Gaffer Tape

No, the scene where Padme dies needs to be fixed.

skyjedi2005 said:

The Wii is a total gimmick and was never meant to be nintendos next gen system hence the name change from the revolution to the wii.  They are working on there next gen system right now that will be for HDTV's.  Currently they are behind Sony and Microsoft in terms of tecnology unless you count gimmicky kiddy games that you play with a thing that looks like a tv remote,lol.

I'm surprised at you, sky.  You usually have pretty accurate info, but this is just... wrong.  Of course Wii was meant to be their next gen system.  What else did they have in the works?  As a counter example, the DS was not supposed to supplant the GBA.  It was a branch out into another kind of handheld market and to co-exist with the GBA.  But it did so well that it did replace the GBA (of course, being compatible with the GBA didn't hurt... kinda makes you wonder if that was their intention all along after all!).  As for Wii not being the next-gen system.  That was always what they were promoting ever since the GameCube came out.  Revolution was never meant to be the name for the system.  It was just a code name, a place holder, just like GameCube was known as Project Dolphin before it was released.  I was quite surprised when there was such backlash over it losing the name Revolution because I never expected it to continue to have that name.  Don't believe me?  Just check the serial part number for any GameCube or Wii component.  All GCN hardware start with the prefix DOL (for Dophin), and all Wii hardware have the prefix REV (for Revolution).  They were always the same thing.  It's just a nod back to that "working title" (like Blue Harvest!).

But, yes, you are right that Wii isn't the technological powerhouse that its contemporaries are.  It's never tried to be.  It's always been up front about that.  And it's never bothered me.  I don't have an HDTV, and a lot of people don't.  Nintendo didn't consider it to be that big of a concern, and I personally don't think they're wrong about that, even two years later.  Once again, it all comes down to the games, which is what I'll agree they're having problems with because the gimmicky crowd has become its main consumer base.  But the good games are good regardless of whether they are in HD or not, so I've never understood how that's been a limiting factor.  If that was such a limiting factor, games like Mega Man 9 wouldn't be selling so well.

Wait.  You bring up something I meant to ask before, Tiptup.  I remember the new ads talking about the aspect ratio, and that confused me, because I thought that the 2003 DVD preserved that.  I mean, the special features on that DVD made a big deal about the "new-fangled" process they used to make the ratio for that movie, so I assumed it was accurately done for the DVD.  Is that incorrect?

Oh, and what's the problem with the new Nightmare set?  I got it for my girlfriend for her birthday.  I'd never seen the movie before then, so I had nothing to compare it to.  Is it the standard Disney problem of cutting down the ratio so that it perfectly fits a widescreen TV in 16:9?  Or is it another DNR problem?

EDIT:  Ah, wait, I see on your link.  The OAR of Sleeping Beauty was 2.55:1, but the 2003 release was 2.35:1.

And maybe you're so used to well-written dialogue that you assume Lucas has the same intentions too? ^_~

I will definitely agree that those scenarios are possible, and, in other scenarios, probable.  While the absence of proof is not proof of absence, I find it a bit of a stretch in this case to assume that George had any of these good ideas in mind.  Because they do create drama and tension and let the viewers see the lack of enforcement they actually had with their code, I would think it would have been pointed out a little more clearly... or at all. 

As for Mace Windu... well, you made me laugh, that's for sure.  But he does have enough of a character that I'm able to tell that he's not quite sure about Anakin.  He doesn't trust him.  He thinks he's defiant.  He doesn't seem entirely convinced that Anakin is "The Chosen One."  It seems to me that if he knew Anakin was flaunting the Jedi Code that badly, he wouldn't just sit idly by and let him get away with it.  Like you said, friends might let poor decisions slide, but you can't say that Mace and Anakin were friends.  Ever since Jake Lloyd gave him that scowly look in Phantom Menace, it was clear that they had bad blood!  =P

It's not out of the realm of reality for those close to a heroic figure to cover up his/her faults to keep him/her from getting in trouble.  But when someone is flaunting the rules so openly (he lives with her, and she's pregnant!) so that anyone who could put two brain cells together could figure it out, they would have to take action, otherwise it would undermine their rules and other Jedi would start screwing around.  I'm not saying I agree with their code, but they do have a code, and the fact that those rules play such a pivotal part of the plot ("How can we be together with this stringent and damning code that says we can't?") suggests to me that the Jedi would take it very seriously if they actually knew.  Which they should because it's obvious... but they don't because they're stupid.  Ugh.  Like I said, this doesn't make any sense.

Writing this post, I'm beginning to wonder if this part of the plot got messed up in the same way the other big plot movement in this movie got muddied.  You know what I'm talking about:  the turn.  Where it was written one way and then changed in pick-up shots, so that you have half the movie assuming Anakin turned under one set of circumstances and the other half under the delusion that he changed for an entirely different set of circumstances.  That's the only way I can rationalize this.  That George wasn't sure himself how the living arrangements and knowledge of the Jedi was supposed to pan out, so he wrote it two different ways and simply forgot to rectify it when he cut the movie together.

I still love my Wii, but I am afraid that it might be seen and treated as a gimmick, and I think Nintendo is really buying into this as well.  I see far too many mini-game type games and not enough big, immersive Zelda and Mario type games.  It's hard to blame Nintendo, because they're making what's selling, but I wish they would cater a little more to gamers and not just the "outside demographic."  I love the games I have for my Wii, and I have no intention or desire or interest to pick up a 360 or a PS3.  I'm just afraid Nintendo might be going a bit overboard when the Wii has proven itself capable of improving upon traditional games as well.

Also, I just got my Wii hooked up to the Internet for the first time in months and celebrated by downloading Rockman 9!  Amazing!  I loved it!  But apparently it has additional downloadable content.  Does that cost money too?  I haven't checked yet, but if it does, I'm sorely disappointed.  When I download a game, I expect to get everything, especially when it cost $10 for a download!  I shouldn't be expected to shell out more money for additional content.  That's ridiculous!

Yeah, Disney used a multi-plane camera to composite different layers together to create the illusion of depth.  I haven't watched Sleeping Beauty in a while, so I can't specifically say if it was used in that film, but it had definitely been created by then, so I would imagine that it was.

A little bit off-topic, but what's the deal with this new Sleeping Beauty release anyway?  I'm not planning on getting it because I got the 2-disc set that was released a few years ago.  Is there any real difference besides another new restoration and the fact that it is officially part of the Platinum Collection line now (I always assumed the previous one was since it was a 2-disc set released during the Platinum Era with the same kinds of special features and documentaries that the Platinum Collection has overall)?

This is something that's bothered me since 2005, but I don't know if I've ever brought it up here before.  A lot of people complain about the force-sensitive Jedi being unable to sniff out a government-wide plot to overthrow them.  However, I can suspend disbelief enough to accept that.  Of course, something else that keeps me from seeing flaws in that is being distracted by how incredibly stupid everybody is not to be able to figure out that Anakin and Padme are married, living together, and having babies!  Seriously, how does nobody figure this out? 

Obi-Wan knows that Anakin is obsessed with Padme.  From the beginning of Attack of the Clones, Anakin does absolutely nothing to hide that he's into her.  "I'd much rather dream about Padme!"  The two men even get into a fight at the end when she falls out of the plane, and Anakin insists on saving her instead of going back to Dooku.  Yoda even picks up on this as it cuts away to a shot of him shaking his head and looking concerned.  Yet, at the end of the movie, nobody seems at all worried that Anakin might be acting "inappropriately" when he "escorts Senator Amidala back to Naboo."  Uhh, gee, I wonder what they're going to do?

Fast-forward three years.  Padme is mysteriously pregnant.  Anakin spends his nights at her apartment.  For some reason, though, it takes Obi-Wan, who was already aware that his former students loved this senator, the majority of the movie to finally put two and two together and ask, "Anakin's the father, isn't he?"  How does nobody figure this out?  Padme's obviously not hiding the fact that she's pregnant.  Does nobody ask who the father is?  Do you think anybody gossips about who knocked up the senator?  If a real senator became mysteriously pregnant, that would be all over the news!  And does nobody know where Anakin lives?  If not, how do the Jedi know where to send his mail?!  Granted, aside from Anakin, the movies never seem to address where the other Jedi live.  So I suppose I'm to assume that they all live at the Jedi Temple like one big slumber party?  Okay, that's fine... except that it would make it even more suspicious that Anakin is never there!

Maybe there's something I'm missing.  Maybe some comic or deleted scene or novel or Clone Wars episode explains that Anakin was "assigned" to "protect" the Senator by "living with her."  That doesn't really make it any more plausible.  I mean, it makes it plausible that they would be living together and nobody would question it.  But if everyone does know that Anakin and Padme live together, which is ridiculous enough considering both Obi-Wan and Yoda know that he loves her, how could they possibly have any doubt what's going on when the senator is suddenly pregnant?!

Which brings me to my last question.  If Yoda and Obi-Wan are aware only that Anakin is in love with Padme, he's still breaking the Jedi code or is at least in danger of doing so.  Why not have a good old-fashioned intervention?  With all the criticizing we do of how rigid the Jedi code is, they really don't seem to do much punishing.  Okay, I admit I have heard somewhere they went easier on Anakin because of The Chosen One... stuff, but Obi-Wan even says, "You will be expelled from the Jedi Order!!!"  This is, not coincidentally, the same point where it cuts away to Yoda telepathically spying on their conversation and shaking his head.  Unless we're to assume Yoda is shaking his head in disgust at Obi-Wan for daring to criticize Mr. Chosen One (sorry, Dr. Chosen One.  He didn't spend six years in Chosen One Academy to be referred to as Mr.), he knows that Anakin is breaking rules or about to break rules and should therefore be expected to do something about it.

Okay, I'm pretty sure I've approached this from every conceivable angle now, and I just can't make it make sense.  When I rationalize any one side of it, the rest of it falls apart.  So, somebody, please help me.  Can anybody explain this in a way it makes sense?  Or is this simply like the Jabba the Hutt Rescue Operation where I can safely say The Prequel Living Arrangements=FAIL?

As far as a love triangle idea goes, I have to agree with C3PX.  For people coming from having seen the OT (which is nearly everybody), the interest is in the Anakin/Obi-Wan relationship.  Padme is an unknown factor.  To have Obi-Wan actually sneaking behind Anakin's back and having an affair with Padme would damage his character and credibility even more than the OT retconning did.  One of the problems with the PT that is constantly brought up is that Obi-Wan and Anakin didn't have enough time together to be shown as being really good friends.  Well, if Obi-Wan spends the films having a clandestine affair with Anakin's wife, that wouldn't exactly help matters, would it?  However, I did think Anakin's suspicions of an affair was a good idea and was surprised they cut it down.  So I agree that Obi-Wan being the bigger man and cutting off a budding relationship would have worked to fulfill both of those problems.

Knightmessenger said:

Does the 97 Empire soundtrack have any of the tracked music spliced in from the new scenes? The part where we see Vader land his shuttle in the RotJ outtake sounds really bad, it's an abrupt change in the music and repeats the score of where Vader says "No, I am your father."

Those added scenes to Empire don't get mentioned a lot but I think they are among the worst additions to the trilogy. They show that George has no idea of pacing or story structure or that a scene which on it's own might look cool can make a movie worse. It totally ruins the moment with Luke's escape from the bottom of Cloud City. The Jabba scene in ANH is stupid but it doesn't interrupt nearly as emotionally involving of scenes as the Vader shuttle ones do.

No, the Empire CD is intact.  Just like its predecessor, it includes the score as is, including plenty of deleted music.  Interestingly, I first heard this deleted music as part of the score of the N64 Shadows of the Empire.  I'm referring to the tune (un)used for Echo Base being the music in the file select screen.  When I first heard the soundtrack, it gave me quite a shock.

And, hey, I've gone on record as stating the very same thing.  I think those changes in Empire are the absolute worst of the entire special edition, in some ways even worse than Jabba and Hayden (yes, Hayden).  Hayden as Vader is ridiculous and disrespectful (and, most importantly, confusing if you haven't seen the prequels), but it doesn't change the pacing of the film.  The Jabba scene kills the pacing, but it's not nearly as damning as interrupting the climax of the movie for a pointless shuttle ride.  So, yeah, I'm right there with you.

Yes, I agree.  Obviously whichever trilogy you watch first will spoil events in the other trilogy.  I just find it funny that George is promoting the "saga" in chronological order yet gives away the main spoiler of both trilogies on the back of the boxes, giving everything away before you start watching any of the movies.  I just can't understand where the logic is in that.

I have to disagree that Remastered was necessary.  Just because it wouldn't have looked good on an HDTV doesn't mean it had to be updated.  King Kong's effects, even though they were made for film, wouldn't look too good on an HDTV, but they don't need to be changed either.  I don't believe that Star Trek Remastered needed to be done or even should have been done.

That said, I do agree that, from what I've seen, most of what they've done has been very good and respectful to the original series, especially in comparison to things like the SE.  And it proves to me that the new movie could have kept the exact design of the old Enterprise without it looking dumb.

Of course, that said, I also understand to an extent why they would redesign the ship.  It's the same reason why TMP redesigned the Enterprise.  They were just able to mask it with a, "Oh, she's old, so she's undergoing a refit."  I do have to wonder if the new movie will be able to adequately explain away the design changes.

Heh, I thought that was hilarious.  The poor older brother looks crappy and pixelated on an HDTV because his parents didn't love him.  I'll be laughing my ass off over that one for days.  ^_^

Can that really be counted, though?  Test screenings happen all the time, but they're not considered to be "real theatrical versions."  They're just tests.

Damn, it C3PX.  I just got back from Best Buy and was about to post the following post:

You're all a bunch of losers.  Since none of you were able to help me out, I had to go find out the answers for myself.  And, as I expected, the back of the PT boxset contains the following:  "The first three movies chart Anakin Skywalker from slave boy to Jedi Knight to evil Sith Lord."  So... who are they marketing these movies to again?  I sure am confused, but I'm not at all surprised.  And neither will anyone who watches these movies, no matter what order you decide to watch them in.

Once again, I have a theory.  Since George is now under the impression that Star Wars is synonymous with The Tragedy of Darth Vader, he may be trying to milk the "tragedy" by taking out the surprise.  I mean, you don't go to a show of Hamlet expecting Hamlet to live through it, right?  Even if you've never seen it before, you know that Hamlet dies.  Oops, maybe I should have spoiler tagged that.  I guess George is following in such noble footsteps by putting his most major plot point on neon signs.

EDIT:  I have to add, though, that that's really the way it's supposed to be.  That's how we all first saw the prequels, knowing that Anakin would be doomed (DOOOMED, I say!), and my first viewing of ROTS was better because I had this foreboding in my stomach that bad things were going to happen.  Like I said before, that's how tragedy works:  knowing someone's screwed but finding out exactly how it happens.  And this works in the context of the OT being Star Wars, and the PT being tragic backstory.  But it still seems weird that they're marketing it this way.  It seems they're playing it safe by dropping the bomb.  They can't pick a side for fear of pissing off a certain fanbase, so they give both sides the same spoiler so they can both feel equally screwed.  =P

Oh, yeah, and you're all still losers.

Oh, yeah, and thanks for checking that out, C3PX.  ^_~

Yeah, that's probably true.  But how many have aired so far?  Six or seven?  I haven't been keeping up.

While it's not surprising that the classic trilogy has the majority of posts, it does blow my mind that in the course of only several months, people have found 2,000 different things to talk about in regard to The Clone Wars movie!  Since I've never seen the movie, I can't say for sure whether or not this is out of the realm of possibility, but it does surprise me that one poorly received, moderate box office success of a movie has nearly half as many topics as the entire prequel trilogy.

The more you know, huh?  ^_~

While that's a cool idea, I only see one problem:  how would you convey that in dialogue without destroying the pacing of the movie or sounding unnecessarily expository?

Obi-Wan:  Let her go!

Vader:  No!  As this unborn child might overthrow me as is the case with all Sith based on my five minute introduction into Sith culture proves, I must kill her so the child usurper will die as well.

Obi-Wan:  You sick monster!  Let's fight!

Vader:  Hold on just a few more seconds.  She still has a little bit of oxygen left.

^_~

Well, if you must you must.  ^_~

But if you are going for the "Lucas-approved" way, the only way to do that is with the '04 and up DVDs.  Any other way, and you're diluting George's vision.  I know that sounds sarcastic, but I'm actually being serious. 

As for complementary viewing, I'd recommend the Mark Hamill episode of The Muppet Show, George Lucas in Love, and maybe "A New Hope" from That '70s Show.

EDIT:  Whoops, forgot to compliment you on the hilarious poster.

Okay, first of all, I can guess whatever I want to guess.  There are no rules to guessing.  There are no prerequisites to guessing.  I resent being told that I'm not allowed to guess because I don't meet your guessing criteria.

Next, you're saying the original Star Wars movies aren't aimed at me?  Well, even if you're right that Star Wars is supposed to be geared at kids, I was nine years old when the marketing convinced me to start watching, so, once again assuming you're right, I believe I was the target audience.  So, nyeh.

And, finally, your 'so who is all that money coming from? not the old fans, that's for sure..'  Well, that's a pretty big reach isn't it?  Do you mind verifying that for me?  Have you conducted polls?  You can't just guess where this money is coming from.  =P

Damn, so close!

But it does seem like LucasFilm wants to have their cake and eat it too, and they can't have it both ways.  They market the OT as something to watch after the PT, but they market the PT as something to appeal to the curiosity of OT fans.  It's like being caught in a really crappy circle.  There really is no beginning to Star Wars anymore.  How does any new fan know where to begin?  Oh, yeah, I forgot.  They have numbers.  And now a whole generation who doesn't know any better is going to be duped into thinking it's supposed to be watched that way, even though Episode III (of VI, right?) markets itself as "completing the saga."  Wait.  I could have sworn there were three movies left!  Whoops.  Was I supposed to watch those first?  No, that can't be right because the back of that box refers to events that happened in those other movies. 

Geez, to all those people saying that this new Star Wars stuff is bringing in new fans, I have to disagree.  I don't think I'd like Star Wars if I came into this mess...

Yeah, same here.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Okay, so a couple of weeks ago I finally spotted the new OT boxset at a Borders.  I picked it up just to see what it was all about.  The description on the back of the box floored me.  It started out with something like, "The Jedi Knights have been exterminated, and Anakin Skywalker is now Darth Vader.  Now his son, Luke Skywalker..." et cetera.  I'm sure you all agree that that's cringeworthy (whoops, I should say most of us before someone (you know who you are) comes in and excuses me for speaking on behalf of everybody) and completely inane way of marketing the movie.  Does it come as a surprise, though?  Probably not, since George is obsessed with people watching the movies in numerical order.  But seeing as how they're still being officially separated as "Star Wars Trilogy" and "Prequel Trilogy," I would think they'd ease off on the spoilers.  As out of touch as they are, I'm sure they're aware that there are people who do view the Star Wars trilogy by itself or at least first.

And for those of you thinking, "Well, everybody knows that Darth Vader is Luke's father," that's really not the point.  It's about how any movie's plot is presented in a summary like this.  Do you expect to pick up Citizen Kane and have it say, "This is the story of Charles Foster Kane.  Relive the classic tale of a man whose childhood sled prompts him to utter 'Rosebud' on his deathbed, causing an international stir as to why he would say this mysterious word."  Or how about Casablanca?  "...as, in the pivotal moment where he tells her to get on the plane."  No matter how well-known a movie is, you don't give away plot points like that on the back of the box.  Even the '04 and '06 sets, while alluding to the prequel trilogy, were still subtle and professional, with the ESB blurb reads, "... learns a terrible truth about the Skywalker legacy."  There.  It still goes a bit too far in my book, but it does hint at the plot and generate interest without giving anything away.

The real reason I bring this up, though, is because I didn't see the Prequel Trilogy set, and I have to wonder how they're presenting it this time.  The original releases and marketing had no trouble constantly reinforcing the idea that Anakin was going to become Darth Vader.  The back of Revenge of the Sith's DVD even says this outright.  Now, as prequels expected to be seen after and in the context of the original movies, this isn't as bad because they're expecting you to have that perspective, even though they constantly contradict themselves by saying the prequels should be watched first.  However, if they have totally given into that idea now, and the prequels are still promoting Anakin as Darth Vader, then that's just screwed up.  Because now you have both sets, from the very beginning, giving away a major plot point before it's revealed in the case of the OT and before it chronologically happens in the case of the PT.  It seems to me that LucasFilm have absolutely no idea how they want to market these movies, and, in the process, have destroyed the drama involved in watching them no matter what order you decide to watch them in.

Has anybody here seen the back of the box for the prequels so that I can come to a conclusion on this?

Has it occurred to anyone else that Lucas might be really gunning after kids because they're the only ones who won't criticize him?  All of his adult fans pick apart his crappy movies, so his excuse is, "Well, they're for kids.  You shouldn't be watching them anyway."  And then, just to prove his point, he starts making Star Wars even more kid-specific.  It's typical George behavior:  "If you don't want to play by my rules, you can't be in my club anymore.  Nyah."  It was the same thing with the OOT.  "If you don't want to watch my movie the way I want you to watch it, then you can't watch it at all.  Nyah.  Well... fine, I'll let you have it, but only this copy I found that my dog took a leak on.  Hope you like piss!  Nyah!"

I'd almost forgotten about Dwyer.  I don't know how I came across it.  It was just one of those random wikipedia searches that led to one page that led to another that eventually led to him.  And there were links to the video, and I contemplated watching it, but then I chickened out.  It was probably right before a class, and I didn't want to go out with that on my mind.  I might check it out eventually just to satisfy my curiosity.  But the whole story is really sad, those of you who know it.