect of cheating death even before), and Palpatine isn’t even gonna know about the nightmare.

I don’t have the Palpatine lines yet (I need some time to make money after the holidays) but once the edit is done, if your vision aligns with mine in that way, I’d be more then happy to allow you to use them.

SparkySywer said:

Why put The Phantom Menace so low?

Once the initial action-packed opening ended it became really boring. The movie throws away pretty much all potential it has for emotional investment, and only some individual scenes stick out (Liam Neeson hard carries). It doesn’t show any of the carnage caused by the trade federation, thus you don’t have any sympathy for Padme’s situation like you do Leia’s in ANH. Same problem with Anakin, no abuse is even hinted at. The mf literally goes “yippee” to his slave master. The only potential value that seeing Vader as a 9 year old could possibly offer is just thrown out the window. It’s just a fundamentally stupid concept making him that young, he either can’t do enough or anything he does is flat out ridiculous because, again, he’s 9. Obi-Wan has hardly anything to do. AOTC is the first prequel movie where Obi-Wan really feels like a character, in TPM he’s basically just Qui-Gon’s sidekick who bickers with him all the time. Even the relationship between the Gungans and the Naboo is squandered. Could’ve maybe actually explored why they hated each other and reconciling, as well as expounding upon whatever symbiotic relationship Obi-Wan was talking about, but nope. You can see that Lucas was trying to explore the themes of symbiotic relationships, that people need to work together in order to accomplish things, and as someone who takes a lot of interest in ecology, it’s an interesting concept, but it simply doesn’t come together.

I don’t like it for the same reason a lot of people who dislike the prequels like it the most of the 3: it’s irrelevancy to the larger story. I know many people hate AOTC more because it messes up Anakin, but not only does Obi-Wan still make it enjoyable for me, but trying and failing to tell Anakin’s story well is better then doing basically nothing at all.

Final Star Wars ranking after my 2023 annual Star Wars marathon

1. Empire Strikes Back - 10/10
2. Return of the Jedi - 10/10
3. A New Hope - 10/10
4. Rogue One - 9/10
5. Revenge of the Sith - 7/10
6. The Last Jedi - 7/10
7. The Force Awakens - 7/10
8. Solo - 6/10
9. Attack of the Clones - 5/10
10. The Phantom Menace - 3/10
11. The Rise of Skywalker - 2/10

Yep, I came around on TLJ. TROS will forever suffer my wrath tho

Thankfully, I will not have to resort to AI, at least for Palpatine’s new dialogue. Someone has reached out to me who can voice act Palpatine.

Here are the new lines I’m planning:
“He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep himself and his apprentice from dying.”
“Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep before he could heal himself.”
“Learn to know the dark side of the Force, and you will be able to unlock Plagueis’ secret to cheat death.”
“I know you’ve always craved the power of eternal life, to deny death, just as much as I do. It is only natural. We must conquer the Jedi Temple, take back the Sith holocrons they have kept from us. Use what we can. With our powers combined, I know we can unlock Plagueis’ secret. If he could discover the secret, certainly the son of the Force itself could.”
“Together we will rule the galaxy forever. Me as Emperor, and you as my invincible enforcer. You will answer to no one but me, son.”
“Know the power of the dark side. The power of eternal life.”
“Every single Jedi, including your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi, are now enemies of our new Empire.”
“Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to cheat death.”
“Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy… forever.”