SilverWook said:
IIRC, Mr. Smithee was retired once too many people became aware of his body of work. ;)
Not sure who has replaced him.
George Lucas
pittrek said:
Return Of The Ewok - what is the best available source for this ? I have OCP's version which looks pretty shitty and is a mixture of 2 sources, did a better version appear somewhere ?
I think this is the best copy of the complete version. But a shorter, better looking version was released through the SW.com website.
Harmy said:
Hey guys. Here's a new video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R71JMkjn4oI
Big thanks to Laserswert for helping with cleaning up the JSC video.
So you used the JSC to improve the shot? Very nice.
hairy_hen said:
Also, the current version is synched to the GOUT in NTSC, but the two most prominent preservation projects, Harmy's and dark_jedi's, are timed to the PAL version. The NTSC is missing two frames compared to the PAL at the scene change from Dagobah to the rebel fleet, so on both projects there is a noticeable loss of synch at the point: from then on the audio is two frames in advance of the video, which is more objectionable than if it were a delay. I would have pointed this out before, but unfortunately I'd forgotten about it. So really this should be corrected.
Since all of the other soundtracks used by Harmy and DJ are timed to the NTSC version, I would imagine all of the soundtracks for ROTJ - not just your 70mm recreation - would be out of sync.
Maybe the best fix for this issue should be for Harmy and DJ to add the 2 frames back in.
FrederikOlsen said:
I'm not sure how the 3D versions will be received if some of these almost universally loathed changes stay in it.
"Hey, it's Star Wars in 3D!!!"
(Spaceballs the flamethrower)
kenkraly2007 said:
I wish some of you would stop calling star wars fans who go to websites like TFN or relbelsum.com Lucas apologists their good sources for star wars news of all of kinds.
FYI, the Rebelscum forums don't seem to be filled with apologists. About a month ago I checked their thread on the Blu-rays, and a lot of people were complaining about the lack of OT theatrical versions.
Wexter said:
About LFL - either they are indeed a bad company consisting of bunch of amateurs or they are fucking liars (lairs, for mentally challenged). These are the only two possible explenations of their (mostly Lucas') claim that the cleaned up original footage has been altered without backing up the original form. Who does that? Someone, who has no clue what they are doing.
I get the impression some people at LFL are not happy with the treatment the OT gets. I can't remember the details, but at one of the recent press events for the Blu-rays, 2 LFL spokesmen implied they preferred the original versions. Remember: most people at LFL probably grew up on the original theatrical versions.
Lucas seems to be a "my way or the highway kind of guy", and the LFL employees know that. And they are just so excited to be working for Lucas, that they dare not endanger that opportunity.
Not over the sound of the money in their pocket.
canofhumdingers said:
none said:
Erikstormtrooper wrote: I don't understand why the LOC can't copy the existing older prints they have of Star Wars.
First off, Copyright prohibits them.
The LoC can't do anything until copyright expires on a work. They might be able to do things in house without telling anyone, but they can't tell anyone and they can't tell anyone. And if it did get out that they were reproducing anything prior to copyright expiration, heads would roll.
I'm not entirely sure that's true... If it's on the National Film Registry I think they might be allowed to duplicate/preserve it without the copyright owner's permission. But don't quote me on that as I'm not 100% positive.
Of course, if they can legally preserve/duplicate it, they still wouldn't be allowed to make copies for distribution.
I do know for certain that they are legally allowed to screen anything in their collection publicly, copyright or not, so long as it's screened for free at the LoC's theater facilities.
Zombie's article stated that a private collector had leant his personal technicolor print to the LOC, to see if they could make a copy. It turned out they couldn't, so the print was returned to the collector. So if they can try to copy a print of questionable legality, how's that any different from trying to copy a print they already have that's protected by copyright?
I'm not talking about copies that they could distribute or even screen. I'm talking about copies that would prolong the life of their archival prints, since Lucas refuses to give them a copy of the film in better condition.
I don't understand why the LOC can't copy the existing older prints they have of Star Wars.
I went through SW-DeEd again with a fine-tooth comb. I made a few notes about things that might still need some tweaking. I admit some of these are very minor.
43:20-43:25 - A faint white box is visible in the background sky that shows where the ronto used to be. Maybe you can do some kind of horizontal blend that will hide this?
1:06:25-1:10:01 - DS control room. I think you tried to increase the greens in this scene to match the technicolor prints. It's hard to pinpoint, but some shots look pushed a little too far, like the one where Han walks away from the window. Luke's side of the room looks a little better. The final shot of the droids at 1:10:01 seems to have too much red or yellow.
During the Obi-Wan & Vader duel, some of the colors on Obi-Wan look a little too contrasted. I know you tried to fix some issues with his robe appearing gray at times, but I wonder if you went too far. Another weird thing: sometimes, you can see the colors of his robe change vibrancy as he backs away from the camera.
1:42:23 - The edges of the tactical display table are too blue. This was recently pointed out somewhere around here. I think this happens every time we have a close-up shot of this table.
During the final Yavin battle, the main problem is the twinkly stars from the GOUT shots. Not all of the GOUT shots are really an issue, since they go by very quick or are moving. I know you tried to fix some of them, so I don't know if you can do any more. I almost wonder if it would be better to replace the GOUT stars with HD stars that are non-original. Not as authentic, I know, but they might be less distracting. Here's are the star shots that could use some improvement.
1:42:53 - stars: fighters lock s-foils
1:43:11 - (not stars) the fighter engines are too pink. The original engines seem to be a mix of white, pink, and red, but they're all pink here. I think this was an SE error.
1:43:23-1:43:26 - stars: 2 shots where the x-wings dive toward the DS
1:44:45 - stars: x-wing does a roll
1:46:27 - stars: TIE viewport
1:46:37 - stars: Y-Wing dive
And here's a very picky question: Would it be possible to replace the GOUT stars during the end credits? The stars don't twinkle, but they're very fat and GOUT-ish. This would definitely only be worth the effort if it's a quick fix. Manual rotoscoping isn't worth it for the credits.
And lastly, thanks a million times for making this!
Agreed, Puggo. That was awesome.
One day, we'll see a documentary like this about Star Wars.
I think it has more to do with the fact that we refuse to worship Lucas the God.
The DVDactive review for ROTJ is up:
http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd/star-wars-episode-vi-return-of-the-jedi3.html
I'm really starting to wonder if he's trolling all of humanity. Maybe he's doing this to prove a point about preservation.
But probably not.
Erikstormtrooper said:
Asshole!
generalfrevious said:
... Yet you call me an asshole, and treat me with hostility and I am sick and tired of it. I came here for solace, and I am harshly criticized every single time...
FYI, I was talking about Lucas. I hope you didn't think I was directing that at you.
Asshole!
I call forth the power of the graph!
DJ, it's true that your project is more in line with a strict interpretation of "preservations", while Harmy's is more of a recreation.
But I don't think Harmy's work qualifies as a fan edit, since that implies his final version is edited according to his own tastes. We all know Harmy's goal is to recreate the theatrical version. I'd call that a "virtual preservation".
Comparisons between Harmy's work and your own are natural. Some people will prefer one, some the other. The goals are the same, although the means are different. People just want to sit down and enjoy Star Wars without all the SE crap.
As long as you explain in your thread that you feel the comparison to a native-HD source is not applicable, I think you're good. You pretty much already do that, as I've seen you say your project is "not for everyone".
h_h, I'm glad you've decided to take this up. I've never had any problems with your first version of the mix, but I can't complain if you want to make it even better. Not picking up on some of the perceived errors makes me feel a bit noobish, but I'm fascinated nonetheless.
Is your final version going to be 2.1 that Satanika will upmix to 5.1?
And do you have any ETA for this? I'm in no rush; I'm just hoping it can make its way to Dark Jedi's and Harmy's latest versions.
mverta said:
Legacy isn't about you or me; it's not about what we have or don't have. It's about honoring Star Wars and preserving history. It's done for Star Wars' sake; for history's sake. That should be a unifying cause. But when it really comes down to it, a lot of so-called fans don't actually care about protecting Star Wars in any meaningful way. They just want the film for themselves, and if they can't have it, they throw a tantrum. They don't rejoice in the fact that such a beautiful piece of work is safe. All they really want to know is what they get or don't get out of the deal. And the irony is, that is the exact attitude which keeps them from having what they want, ultimately.
If someone came to you with the materials to do a Star Wars restoration beyond anyone's wildest dreams, on the condition that you may never share it publicly, what would you do? And if they came to you precisely because of your commitment to keeping it private; to the film itself; to history itself; because of your trustworthiness... what would you do? Turn down the opportunity, or worse, betray that trust and guarantee no future prospects? Doubtful. You'd probably do what I did, which is enjoy the rewards of honor and principle, and let the future - the completely unknown future, by the way - play out as it will.
I document the process for education, entertainment, and celebration of Star Wars. And while this concept seems foreign to some people, it can be gratifying to watch good work happen even if you have nothing directly to gain from it. If you head over to scifi-meshes.com you will see talented 3D artists building amazingly accurate models of Star Wars ships (among other things) which nobody in the end will have any access to. Nobody "gets" anything out of the deal, beyond enjoying the show, celebrating the craft, and learning a lot along the way. For those for whom this concept is foreign and valueless: tough shit. There are plenty of good restorations out there, anyway, so stop whining.
It's not my first rodeo. When I was hired by Lucasfilm to do a new CG R2-D2, I went absolutely nuts with accuracy and detail - measuring, photographing, and documenting original units in the Lucasfilm Archives, and recreating every nuance possible in my CG model. It took, ultimately, 4 years to do. In the end, while it makes its appearance wherever it needs to, nobody "gets anything" for that, either. But I'm proud of the work, grateful to have been given the opportunity, and honored to have made any contribution to the world of Star Wars. That has always been enough for me.
_Mike
Mike, thanks for taking the time to reply to us. Now I understand.
After learning your perspective, it sounds like you're probably doing the right thing. If I were in your shoes, I guess I'd do that too: just do what I can for the present, and hope that the future will get to see my efforts.
It sounds like you're in a difficult position, but if you were able to state some of these things on your site, it might help people understand your decision on distribution. Just something like "I hope one day I will be able to share my completed project with everyone. But unfortunately, because of certain sources, I doubt that will happen."
Mike, I respect your desires - you've clearly stated in the past you have no intentions of distributing your completed project. But I remain confused as to why you won't distribute this.
Also, it can be very frustrating to see your announcements and progress, knowing that it won't ever be seen by those who would appreciate and treasure it. I hope you will reconsider your stance.
CO said:
Sorry guys, but I put my hands up at this point, and these sales figures show that we are not winning the battle. Lucas can do whatever he wants, and I can't come up with a reason in HIS mind that he should remaster the OOT.
Maybe we can't win the popularity contest. But we might be able to sway Lucas if we can create a critical consensus. If too many film critics start clamoring for the originals, it might get too loud to ignore.
I think it's already starting to happen. Just about every review I've read has said, "yeah, it's not the original versions, but it LOOKS GREAT!"
SilverWook said:
I'd wager most consumers aren't even aware of any controversy. Not everyone is as plugged into things as we are. The situation would be the same no matter what movie was involved.
Whether or not most viewers of the Blu Rays notice things have been changed again, only time will tell.
A few months ago I was visiting with my parents, and they asked me if I was excited about the Star Wars movies coming to BD. I said I wasn't really interested since the original theatrical versions weren't included. My own father (who's heard me rant about Star Wars for years) had no idea what I was talking about. A coworker, who claims to be a big Star Wars fan, didn't know about the issue either.
I'd wager that most casual fans of Star Wars don't really know about the changes and the controversy. Sad.
Very cool! Congratulations.
So is bob running a more updated thread over at FE? Anyone have a link?