Sign In

Emre1601

User Group
Members
Join date
13-Mar-2022
Last activity
23-May-2022
Posts
72

Post History

Post
#1479850
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

We merely have a different read on what it seemed like you said. That’s okay. We can’t agree on everything and will get a different context to some things.

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I agree Mat Lucas does sound more like Hayden vaguely but I enjoy Matt Lanter’s take on the character slightly more as he made it more of his own.

You obviously have a disconnect between what you thought I said and what I actually said.

Again, please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

I’m not the only one. Darth Malgus had the same read as I did with your initial statement.

And?

How does that change my post above?

I haven’t even read what Darth Malgus has posted yet. So far it has been difficult enough getting you to read, realize, acknowledge and accept responsibility for mistaking what I actually wrote, for what you thought I wrote. “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply done it.

Are we done now? You’re going to read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in? Great. Do you want me to go read Darth Malgus post and reply to him too? If it is okay with you I’ll do this later.

I’m just pointing out that Darth Malgus had a similar read to what you said as I did. That’s all. So it’s not only me who took what you said differently from how you presented it. I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use or how my points about the backlash George and Prequel fans got were a real thing are being claimed as false when it was anything but that. Especially when it equally pushed Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd, and others involved to dark places.

Again, I haven’t read what Darth Malgus has said.

You feel “gaslighted”? Don’t portray the victim. You jumped in after getting what I said completely wrong. Something which you acknowledge, but are somehow looking for excuses for, or to introduce “broader terms”.

As you like posting links to videos for others to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nScN89Klo

Again, a “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply sufficed.

Well I loved the link in good humour. But I do doubt you’ll get a “sorry” from Stardust for completely misunderstanding your posts. And then trying to excuse himself, and trying to make out you’d done something wrong. This is the modern internet for you, even when someone fucks up they rarely say sorry or admit they got things wrong.

Stardust has also done this many times on here, and more people are noticing this too.

Post
#1479530
Topic
Info Wanted:Star Wars Episode 1-6 3D Re Releases
Time

I know very little on 3D Star Wars, but there is a section on the 3D films and also a completed fan project (but nobody has access to it?) in https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/An-Index-Help-Thread-for-Original-Trilogy-Discussion/id/57363 : in the “The Home Releases and Formats of the Original Trilogy”. Maybe there is something in there that may help you?

Post
#1479528
Topic
The Darker tone of Revenge of the Sith - But why?
Time

Many people know George had outlines and ideas for the Prequel films back in the 70’s and 80’s as part of the backstory for the Original films. This is known and not really surprising. These ideas were also not well executed onscreen in the PT for many fans, and as you say are rushed.

Plans also changed over time, of course. Yet many other discrepancies were also needlessly introduced.

From the “Making Of ROTJ” book and Huffington link you posted:

George Lucas [on The Force]: “Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody.”
 

But that doesn’t really have much to do with the dark tone of ROTS that you are asking about. Why do you think the 3 scenes Ken-Obi mentions above were so rushed in ROTS? Or appear so dark in tone?
 

In the countless interviews George has done on Star Wars it is striking nobody asks him why there are so many disconnects, or why he did not follow through some of his outline ideas for the Prequels back in the 80’s, or simply correct the changes he made to them before filming.

As you said: Padme not dying in the early ideas, but then dying on screen in ROTS, contradicting Leia remembering her mother in ROTJ, when ROTS later shows this is not possible.

Lucas: “Yes, so we can bring that out when Luke is talking to her [Leia]; she can say that her mother died when “I was two years old.”

This is quite a simple fix to make if killing Padme was to become a thing in ROTS, but George didn’t adapt the story to go with this change. Yet nobody asks him why? Perhaps because there are so many, and nobody want to open that can of worms?! 😃
 

Many other discrepancies were also needlessly introduced. Or plain “time-travelling revisionism” as listed in the link you posted: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/George-Lucas-Star-Wars-Creator-Unreliable-Narrator-Time-Travelling-Revisionist/id/66986

The depth process is something that was there in among George’s outlined plans and ideas, it is unfortunate he did not see them through. Or give them the attention to detail that any changes in story warranted. Instead it comes off as lazy, disconnected, a little baffling, and incoherent storytelling. And not really “connect them more seamlessly by outlining the dark and dramatic events, so they could tie into each other and therefore flow” - even for the instances which you mention (is it a parallel when a writer uses something similar, or flips something, to what was used some 20 years before? Does it tie into each other and flow? To me, no. But it is good that some people do, and also enjoy them).

In trying to retcon or re-write Star Wars history so many times, George also does himself no credit, making it more difficult to believe or trust his other claims.
 

Have you read “The Secret History Of Star Wars”, jinxfan2? There is some interesting facts and evidence on George’s backstory for what became the Prequels in there. It is very much an eye opening read.

Post
#1479443
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Servii said:

What, out of interest, would you say are some of the discrepancies between the Sequels and the Original Trilogy?

There’s a few I can remember.

Thank you for those.

I admit the second Death Star being so intact took me out of TROS a little for a while. Was there any explanation or “nod” why from JJ or the writers? The DSII remnant we saw just didn’t need to be that large for the purpose it served in TROS.

Post
#1479380
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Servii said:

Emre1601 said:

AspiringCreator said:

Honestly, the Sequel Trilogy is simultaneously to me a great series of films… and some of the most frustrating.

I very much enjoyed reading your post, thank you.
 

One thing I think gets overlooked is that the Sequel films did attempt to pay homage to the Original Trilogy, to try and respect it and its legacy. Whereas George wrote so many inconsistencies into the Prequels, contradicting the OT, it felt anything but that. It was as if George was trying to reinvent Star Wars and his “grand plan”, and was quite happy to diminish the OT at the expense of his Prequel Trilogy to try and achieve this.

When I think of some of the issues that the Sequels have, I try and give them a little more of “a pass” just for that. That respect, and that trying to make three films more in keeping with the Originals, in spirit at least. TFA and TLJ are easier to do this for, and TROS is more difficult, as that is one crazy break neck film with far too much happening too fast for anything to sink in. For me, anyway. As you posted, another year to help production for the film to iron out some of its issues would have helped considerably.

I can’t say I agree. For a few reasons, but also for one major reason: the sequel trilogy made it so that the OT is actually the least important, least consequential of the three trilogies. The prequels show us Palpatine’s rise to power. The sequels show us how he’s finally defeated at the hands of his granddaughter. You could actually skip the OT altogether, since it’s the least relevant to the overarching saga story. Ultimately, Luke and his vision of a revived Jedi Order just ended up being the husk from which Rey and her new version of the Jedi would emerge. And the Skywalkers, while still being fairly important, are no longer the central figures driving the saga. They’re secondary to the Palpatines.

And there are quite a few inconsistencies between the new films and the OT. I’d say about as many as the prequels created.

That is also a good point of view.

The Palpatine Saga!
 

What, out of interest, would you say are some of the discrepancies between the Sequels and the Original Trilogy?

Post
#1479379
Topic
Killing off the original heroes
Time

I was not expecting Han to survive the Sequels before seeing TFA, given Ford’s desire to have the character die previous. But I thought he contributed to TFA and TROS very well.

For Luke in TLJ, his death had a purpose to the story, it was cleverly and memorably executed, and like ken-obi said above it was likely he would come back as a force ghost for the final film.

With Leia and TROS, I think they did the best they could with the little they had to work with, given the circumstances. I would like to one day see the scenes with Leia and Rose in TROS that did not make it into the final cut of the film.

Post
#1479249
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

AspiringCreator said:

Honestly, the Sequel Trilogy is simultaneously to me a great series of films… and some of the most frustrating.

I very much enjoyed reading your post, thank you.
 

One thing I think gets overlooked is that the Sequel films did attempt to pay homage to the Original Trilogy, to try and respect it and its legacy. Whereas George wrote so many inconsistencies into the Prequels, contradicting the OT, it felt anything but that. It was as if George was trying to reinvent Star Wars and his “grand plan”, and was quite happy to diminish the OT at the expense of his Prequel Trilogy to try and achieve this.

When I think of some of the issues that the Sequels have, I try and give them a little more of “a pass” just for that. That respect, and that trying to make three films more in keeping with the Originals, in spirit at least. TFA and TLJ are easier to do this for, and TROS is more difficult, as that is one crazy break neck film with far too much happening too fast for anything to sink in. For me, anyway. As you posted, another year to help production for the film to iron out some of its issues would have helped considerably.

Post
#1478859
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

henzINNIT said:

I would also like to see more evidence of RJ ‘screaming’ and his ‘tantrums’ because the above looks remarkably calm and playful in the face of the absolute bile we all know he received then and probably still receives.

The pic doesn’t provide proper context, nor even the start of that particular exchange. Almost as if it was selected specifically to make him look as bad as possible. And you’d only be shocked and disgusted by the ‘deek’ references if you were to assume he made them unprompted, which is obviously not the case. You don’t have to search through the tweets to know he’ll be playing with terms he was submerged in at the time.

I completely agree with this. With Darth Retcon too when he says:

Darth Retcon said:

It is just me questioning whether there was anything actually online from RJ much worse than that twitter thread you posted? This is just because of the microscope he was under from a section of fandom at the time, who were looking for anything online to further undermine him or throw his way. If there was anything found at the time it shouldn’t be too difficult to find now as it would be still up on the TFM or tabloid style sites and platforms. Or posts that are still up to see on Rian Johnson’s twitter.

If such twitter posts do exist as claimed, they would be very well known, and probably still used to beat Rian Johnson or TLJ over the head with even today. Nobody would need to dig through 4chan or dead forums to find them.

Post
#1478597
Topic
LEGO 'Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga' video game thread
Time

jedi_bendu said:

https://youtu.be/xMnqT1UTXPk
Is LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Too Short!?

Is that your video? I enjoyed it and it raised some good points.

The open world aspect of this is something that I’m really looking forward. And like the guy in the video says about the Story Mode: Bring on Babu Frik vs Palpatine for the final battle!

Post
#1478012
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

An actual traditional style review of the Sequel Trilogy, discussing the pros and cons of the three films, story pluses and issues, characters and plot, all in a civil manner. Even if we don’t all agree.

Was the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy Good? A Retrospective”, from the At-AT Chat YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBghhYdVFf8 : the video is 26 minutes long.
 

Too few of these traditional and civil videos exist for my liking, I wish similar review videos were as popular or as promoted during the era of the ST films. Instead the Fandom Menace, hate-filled or politicized agenda videos were.

 

theprequelsrule said:

Anchorhead said:

This is where I think Disney could gain back some ground with disappointed fans by going full-on with the Lando series. It’s possible I’m way off here, but with the divided fan base and critical reaction to the Fett series, now might be a good time to step away from The Saga.

Calrissian is a long beloved character in the franchise and there are all sorts of stories they could tell that didn’t have to weigh in on OT or PT. Give us some stories about all those years before we met him. There’s no end to what they could do. It would be familiar but also new and adventurous at the same time.

I want an adaption of Heir to The Empire. Why not? Bring what is certainly THE most beloved EU material to life. What would be the risk? Just say it is an alternate timeline. It worked okay for Star Trek it would seem.

I would love to see such a thing too, whether a Disney+ series or films.

Post
#1477936
Topic
George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
Time

Stardust1138 said:

Emre1601 said:

Stardust1138 said:

Emre1601 said:

Darth Malgus said:

Well, I’m perfectly aware that Star Wars has not always been Anakin’s Saga since '77, but I actively support the retcon, and I think that the Hexology, as a whole, can be described as Anakin’s Saga, even if Star Wars has not always been so from the beginning.

I mean no disrespect but it only become retconned to be Anakin’s Saga around '99, or maybe '05 when ROTS was released and this new Saga was completed.
I was only mentioning it as some fans online claim “it was always Anakin’s Saga” elsewhere online which is both annoying and untrue.

To be fair I think it could be said it goes back even further than that in a way. George told Jim Bloom of ILM during stages of post production of Empire, “The first trilogy is about the young Ben Kenobi and the early life of Luke’s father when Luke is a little boy.”.

Of course we never got to see Luke as a little boy but the story grew and evolved. However the key I think is that he said the first trilogy would focus on Anakin and Obi-Wan. This ended up being true. He talked about this in another quote that the Prequels were meant to give Anakin’s side of the story since the Original Trilogy is more relying information from a certain point of view of those that knew him. The Prequels in a general sense when he puts it that way contextualised and added new meaning to what certain things meant in the Original Trilogy. That was all intentional come time of the Prequels. They were meant to change our views on certain things. Marcia Lucas also said in Jonathan Rinzler’s book for Howard Kazanjian that George was really struggling with writing The Empire Strikes Back and once when Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck visited they joked about what if Darth Vader was Luke’s father. It isn’t out of the realm of possibility George was already thinking it either with some of the early concepts for A New Hope. However it is interesting to see how the story grew and evolved. I understand why some wouldn’t like the directions the story took but it took the natural progression I think George wanted it to for better or worse depending on who you ask. It is his story after all up until Disney came into the picture and decided to not use his Sequel Trilogy treatments. The context is different from retconing like the cat and mouse game played with Rey’s Parentage.

It’s also curious the original concept for A New Hope had a prophecy called the Son of Suns. So he was toying with idea of a prophecy in the early concepts too.

I think you may have missed the context of the first conversation:

Emre1601 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

I believe that disposing of The Prophecy/The Chosen One is the best change one can make in a PT fanedit, aside from cutting the toilet humor in TPM. I just don’t like retroactively trying to reframe the OT as also part of “Anakin’s saga.” It’s just my preference and if you like the reframing that’s fine with me.

I agree with this, a hundred times.

The Saga was never about Anakin as there was never a Saga to start with. Just 1 film, then 3 films. But only half way through the second film Vader is Luke’s dad, to be made a stronger character after George previously said he was not strong enough to be the main villain. The 3 films we are told are “The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker”.

Then 6 films, with a large number of disconnects introduced between the old 3 films and the new 3 films.

We are then told is now somehow “Anakin’s Saga” instead.

But people growing up during the times of the OT know this is not true. Or even younger people who look through the history. I do not mind people wanting to believe it is “Anakin’s Saga” or want to “reframe” (a good description BedeHistory), but it is annoying when fans rewrite history and tell others online “it was always Anakin’s Saga” as is claimed elsewhere.

It has been retconned to be “Anakin’s Saga” is more accurate, and before the retcon it was “The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker”.

Emre1601 said:

Stardust1138 said:

Emre1601 said:

Darth Malgus said:

Well, I’m perfectly aware that Star Wars has not always been Anakin’s Saga since '77, but I actively support the retcon, and I think that the Hexology, as a whole, can be described as Anakin’s Saga, even if Star Wars has not always been so from the beginning.

I mean no disrespect but it only become retconned to be Anakin’s Saga around '99, or maybe '05 when ROTS was released and this new Saga was completed.
I was only mentioning it as some fans online claim “it was always Anakin’s Saga” elsewhere online which is both annoying and untrue.

To be fair I think it could be said it goes back even further than that in a way. George told Jim Bloom of ILM during stages of post production of Empire, “The first trilogy is about the young Ben Kenobi and the early life of Luke’s father when Luke is a little boy.”.

Of course we never got to see Luke as a little boy but the story grew and evolved. However the key I think is that he said the first trilogy would focus on Anakin and Obi-Wan. This ended up being true. He talked about this in another quote that the Prequels were meant to give Anakin’s side of the story since the Original Trilogy is more relying information from a certain point of view of those that knew him. The Prequels in a general sense when he puts it that way contextualised and added new meaning to what certain things meant in the Original Trilogy. That was all intentional come time of the Prequels. They were meant to change our views on certain things. Marcia Lucas also said in Jonathan Rinzler’s book for Howard Kazanjian that George was really struggling with writing The Empire Strikes Back and once when Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck visited they joked about what if Darth Vader was Luke’s father. It isn’t out of the realm of possibility George was already thinking it either with some of the early concepts for A New Hope. However it is interesting to see how the story grew and evolved. I understand why some wouldn’t like the directions the story took but it took the natural progression I think George wanted it to for better or worse depending on who you ask. It is his story after all up until Disney came into the picture and decided to not use his Sequel Trilogy treatments. The context is different from retconing like the cat and mouse game played with Rey’s Parentage.

It’s also curious the original concept for A New Hope had a prophecy called the Son of Suns. So he was toying with idea of a prophecy in the early concepts too.

I think you may have missed the context of the first conversation:

Emre1601 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

I believe that disposing of The Prophecy/The Chosen One is the best change one can make in a PT fanedit, aside from cutting the toilet humor in TPM. I just don’t like retroactively trying to reframe the OT as also part of “Anakin’s saga.” It’s just my preference and if you like the reframing that’s fine with me.

I agree with this, a hundred times.

The Saga was never about Anakin as there was never a Saga to start with. Just 1 film, then 3 films. But only half way through the second film Vader is Luke’s dad, to be made a stronger character after George previously said he was not strong enough to be the main villain. The 3 films we are told are “The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker”.

Then 6 films, with a large number of disconnects introduced between the old 3 films and the new 3 films.

We are then told is now somehow “Anakin’s Saga” instead.

But people growing up during the times of the OT know this is not true. Or even younger people who look through the history. I do not mind people wanting to believe it is “Anakin’s Saga” or want to “reframe” (a good description BedeHistory), but it is annoying when fans rewrite history and tell others online “it was always Anakin’s Saga” as is claimed elsewhere.

It has been retconned to be “Anakin’s Saga” is more accurate, and before the retcon it was “The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker”.

So I did. My apologies for the misunderstanding on my part. I find this to be part of George’s genius. The great thing about A New Hope originally and I’d even say The Phantom Menace for those of us that experienced it first before seeing the Original Trilogy is both leave the door open for so many possibilities and truly allow you to create stories with your imagination as much as it is what is on screen that you can make your own. It’s one of my favourite aspects of how George creates the opening episode of the trilogies. They’re both very important to the whole narrative but they also stand alone the most of all six. Yet they can all stand on their own at the same time. It’s truly a balancing act and hard to follow this rule of structure with how they’re all meant to be seen as a collective whole at the same time according to George.

That is interesting. To leave an imprint on our minds, so we create stories with our imagination so we want more as well as what is onscreen. This is something that occurs regularly in the early Flash Gordon serials and Westerns that George was inspired by. I find George’s genius to be more in the portrayal and reinvention of himself. Someone who is obviously adept at rewriting history. Anchorhead’s post here says this better than I can:

Anchorhead said:

Stardust1138 said:
the only thing I can think of that I dislike about the Original Trilogy is Luke and Leia kissing but in a way there’s a lot of mythology that does the same thing. So while it is weird that they do kiss it’s not completely unheard of within myth and we know it influenced George

They weren’t related when he wrote the movie. No mythology, no influences, no anything else. It was a farm boy and a princess in the only thing Lucas had written. There was no Original Vision or multi-film Saga

Star Wars was just a single outer space adventure movie. It’s well documented that he wrote the Empire line ”no, there is another” without having any idea where he would go with the story.

He had writer’s block later and ham-fisted his way out of it. It’s weird because it was poorly handled by a bad writer. If Lucas really had anything beyond one film in mind, he wouldn’t have hired two writers to come up with possible sequels to his only script.

It’s truly sad how Lucas has spent decades crafting this revised image of himself as some deep thinker who embarked on a grand 12-film/6-film/9-film/the media made that up/it was always my idea/etc, Saga (genuflect).
The only thing Lucas is truly great at is revising history. Some of us got on this merry-go-round at the beginning. We know the truth because we were there as it was happening.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/George-Lucas-Star-Wars-Creator-Unreliable-Narrator-Time-Travelling-Revisionist/id/66986

I find it fascinating George is so persuasive at this rewriting history that many fans will believe any of his retcons and debunked claims, almost without question. Instead of looking at things with a more balanced and subjective view, facts are instead casually twisted or spun but only to show George in a more positive light. So much is about George, and yet so little about the many other fantastic and creative talents that worked and contributed so much on the films.

That is not to forget that Irvin Kershner and the creatives on Empire really took the Empire Strikes Back to a whole other level, completely across the board, a level that unfortunately has not been achieved since in Star Wars.

Creatives who pushed each other and challenged each other to do better, including challenging George himself. Many find it disappointing that the same challenging dynamic didn’t occur for the making of the Prequels, and the result is there for all to see.

But I am also happy others enjoy and love the Prequel films and look to find deeper meaning in them. And anything else Star Wars anyone enjoys.

Post
#1477894
Topic
George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
Time

Stardust1138 said:

Emre1601 said:

Darth Malgus said:

Well, I’m perfectly aware that Star Wars has not always been Anakin’s Saga since '77, but I actively support the retcon, and I think that the Hexology, as a whole, can be described as Anakin’s Saga, even if Star Wars has not always been so from the beginning.

I mean no disrespect but it only become retconned to be Anakin’s Saga around '99, or maybe '05 when ROTS was released and this new Saga was completed.
I was only mentioning it as some fans online claim “it was always Anakin’s Saga” elsewhere online which is both annoying and untrue.

To be fair I think it could be said it goes back even further than that in a way. George told Jim Bloom of ILM during stages of post production of Empire, “The first trilogy is about the young Ben Kenobi and the early life of Luke’s father when Luke is a little boy.”.

Of course we never got to see Luke as a little boy but the story grew and evolved. However the key I think is that he said the first trilogy would focus on Anakin and Obi-Wan. This ended up being true. He talked about this in another quote that the Prequels were meant to give Anakin’s side of the story since the Original Trilogy is more relying information from a certain point of view of those that knew him. The Prequels in a general sense when he puts it that way contextualised and added new meaning to what certain things meant in the Original Trilogy. That was all intentional come time of the Prequels. They were meant to change our views on certain things. Marcia Lucas also said in Jonathan Rinzler’s book for Howard Kazanjian that George was really struggling with writing The Empire Strikes Back and once when Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck visited they joked about what if Darth Vader was Luke’s father. It isn’t out of the realm of possibility George was already thinking it either with some of the early concepts for A New Hope. However it is interesting to see how the story grew and evolved. I understand why some wouldn’t like the directions the story took but it took the natural progression I think George wanted it to for better or worse depending on who you ask. It is his story after all up until Disney came into the picture and decided to not use his Sequel Trilogy treatments. The context is different from retconing like the cat and mouse game played with Rey’s Parentage.

It’s also curious the original concept for A New Hope had a prophecy called the Son of Suns. So he was toying with idea of a prophecy in the early concepts too.

I think you may have missed the context of the first conversation:

Emre1601 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

I believe that disposing of The Prophecy/The Chosen One is the best change one can make in a PT fanedit, aside from cutting the toilet humor in TPM. I just don’t like retroactively trying to reframe the OT as also part of “Anakin’s saga.” It’s just my preference and if you like the reframing that’s fine with me.

I agree with this, a hundred times.

The Saga was never about Anakin as there was never a Saga to start with. Just 1 film, then 3 films. But only half way through the second film Vader is Luke’s dad, to be made a stronger character after George previously said he was not strong enough to be the main villain. The 3 films we are told are “The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker”.

Then 6 films, with a large number of disconnects introduced between the old 3 films and the new 3 films.

We are then told is now somehow “Anakin’s Saga” instead.

But people growing up during the times of the OT know this is not true. Or even younger people who look through the history. I do not mind people wanting to believe it is “Anakin’s Saga” or want to “reframe” (a good description BedeHistory), but it is annoying when fans rewrite history and tell others online “it was always Anakin’s Saga” as is claimed elsewhere.

It has been retconned to be “Anakin’s Saga” is more accurate, and before the retcon it was “The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker”.

Post
#1477861
Topic
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator &amp; Time Travelling Revisionist...
Time

Some more contradictions and a bit more hypocrisy from George: Lucas is on record as suggesting doing the New Jedi Order books as the Sequels. Years later he then backtracked and claimed that was not the way he would have done it, despite it being his own actual suggestion (it also a project he worked on and contributed to). And then, rather hypocritically, years later Lucas actually used some of those early NJO ideas for his own Sequel Trilogy film treatments:

oojason said:

Don’t forget the version of the Sequels… that were novels (back in 1999):-
 

In 1999, an interview with George Lucas in Wired magazine, titled ‘Grand Illusion’… just a few months before the ‘Vector Prime’ book (from the ‘New Jedi Order’ series of novels) - began being heavily promoted (with tv advert and poster campaigns), a series of novels which Lucas himself was involved in and contributed to…

^ Grand Illusion - the full article at Wired.

 

A little more background info can be found here:-

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi
 

 

and the Total Film interview with George below from 2008:

GrimOnTheDarkside said:

“And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn’t come back to life, the Emperor doesn’t get cloned and Luke doesn’t get married.”

~ George Lucas, Total Film Magazine Interview, 2008

^ https://ibb.co/x5q1RrQ

 

When George later changed his mind and decided to try his hand on the Sequels film, his own treatments were based some of early New Jedi Order novel ideas discussed in the article below, notably the conception of the NJO and aspects of other familiar EU stories. George himself had also contributed to the NJO books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making suggestions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi

The text in the above article is a ‘spoiler’. To see the text appear, double-click on the space where the text should be, to see it. Or click here for a screenshot of the article: https://i.imgur.com/6n1rNdM.png

 
 

In Summary…

 
In 1999:

Interviewer: “What about the reports that Episodes 7, 8, and 9 - which exist in novel form - will never reach the screen?”

George Lucas: “The sequels were never really going to get made anyway, unlike 1, 2, and 3, where the stories have existed for 20 years. The idea of 7, 8, and 9 actually came from people asking me about sequels, and I said, “I don’t know. Maybe someday.” Then when the licensing people came and asked, “Can we do novels?” I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels.”

George also contributed to the New Jedi Order books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making a number of other suggestions implemented by the NJO writers.
 

In 2008:

George Lucas: “And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done it”.
 

Around 2011-12:

When George later changes his mind and decides to now try his hand at the Sequel Trilogy, his own later treatments are based some on those same novel ideas, notably the conception of the New Jedi Order, and also some other aspects of familiar EU stories.

Post
#1477834
Topic
George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
Time

Darth Malgus said:

Well, I’m perfectly aware that Star Wars has not always been Anakin’s Saga since '77, but I actively support the retcon, and I think that the Hexology, as a whole, can be described as Anakin’s Saga, even if Star Wars has not always been so from the beginning.

I mean no disrespect but it only become retconned to be Anakin’s Saga around '99, or maybe '05 when ROTS was released and this new Saga was completed.
I was only mentioning it as some fans online claim “it was always Anakin’s Saga” elsewhere online which is both annoying and untrue.

Post
#1477827
Topic
George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
Time

BedeHistory731 said:

I believe that disposing of The Prophecy/The Chosen One is the best change one can make in a PT fanedit, aside from cutting the toilet humor in TPM. I just don’t like retroactively trying to reframe the OT as also part of “Anakin’s saga.” It’s just my preference and if you like the reframing that’s fine with me.

I agree with this, a hundred times.

The Saga was never about Anakin as there was never a Saga to start with. Just 1 film, then 3 films. But only half way through the second film Vader is Luke’s dad, to be made a stronger character after George previously said he was not strong enough to be the main villain. The 3 films we are told are “The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker”.

Then 6 films, with a large number of disconnects introduced between the old 3 films and the new 3 films.

We are then told is now somehow “Anakin’s Saga” instead.

But people growing up during the times of the OT know this is not true. Or even younger people who look through the history. I do not mind people wanting to believe it is “Anakin’s Saga” or want to “reframe” (a good description BedeHistory), but it is annoying when fans rewrite history and tell others online “it was always Anakin’s Saga” as is claimed elsewhere.

It has been retconned to be “Anakin’s Saga” is more accurate, and before the retcon it was “The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker”.

BedeHistory731 said:

I believe that disposing of The Prophecy/The Chosen One is the best change one can make in a PT fanedit, aside from cutting the toilet humor in TPM

Yes, so many Prequel editors cut this. Even editors who are fans of the Prequel Trilogy. And also the toilet comedy!

Post
#1477769
Topic
George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
Time

Darth Malgus said:

Servii said:

I prefer the worldbuilding and general premise of this trilogy over the sequels we got, by a large margin. However, bringing Maul back would have been a big mistake and would’ve been very confusing for people who are only familiar with the movies. He’d been absent since Episode I, as far as most people are concerned. Him showing up again, and audiences having to watch an animated series to fill in the gap, would be very off-putting for people.

In a way, I’m glad George’s sequel trilogy didn’t get made, since if it was written and created by the man himself, it would be harder to disregard. And he didn’t seem to have a firm idea of what he even wanted the sequels to be (though neither did Disney and Lucasfilm, to be fair). I think a sequel trilogy was something George would toy with and write notes on every few years, but I doubt he ever would have gone through with it, since he’s getting up there in years, wants to spend time with his family, and ultimately, he had more of a story to tell going backwards in time than forwards.

It reminds me of how J.R.R. Tolkien actually started writing a sequel to Lord of the Rings. He wrote the first couple chapters, then scrapped the project when he realized

a) It was depressing and ruined the bittersweet ending he had created

b) It wouldn’t contribute anything substantial or insightful to the Middle-earth mythology. The story was complete. Anything post-LotR would have been anti-climactic.

I think, on some level, George knew his sequel trilogy was never going to happen by his own hand. It was all just ideas and notes. But he did certainly feel blindsided when he realized Disney wasn’t using his treatments (whatever those treatments entailed). Bob Iger himself made that clear, and I’m sure he softened George’s reaction when he described it. I imagine George was fuming. The fact is, Disney didn’t want to spend any time pondering or formulating what their sequel trilogy was going to be. They wanted to push it out as quickly as possible. It was never about the story to them.

I totally agree. Moreover, from 2005 onwards George constantly repeated that the Skywalker Saga was over, that Return of the Jedi was the conclusion, that he didn’t want to write post-ROTJ stories because the Expanded Universe authors had already done that with comics and novels, and that basically Revenge of the Sith would be the last film in the Saga. So, I really doubt that he would have made any more films. Maybe he could have created some spin-off not related to the Skywalker family, but he certainly wouldn’t have created any more Skywalker-based movies, because he constantly repeated for years that there would be no Episode VII, and that the main Star Wars saga is the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, which begins with The Phantom Menace and ends with Return of the Jedi. The fact that he developed ideas for the Sequel Trilogy doesn’t mean that he would put them into practice. To be honest, I’m glad none of this has ever been put into practice. From a Lore perspective, I like the ideas that George was developing (Luke rebuilds the Jedi Order, Leia becomes the Chancellor of the New Republic, the criminal syndacates try to overthrow the New Republic and make their own interests, etc.). But making Leia the Chosen One is an abomination in my opinion, and bringing Darth Maul back is a colossal idiocy, which I never liked even in TCW. I greatly prefer the Old Expanded Universe post-ROTJ stories over this.

The same for me. I find it interesting that Lucas was in favour of others doing the Sequels in novel and comic book form.

In fact, Lucas is on record as suggesting doing the New Jedi Order books as Sequels. Years later Lucas contradicted himself and claimed that was not the way he would have done it. And then, rather hypocritically, years later Lucas actually used some of those early NJO ideas for his own ST film treatments:

oojason said:

Don’t forget the version of the Sequels… that were novels (back in 1999):-
 

In 1999, an interview with George Lucas in Wired magazine, titled ‘Grand Illusion’… just a few months before the ‘Vector Prime’ book (from the ‘New Jedi Order’ series of novels) - began being heavily promoted (with tv advert and poster campaigns), a series of novels which Lucas himself was involved in and contributed to…

^ Grand Illusion - the full article at Wired.

 

A little more background info can be found here:-

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi
 

 

and the interview with George below from 2008:

 

When George later changed his mind and decided to try his hand on the Sequels film, his own treatments were based some of early New Jedi Order novel ideas discussed in the article below, notably the conception of the NJO and aspects of other familiar EU stories. George himself had also contributed to the NJO books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making suggestions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi

The text in the above article is a ‘spoiler’. To see the text appear onscreen, double-click on the blank space where the text should be. Or click here for a screenshot of the article: https://i.imgur.com/6n1rNdM.png

 
 

In Summary…

 
In 1999:

Interviewer: “What about the reports that Episodes 7, 8, and 9 - which exist in novel form - will never reach the screen?”

George Lucas: “The sequels were never really going to get made anyway, unlike 1, 2, and 3, where the stories have existed for 20 years. The idea of 7, 8, and 9 actually came from people asking me about sequels, and I said, “I don’t know. Maybe someday.” Then when the licensing people came and asked, “Can we do novels?” I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels.”

George also contributed to the New Jedi Order books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making a number of other suggestions implemented by the NJO writers.
 

In 2008:

George Lucas: "And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done it.”
 

Around 2011-12:

When George later changes his mind and decides to now try his hand at the Sequel Trilogy, his own later treatments are based some on those same novel ideas, notably the conception of the New Jedi Order, and also some other aspects of familiar EU stories.

Post
#1477759
Topic
Most Powerful Quote in all the Star Wars films.
Time

Rodney-2187 said:

It’s not from the OT, but Qui-Gon says, “Your focus determines your reality.” I often use that phrase to reset myself when I just need to movie on from something.

I have been focusing on Penelope Cruz for a long time now, but she not yet become a reality in my life. Sad times. A memorable phrase regardless!

ken-obi said:

“The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.”

and

"For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force flow around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship.”

Classic and timeless, my friend.

Post
#1477753
Topic
ANYONE COMING TO THIS SCREENING OF ESB?
Time

That guy with no name said:

WookieeWarrior77 said:

That guy with no name said:

This cinema actually does 35mm screenings, hopefully, this will be the case for ESB.
I’ll update you when I watch it.

So, how was it?

It was just the 4k blu-ray, but damn did those colors pop! they looked amazing.

It is good to know it wasn’t the poor 2011 2K version of Empire that had been shown in cinemas before the pandemic, and now they are at least showing a more vibrant and better quality version.

I hope there is something similar and on a wider scale for the 40th anniversary of Jedi next year.

Post
#1477679
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: Detours</strong> (animated series) - a general discussion thread <strong>(Unreleased)</strong>
Time

https://nerdist.com/article/star-wars-detour-animated-show-weird-al-songs/

“Weird Al” Yankovic had written tons of original new songs for Star Wars Detours. All for what would have been the show’s third season. Yankovic shared what might have been on Connor Ratliff’s The George Lucas Talk Show. Here’s what he had to say:

“We were working on a Star Wars musical, that was a third-season show, we were writing songs, and all of a sudden, it was like, ‘This is not gonna happen.’ […] I don’t know that I’m allowed [to talk about it]. There were, gosh, at least half a dozen or more songs as part of the musical and the various characters in the show. We actually recorded them singing their songs, and that was about a week before we found out that the show was not happening.”
 

That sounds so cool. I hope we get to see them some day. Or at least the Weird Al songs.

Post
#1477636
Topic
What 'a Star Wars Story' / anthology / spinoff film would you like to see?
Time

It is not my idea, but one that I though could work. Maybe for a Disney+ short film:

Empire Academy

"The film would take us on the journey of becoming an Imperial Stormtrooper, from cadet to graduation. As close as we can get to a Disney version of Full Metal Jacket in space. For the most part, Stormtroopers are one of the best running jokes in Star Wars. Their infamous inaccuracy is the source of many jokes and memes on the internet. We think it’s about time for Stormtroopers to be respected for the highly trained soldiers that they are.

In Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Disney gave us a Stormtrooper we could care about, they humanized the role, gave us a face, that had a story, and a person struggling with inner turmoil. We think it would be a great idea to continue this trend, and watch a soldier go from cadet to trooper and to give more legitimacy to the army of the most powerful military force in the galaxy."
 

A character study of what it like to be stormtrooper. The realization and uncomfortable facts of being one, the inner conflict, the scorn of friends and family, and doing things you do not actually want to do or agree with.

Or something different to that and more along the lines of a modern updated version of Troops!

Post
#1477285
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

kyberangel said:

TFA was how i fell in love with star wars.

I agree with NeverarGreat’s take on your post above, this was a well articulated read and put me in your shoes a new a new fan coming into Star Wars, and experiencing a whole new trilogy.

I hope you like fan edits and hope you can a version of TROS that may appeal to you. Hal9000’s TROS edit is very well liked, addresses many issues fans had with the conclusion of the Sequels, though there are many other TROS edits too. I appreciate it is not the same experience, but hope you can find a version of TROS you do like and serves a more fitting ending, a better resolution.

Post
#1477284
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

kyberangel said:

i view it as a series teeming with phenomenal ideas that were marred by execution. an ambitious story with a lot to say politically, written and directed by a man well known since the OT to be less than stellar at dialogue and no longer as interested in actor direction as he was VFX technology (which isn’t an inherently bad thing, i just think he should have hired a writer)

i think its main downfall was lucas’ overindulgence. the OT was as good as it was because he was still relatively unknown and therefore had people (his wife, the actors and other crew) who weren’t afraid to curb his worst impulses and touch-up his rough dialogue. in the PT he had full creative control and massive industry sway; people weren’t about to tell THE man who invented the action blockbuster “no”. a notable example is a lot of hayden christensen’s disparged acting choices being to be a result of him, an unknown theater actor, wanting to please george lucas even if he thought anakin should be acted a different way.

that doesn’t mean there weren’t moments of brilliance, or that things didn’t improve as the trilogy went on. revenge of the sith is the obvious high point, with both the opera scene and the back-and-forth between anakin slaughtering the trade federation while palpatine overthrows a democracy before the senate’s very eyes being particularly inspired.

(“so this is how liberty dies. with thunderous applause”, is the most metal line said in star wars ever george kinda went crazy no lie)

ROTS is my favorite star wars movie, but that doesn’t mean i think its the best one. i can appreciate what good the prequel trilogy has and still acknowledge the ways it missed the mark.

That is very well reasoned and concise post. I personally do not like ROTS much, but am happy to see others post they do and explain what they enjoyed about it.

Post
#1477026
Topic
<strong>Star Wars: Rogue Squadron</strong> (theatrical film for 2023) - a general discussion thread
Time

“Not every day you get to chat with one of your favorite #StarWars authors. Great meeting Michael Stackpole who told me he was highly excited about the upcoming #RogueSquadron movie and assured me Patty Jenkins had been in contact with him early on.”

https://twitter.com/jedi4liberty/status/1505262141212958720?s=21
 

This pleases me very much. I loved the games and his X Wing and Rogue Squadron books, so I am pleased the film may have some input or advice from Michael Stackpole, even if only a little.

If the film does well then maybe a new tie-in game, or update of the old RS games too?