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Gaffer Tape

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2-Jun-2005
Last activity
13-Nov-2019
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Post
#137055
Topic
Lucas's filmmaking rut
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/137055/action/topic#137055
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: CO
It is scary how many of us think alike. I always thought maybe I was nuts, but many people see a change in Star Wars after ESB. It is such a quality drop, it bothers me to this day. I watched ROTJ the other, and though it is entertaining, and the Vader/Emperor/Luke scene is done very well, the movie overall is just not as good as Star Wars or ESB. Then you get to the prequels, and other than ROTS, they just don't feel like Star Wars.

To one thing I noticed is ROTS is making ROTJ worse! All the questions I waited for: Why did Vader turn? Did Luke & Leia's mom die? How does Leia know her mom and Luke doesn't? What is the whole story on the force ghost? All of the answers to these questions were underwhelming. We waited all these years to learn Vader was tricked, and he did everything for his wife? To me it brings down Vader alittle, but I think that is what Lucas intended to do.

Now when I watch ROTJ I notice things that were written badly in the prequels and it is definitely hurting the movie, for instance, when Leia and Luke talk about their mom, their real mom, it is such a plot error. Many people who defend Lucas say she saw Padme through the force, but to me that is lame and really lazy writing. I really thought ROTS would fullfill my appetite of Star Wars and answer all my questions, but it has made things more confusing, and has left me very unsatisfied toward the rise, fall, and redemption of Vader. I liked it better when it was the story about Luke. Oh well, I guess I have to get over it.
sah

Yeah, ever since I was a little kid and watching the trilogy (because I'd never just watch one movie and quit!), my excitement always built through Star Wars and climaxed at The Empire Strikes Back. And then my excitement dropped by the time I got to Return. It just couldn't top Empire. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy it. And I love it too. But even though the space fight is cool, the Vader/Luke/Emperor duel is cool, and Leia's bikini is the hottest thing in the universe, it just doesn't grab me the same way as the other two. And it always surprised me that a lot of my friends say that Return is their favorite. In a lot of ways, it just seems like, "Let's get together again and have one more adventure!"

The problem with Vader in the prequels is that Lucas doesn't seem to understand is that you can't tell one story from the same perspective and have the same character be the main antagonist in one half of it, and the main protagonist in the other half. Well, you can, but he just didn't do it in a way that was good. We have three movies where Darth Vader is the epitome of evil. He is ruthless. He is badass to every degree. Then George made the prequels and decided, "Luke isn't the hero of my six-episode Star Wars story. Anakin is. Everything is about him. He's the protagonist." So they spent three movies with Anakin as the hero. The good guy. There are some problems being hinted at, but George cannot bring himself to make his new hero anything but sympathetic. So, rather than being motivated by power and greed to become evil, he is motivated by love. Yeah... right. What he should have done was to make Anakin an anti-hero where he is on the good guy side, but he doesn't have the good guy attitude. Make him like Tom Riddle in the Harry Potter books. Model student, prefect, head boy, but he gets his jollies by hurting other people, and he knows when to suck up to the powers that be. So he made a seamless transition into Lord Voldemort. Anakin makes a complete 180 to Darth Vader, and it makes little to no sense.
Post
#136607
Topic
The Mace Windu Debate
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/136607/action/topic#136607
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: bad_karma24
Quote
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
The only reason this debate even exists is because George went overboard with the whole Superjedi premise in the prequels, giving them crazy badass skills far, far, FAR beyond regular people. Obviously Jedi are supposed to be able to perform feats that are beyond regular people. That's a no-brainer. They have a great degree of athleticism, and they can do things through the force. The prequels, however, allow them to do every kind of aerial acrobatics short of actually flying. So the fact that Mace Windu dies by falling out of a high window was poorly done and left more ambiguous than it should have been, based on abilities of the Jedi as demonstrated throughout the previous two movies. That's George's own fault in his writing.


I would have to disagree with that. Of course they'll have skills beyond regular people, that's what makes them Jedi. But if you take Windu, who has his arm cut off and thrown out of window (after being hit by force lightning) its very unlikely he would survive. They aren't invincible.

In any case, the whole point to the "balance of the force" prophecy is that in the end, the force is balanced. Two dark jedi (Vader and Palpatine) and two light Jedi (Obi-Wan and Yoda). So it's doubtful Mace was meant to survive.


I'm not saying I think he survived. I think he's dead as a doornail. I was just saying that the reason people debate whether or not he's alive is because it has been shown before that Jedi can survive falling from great heights and being struck by Palpatine force lightning. So I say it's poor writing on George's part because he either should have toned back the Jedi powers or written Mace's death in a way that didn't have a possibility of contradicting said powers.

And Adam, I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear on what I said before. Yes, I know that the EU books are sanctioned by LFL. My comparison to fanfiction simply meant that both the EU and fanfiction are written by fans of the series who continue it how they want to. It's not like the movie adaptations where authors are given the story to convert into book. They have pretty much free reign to write what they want, provided that they don't disrupt the continuity of the other EU books. See what I'm saying? I know it's really all up to opinion how much the EU can be considered canon. I'm still slightly torn myself. It depends on the situation. But in the case of Boba Fett, you really do have a choice. I don't have to say that he's definitely alive because the EU said so. I can believe what I want to because the EU is really kind of semi-canon. What I disagree with is that, in order for someone to die, it has to specifically stated that he died. As in, Boba falls into the sarlaac pit, and suddenly Jabba yells, "Boba Fett is dead!" The sarlaac pit is described as, "a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over a thousand years." That pretty much implies that one who falls into the sarlaac pit is going to die. Obviously, the fact that it's not an instant death provides it with the loophole that the EU writer used to get him out. But it never says how long it takes for him to die. Obviously, Fett's not going to be lying in there alive for a thousand years. That's simply how long it takes for his body to be digested. He could die after a few days or maybe a month... maybe several painful hours. But I think the movie implies well enough that Fett is dead. You don't necessarily have to have someone say that he's dead for him to be dead. No one ever says that Vader is dead, or that Jabba is dead, but no one really argues that point.

And current versions of the episodes being #1 canon. Well, in a sense I suppose you're right about that. I simply refuse to accept Special Edition changes as being canon, but that's just me being a stubborn old crummudgeon. ^_^
Post
#136544
Topic
The Mace Windu Debate
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/136544/action/topic#136544
Time
The only reason this debate even exists is because George went overboard with the whole Superjedi premise in the prequels, giving them crazy badass skills far, far, FAR beyond regular people. Obviously Jedi are supposed to be able to perform feats that are beyond regular people. That's a no-brainer. They have a great degree of athleticism, and they can do things through the force. The prequels, however, allow them to do every kind of aerial acrobatics short of actually flying. So the fact that Mace Windu dies by falling out of a high window was poorly done and left more ambiguous than it should have been, based on abilities of the Jedi as demonstrated throughout the previous two movies. That's George's own fault in his writing. That said, I think Mace is dead. Not everything has to be explicitly stated, and this is one of the few things in the prequels that is not explicitly stated. The fact that he's dead is implicitly stated well enough that we know George's intention is for Mace to be dead. It just doesn't necessarily hold continuity-wise. Speculation is fun, though, and what better place than a forum to demonstrate it?

Then again, though, I don't necessarily believe your canon heirarchy. Pretty much the only things you can accept as canon is what happens in the movies. The books are probably pretty reputable, though, because they're officially licensed adaptations, and I think George wouldn't let it through if it explicitly (there's that word again) defied canon. However, I think the buck stops there. I don't think that you can positively identify Boba Fett as alive simply because the Expanded Universe says he is. In the movie, he is implicitly dead. So just because no canon explicitly says that he is, that doesn't make the Expanded Universe canon. Based on that system, if the EU hadn't said anything about it either, does that mean that fanfiction that said Boba Fett was alive be considered canon? Because, really, fanfiction is just unpublished EU, right?
Post
#135616
Topic
Star Wars 3-D in 2007
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/135616/action/topic#135616
Time
If I ever get the chance, I probably will go see it. That way I will have an informed opinion. But I really don't like it solely on principle. Because he's always coming out with some sort of gimmick to rehash his old movies and pretend like he's actually doing something new and worthwhile. Even if it's things that people absolutely hates, it gets him attention. I mean, I hate the fact that the movies were changed again, but I own the DVDs. I preordered them before I knew they were being changed more. But it was a re-release, and it'll get people's attention, and they'll buy into it simply because it's Star Wars. So let's make a Special Edition. Let's make Jar-Jar Binks. Let's make Star Wars in 3-D. Don't you realize it's not going to stop until people stop caring? And when people stop caring, Star Wars will be completely ruined. And it's simply because Lucas is afraid to try anything new. He's afraid to branch out and take a risk. And he's in the best position to take a risk, being the head of a huge company. But he just has to keep sticking to Star Wars, rehashing and re-releasing the same things with minor modifications because it's the easy thing to do. And it brings in the cash, and it may be commercially popular right now, but it's killing Star Wars little by little. It's dividing the fanbase into those who will eat up everything Star Wars and those who think that the Special Editions, etc. are a bad idea. I for one think that the prequels, although they have their moments, did their part in killing a little piece of Star Wars. Because now the official Star Wars canon includes things like Anakin creating 3PO, Jar-Jar Binks existing, Leia having memories of her mother even though she was two seconds old when her mother died! Botched story elements like that just cheapen the overall feel of Star Wars, and that's what I'm afraid this 3-D version will do simply because it's another rehash that's running Star Wars into the ground.

Sorry to rant like that. Continue what you were doing.
Post
#135487
Topic
Star Wars 3-D in 2007
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/135487/action/topic#135487
Time
I have no problem with 3-D as a genre. In fact, it's pretty cool. I just think George Lucas should squeeze two simple words into the middle of his passionate love affair with Star Wars: "letting go." It's over. Stop trying to change things. Stop trying to revive it. Stop milking your cash cow. Move on with your life before you bury Star Wars and ruin it any more than you already have.

"If you truly love it, you must set it free!"
Post
#135072
Topic
Poll: who is hotter. Padme or Princess Leia
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/135072/action/topic#135072
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
yeah well the real question for all of you guys out there is who you would rather sleep with, and then this debate can be ended.


Once again, it depends on which time period we're talking about here, and which age each lady is at the time of... the deed. So let me just have my fantasy and assume they are both Star Wars age. If ADM's description is accurate... still going with Leia!
Post
#134840
Topic
October Batman Release
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/134840/action/topic#134840
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
On the other hand, when B:TAS became Gotham Knights, it didn't have a bad episode one, despite having Robin in nearly every episode. (Granted, Drake > Dick as Robin any day, but still)


Bah! Okay, I'm not going to argue because Tim Drake is a good Robin (although he seemed too young in the Batman/Superman Hour thing, and his costume seemed like some red pajamas I used to have), but how can you possibly say he's a better Robin than Dick Grayson? At least Dick Grayson did something with his life! He moved on! He got away from Batman and started his own group (Teen Titans) and became his own man (Nightwing)! So hats off to all the Dick Graysons: Douglas Croft, John Duncan, Burt Ward, Casey Kasem, whoever played him in the new animated series, I forget, and Chris O'Donnell!

Post
#134784
Topic
October Batman Release
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/134784/action/topic#134784
Time
Isn't it strange how it seems impossible to ever make a movie called Batman and Robin that's actually any good? We all know that the 1997 Batman and Robin is pfffft. And it kept another movie from being made for eight years. But nearly fifty years earlier they tried it, and it was grossly inferior to the previous Batman movie. And another Batman movie wasn't made for another 17 years! And, it's not a movie, but most people agree that Batman: The Animated Series started to not be so good when it became The Adventures of Batman and Robin. I'm not saying anything against the character of Robin, but naming a piece of the Batman franchise Batman and Robin seems to be a nail in the coffin, or maybe the coffin itself.