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GZK8000

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2-Jul-2017
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25-Sep-2023
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Post
#1193436
Topic
Rogue One * <em>Spoilers</em> * Thread
Time

TV’s Frink said:

I don’t understand why any of this matters. You liked the film or you didn’t, who cares how it got to the place it did?

Different people have different tastes and judgement. Some Star Wars fans might not particulary care the direction the franchise is taking or how the movies are produced as long as they’re good. Some others might do. There is no better opinion.

Post
#1193092
Topic
What's Actually in the Movies? (for a GURPS RPG)
Time

I don’t remember Han using stun shots in the movies. Also, if a Stormtrooper is stunned, why would they react to the pain?

But you don’t need to speculate

If I’m speculating it’s because I enjoy this conversation, not because it may help OP as the movies never specifically said “yup, this trooper is dead from this shot fired with Han’s blaster”.

If you want to take things to extreme, you could say maybe no one onboard the destroyed Star Destroyers from RotJ died, you could say Yoda was literally 800 when he met Luke (hello EU), you could say Lando is a very, very advanced droid, you could say maybe Threepio has lightsaber-related subroutines in his CPU. Nothing in the movies says the opposite, which is why you don’t see “Lando’s a human” in OP’s fact list.

I’m repeating myself here, but OP’s asking for facts, for undeniable statements, and “Stormtroopers die if they’re hit by a blast shot” is not an OT fact, or at least I don’t remember any of the movies giving full confirmation. It’s implied or suggested, but OP’s free to choose a different way for the RPG game OP’s designing.

And I simply believe that “Stormtrooper armor can save you from potentially lethal shots but you can get KO’d” is a better theory than “Stormtroopers wear useless armor just because”. Even if you take the mostly non-serious nature of SW77 in mind.

Post
#1193047
Topic
What's Actually in the Movies? (for a GURPS RPG)
Time

I never said it was fact, I was speculating based on the lack of information about the death or survival of those Stormtroopers. The movies merely say they are out of combat, but they may be alive after the heroes leave the area.

And my speculation is very simple:
-Stun mode: everyone is stunned regardless of armor (or maybe some armor might absorb the energy)
-Lethal mode: an armor can save your life but you’ll get stunned if you’re hit in vital parts, if you lack an armor you’re dead

Post
#1193041
Topic
What's Actually in the Movies? (for a GURPS RPG)
Time

You ask why would they have a stun setting if a blast shot can KO anyone wearing an armor, I merely said it might be for unprotected people.

Since this is pure speculation it’s worthless for OP. I’m merely saying it is never confirmed at least one Stormtrooper died in the OT by a blast shot. OP’s asking for facts from the movies.

Post
#1193034
Topic
What's Actually in the Movies? (for a GURPS RPG)
Time

They might have a stun setting for unarmed people. Aren’t SW Leia and TLJ Poe the only people who got KO’d by a stun shot in the movies? Otherwise, from an in and out-ot-universe PoV, why would Imperial and FO Stormtroopers wear useless armor? For me it’s in RotJ where the bad aim of the OT Stormtroopers has no logical explanation (like “let’s allow the rebels to escape”).

Post
#1192954
Topic
What's Actually in the Movies? (for a GURPS RPG)
Time

Mocata said:

  • Block blaster bolts? (Vader in V)

Maybe.

Deflected into the wall.

Well that’s why I said maybe, as we only see being deflected but Vader’s hand might absorb direct hits. But that would be pure speculation.

Did a stormtrooper die by a blast in the OT?

Leia alone kills a few per movie.

What I mean is, do we have any confirmation they’re truly dead or merely KO’d? I have always assumed stormtrooper armor would prevent a blast hit from being lethal but would not stop the wearer from being stunned.

It doesn’t have a name in the movies though. The closest is Luke’s “A city in the clouds”.

Han says it. But is that the planet or the city?

“Bespin, it’s pretty far but I think we can make it” (not those exact words IIRC). The city is unnamed, like Ach-To or D-Qar or Hosnian Prime.

When did Vader and Luke fly in the movies? They made great jumps but no flying.

Vader does his little floating jump down the stairs in the ESB dual I guess. It’s more like flying when they started using it as a Super Nintendo animation.

That’s what I think OP’s saying it’s flying but I just think of it as a big jump. OT Vader is more agile that he appears to be, although maybe not as agile as R1 Vader.

Post
#1192192
Topic
Things that you would like to see in Star Wars that have not happened
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

pittrek said:

I’d love to see a Star Wars story, which doesn’t include or even reference

  • any Skywalker
  • any Kenobi
  • Darth Vader or any cheap imitation like Kylo Ren
  • Emperor Palpatine or any cheap imitation like Snoke
  • Death Star or Death Star II or any cheap imitation like the Starkiller base

So a Star Wars movie that isn’t a Star Wars movie. Okay.

This was my complaint about Rogue One. Star Wars is incapable of separating itself from these characters and plot-points. It can’t be a very expansive universe if it is incapable of producing a film that doesn’t include or reference those forty-year-old characters.

“Ey, you just watch yourself”.

Post
#1192186
Topic
What's Actually in the Movies? (for a GURPS RPG)
Time
  • Missiles of some sort (are they ever named in the films?)

Proton torpedoes you mean?

  • Hyperdrive (requires calculations, no real indication of how fast this is since we don’t have any scale of the Empire or distance between where the crews travel - except that it’s called ‘Galactic’)

It should be very fast since in TESB Captain Needa goes to see Vader right after the Falcon disappears from Imperial sensors and mere seconds after Needa’s death Piett says “if the Millenium Falcon went into lightspeed it would be on the other side of the galaxy by now”.

[…] (Leia’s ship - is it ever named?)

Nope.

  • Ships aren’t that common?

There’s not enough information. It might be Tatooine people are just very poor.

  • Lightsabers - seem to cut basically whatever, but can be stopped by tough materials. Not actually used much except Vader v. Obi/Luke fights - swords with an armor divisor

Ah good old PT screwing things.

  • Stormtrooper armor (seems useless, at least against direct hits from the weapons the heroes carry)

Did a stormtrooper die by a blast in the OT?

  • Droids can be tortured.

Damn you RotJ.

  • C3PO introduces himself as “Human-Cyborg Relations”. Cyborgs are common? Why do they need a droid to relate to humans?

Diplomacy, probably, specially with non-human species.

  • Cameras (on Death Star)

Those things were cameras?

  • Hologram communication (Emperor to Vader)

Also Vader with Veers, and Vader with Needa and a guy who died or lost communication at that moment

  • Empire had a senate (was dissolved), The Senate was important enough that some of the Imperial officers think doing away with it is risky. The Imperial senate was considered the last vestige of the Republic

In a 1977-only context you may add the Death Star was the only way the Empire could control the galaxy after the dissolution of the Senate.

  • Deleted Tatooine scene has Biggs talking about the Empire nationalizing commerce, so it’s apparently somewhere between interventionist and communist in its economic policies.

Not to sound rude but if you were to include deleted scenes why not including stuff from the drafts and final scripts? Like Vader being the Dark Lord of the Sith, whatever the Sith are here.

  • The Empire has been tightening its control recently, and that has driven more worlds to the Rebel Alliance.

Wasn’t that Leia one-upping Tarkin?

  • Actual Imperial authority seems pretty remote, at least on the sort of worlds where the movies are mostly set. Maybe they’ve got their hands full clamping down on the important worlds?

Tatooine is the only OT planet with a permanent human presence (Bespin is a gas planet) and Luke speaks of it negatively so there’s not enough information.

  • The Old Republic was apparently semi-feudal (akin to the Roman), whereas the Empire is bureaucratic-technical (as is the Rebel Alliance.

Not enough information honestly. I have also never seen people speculating the Old Republic was semi-feudal.

  • Feudal titles (Princess, Lord, Knight) and Republican ones (Senator) but these don’t seem to carry much weight anymore?

But Leia was a princess of an entire planet.

  • Lady in the big meeting over the Death Star plans in IV (is she named?)

I don’t even know who are you talking about hahaha.

  • Other people in the meeting, also people in V and VI rebel base (are any ever given name or rank?), rebel pilots (some are ‘leader’ of a squad but no rank otherwise given)

General Rieekan IIRC.

  • Cloud City: Cloud City, as grand as it seems, isn’t considered a big place by galactic standards.

It doesn’t have a name in the movies though. The closest is Luke’s “A city in the clouds”.

  • Rebel base on Yucatan Pyramid Planet (ever given a name in the movies?)

The satellite? Only refered as a moon (maybe the fourth moon of Yavin). It’s in the scene where Vader says to Tarkin it’s gonna be a great day for the Empire.

  • Improve your sword-fighting and piloting/space shooting abilities

Implied. Never confirmed IIRC.

  • Block blaster bolts? (Vader in V)

Maybe.

  • Fly/Jump (Vader & Luke)

When did Vader and Luke fly in the movies? They made great jumps but no flying.

  • See into the future or something (Yoda does this, the Emperor too?)

It may be the Emperor is just a smartass but it wouldn’t be strange for him to read the future (except when dying lol).

  • Turn into a force ghost when you die (Vader, Obi-Wan, Yoda); This is a sufficiently rare thing that Obi-wan figured Darth Vader would either be unaware of it, or at least unaware of Kenobi’s abilities in that state.

TBH Obi-Wan’s line never made a lot of sense but it’s a plausible explanation.

  • Jedis: Obi-Wan, Yoda, no one else ever mentioned as far as I can tell. No information given on them at all. The Jedi had an apprenticeship system of teaching that is apparently helped by withdrawing from the world (see Dagobah and the evil cave thing) but Jedi were involved in the world- Kenobi was a general, Anakin was a pilot. As a result there is no evidence that any but the Jedi Masters were monastic, becoming a Jedi didn’t mean you had to give up the world until you became like Yoda on Dagobah or Obi-Wan on Tatooine. Also the Jedi were Knights. Darth Vader is widely thought to be the last practitioner of the Jedi “religion.”

I see OT Yoda as a guy who was living in a swamp planet just because, while Obi-Wan was hiding from the Empire and maybe looking after Luke. Speculation though.

  • “The Lightsaber is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. A relic of a more civilized age.” Upper class? Everyone looks concerned when Obiwan whips out the lightsaber, but not Jedi concerned. Just like he’s a tough customer and wondering what his next move is. Again, implies lightsabers are not the exclusive tool of Jedi.

The PT screwing things - Part Two

  • Jedi were trained young

Not enough information. It is implied Yoda didn’t want to train Luke.

Post
#1179392
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Sir Ridley said:

I think it’s a big misunderstanding to say that Kathleen Kennedy put that scene in the film but I’ve seen a few people suggest that. What Rian said was that Kathleen was interested in seeing Leia show force powers, it’s a stretch to believe that Kathy decided how they should be shown. She would leave the writing to the writer.

Source:
https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/star-wars-last-jedi-empire-podcast-spoiler-special-rian-johnson/

That section of the interview starts at about 19:20.

Nice that they gave her some Force-related scenes but they didn’t bother to make her relevant to the plot other than being an RotJ Ackbar-like character like in TFA (what I mean is: she’s the boss of the rebel band… and that’s it). These are the priorities.

Honestly, how is this a big improvement over RotJ? Or even the entire OT? Because Leia didn’t have a character arc in the OT other than a devolution of her character in the Jabba scenes (“Who cares about the galaxy? I must save my love interest!”). And the twist in RotJ had no impact to the story other than two bits of the climax (the Vader-Luke duel and solving the love triangle after the destruction of the second Death Star). And it’s quite sad how Han and Luke gets all the attention in the ST, even after leaving the rest of the galaxy at the mercy of the First Order, but Leia remains all the whole time, creates a paramilitary force and warns the New Republic and yet she’s mostly a background character in these movies.

Sorry, I’m really disappointed with how they have handled the female characters in the Disney movies. They’re not really a huge improvement compared with the Lucas era, other than being more in number, technically being the main protagonists and the lack of sexualization/forced romance.

Post
#1171528
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DominicCobb said:

GZK8000 said:

Oh, but I do think it isn’t a particularly funny line precisely because it’s a Vader line and it’s too long and forced. “It has the power to create problems” is shorter and flows better, and sounds more like something Han could say.

It also does not help that the Mustafar scenes are filler, as they do not advance the plot or give information, so I don’t really like Vader in R1.

I don’t much like the scene either, and I don’t find his lines all that funny there. What I meant is that he is funny in the OT, so going for funny in RO wasn’t an inherently bad idea.

Okay, now I understand your point. I agree with you here; I wasn’t saying I have a problem with Vader being funny in R1, it’s the execution and context what makes his appearance a rather poor imitation.

Post
#1171495
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Oh, but I do think it isn’t a particularly funny line precisely because it’s a Vader line and it’s too long and forced. “It has the power to create problems” is shorter and flows better, and sounds more like something Han could say.

It also does not help that the Mustafar scenes are filler, as they do not advance the plot or give information, so I don’t really like Vader in R1.

Post
#1171481
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

TV’s Frink said:

FWIW the one you just quote from RO (choke on your aspirations) was one of the few in RO that annoyed me.

That’s not the only crappy Vader line in R1. “Its power to create problems has certainly been confirmed” is not as bad, but it’s pertty bad. No one talks like this, and it’s pretty unnatural and forced. These were Vader’s “badass” lines in the OT:

“I find your lack of faith disturbing”
“Don’t act so surprised, Your Highness, you weren’t on a mercy mission this time”
“You have failed me for the last time, Admiral”
“We would be honored if you would join us”
"[…] but I want them alive. No disintegrations"
“I’m here to put you back on schedule”
“I hope so, Commander, for your own sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am”
“Don’t fail me again… Admiral
“Your powers are weak, old man”
“Apology accepted, Captain Needa”

Except for, maybe, the last case (my least favorite Vader line in the first two movies), none of these lines sounds like Vader trying hard to be a comedian. When Vader chokes the guy in Star Wars, the punchline isn’t that he’s choking the guy. The punchline is that Vader is more powerful and does not allow people to undermine him. When Vader chokes Ozzel, the punchline isn’t that he’s choking the incompetent admiral, the punchline is that Vader has no tolerance for incompetent Imperials.

But the key point here is that almost all these lines have in common one thing: Vader is showing his power and domination over someone (the OT trio, other Imperial officers, etc). He mocks Leia because he knows she’s an enemy and she cannot escape. He mocks Obi-Wan because now Vader is the master. He tells Ozzel his services are no longer needed and warns Piett of making any mistake; he’s not telling him “hahaha I can choke you” (or at least he is telling more than that). He tells Jerjerrod the Emperor is even less patient and forgiving; Vader of course assumes Jerjerrod is aware of his own reputation. By comparison, “its power to create problems has certainly been confirmed” is Vader saying a funny line. It’s aimed at no one, it could be said by Vader or anyone at any moment, regardless of the context. And that kind of setup-punchline moments are way too common in the Disney movies (and the prequels too). [Vader’s “no disintegrations” is almost an exception, because he’s not warning Boba Fett, he’s merely saying he is disappointed by Boba Fett’s actions in an earlier mission, yet I don’t think Vader is trying to be “funny”]

In Star Wars, Leia telling Han that she’s surprised he has survived all this time by following his own rules is not a cheap setup-punchline. It follows several scenes of them bickering over anything, including the trash compactor scenes, and it leads to other scenes of the two having pointless discussions. Leia isn’t stopping the movie, her words are part of the scene.

Post
#1164378
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

Faster, more intense. -George Lucas

There’s nothing wrong with making things a little more intense than in earlier movies. TESB has some scenes that are more “intense” and dramatic than the action scenes from SW, like the Falcon nearly succeeding into letting three Star Destroyers to crash with each others or Luke’s rescue from the bottom of Cloud City. That may have been something amazing in 1980, but now it’s rather mundane compared with the crap you have in the prequels, for example. At some points things become too big, too epic and too dramatic, and these movies crossed my personal line a long time ago.

SilverWook said:

Also, I can’t see how the opening battle with the bombers can be seen as generic. It evokes WWII combat footage of B-17 bombers.

I found it way worse than the dogfighting scenes after the escape from the Death Star. That also evoked WWII combat footage, but it’s based on a critical idea: that the heroes (and the audience) cannot see the TIE Fighters all the time, we can only hear them and they are hard to hit. The early battle during the evacuation of D’Qar is rather forgettable in comparison.

Post
#1164367
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Why does the first battle scene seem like it belongs in the middle of the movie?

I do think that starting the movie with such an intense action scene is, I dunno… wrong. Like, I don’t mind an action scene (SW starts with the Tantive IV and the Devastator), heck RotJ has a rather boring opening scene (is too long and it takes a lof for Vader’s shuttle to reach the Death Star), but these later movies are so intense I can’t really enjoy them. There’s so much action my body can handle, and the non-stop cameras, the quick transitions/cuts, and the overly loud OST is too much for me. It’s a matter of personal preference, but I don’t really think the movie should go from 0 to 100 that fast.

Also, it’s a rather generic battle scene. Allow me to explain:

Frank your Majesty said:

I don’t see the relevance here. Before Disney took over, I would have described me mainly as a SW/ESB fan, but now I think TLJ is the third best SW movie.

The reason why I thought this bit was relevant is because I do think many of the problems I have with the later movies (and I include TLJ here) started in RotJ or TPM (usually RotJ, but things like the RBG lightsaber scheme are from TPM). The weak villains, for example, because while SW and TESB had pretty great villains, in RotJ the Empire is restricted to Endor, Vader (who is much weaker here) never sent an Imperial agent to Jabba’s Palace (…because… ?) and the Emperor’s plan never made a lot of sense; I don’t think Krennic, Tarkin and Vader were great in R1 (I don’t really understand Tarkin’s actions, honestly, I know he’s overconfident and wants to humiliate Krennic but why is he holding critical information to Krennic about Galen Erso?), the First Order is pretty clueless in TFA, and the prequels… are the prequels. Or the rather non-sensical plots and illogically designed sets. Or the generic battle scenes. And many other things.

What do I mean by “generic battle scenes”. Well, both the Battle of Yavin IV and the Battle of Hoth had something in common: they’re based on a single but powerful visual element. In SW’s case, it’s the trench (yes, there’s some dogfighting before, but most of the battle happens in the trench), and wow I can feel the tension every time I watch the climax (and I don’t know how many times I have watched the climax), while in TESB it’s the AT-ATs themselves, a design the movie exploits in four enjoyable ways (the snowspeeder passing through an AT-AT’s legs, an AT-AT destroying Luke’s snowspeeder, Luke cutting the belly of an AT-AT, Wedge taking down an AT-AT with an harpoon cable). The AT-ATs are extremely memorable here, and how many parodies of the trench run has been made in these four decades?

But from RotJ onwards, the battles in Star Wars are almost limited to “a bunch of units put together”. The Battle of Endor? A Rebel fleet versus an Imperial fleet, with a Death Star in the background. The space Battle of Naboo? Naboo spaceships versus the Trade Federation space station. The Battle of Coruscant? The Battle of Geonosis? Same thing, some units here and some units there, chaos ensures. The Battle of Scarif has more potential, because like the ground battle of Naboo is based on an energy shield preventing a side to attack the other side, but in both cases they’re bypassed (early in TPM, it takes time in R1 and the solution is… too ridiculous/much for me).

The early battle in TLJ, although different from many other battles in Star Wars (it takes the idea of the Rebels destroying the turbolasers of the Death Star but it adds a bombing run), is just that: a battle. There’s no visual element/form that is truly memorable here, no central idea, nothing in the battle that really stands out and makes me say “oh wow I want to rewatch this battle over and over and over”. It may be better than a typical battle from a Marvel movie (but then again I don’t like the Marvel movies I have seen), but there’s nothing really deep going on. My general thoughts on this matter is that they feel that by adding some sacrifices and lots of special effects you have the job done. That wasn’t the case with the Battle of Hoth, for example, because they didn’t have the resources we have now, so they put a lot of time into making the whole battle truly memorable. I don’t hate CGI (it’s another resource, like matte paintings or models), there’s lot of great ways to use CGI, I just hate using CGI in such a lazy, unmemorable way.

But “generic battle scenes” isn’t my biggest gripe with TLJ. It’s just an example of my theory of how the post-1980 movies repeat the same problems over and over. Sometimes they may avoid or kinda fix some problems (I’m still not sure if I would put R1 above RotJ but I agree it’s much better than the other post-RotJ movies), but I don’t see a tendency here (other than the Disney movies not being as bad as the prequels, but that’s rather easy). Hope you understand now what I mean by “I’m a SW/TESB only fan so as I predicted I disliked TLJ”.

Oh, and based on my explanation, the opening scene of SW would be “generic”. But I don’t really consider it a battle scene (because the Tantive IV is disabled in a few seconds, and the rest is about people firing to each other and the droids escaping), just an action scene. Also, SW is the most lightweight Star Wars movie. There are a lot of parts in SW that are kinda silly, but that’s what the movie is about, so I don’t mind (I don’t use the seriousness of TESB and the later movies to criticise SW). TLJ, on the other hand, it’s probably the most serious Star Wars movie since RotS (more than R1 in a lot of parts), so my analysis and reactions cannot be the same.

Post
#1164014
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I’m a SW/TESB only fan, so as I suspected, I didn’t like TLJ (in fact, I disliked it more than TFA and R1). However, I have different reasons to dislike TLJ. Just like Jar-Jar Binks and the Ewoks weren’t the biggest problems of TPM and RotJ, the “big” issues fans have with TLJ are, at best, minor problems that could have been easily fixed. Even Rey’s Force powers (which I also complained when TFA was released, although her gender was never an issue for me, as I also hate the cartoonish Jedi from the prequells) aren’t a problem here (in fact, her skills are more believable in TLJ, although all the Force users of TLJ are way too powerful. And yes, I include Luke and Yoda here).

The biggest problem with TLJ is that is a giant mess of a movie for several reasons, including (wall of text incoming):
-The casino planet scenes (which made me remember the prequels) was a huge low point. “Comedy” scenes included.

-The lack of character development, or even proper introductions, for most of the cast; see Rose, who needs to explain Finn and the audience what kind of character she is because the movie won’t allow her to be defined by her own personality and actions. Think about Amilyn Holdo. If you haven’t read Gray’s “Leia: Princess of Alderaan”, what kind of information about Holdo you got from TLJ? Almost nothing other than being Leia’s friend and a military leader. Her scene with Leia and her sacrifice hints at an interesting character, but she’s only there… doing stuff in the background… I guess. She had as much development as Piett ever had (and Piett was just an Imperial officer doing his job, merely someone who follows Vader’s orders). This overflow of characters means some of them disappears and reappears when the script demands so, or they remain the whole time but they doen’t have an impact in the plot at all. Here’s an example: the betrayal from Del Toro’s character has less impact and consequences that Boba Fett’s presence in TESB, because the final battle from TLJ is just a temporal, annoying obstacle (yes, some Resistance people die, and Luke dies too, but honestly if TLJ’s ending were different, that last thing would have happened too as soon as Luke faced Kylo Ren in IX); whereas without Boba Fett, the last third of TESB would have been completely different. Replace Del Toro with the Imperial probe droid from the beginning of Empire and you’ll have the same movie (heck, why does the FO need such a character to find out the Resistance’s plans? Even if the planet was unknown and uncharted, didn’t they realize the planet they can see from their own windows could be a perfect hiding place?). And yet Del Toro was given more screen time and dialogue than Boba, hinting at a bigger, more important character than the one we got (and yes, I used Boba Fett as an example because Boba is a very minor character with an extremely huge fanbase for no reason; that such a slightly disappointing character with little screen time and dialogue in Empire is way more relevant that Del Toro’s character shows Johnson’s writing skills). And the same can be said about Finn or Rose or even Rey. I don’t know who posted this TFA/R1 review on this forum before, but the criticisms made in this video applies to TLJ as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsIQa7sH5_Y

-The extremely improbable story that doesn’t make any damn sense and feels like it was written by a five year old kid (and then X appears, and then a battle, and then Y happens, and then betrayal, and then an action scene, and then another plot twist, and then Z appears, and then another surprise, and then A dies, and then…). I strongly suspect they can’t no longer make simple Star Wars movies with simple stories like SW (kid goes to a larger than life story, enjoyable stuff happens, the end) or Empire (Vader wants Luke, Luke is training, Leia and Han are in love, the end) because it would be “too boring” and “slow” now. Now you need like five or six stories happening on a 24-hour period, crossing and splitting from each other several times in the movie. TFA was a poor rehash of SW and it was poorly written, but at least it had a relatively simple “Star Wars-y” story. TLJ is a bunch of stuff put together and thrown to the audience. When the movie says Kylo Ren is gonna kill Snoke (the supposely big bad of the sequel trilogy and a character who was given importance in TFA and the earlier scenes of TLJ), I felt like absolutely anything, ANYTHING, could happen. Like, as I said, a story written by a five year old. I don’t expect extremely predictable stories, I like surprises too, but no plot twist every five minutes please.

-No sense of pacing at all. The first battle scene feels like it belong to the middle of the movie. The action is way out of control. But honestly, this is a problem since the prequels. There were parts in TPM (like the podracing scenes) that were too intense for me, but it has gotten way worse over the years. I don’t expect OT-like effects but I don’t understand why every explosion must happen that close to the camera, or why the camera must be moving every two seconds (even when a character is still), or why there must be bazillion CGI particles in every space scene. The OT prefers static cameras and moving starfields and ships (because that’s the best they could do in the eighties). When RotJ has space scenes with the camera tracking/following the fighters, at least it has good reasons to do it (to give the battle of Endor a 3D feeling, because it’s the last movie of the trilogy, because it’s a way bigger event than the battle of Yavin IV and Hoth). When the post-1983 movies do the same, it’s because it’s simple routine. I think this is a mistake, I think an action movie should give more visual information when the scene really demands it.

-The villains aren’t that great. Another problem since RotJ: only in SW and Empire the villains are in (almost) full control of the situation. In this aspect, TLJ is nowhere as bad as TFA, R1 or the prequels, but it’s still a far cry from the Vader who didn’t succeed because he couldn’t predict Artoo would be told about the sabotage of the Falcon by the main computer of Cloud City, or the Tarkin and Vader who allowed the heroes to escape the Death Star. Honestly, I just don’t like Kylo Ren and Hux. And I don’t like this “a villain can be redeemed” crap.

-The comedy is really bad. A few of the comedy bits are better than TFA/R1, but they’re still based on “bizarre stuff happening” and “people delivering punchlines that any other character could deliver too”. SW/TESB weren’t like that, the comedy in those movies came from the characters being themselves and the audience realizing the tropes behind those characters.

Short story: I think TLJ is watchable, but I don’t find it rewatchable.

Post
#1158006
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

chyron8472 said:

CatBus said:

FWIW, I’ve always treated DeEd as “what a respectful Blu-ray transfer would have looked like”, and the various film transfers as “what it actually looked like in theatres” – although obviously a just-struck print would look much cleaner than the prints we’ve been able to find and use. For whatever reason, I still prefer DeEd in the end.

Yeah, I’m not really keen on having a DE that features tons of gate weave, even if the original, release-day theatrical prints had it.

Personally I don’t want the extra grain and/or gate weave from release prints (unless it’s something like 4K77, in which I don’t expect Bluray quality), just something that is the highest quality version of how the original negative was in 1977.

Harmy said:

Congrats Harmy for your dream job!