Emre1601

Oh… yes!

Usually I watch Harmy’s Despecialized. But I’ll be watching 4K83 for the first time tomorrow, on the 40th anniversary for ROTJ, and very much looking forward to it.

Juno Eclipse said:

Emre1601 said:

😄, Juno.

We must all be a little crazy! I forgot to include this in my earlier post:

WookieeWarrior77 said:

Also of note, in this NY Times article from 25 years ago today, it reads,
“But the temptation will be to use effects because they can be used, to revel in technique rather than story. Mr. Lucas’s films have mostly avoided that temptation, but is it possible that with the tinkering in this ‘‘Special Edition,’’ he may have been slightly lured by the dark side of the Force (and its marketing potential)?”

Hmmm…

That is an impressive prophecy about that particular temptation. I found and read the full article:

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/31/movies/star-wars-salutes-a-brave-old-world.html

The author is strong with the Force. Lured by the dark side of the Force, Lucas was. “Let go”, he could not.

That was a pleasant flashback read, and obviously an insightful article. I did re-read your author line post in the voice of Yoda! I am surprised you didn’t include “Begun the unending Special Edition alterations, had”, or a similar line. 😃

I should have thought of that, that is a good one.

Something I thought was cool to read through from the OT Indexes: 10 years of the Special Editions (a 2007 thread)

😄, Juno.

We must all be a little crazy! I forgot to include this in my earlier post:

WookieeWarrior77 said:

Also of note, in this NY Times article from 25 years ago today, it reads,
“But the temptation will be to use effects because they can be used, to revel in technique rather than story. Mr. Lucas’s films have mostly avoided that temptation, but is it possible that with the tinkering in this ‘‘Special Edition,’’ he may have been slightly lured by the dark side of the Force (and its marketing potential)?”

Hmmm…

That is an impressive prophecy about that particular temptation. I found and read the full article:

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/31/movies/star-wars-salutes-a-brave-old-world.html

The author is strong with the Force. Lured by the dark side of the Force, Lucas was. “Let go”, he could not.

A “Return of the Jedi at 40” section in now up on the official website: www.starwars.com/jedi-40th

There is nothing new on there yet, apart from a quiz.

So far it is just old interviews with Denis Muren, or George & Leonard Maltin, clips from the film, old deleted scenes from the blu ray, ROTJ themed recipes, and old ROTJ articles.
 

Maybe there’ll be some new content on there soon? The past “Star Wars at 40” and “Empire at 40” sections did have some interesting new content. So I hope this will too.

Especially as the “Return of the Jedi at 40” panel at Celebration 2023 was so poor and disappointing, apart from Ming-Na Wen.

CatBus said:

I saw them in theaters. I didn’t know the significance of the Special Editions at the time – that the original films from that point forward would be unavailable. I thought they were just a weird alternate edit of the trilogy that would eventually make its way as bonus features onto future home video releases of the trilogy – a moneymaker, because you can charge more for six films than three. DVD was the next big thing in 1997, I figured it was just going to be a cash grab and nothing more. Everyone would be re-buying Star Wars in a couple years on the new format, and they knew it, that’s all. That’s what I thought was the meaning of the “one last time” Faces home video advertisements. Get it one last time… on VHS.

It just didn’t seem… even remotely plausible that things would turn out the way they did, especially given the quality of the edits. And it still didn’t seem plausible for the next decade as they still failed to make a new home video release of the original movies. There must be a plan, I thought. Nobody would actually throw away these beloved classic films.

Shows what I knew then. I’m definitely more cynical now, and see how filmmakers can often be the worst parents of their own creations – first bringing them to life, and then proceeding to destroy them. Although thankfully none are as bad as Lucas.

This is very much how I saw the 1997 SE, and also felt, and assumed at that time.

I recall enjoying them at the cinema. It was another chance to see Star Wars on the big screen. With all these newly fixed and corrected scenes. But even then there were many technical issues left unfixed, or ignored, and it was quite puzzling why some characters had been replaced by CGI, or even added through CGI.

I do understand that for many younger fans this was the first time they saw Star Wars on the big screen. This would be version of Star Wars they grew up with, until the 2004 SE cuts on DVD.
 

It is peculiar to me that the “25 year anniversary” of the 1997 Special Editions wasn’t celebrated more. It was a major event in Star Wars history, and a lot of effort and went into making and explaining them. But for a few articles online from entertainment news websites, the anniversary was barely mentioned on the official Star Wars platforms, and I do not recall seeing documentaries or any new BTS programs on these 1997 releases.

I guess they do not want people to ask why these versions do not exist to experience again outside of VHS or laserdisc (or those awful VCDs). Or then why the unaltered original versions do not exist outside the awful low quality, low effort 2006 bonus disc release.
 

It is a pity for fans of the 1997 Special Edition they cannot watch them in high quality on a modern format, outside of fan preservations. As many others have said before, even as just an option in that “Star Wars Vintage” section on Disney+, with the other de-canoned content.

A low effort, low cost offering for the fans, while showcasing an important marker in Star Wars history.

Superweapon VII said:

I wish Lucas had released his IPs into the public domain and made an effort to convert Lucasfilm into a worker co-op.

💯! I’d love to see that just for LucasArts to have still been a thing all these years. All the quality games, instead of deals with EA, lootboxes, and a scarcity of games for a long long time.

Also to see Lucasfilm strive and challenge themselves more in film and TV, within their own independent ethos.

Anybody have a time machine, or know of a genie that grants wishes for these things?

Superweapon VII said:

This is harsh. But fair.

If I had to choose I prefer the Sequels. Why? For the reasons others have already listed, but also because of a number of Prequel fans and their attitude of being unable for others to simply not enjoy them with ridicule or insult. I don’t want to have to watch 100s hours of additional material that somehow make the the Prequels better, or Ring Theory, or Visual Symmetry, or George’s secret genius, or master plan, or that they were “designed to be that way”, or if you don’t like them you are stupid, uneducated or ignorant, or just don’t understand them. Or watch many 2+ hour YouTube videos by one eyed toxic Prequel fans that will enlighten me and make me now enjoy them: I’ve done all those, and they don’t make the Prequels better or more enjoyable.

That is not all Prequel fans, of course. More are respectful, and appear to enjoy themselves without the need to attack others or try and put them down. And like many other fans of Star Wars can laugh at their own favourite film or series shortcomings, or meme jokes. Although there is a number of toxic PT fans out there, who also idolize George to an unquestioning zealot like degree. If something is not about positive about George, or highlights George’s shortcomings (we all have them, even visionary geniuses!), or praises others for their contributions then it is somehow an affront to George, and there is kind of concerted effort to attack it, Threats or abuse like this, or here, and shown here.

The Sequels have their faults. Lack of coherent plan and story, and TROS itself! But I don’t see many, if any ST fans, behaving like some Prequel fans. Maybe I have just been lucky to not have seen any? And respect to the Prequel fans who don’t behave like bullying aggressive dicks to people who think differently to them, or have different tastes and likes.

And finally, the Sequels are more fun to watch out of the two choices.

But I do wonder if those toxic PT fans and their attitudes online have put me off from watching the Prequels again. Or wanting to watch them again. Sorry for the rant.
 

TL;DR = the Sequels. Though if I had a choice I’d watch something else.
 

Juno Eclipse said:

Edit: Is there an option for a poll on this thread? Seems like this could be suited to a poll? Plus reasons why one trilogy is preferred over the other in the posts.

I do not think this forum has the capability to do polls. A pity for threads like this.

Juno Eclipse said:

“Force Grip” from the Jedi Knight video games is briefly seen in ROTS when Dooku and Obi-Wan fight:

 
or here at 1 minute 12 seconds into this “my powers have doubled since the last time we met” video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLlf5bC1wxg

I’ve seen that many times but never made the connection, and I used the play the game a lot! I was probably still busy laughing at the “my powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count” line, Dooku’s back kick, and Obi somehow not being hurt in any way by the Dooku pulling the stairway onto his hip or stomach.

Disney World is shutting down its $2,500-a-night Star Wars-themed hotel - from NPR
 

'A Star Wars-themed hotel at Walt Disney World is being shut down about a year after opening, the company announced.

The hotel, which is marketed as a two-night immersive experience, will take its last bookings Sep. 28 to 30. New bookings are being paused until May 26 to first accommodate those who made reservations after September.

“We are so proud of all of the Cast Members and Imagineers who brought Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser to life and look forward to delivering an excellent experience for Guests during the remaining voyages over the coming months,” Disney said. “Thank you to our Guests and fans for making this experience so special.”

The two-night packages start at about $4,800 for two people, and go up to $5,299 for two adults and one child and $5,999 for three adults and one child. Prices include lodging, meals and admission to Hollywood Studios.

Upon arriving, guests enter a launch pod to board the Halcyon starcruiser, stay in a room with a space view and are able to interact with the franchise’s characters throughout the ship.’

Did anyone on here go to it? What was it like? I wonder what they’ll do with it now, convert it into a new bunker hotel, or simply knock it down?

These two threads are great for deleted scenes and storyboards for Return Of The Jedi, they do focus more on the space battles, but there is some also stuff on rebel soldiers in the Falcon from deleted scenes.

There may be something in there about the battle footage for the Forest on Endor scenes in the links or storyboards?:

Return Of The Jedi’s ‘Black Friday’ - 22nd November, 1982

Reconstructing the end of ROTJ with Storyboards

Like Juno, I thought we’d one day see more added footage with the Ewoks, Rebels and troopers in one of the Special Editions too.

An interesting hypothesis, Chnnel72.

If it helps you further, with dates, Lucas is on record in August 1977:

‘August 1977, after the release of #StarWars, Lucas stated that Vader massacred the Jedi but Kenobi and Luke’s father Annikin survived’ - https://twitter.com/philszostak/status/1161026993917317120 (Lucasfilm creative art manager & author)

(But he does also say: ‘Darth Vader wasn’t Luke’s father until the second draft of #EmpireStrikesBack in April 1978.’)

 
And according to Marcia Lucas in the recent “Icons Unearthed” documentary:

'The third episode of the docuseries is all about the making of The Empire Strikes Back. George Lucas farmed out the screenplay to science fiction novelist Leigh Brackett, but Brackett passed away after she handed in her first draft. As has been documented in many different sources, Lucas then collaborated with Lawrence Kasdan to rewrite Empire, and it was during this process that the big twist about Vader was invented.

As described by Marica Lucas in Icons Unearthed, George Lucas was struggling to come up with some kind of big twist for Empire’s third act. While stuck, Marcia and George invited screenwriters Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz over for dinner. The couple had worked with George Lucas before, including an uncredited rewrite of A New Hope. When Lucas described his struggles with the Empire story, Huyck joked, “You can always make Darth Vader Luke’s father.”

In her new interviews, Marica Lucas says of this moment, “I kid you not. I don’t know if Willard even remembers saying that. But I remember it.”

According to Marcia Lucas, this offhand comment — even though it was a joke — stuck in the mind of George Lucas, who then, of course, transformed the entire Star Wars saga. Suddenly, retroactively, the whole story of Star Wars became about the Skywalker family and the tragedy of Darth Vader.

There’s no evidence to suggest Marcia Lucas is wrong, either. Brackett’s draft of Empire makes no mention of the secret that Darth Vader was a Skywalker who fathered Luke and Leia. Mark Hamill has also said more than once that the twist of Leia being Luke’s sister was a very late-in-the-game idea.

Marcia Lucas’ revelation that the Darth Vader parentage idea may have come from one of George’s most trusted friends is fascinating. Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck went on to write Howard the Duck and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, neither of which are considered the best that Lucasfilm had to offer. And yet, if Willard Huyck did invent the story of Anakin Skywalker, then suddenly he becomes the most pivotal writer in the entire history of Lucasfilm.’

from https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/darth-vader-luke-father-joke-marcia-lucas

Channel72 said:

Or… why even do the trench run at all? Just align an X-wing at a 90 degree angle to the Death Star surface and fly directly towards the exhaust port. Then fire torpedoes in a straight line into the port. Fire multiple proton torpedoes in case some are intercepted by laser turret fire, or first target the laser turrets themselves. You could fire the torpedoes from a great distance away. A computer-guided torpedo could hit the small exhaust port without a human pilot having to fly anywhere near the Death Star.

There is a line of dialogue about it being “heavily shielded” or “ray-shielded” in the rebel briefing? I took that as the reason why they couldn’t fire at it from distance or closer distances with “line of sight”, though I could be wrong on that, or misinterpreting it? I’ll have to watch go watch it, the whole film, again! 😃

Juno Eclipse said:

They fix the awful Jabba from the 1997 Special Editions for the 2004SE release, they meddle with “Han vs Greedo” for every single release, but they don’t fix this? Maybe they don’t know? Or don’t care?

I don’t think they care. They probably didn’t know until fans like doubleofive pointed it out. But still not care enough to change it.

“according to regular leaker MTTSH, the title of the movie will be Heir to the Empire”:

https://lrmonline.com/news/filonis-star-wars-film-to-be-titled-heir-to-the-empire-barside-buzz/

and the leaker themselves: https://twitter.com/MyTimeToShineH/status/1658472128189186049
 

I hope that is not the title. I can see it being the title. But I really hope it is not.

NeverarGreat said:

Emre1601 said:

NeverarGreat said:

Marooned Biker Scout said:

According to Deadline, production for season 4 of Mandalorian may be delayed due to the writers’ strike.

Why?

A joke based on the lack of quality writing in season 3?

Correct.

😄

Filoni and Favreau both say The Mandalorian is basically “just playing with action figures” often enough!

NeverarGreat said:

Marooned Biker Scout said:

According to Deadline, production for season 4 of Mandalorian may be delayed due to the writers’ strike.

Why?

A joke based on the lack of quality writing in season 3?

It is an interesting idea. Why don’t these X-Wings have the capability to fire backwards too? Or have a rear gun? Or are able to fire chaff or a debris field from the rear like Luthen’s ship did in Andor?

I wonder if people will think that, and for other similar issues, in 100 years when they watch the films. I guess if it doesn’t break the “suspension of disbelief” of being in the moment when watching them it will likely always be accepted?
 

Their thoughts on 005’s gif of the Death Star having a clear line of sight for Yavin IV, from as soon as it entered the system. Only from the 1997 Special Editions onwards, and think “why didn’t they fix that for any of the future Special Edition releases?” or “why didn’t it just blow up the Rebel base before the X-Wings started their assault?”:

Maybe it is like us looking back some of the World Wars II craft that some of the Star Wars ships were based on? Why don’t the smaller planes have a rear gun? Or why not a larger space for more ammunition? Without going into the detail, and immersing yourself to the time of design, the situation they were in, shortage of materials, and how fast they could manufacture them? Most of us have watched WWII films and accepted the logic of it. Unquestioningly? The same as sci-fi, when using earth-like craft?

Up to the point of breaking that “suspension of disbelief” or logic: Battleground Earth type thinking for the lack of logic in that was very noticeable, and pulls the viewer out of the film. There may be other things in the film that had similar issues too!

Maybe ask the admin at “fanedit dot info” on there if they may know of other web sites where they could be?

Or where they got their files from, to look if there are any more options for them?

It is probably down to what daveybjones999 and Channel72 said above.

I would also say it seems some of the high-ups at Lucasfilm probably think of Ewan as being Obi-Wan Kenobi, more than Alec Guinness was. Likely on being the more modern performer, and that is who they have likely worked with. More so in that Ewan was also a producer on the recent Kenobi series too.

It did irk me when director Deborah Chow said this about Ewan - “He to me, is Obi Wan”, in the “Obi Wan Kenobi: a Jedi’s Return” documentary, with an emphasis on “is”.

It also didn’t help that the Kenobi series felt more like a Prequel style series than a bridge between the Prequel Trilogy and the Original Trilogy, and that it was meant to take place half way between the two trilogies in the time line, but it just didn’t feel like that, to me.
 

I did appreciate TFA going to the lengths they did of mixing both Ewan and Alec Guinness voices in TFA, for the “Rey, these are you first steps” line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygFoN3hKi20

Disney Gallery: “The Making of Season 3” is out soon (though still next to nothing for Andor).

I’ll watch this out of curiosity on how they managed to produce something so underwhelming, after a great 1st season, and mixed-middling 2nd season. I do hope it will not full of cliches, PR-speak and “everything is great” type of fluffy interviews.
 

'Take a look behind the scenes of The Mandalorian.

Disney Gallery: The Mandalorian returns with an all-new special, “The Making of Season 3”, streaming June 28 only on
@DisneyPlus’ - https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1658140689098735619

Jake Lunt Davies provides some concept art for designs of B2:

https://twitter.com/JakeLuntDavies/status/1657504747278987264
 

“concept sketches from working for Neal Scanlan’s CFX dept on #Andor. For B2, Tony Gilroy wanted Cassian and Maarva to have both a salvage droid and a family dog - a loyal, tough and solid little machine packed full of tools and gadgets, a Swiss Army knife of utensils 1/3”

 
“that could shuffle round and pop out on demand. My initial take on the dog part of the brief was to literally start playing with the purposeful and squat stance of Spike the bulldog from Tom & Jerry. Other sketches explore the utility aspect with the 2 at the bottom of the 2/3”

 
“page being really close to the final design. Here they are both a stack of cylindrical sections with layers of tech and tools sandwiched in between and riding on caterpillar track modules similar to the ones on the A-LT Utility Droid I designed for Rogue One. 3/3”

“BOB comes up a lot and I can see why. No, not deliberately, but maybe sub consciously? There’s def similarities with the lid of his head tilting but I think a lot of it comes from how beat up B2 looks when he’s older, and that came later after the design was locked.”

I love that droid. That Imperial kicking him over arguably started the uprising on Ferrix!

NeverarGreat said:

I agree that this keeps the film from being a perfect stand-alone, but there is a mitigating factor in that we do see a lightsaber fight so the lightsaber as an object is paid-off. The fact that it belongs to Obi-wan isn’t to troubling to me. Star Wars is a universe of unbounded promise, so giving Luke a weapon that he doesn’t use in a fight only fires the mind to imagine him using it in a future battle against Vader.

I like this take.

A you can be a hero like your father, or be similar to your father, but without the need to actually fight in the same way. Or using methods and weapons that his father did.

That Vader lives, the Emperor is still around, and the Empire not yet wholly defeated, just fires the imagination of those that watched it at that time.

Maybe more so for kids and young adults who didn’t yet know there would be a sequel 3 years in the future. 3 years can seem like a lifetime when you are young.
 

But do I like and enjoy thinking about the “what ifs?” and possible “alternative timelines” for Star Wars. All good fun. 😃

Marooned Biker Scout said:

Mocata said:

Unless there’s a game or an animated series the whole High Republic thing is a non-starter for me. I guess there’s something coming down the line but it should have been first before books and comics… not 3 years later.

Shit, yeah. A couple episodes of Visions, or even animation similar to Galaxy of Adventures or even Forces for Destiny would have made for an appealing visual introduction to the project. To “set the scene” and get more people interested?

I’m surprised they still haven’t done any High Republic era content for Visions, I thought it’d be ideal for this.

As you say, that Eclipse game and Acolyte series is likely just too late in the day for many. One of the many good points about the previous SOTE, 2003 Clone Wars, and TFU “multimedia projects” was that wide choice of media for each project to get fans into it.

Even the popular introductory or “overview” books like The Art of High Republic, The High Republic Character Encyclopedia and The High Republic – An Illustrated Guide to the Galaxy’s Golden Age have only recently been released, or to be released later this year.

It is curious. Maybe something to do with possible delayed distribution due to the pandemic?
 

Perhaps more will be interested in it when the whole publishing part of the High Republic has ended, and they know more of the content to pick and choose what they need, or want?

I think and hope so. Some good talents are involved with these book and comics. Obviously much thought has been into them as well given the large amount of content and crossover stories and characters from in this setting. It will be interesting to see how The High Republic is looked back on in 3-5 years. And also perhaps more fans interested in it and rate it for the reasons you post above.

Mocata said:

Is that the same 1997 dewback or am I imagining things?

That is a good eye!

An image from the 2019 4K/UHD at https://starwarsscreencaps.com/4k-star-wars-episode-iv-a-new-hope-1977/page/14 :