If you absolutely need it, that's the only way I'd recommend it, for what that's worth.
It works as a comparison for me, as that change always pissed me off too. And, actually, it just creates an inconsistency for something that Tolkien had already fixed. He explains in Lord of the Rings that Bilbo, under the influence of the ring, had taken some creative liberties in writing the story of The Hobbit. Maybe not the best retcon in the world, but it worked. But if you alter The Hobbit, suddenly that line no longer makes any sense.
No. I don't think he's a troll. He just has a different opinion.
Anyway, ROFLRICK. My only actions have been to not buy the Blu-ray (and considering I don't own a Blu-ray player, it's not that difficult not to do, not that I would have anyway), join the "Save Star Wars--Boycott the Blu-Rays" facebook page, and to post a video on my YouTube channel explaining the situation and encouraging my viewers to boycott it as well. What's wrong with that?
To be honest, I actually understand the pro-Lucas... "fanboys" better than the other people. I understand why they're buying the Blu-rays. If they like seeing the movies continually updated, if they like the originals better matching the prequels, then of course they're going to see this as a good product and want to buy it. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. It's the fans who complain about not getting the originals released and then STILL buy it, and then complain about how they can't NOT buy it... those people drive me crazy. Those people I can't understand. How hard is it not to buy something you disagree with? How hard is it to go beyond, "It's Star Wars... on Blu-Ray!" in your critical thinking process?
ROFLRICK said:
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
ROFLRICK said:
I'll wager that wrongfully and intentionally attempting to sway the general public's idea of something is not a good principle. And furthermore, the thing that most of us want is accessible right here on this website. I've been enjoying the OUT for some time now, in versions that indicate they were created with a lot of love and care. The obsession with getting a single man to do what more creative men are doing already (and better) is silly.
You're kidding, right? "Wrongfully" suggesting that the owner of a classic film properly preserve it?
And regardless of our efforts, a proper preservation/restoration from original elements would do considerably better justice to the film than anything we can do or have done. Harmy's wonderful efforts notwithstanding, I'm sure he'd agree.
I'm not kidding. Let's move away from Star Wars momentarily. Let's say I like a specific author. He has a new book coming out and I know that content-wise it isn't what I expect, nor is it what I want. It's not even what the author should have produced. I know it, you know it.
It's still not right to preemptively publish a 1-Star review for something you have not seen, nor do you own yet, to further an agenda. Because it's not what you want. It's just not constructive.
Boy, is that comparing apples to chairs. We're not talking about an author releasing a new book that has questionable content. This isn't a book we haven't read before. People who wrote these reviews (and I admit I never wrote one) did so after having seen what was changed. Some of them, through some reason or another, did manage to get their hands on them early. So it's not just assuming something's wrong. It's having first hand information to form the opinion that it's wrong. Again, is it because the opinion that's formed is different from yours that it's wrong? Have you gone after the people who have for years been posting 5-star reviews of Star Wars releases before they've come out? Or is their "agenda" somehow not as wrong as ours?
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
ROFLRICK said:
I'll wager that wrongfully and intentionally attempting to sway the general public's idea of something is not a good principle. And furthermore, the thing that most of us want is accessible right here on this website. I've been enjoying the OUT for some time now, in versions that indicate they were created with a lot of love and care. The obsession with getting a single man to do what more creative men are doing already (and better) is silly.
You're kidding, right? "Wrongfully" suggesting that the owner of a classic film properly preserve it?
And regardless of our efforts, a proper preservation/restoration from original elements would do considerably better justice to the film than anything we can do or have done. Harmy's wonderful efforts notwithstanding, I'm sure he'd agree.
Yeah, especially since that was in response to my post, I find the words "wrongfully" and "intentionally" to be really odd. Who attempts to unintentionally sway the general public's idea of something? And what's "wrong" with doing so? Or is it wrong simply because it's something you disagree with? How is it not wrong to intentionally sway the general public to believe that it's good?
And I really have nothing more to add to the outrageous belief that the fan preservations are an adequate replacement for a real release of the real movies. Harmy, doubleofive, and Puggo have already summed it up very well.
ROFLRICK said:
Promus said:
I did MY part...gave a crappy review and rated it as one star.
Let's "stay on target," people! This is our chance to "strike back" in some small way at Lucas!!
This is pretty ridiculous as well. It's not going to matter. Lucas publicly rebukes those that want the OT. He doesn't give a hoot about all the one-star reviews in the world. The group of people that would take the time to "vote with their wallet" is so small compared to the general buying public who thinks having Star Wars in HD is "pretty cool". That's all that matters.
Actually, I didn't have to waste much time at all to vote with my wallet at all. In fact, it took no time. I've spent no time not buying these movies. It's great.
But I really hate this mindset. Forgive me for saying so, or don't, but it's a pretty lousy attitude to have. "You're not going to win, so why bother trying?" Gee, maybe because we believe in something? Maybe because, even if we can't win, we're at least sticking to our principles. Maybe because, even if it's a tiny dent in George's pockets, at least we know that he didn't get our money, that at least there's a few ten thousands of dollars he won't have to finance that much more CG shit on the screen. But, seriously, Star Wars "fans" are some of the most defeatist and frustrating people I've ever met! It's amazing they ever get anything done if they have that kind of attitude in real life too!
TheBoost said:
Jacen said:
Tobar said:
Looks like Bill Hunt is being attacked. Originaltrilogy.com is also mentioned toward the beginning. I'm still trying to figure this out:
How you can be an advocate for quality cinema while at the same time telling an artist that he MUST release earlier versions of his films he no longer supports is a contradiction.
It's the guy in the metal t-shirt explaining why his metal t-shirt is ok and other people are posers.
Hmm... people who spam Amazon and bitch at people for liking something they don't like? If I hadn't already read one of his other "articulate" pieces, I wouldn't be sure he wasn't talking about people who supported the changes and supported the suppression of the originals. I mean, that's certainly how we here tend to use the term "fanboy" at any rate. Isn't that kinda funny?
Haha, true, but he really needs to use that thesaurus to look up a synonym for "fanboy."
Eh, I'm not sure if I'd call the guy "articulate." I mean, I guess he can string words together better than your average disgruntled, teenage nerd, but most of his points make no sense, or at least contradictory, and he seems to have ego bigger than Kansas. The entire thing was dripping (and even occasionally explicitly stated) with a smugness of, "If you agree with me, then you're brilliant and enlightened. If not, you're a terrible person not worth bothering with." But then again, maybe it does take a certain ability to be articulate in order to make an opinion piece sound so much like a plea to save the starving children. I particularly liked the part where he said, "His decision early on to support the blu-ray format during the HD wars was commendable." Commendable? Why? Because he backed the winning horse? Or because he happened to pick the same horse you were betting on? What the hell is 'commendable' about that?
However, after taking another glance at the article just now, I'd say the argument for articulation falls apart just at how many times he throws out the word "fanboy." Used in such abundance, it really does start to sound like your average disgruntled, teenage nerd.
Mielr said:
Soooo....you're one of those impossible-to-please fanboys I keep hearing about on other websites! LOL. :-P
I know you're joking, but, geez, isn't it the exact opposite? Keeping the films as they are and just cleaning them is a lot simpler than recomping everything and "fixing" shit. So, really, I'm comparatively easy to please.
Zombie summed up everything much more eloquently than I did, but I will reiterate what I thought was my best point from the last thread: if we get the OOT properly, we'll probably only get one shot at it. If we get a "close to OOT", people will still be complaining, and then the mainstream will really wonder what the hell is wrong with us. We all need to be in agreement as to what the OOT really is. Like others have said, if you want recomps and fixes, that's what the SEs and fanedits are for. The line doesn't need to be blurred between them and the real movies. Save a tasteful SE for a tasteful SE. But don't call it the real thing.
(Oh, and the deletion of the cobra reflection DOES bother me, every single time!)
Wait. But how does that "Fur Balls" image match George's vision? They don't have pupils? Why didn't George paint over their eyes? Isn't this going to be so confusing for people who are introduced through the Blu-rays? How could he let this happen?!
Hmm, it is surprising how tilted towards the other side this thread is compared to the one a few months ago. So let me help push things back the "right" way. ^_~
Nope. Wouldn't buy it. It's not the original. The movies don't need to be tweaked. They don't need anyone's meddling fingerprints. Just clean it up and slap it on a disc and make them look exactly as they did on opening nights of 1977, 80, and 83. Simple.
Actually, getting used to it, he actually looks quite good without the beard.
Yeah... gleefully looking forward to watching Revenge of the Sith. That's probably the strongest case against ever doing drugs. =P
Hey, come on. This bickering is pointless. The extreme hyperbole from generalfrievous can grow tiresome, but he's still on the same side the rest of us are.
I agree with Frink and Anchorhead. Despite what Lucas had said about the DVD version being the one to last forever, I would have been far more surprised if there had not been any changes to the Blu-rays. Doesn't make me any less pissed off about them, but they're certainly not surprising. I am surprised that this is the moment when people are finally starting to care. I do understand the breaking point, and I'm certainly glad it happened, no matter what the catalyst, but considering some of the crazy shit we've had to put up with up until now, these particular changes seem extremely tame by comparison. I'm still shocked that Hayden wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back.
Because his laziness is a stronger motivator than his "vision" (hardy har har). The '97s were the last version to have a theatrical release, and, thus, a theatrical print. Why bother to make new prints when, well... you're lazy?
I agree. The CG Yoda just always looked very mean and unhappy. Say what you will about the Episode I puppet (at least the eyes were closer to looking like Yoda than the CG one... why can't they ever get that right?!), but Yoda's never looked happier.
Lestrade said:
The geeks eventually got their face time with Lucas and I want to stress how respectful these guys were, and that they paid a lot of money for face time with Lucas. This was not a surprise interaction; Lucas came to this event knowing he’d be expected to mingle with the peons. I don’t advocate bugging celebrities in their daily lives, but this was a professional event designed to encourage these interactions. The guys were not out of bounds. They started by telling Lucas that they loved him/the movies/grew up watching them. Then they very politely asked why he wouldn’t make the original versions of the movies available on DVD/Blu-Ray. They stressed that they don’t mind the retroactive edits (doubtful, but they were being nice), they just wanted good digital copies of the original cuts, too. Lucas’s response? An eyeroll and a huffy, “Grow up. These are my movies, not yours.”
"Grow up"? Geez, what a class act, Lucas, especially when your behavior is nothing short of, "If you don't like the way I play the game, I'm taking your football and puncturing a hole in it... and then encouraging you to pay for the deflated football."
I would like to read that article, though, but your link is just a broken link to something in this thread.
ROFLRICK said:
I find it humorous that there is a strong desire out there for George and ILM to tinker with the PT (yes, pioneering effects look very... pioneering.) All the while the endless tinkering with the OT is causing pandemonium across the internet.
Hey. Just so we're clear, I hate that he's fucking around with the prequels as well. I'm not even terribly fond of them, but it pisses me off that he won't leave them alone. I want theatrical releases of all of them, and none of the prequels have even managed to make it on DVD untampered with.
Yay! Congrats, Anchorhead! I'd say something wittier, but I just woke up. So... yeah, that's the best I can do.
I hope these leaked changes do lead to a significant loss of sales. Because at the moment, all I can think of is that tweet Katie Lucas put out: Haters are gonna hate, but, in the end, they're still going to buy it. That's the (up until now extremely accurate) impression they have of us. The fans will bitch and moan because that's what fans do. The press will cover it. But in the end it will still be the most successful Blu-ray release ever. So why not keep making changes? That's the mindset we have to squash because it gives them license to keep going, and it makes us look stupid.
SpenceEdit said:
Either way, anyone who says they aren't buying the BD set because of the changes is going to miss out. Look at all those special features. The deleted scenes are enough for me. Can't wait!
I honestly don't feel like I'm very much missing out. I'd certainly never buy a release just for its bonus features. Again, it's sending the wrong message. We have to send George the message that we're not going to put up with this crap, and the only way to do that is to not buy the damn things. If people are fed up with the changes but still buy them for the additional content, all Lucasfilm sees is, "Oh, it sold well. We can keep doing what we're doing." So I understand the desire to "be legit" for fan projects and to finally have access to the deleted scenes. But my opinion on that, is that if it's really that necessary, buy them off of eBay. Then you'll still legitimately own the thing, but you won't be lining the bearded one's coffers and making him think that people actually support these ridiculous changes.
Flip them? Like a pancake? Are they double sided discs?
The Aluminum Falcon said:
Wait, I just had a thought. It isn't possible that that awful Obi-Wan call is Matthew Wood vocalizing is it? He said he was going to be in every movie...
The thought had certainly crossed my mind...