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GLogus

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18-Apr-2019
Last activity
26-Jul-2021
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Post
#1322114
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Force healing is one thing. It was used to great effect in The Mandalorian after all. But Force revival or resurrection is a dark side power as per Revenge of The Sith. This cannot be overstated, people! Much worse, both (healing and revival) are used lazily in TRoS as a mere plot convenience.

A better movie/ending would be if Kylo and the Knights of Ren were trying to unlock this Sith power all along as a way of resurrecting Sidious and Vader (who also were trying to unlock this power themselves while they were alive), i.e., “I will finish what you started, grandfather.” Kylo and the KoR ultimately succeed in unlocking this power, but as Kylo is using it (or about to use it) to resurrect Vader, Anakin appears to him and confirms that he did in fact turn to the light side before he died—something that Kylo had been deceived by Snoke into believing was a lie. Kylo begins to doubt everything he has been endeavoring to do, but the Knights of Ren do not see things Kylo’s way and are not so easily dissuaded from their goal. Thus, the KoR are determined to press on and resurrect Sidious. They are somewhat successful in doing so as they revive him partially to a very weakened state.

Kylo fights and defeats the KoR after tensions escalate, but Rey is killed by Sidious when he catches her off guard.

Sidious tries to manipulate Kylo (who is not quite turned to the light side yet) and puts him in a position where he can either complete Sidious’ revival using his newfound darkside power (restoring him to full health and power), or revive Rey by the same means. However, reviving Rey all by himself will require him to sacrifice his own life because it will deplete too much of his life force. He revives her anyway and dies, thereby completing his redemption arc. Rey promptly kills a very weak but still formidable Sidious. The end.

Many of the elements to make this version work are already present, but I don’t know what could realistically be stitched together from the source material. However, it would mean a few things that I consider preferable: That only Kylo—with his cult-like devotion to the old ways of the Sith—could resurrect people using Force, not Rey. It would also make Kylo (at least initially) and the Knights of Ren the main villains instead of Sidious, which I think is fitting since the KoR were there in the ST all along just waiting for something relevant to do, yet Sidious rather abruptly came out of nowhere and ruined Anakin’s sacrifice (in this proposed version, it would be more about honoring Anakin’s legacy).

Post
#1322108
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

This is really far out, but what if we took the Reylo thing to the extreme and somehow implied that Rey was carrying Ben’s child? I have no idea how to do this, but it would provide some justification for her suddenly adopting the Skywalker name if the baby inside her was the sole heir in the Skywalker bloodline. Just a thought.

Post
#1316312
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I’m not a faneditor myself, but I’m a big believer that a well crafted fan edit can make a bad movie good and a good movie great. The prequels are some of my favorite films thanks to the efforts of faneditors like Hal9000, q2, seciors, and l8wrtr to name but a few. I also think TLJ greatly benefited from poppasketti’s thoughtful edits.

Despite not being a faneditor, I will offer my two cents on TRoS and the sequel trilogy as a whole. I think a successful fanedit of TRoS and perhaps the entire trilogy is completely doable. The challenge with TRoS is that so many fanedits work primarily by being subtractive rather than additive, i.e., removing what you don’t like or doesn’t work and leaving the rest to shine.

But TRoS already plays out like a bad fanedit as Harmy pointed out in his review. It’s rushed and disjointed, and it feels like too much was cut out as it is. Nonetheless, I don’t think all hope is lost.

The main problems with TRoS are that it lacks thematic consistency with itself and the other films in the trilogy. Also problematic is the fact that the movie lacks internal logic, taken both as a single movie and as part of a trilogy. Lastly, it has a lot of plot contrivances which JJ Abrams is known for.

I’m not a fan of trying to add a bunch of new shots and effects as others are suggesting, unless they come from actual extended and deleted scenes belonging to the films. I believe “less is more” is the right approach. I’m also not a big fan is radically changing the director’s initial intent for the film. Reining in some of the director’s excesses, yes, but this is about honoring the director’s vision, not stomping all over it. I think a conservative and thoughtful approach is the best path.

I think the a good fanedit of the three sequel trilogy films should include five overarching goals:

First, the films simply need to fit better with each other. TLJ tries to undo what was established in TFA, and TRoS in turn tries to undo what was established in TLJ. We need a trilogy that smooths this out so everything flows together. There is a lot in TRoS that probably needs to be foreshadowed in TFA (primarily that Palpatine lives), and conversely, there’s a lot set up in TFA that doesn’t go anywhere and needs to be dropped (her force vision is particularly problematic because it hints heavily at her coming from noble Jedi lineage, likely a Kenobi or a Skywalker). I don’t think there is anything wrong with strongly implying that Rey is a Palpatine right from the outset, and it should be clear that Kylo Ren is lying or not telling the whole truth when he tells her she’s a nobody. Let’s cut to the chase: Rey isn’t afraid that she’s a nobody; she’s afraid she’s pure evil.

Second, character motivations need to be streamlined and clarified, especially in TRoS. It needs to be clearer what these characters want and what they’re doing to get it. God only knows what Palpatine wanted in TRoS. First he wants Kylo to kill Rey. Then he wants Rey to kill him. Then he just wants to suck the life force out of both Rey and Kylo. And then Rey does kill him, but apparently it’s a good thing??? I mean, what the hell?

Third, there’s also thematic inconsistences both within and among the films that need to be corrected. For example, in TLJ when Finn tries to sacrifice himself for the greater good=bad. Yet, even Holdo does the exact same thing=good. Seriously??? More problematic, however, is Force healing, and especially Force reviving. Bringing people back to life using the Force is a SITH endeavor, people! RoTS not only dealt extensively with this, but Palpatine even alludes to it again in TRoS. On the other hand, the Jedi way is to accept when a person is dead and be at peace with it. When Ben revives Rey, he is acting like a Sith would! The act is not redemptive at all. Not to mention all this force healing is Deus Ex Machina overload. It also lowers the stakes: “No one’s ever really gone” when you can just force heal people back into existence.

Fourth, there are a ton of plotholes throughout but especially in TRoS that need to be resolved. So much of it just doesn’t make any damn sense. There are also a lot of contrivances (which Abrams is known for). Abrams does this to artificially raise the stakes, but it never pays off. Chewie’s dead, except he’s not. 3PO gets his mind wiped, except it’s soon fully restored. Kylo is mortally wounded, only to be healed, even though “THAT’S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS!” Rey is killed, only to come back to life. Nothing carries any real weight in this film. Also, the Star Destroyers having Death Star technology is completely unnecessary and stupid. A huge fleet of Star Destroyers without death star tech is still scary as hell.

Fifth, a good fanedit tries to bring to the fore what is actually good about a film. For all three films, the themes relating to identity and legacy are interesting and compelling and ultimately what the ST is all about. A competent fan edit wouldn’t obscure this but rather shed more light on it. The relationship between Kylo and Rey was always interesting (although I will say that the kiss at the end is a little much…“Reylo” should not be a thing. In Rey’s eyes, more or less, Kylo is just the guy who murdered Han Solo. She should always despise him at least a little bit).

So, to recap:

  1. Properly set up key events in later films early on, esp. Rey is a Palpatine and that Palpatine may be alive. Also, downplay or excise set up that didn’t go anywhere, ex. Knights of Ren.
  2. Make character motivations clearer and less muddied, esp. Palpatine. Also, who is Snoke, and what does he want? What is the First Order, and what does it want? Etc.
  3. Make sure themes are consistent and don’t contradict each other, ex. bringing people back to life opposes Jedi values and so is a huge contradiction.
  4. Remove plotholes where possible (and leave them alone when removing them would prove too much a hassle) and eliminate contrivances that don’t actually raise the stakes, ex. Star Destroyers with Death Star tech.
  5. Emphasize what’s already good about the sequel films.

In practice I think this means radically rearranging all three films so that you might have parts of TRoS in TFA and TLJ. Or, likewise, parts of TLJ in TFA and TRoS. For example, perhaps it would be helpful for Luke to overcome his cynicism earlier, or to have Snoke die only after we find out Palatine is still alive. I might make some rough edits just as proof of concept that it can be done (again, I am not a fan editor), but for now these are just my general ideas on how this could be achieved.

Post
#1303756
Topic
The Last Jedi: Legendary (Released)
Time

Tobar said:

GLogus said:

Luke’s instinct is to destroy the texts, and Yoda confirms that this instinct is correct. The texts were dry and boring and what really matters is the Force itself, because it alone will guide you. Rey needs to look forward, not backward, if she is to succeed.

But Yoda didn’t destroy the texts, they’re aboard the Falcon at the end of the film.

True, but the point still stands that they are not as important as he assumed.

Post
#1303102
Topic
The Last Jedi: Legendary (Released)
Time

The joke also holds meaning, thematically. Luke tells Rey that the legacy of the Jedi is failure. Despite this rather cynical assessment, it is heavily implied in RotS and especially The Clone Wars that the Jedi fell because they lost their way. The Jedi texts symbolize that failure because part of the problem was that the Jedi had become too rigid and dogmatic in their thinking; they had lost touch with the Force and were relying on tradition instead. They were essentially blind, which is why Palpatine was able to scheme behind their backs.

Luke’s instinct is to destroy the texts, and Yoda confirms that this instinct is correct. The texts were dry and boring and what really matters is the Force itself, because it alone will guide you. Rey needs to look forward, not backward, if she is to succeed. It is a powerful lesson and NOT MCU-style humor at all.

On a similar note, Luke tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder basically represents the same theme. Luke is done with the Jedi Order. Tossing the lightsaber was intended to startle the viewer and make a strong impression, not make them laugh. The viewer is left flabbergasted, simply asking why he would do such a thing. But again, this is merely a continuation of themes brought forth in RotS, which I predict will extend into TRoS.

Post
#1302294
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Another Happy Sanding. (a WIP)
Time

Wondering what the status is on this project and if it will ever come to fruition.

I am generally in favor of conservative edit of Ep 3. Hal9000’s is quite good, but I think it was a mistake to try to have Padme live by adding scenes from The Other Boleyn Girl.

I currently watch L8’s version as my go-to edit. However, one thing I strongly dislike is Anakin killing the younglings. I think it makes him irredeemable in Ep 6 and is also too dark for a Star Wars film. The security footage of him killing much older children gets the point across and is more palatable.

I also think people should get over the whole “Yoda shouldn’t wield a lightsaber.” He’s a Jedi; he knows how to wield a lightsaber. He does so all throughout The Clone Wars. It’s canon.

But those are just my thoughts. I feel like people are far less critical of the PT than they were even a few years ago, and thus a carefully crafted “conservative” edit is in order.