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FrederikOlsen

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Join date
16-Sep-2011
Last activity
10-Sep-2022
Posts
134
Web Site
http://frederik.tidalforce.dk

Post History

Post
#1491120
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

theprequelsrule said:

To give credit where credit is due; Vader speaking sometimes as Vader and sometimes as Anakin at the end of their 3rd (!?!?!?!?!?!) duel was inspired.

This series reinforced that Hayden can act if given the chance.

Say what you will about this show, but Hayden clearly received better direction this time. The two decades worth of experience probably helped too, though it’s my understanding he has all but retired from acting in favour of farming.

I thought it was a thrill to see him as both Anakin again, and as Vader. The dialogue after the final duel was an excellent Star Wars moment, in part because Ewan and Hayden still have great chemistry together after all these years. I don’t want Obi-Wan to meet Vader again in a potential season 2, but I wouldn’t mind a storyline following Hayden as Vader, or even more PT flashbacks. He did an excellent job.

As I’ve mentioned earlier in this thread, I was never a fan of the PT, even when those films came out, but this show has recontextualised them to a degree where I’m honestly starting to feel nostalgic for them.

Post
#1490486
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

MalaStrana#2 said:

henzINNIT said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

FrederikOlsen said:
It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO.

ANH is considered one of the best scripts ever written. It’s still being studied in film school for ts achievements, thanks to Lucas rewitting it to perfect it numberous times. TESB is simply the continuation of this high quality standard rooted in the foundation of a perfect script. Only what came after wasn’t as good and was sometimes even quite terrible, such as this tv show.

The original Star Wars was saved in editing by cutting great chunks out of that script.

I see the consequences of an interesting YouTube video… you confuse the script quality and the final movie. SW wasn’t saved through editing : editing made it better.
I can’t believe on this forum that we need to explain why ANH is a tremendous script 😅

Well, it is true that the script devoted a lot of pages to duff scenes like Luke and Biggs at Anchorhead, Luke and 3PO in the speeder, redundant lines that would draw out dialogue (“Right now I don’t feel too good…”), dialogue that was so awkward that even the actors lobbied for its removal, and even some dialogue scenes that were paced really oddly until being rearranged at the 11th hour, like Obi-Wan and Luke in the former’s hut. I don’t think it’s heresy to say that the script has its problems. That just makes one appreciate all the stuff it gets right.

What I really do admire Star Wars for, script-wise, is how perfectly it uses The Hero’s Journey to tell its story, and how Lucas starts the film in medias res to make a galaxy that feels huge and could only really become smaller from that point on.

We’ve never seen the franchise doing something that brave since, though with what he’s saying in interviews, Taika Waititi may also go for that approach.

Post
#1490419
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Servii said:

“Star Wars was always poorly written” is an argument I really take issue with. If the original film were poorly written, none of us would even be here with our attachment to this franchise.

To be fair, assuming you refer to my post and the outrage it seems to have sparked, I never said Star Wars was poorly written. I said it’s not the most well-written franchise, and I stand by that. Lots of things were clearly made up on the go and the first film was more or less saved in editing.

There may not be anything as egregious as Reva’s inexplicable escape in the OT, but I’ll be damned if the Obi-Wan Kenobi haters would have accepted “from a certain point of view” or the passionate kiss between Luke and Leia followed by the revelation that they’re siblings and one party has “always known” if either of those happened in a current series or film franchise.

Post
#1490296
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

It’s no different than every single James Bond villain informing their nemesis of their grand plan, only to leave him alive so he can make his escape and foil it. Or elderly Obi-Wan somehow thinking that lying through his teeth to manipulate Luke will make him want to become a Jedi and confront the Emperor. Even if Obi-Wan’s story about Vader killing Anakin only became a lie retroactively, people have been clutching at an explanation for decades.

If you’re expecting writing better than THAT from Star Wars, you were probably going to be disappointed no matter what Obi-Wan Kenobi did. The bad guys are very bad, and they wear evil, black robes and threatening helmets to denote that, and the good guys are very good. It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO. And I say that as someone who loves the OT dearly, but the visual effects, the music and the acting have all stuck with me more than the scripts.

To me that’s a straw man just like people said “Star Wars dialogue has always been bad” after the release of the PT. This show has set a new low for lapses in logic, and weak and lazy writing, and no this has not always been the case for the franchise.

It’s the same with Reva’ reappearance on Tatooine. People will say, that many Star Wars characters have come back from the dead. Anakin and Maul survived, why can’t Reva? Which to me is a really baffling argument. The point is not, that she survived (although there is little tension in a franchise, where death is treated like a running gag). The point is that Reva being stabbed has next to no consequences. Anakin had to be rescued and put in a suit to survive. Maul went mad and it took years to get his mojo back. Reva gets stabbed in the stomach, which if not lethal, should at the very least be a debilitating wound, but no she jumps up and flies of to Tatooine, and other than a moment where she appears to be a little sensitive to the touch, she’s fine. It’s just patently ridiculous. Star Wars used to have stakes. Now it’s just spinning its wheels.

I will concede that Reva’s swift recovery was dumb. There may be a sound canonical reason for the Grand Inquisitor’s survival, but surviving a lightsaber to the stomach is nuts. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, Qui-Gon must have been insanely unlucky, cause apparently, no one dies from that. I would probably have accepted it if she had been in more obvious pain (Kyle Ren’s bowcaster wound springs to mind), but she even manages to make a run for Luke!

I’m fine with Obi-Wan leaving Vader alive because of shock, trauma or whatever, but yeah, Reva should either have died at the hands of Vader, or they should have handled her survival very differently.

Post
#1490292
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

It’s no different than every single James Bond villain informing their nemesis of their grand plan, only to leave him alive so he can make his escape and foil it. Or elderly Obi-Wan somehow thinking that lying through his teeth to manipulate Luke will make him want to become a Jedi and confront the Emperor. Even if Obi-Wan’s story about Vader killing Anakin only became a lie retroactively, people have been clutching at an explanation for decades.

If you’re expecting writing better than THAT from Star Wars, you were probably going to be disappointed no matter what Obi-Wan Kenobi did. The bad guys are very bad, and they wear evil, black robes and threatening helmets to denote that, and the good guys are very good. It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO. And I say that as someone who loves the OT dearly, but the visual effects, the music and the acting have all stuck with me more than the scripts.

Post
#1490288
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Post
#1490143
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

DrDre said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

timdiggerm said:

What on earth was going on with the spaceship movements? That was awful

Haha, to some it was “incredible and harkened to the opening of ANH …awesome poetry!”

And I just don’t get it. To me, there was no care brought to any aspect of the story and visuals. This should have been their chance of committing excellence to such a bold idea. I fear for the future of SW…people are praising this show up and down.

Yes, some are calling this duel one of the best in the saga, and while it certainly had a number of cool moments, I felt (like in episode 3 of the series) the duel had no rythm. There was something very chaotic in the way the lightsaber duels were shot.

I liked that duel, but “one of the best” is definitely pushing it. Without the conceit of Hayden and Ewan facing off again, it probably wouldn’t be regarded as very special. The aftermath may well be one of my favourite Star Wars moments, though - even if Rebels did the broken mask first.

Post
#1489968
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

adywan said:

FrederikOlsen said:

I enjoyed this show. It wasn’t a masterpiece, but I don’t think it set out to be. But the vigour with which some viewers will look for “plot holes”, particularly in something as oft-patchy as Star Wars, is getting ridiculous.

But no one needed to vigorously look for problems, they were there in plain sight. That’s the problem with this show.

It really depends, I think. There’s no continuity problems within the Vader lines that were called out, so that’s definitely reaching. But of course the show has problems. In my opinion, the dark cinematography is one, as is the very, very quick redemption of Haja and no one being able to carry out a fatal stabbing with a lightsaber. Qui-Gon must have been very unlucky.

I don’t view any of those issues as major deal breakers. I probably have bigger pet peeves in every instalment of the Skywalker Saga. If anyone else does, that’s perfectly fine. It’s the part of trying to win others over - and I’m not saying you’re doing this - that I really don’t get.

Post
#1489959
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

MalaStrana#2 said:

FrederikOlsen said:

You didn’t even counter my argument

Because you don’t provide any substance to anything. You just read the issues regarding continuity without noticing all the rest. You should read the film crit hulk paper as he is way better than me to address the overall issues with this show and with current Star Wars.

On my side I won’t lose time arguing about the show inner consistencies with fans creating their own patches of what the writers of the show didn’t think about making clear and square.

You know, ANH is a very clear and simple movie. This clarity took a hell of time and talent. Something this show is just millions of miles away at every single level. You can like it I don’t really care. This show is insulting to Star Wars and to storytelling and represents everything which is wrong with most of modern productions, not just Star Wars.

So imagine how interested I am of talking back your arguments for a specific line of dialogue that would be explained because A led to B and along C there was D to explain E could make F be G…

I didn’t create my own patch. Anakin becoming Darth Vader and only identifying as such between Episode III and VI is literally right there, in the films and in the series.

It seems to upset you that I’m content enjoying this Star Wars series for what it is - massively inferior to the 1977 film, but still very entertaining and successful at doing what it sets out to do - without bothering to go all pseudo-analytical on it or listening to what some online critic has to say so I can become one of the enlightened haters. I didn’t address any of the other “problems” because they don’t bother me to the extent that you seem to think they should.

In that light, I am admittedly finding it hard to imagine why you wouldn’t want to waste time on providing a counterargument, cause you seem to be into wasting plenty of time on pointless gatekeeping already…

Post
#1489955
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Ava G. said:

Agreed, it would be fun to see a movie edit of the series. I’d love an extra movie to watch to bridge the trilogies.

I won’t write a full review, because I’m tired. But I will say that the finale was awesome, and made me emotional.

The end of that duel. OMG. Vader was the pitiable and broken horror villain Lucas always wanted him to be viewed as.

Obi-Wan goes through so much character development and finally transforms into the wise and hopeful Alec Guinness version.

I’ll admit, watching Obi-Wan’s eyes get teary when he saw Anakin’s broken face got to me. At its best, that scene included, Obi-Wan Kenobi has recontextualised the PT for me to a point where I’m cool with it. I don’t consider them very good films, but just months ago, I was basically in the “deny they exist” camp.

I’m not 100% into Leia and Obi-Wan having this close a relationship when her hologram in Star Wars makes no reference to that, but I can live with it. It’s no worse than the passionate kiss between siblings where one party has “always known”, Yoda supposedly training Obi-Wan, or Leia remembering her real mother. Some backpedaling is to be expected with Star Wars, and it’s been that way since 1999, really.

I would also have wished the cinematography would’ve been brighter. Dark scenes are fine, but this was the climax! But I’m noting this is a trend with shows that are shot and processed for HDR in general. Hopefully it’ll pass eventually.

Post
#1489952
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

MalaStrana#2 said:

FrederikOlsen said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Vader, episode 3: « I am what you made me. »

Vader, episode 6: « You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin. »

This fucking show isn’t even internally consistent. It’s incredible how badly written this shit is…

(Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂)

Anakin already identified as Darth Vader by the time he fought Obi-Wan in ROTS, meaning that Vader’s physical state is indeed Obi-Wan’s handiwork. There’s nothing remotely inconsistent about those two lines. It’s Obi-Wan who keeps calling Vader “Anakin”. Vader himself is pretty adamant about that guy being gone, even before he suits up.

I enjoyed this show. It wasn’t a masterpiece, but I don’t think it set out to be. But the vigour with which some viewers will look for “plot holes”, particularly in something as oft-patchy as Star Wars, is getting ridiculous.

Nothing is as ridiculous that people actually defending this failed cheap tvshow. But again I’m glad I can finally move on. If they fuck up something as important as a DIRECT prequel to the most important piece of cultural phenomenon of the last 50 years, I don’t see how Disney can ever do something even remotely watchable.

You like that, good for you. It just ain’t Star Wars : just a mere product to keep subscriptions going on a steaming platform. This is what Star Wars has become. A tv show that bears nothing.

« Star Wars means nothing to me » is what fake Vader could say to fake Palpy.

Hulk nailed it again :

https://www.patreon.com/posts/68130106

It’s “Star Wars” because it says “Star Wars” on it and Disney owns Star Wars. It may not be the kind of Star Wars you enjoy, and fair enough, but at the end of the day, it’s still Star Wars.

You didn’t like it and that’s okay. But don’t begin with the “plot hole” stuff when it clearly doesn’t hold up. You didn’t even counter my argument - you just moved on to the next hyperbolic reason why we should all hate this show (now it isn’t even Star Wars) and I’m pretty sure you’ll hit me with a third reason when replying to this post.

Post
#1489941
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

MalaStrana#2 said:

Vader, episode 3: « I am what you made me. »

Vader, episode 6: « You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin. »

This fucking show isn’t even internally consistent. It’s incredible how badly written this shit is…

(Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂)

Anakin already identified as Darth Vader by the time he fought Obi-Wan in ROTS, meaning that Vader’s physical state is indeed Obi-Wan’s handiwork. There’s nothing remotely inconsistent about those two lines. It’s Obi-Wan who keeps calling Vader “Anakin”. Vader himself is pretty adamant about that guy being gone, even before he suits up.

I enjoyed this show. It wasn’t a masterpiece, but I don’t think it set out to be. But the vigour with which some viewers will look for “plot holes”, particularly in something as oft-patchy as Star Wars, is getting ridiculous.

Post
#790520
Topic
Would you want to see Anakin or Obi Wan in the new trilogy, portrayed by their PT actors?
Time

SilverWook said:

FrederikOlsen said:

Hal 9000 said:

I wouldn't mind if Vader appears in Rogue One with Hayden kickin' around inside the suit, if he really wants to. But Hayden in the sequel trilogy doesn't compute.

Even if Vader appears in Rogue One, why use Hayden? He may have buffed up for the prequels, but his scene as the masked Darth Vader made it very clear that he's no David Prowse.

I agree that I don't really want him to appear in the sequel trilogy. Partly because I'm not a fan of his performance, even though I believe Lucas' inept direction to be partially responsible, and partly because Anakin's story has been told.

 If it's little more than a cameo in Rogue One, getting Prowse back in the Vader suit would be a nice way for the new regime to put all those years of acrimony with George to rest.

Yeah, provided they have any interest in doing that. But yes, giving Prowse the chance to return to the role would be the decent thing to do.

Bingowings said:

Old Dave isn't young anymore.

Neither is Peter Mayhew. I'm assuming Vader will act much like he first did in ANH, and not run around and bounce off the damn walls like some PT reject. Prowse appears to be mobile enough for that...

Post
#790507
Topic
Would you want to see Anakin or Obi Wan in the new trilogy, portrayed by their PT actors?
Time

Hal 9000 said:

I wouldn't mind if Vader appears in Rogue One with Hayden kickin' around inside the suit, if he really wants to. But Hayden in the sequel trilogy doesn't compute.

Even if Vader appears in Rogue One, why use Hayden? He may have buffed up for the prequels, but his scene as the masked Darth Vader made it very clear that he's no David Prowse.

I agree that I don't really want him to appear in the sequel trilogy. Partly because I'm not a fan of his performance, even though I believe Lucas' inept direction to be partially responsible, and partly because Anakin's story has been told.

Post
#789839
Topic
More OUT Rerelease Rumors from John Landis!
Time

I agree. There's no reason for Disney to add new changes, whereas with George, tweaking the films became a self-contradictory, personal crusade. I reckon we're now stuck with the 2011 editions as the "canonical" ones.

From a business perspective, it'd actually make more sense for Disney to redact some of the more recent changes; would a casual fan who's happy with the 2011 Blu-rays care who shoots first, or whether R2 hides behind a rock outcropping? Probably not, but I'm sure removing the most egregious SE changes would have a few more die-heards reaching for their wallets...

Post
#786025
Topic
Star Wars: Rogue One - * Non Spoiler Discussion Thread *
Time

Peter Cushing to be digitally recreated in new spin-off Rogue One

I'm not sure whether to call BS or not. The plans to digitally recreate Cushing aren't exactly new. George tried doing the same thing for Episode III. But the bit about Tarkin having "created Darth Vader" has me scratching my head.

Either this is a sham, or Disney are actually going to retcon at least parts of the prequels. It's likely to be the former, but boy do I hope it's the latter...