EddieDean

S03E08 - Evil Plans - Objectionable

This is just way too mundane to be interesting. Padme’s planning a party, the droids go off to get some fruit, R2 goes to the spa, and finally C-3PO gets captured by Cad Bane (who, sure, is always fun, but that doesn’t make this episode any better). You could maybe do something smart here and take the examination of R2-D2 by Grievous in Downfall/Duel of the Droids as what happens when R2 gets captured here, to make these elements something separate which would serve elsewhere.

S01E22, S03E09 - The Liberation of Ziro (Hostage Crisis, Hunt for Ziro) - Objectionable

As for the following plot which begins when Cad Bane gives the liberated plans for the Jedi temple to the Hutts, you could just start that as its own thing by explaining it with the crawl. Bane is competent, we don’t need to see how he acquired the plans, and this is where the story starts.

I like the idea of the council of the Council of the Five Hutts, but I do think their designs are goofy, and I feel like the use of Hutts in the Clone Wars takes away some of their menace. I especially think Ziro’s flamboyance cheapens the Hutts quite a lot, and I can’t believe we have to watch this horribly weird romance between Ziro and Sy Snootles. The idea of Palpatine being directly blackmailed and the senate appearing to have inadequate security make both feel lesser.

There are a couple of decent ideas in here and the first episode is relatively good (if a bit more of the same), such as padme showing some quick thinking and competence, but I don’t think you can separate the good from the bad, and it’s certainly not an important arc.

There’s maybe a brief story here about Obi-Wan teaming up with Quinlan Vos to (fail to) capture Cad Bane, with no Hutt plot whatsoever (Ziro’s body in the background would simply be Cad’s latest victim at the point when Obi-Wan and Vos catch up with him), but I don’t know if it could work.

Yeah, I perhaps shouldn’t have said never see again, rather that their identities aren’t important to the overall plot. I’m aware there are references like this throughout, and I used to really enjoy them, but I just don’t think they constitute genuine quality, so I think this edit has to be fairly brutal. I do agree that things like Numa’s references add nice texture, but I don’t think they justify retaining an episode which is otherwise an hour and a half that isn’t fun.

That said, I think I’m coming round to the idea that there’s a core here which represents the real great episodes with emotional resonance, and then some way to present the good moments from across the wider clone wars, of which you could argue that that is one.

Which reminds me, I realised earlier that this period of time is a single war! The Clone War! It isn’t Clone Wars at all! The Star Wars are a collection of wars, of which the Clone War is one such war, which contains multiple battles and crises. Like Yoda says at the end of Attack of the Clones, “Begun, the Clone War has.”

S02E01-03 - The Holocron Crisis (Holocron Heist, Cargo of Doom, Children of the Force) - Important

Cad Bane is always good fun. These are visually interesting episodes with a good chaotic threat. These are mostly just decent fun, but I’m calling them important due to the fact that modern SW media seems to be leaning on the force sensitive children angle. We also get some good early relationship between Ahsoka and Anakin, where she’s confident and competent but still a little foolhardy and unrefined, but Anakin is also clearly starting to care for her.

The pacing is a little wonky since the last third has some very quick time jumps, but if it can’t be fixed this’d still be fine. I’d maybe have Anakin and Ahsoka arrive on Naboo before the Rodia plot, to explain why they’re well set up by the time Bane reaches Naboo. And I might trim Sidious’ dialogue to make his reasoning for wanting the force kids more ambiguous, but otherwise this barely needs touching.

Looking at the overall pacing, this would make a great second episode.

Back to finishing off the Ryloth arc:

S01E20 - Innocents of Ryloth - Excludable

The problem with this episode is that it adds nothing at all. Obi-wan goes and rescues some innocents from droids, whilst two clones we never see again in a major way meet a twi’lek child. Innocent people are saved, but it just doesn’t do much that’s too interesting.

S01E21 - Liberty on Ryloth - Excludable

Adds very little. The idea of a freedom fighter being wary of the Republic as well as the Separatists is a bit interesting, but even when you later learn (in Rebels) that this is Hera’s dad this doesn’t really add value.

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I think these episodes are a good example of why a different approach is needed for the clone wars. These are often edited as a movie, but they’re just not that good! Yes they present a sequence of events (establishment of a supply base, then a military base, then the breaking of a blockade, then the rescue of innocents, and finally the defeat of the occupier), but I think we need to be honest with ourselves and recognise that that’s just not that interesting as there’s no emotional core.

The highlight of the whole Ryloth arc is definitely Ahsoka’s initial failiure in command, which you could maybe stretch as far as to call Important, so I might present what was The Battle of Ryloth (Excludable) arc instead as The Insurrection on Ryloth (Important) arc featuring Ahsoka’s command intercut with Bail’s attempts to establish supply lines and Cham’s initial resistance, then separately Liberation of Ryloth (Excludable) featuring Mace teaming up with Cham to liberate the planet.

As an aside, I’m coming to realise how dull and uninteresting so many of the CIS hardware and character designs are. I think I’m going to try to avoid using them as much as possible unless they carry relevant context.

(And to be fair to Knight of Kalee, there was a decent B1 Droid joke in one of those episodes)

Interested in peoples’ thoughts on my arc titles. (Not that I’m going to include them all.) But I feel like there’s value in emphasising that this is a long-term war on many fronts, so as you watch these episodes the feeling of this being a rolling conflict is maintained. Therefore, where possible, I’ve tried to focus on the specific incident as history might record it, so they’re mainly in the format of:

• The (Second/…) Battle of / Assault on / Siege of / Massacre of / Insurgency on [Location X]
• The (Second/…) Peace Conference
• The [X] Crisis
• The (Attempted) Capture / Kidnapping / Assassination of [Title, Person X]
• The Return / Liberation / Fall of [Person X]
• The Mystery of [X]
• Stranded on [Location X]
• The [X] Trial (if it’s a more personal episode - ‘Incident’ might be better?)

Yes, that’s one of the issues with trying to produce movies. You have to have plots which can at least be interlaced, but then they’re not particularly cohesive as a whole. And if you’re going to have plot A then plot B as a movie, why not have them separate and not demand two hours in one sitting? One thing you might notice is that in my list of episodes up front, I’ve split it into more arcs than you might have assumed.

For example the popular Yoda arc can really be seen as two arcs - the first episode about Sifo-Dyas, then the second about the Qui-Gon’s life after death. Since they’re not directly a follow-on, you might choose to split them and thus achieve a different pacing.

Similarly, the Return of Maul arc is really three things: The massacre on Dathomir, a less important episode of Ventress trying to find herself, and the actual Return of Maul. We can split that out and have a slower burn, a more developing world, where through focusing on these episodes we’re reminded of their importance, and the whole feels more cohesive and directed.

Right, McFibb, that’s the front page updated with a full list.

@EVERYONE, feel free to review and challenge that listing on the front page.

Artan42, thanks for this. There were some useful points there, and it encouraged me to take a look at the earlier production orders. I’d already kept a note of the changed character models in case of reshuffling, but ultimately I think I’ll adhere to roughly chronological order but with a real focus on pacing the whole.

I’m not sure how long this will take me. Yes, it’s a large task - 59 arcs to review, 59 episodes to either cut out or edit. But perhaps I produce any edits in priority order (Vs first, then Is, then Ds, then Es, and no Os). And a lot won’t need much at all - just a bit of trimming together and some clean transitions. It’s hard to say.

If you wanted to start now you absolutely could - I’ll put together a progress tracker on the front page which lists out the arcs in their chronology, and marks their importance. But it’ll be a little based on memory since I’m only now going through and doing a proper review of each. I’ll keep it up to date though.

The difference between watching just the best ones in chronological order and watching my eventual output will just be levels of polish, really. It depends how much you want to rely on those. If it were me, I’d wait, because there are plenty of moments in the best arcs which still drag. But see how much progress I make and decide for yourself. I’ll go set up the tracker on the front page now.

You’re just one step ahead of me! The elements that comprise the Ryloth arc, plus those that comprise the Children/Ziro arc, followed by Smudger’s third movie (which incorporates both), will be tomorrow’s job.

I think I’m likely to find that the Children/Ziro arc still isn’t great, though I might like to preserve specifically the force sensitive children angle in some fashion, since it also featured in Rebels, and possibly other more recent media.

I shall of course report back!

(I’m just the right amount of ill to not work right now, but just the right amount of well enough to be able to watch and document some Star Wars, so I’m getting through this at a good crack.)

Having now reviewed all of the individual elements that comprise Smudger’s first movie, which merges Christophsis, Grievous Intrigue, and Domino Squad (plus one scene from Assassin which you wouldn’t miss). It really is brilliant, if you’re willing to merge arcs - and gets away with it because it merges them so elegantly that it appears to all deliberately tie together as it goes. All of the moments I’ve enjoyed whilst doing my original reviews have been included, and Grievous’ plot is enhanced to make him appear very tactically capable. Both of these arcs deserve to be placed right up front, too.

I think, with all much deserved respect to Smudger, that it could do with a little tightening of a couple of elements which we don’t need to linger on where it does slow down a little (a bit less stealth ship, none of the traitor clone this early), plus the inclusion of two very short scenes (one where the council ask Ahsoka to stay out of the next battle, and one from Rookies where it’s made a bit clearer that we’re dealing with familiar characters, since they become more important later).

That all is, if it does remain sensible to present it in this way as opposed to split. I’ll leave this to mull over whilst I get a feel for what the rest of the show needs.

S01E19 - Storm Over Ryloth - Excludable

I skipped ahead a little to check out the time jump between Supply Lines / Ambush and this. A skippable rating may seem low for this, since it is fairly decent, and it does contain a bit of development for Ahsoka (an early failiure in a leadershop role). But ultimately it doesn’t add too much value beyond this. Excludable is still fine though! I’ll review options for the best inclusion of the entire Ryloth arc, but I don’t think you’d consider it core if you just wanted the meat of the show. I’d also minimise as much of the Neimoidian stuff as possible.

On the issue of time jumps I mentioned two posts ago, I suppose I do have the classic wipe option.

S03E03 - Supply Lines - Objectionable

Heavy on Jar-Jar, including an absolutely egregious scene where he dances on a table that’s as goofy as anything else that he’s done. But even beyond Jar-Jar, there’s a lot to not like here, notably the Toydarians and Neimoidians, which were some of the other worst parts of episode one. The plot is fine, playing to Bail’s strengths and well introducing Cham Syndulla with a decent introduction to the resistance on Ryloth. That said, this doesn’t add any value to anything else, so even with careful pruning, the best it would end up as would be 4. Excludable.

S01E01 - Ambush - Objectionable

Now canonically a follow-up to Supply Lines, this episode has a ridiculous plot where Ventress and Yoda play a silly game to win a base on a Toydarian planet. Early poor animation problems and a bland setting make this dull to watch. There’s one cute moment where Yoda tells some clones they’re unique, but other episodes do it better, so there’s nothing here worth preserving.

—

It hopefully also goes without saying that almost all battle droid chatter, and especially all of their goofiness, will be minimised as much as possible in these edits.

S03E01, S01E05, S03E02 - Domino Squad Arc - Important

We all know this is a great arc, but it’s pretty important too. We see clone training, some good variety in clones, almost all of the unique named clones that’re relevant to the story (Rex, Cody, Fives, Echo, and Hevy), Ninety-Nine and the concept of a ‘Bad Batch’, the introduction of the more competent and threatening commando droids, and an interesting and high-stakes attack on Kamino itself.

The first episode, Clone Cadets, is pretty perfect, though you could maybe do without Cutup being quite such an arsehole. The second, Rookies, is a little weaker but not bad. You could maybe cut the worms. This is yet another Ventress/Grievous episode where they achieve little, so they could be minimised. Arc Troopers is really great and uses Ventress and Grievous far better, with a competent plan.

The only issue here is that there’s clearly quite a big time jump between the first and second episodes - they talk about at least one battle in between. You could cut around the line, but there’s still implied time, so presentation is the question. Similarly, two sets up the opportunity for an attack and three follows up on it, but I’d maybe like to give it an episode’s grace to allow for fleets to mobilise. Smudger intercut between Christophsis and this arc, but the more I think about it, the less I want of Christophsis. One solution then might be limited Christophsis padded by this, which does work as a wrapper - a sort of Smudger-lite - but I don’t know, I think I’d still rather have time jumps betwen episodes than within them. This could be one that’s kept split into three, if the pacing is better that way, and if we can preserve the feeling of their importance. It does come relatively early though, since Grievous and Ventress refer to it being their first meeting. I’m interested in thoughts on this.

One other thing we have to contend with is that there’s barely any jeopardy. We know exactly what happens to so many of these characters, and we know how the Galaxy ends up. There will be an important balance between things like showing more of Anakin’s fall (valuable) and things like hinting that maybe Sidious wants to do experiments on Zillo Beast armour because it might make armoured things better armoured (?) (worthless). I feel like this train of thought is taking me down a path where I’m going to be more critical and cut much more than expected.

Knight of Kalee said:

If you place the Nelvaan arc + Padmé right after Ahsoka’s departure; you’d only need to cut Padmé’s reaction to Anakin’s scar. Either way, her embracing Anakin could be seen as supporting him after losing Ahsoka.

The scene of Dooku and Grievous I’d say it should be kept later in the war. TCW didn’t include a lot of Grievous in its later seasons because of the untimely cancellation. It also makes a reference to the Outer Rim Sieges. Or you could split it in two:

• the first half with Dooku and Grievous sparring could be a part of the opening, after Grievous’s first victory against the Jedi.
• the second half with Sidious could be placed after Nelvaan (maybe right before the battle of Coruscant), because it establishes the context of the last year of the war: the Separatists purposefully retreat into the Outer Rim to lure the Jedi away from Coruscant.

Completely agree again.

After those couple of out-of-order episodes in the last couple of days, I’ve now gone ahead and composed all of my sources in chronological order, and am starting a full review of each episode in order.

TARTAKOVSKY’S CLONE WARS (The Battle of Muunilinst Arc, transitioning into the Battle of Hypori Arc) - Important

Important because it gives some good context for the start of the war, introduces Ventress and Grievous, and knights Anakin. Stripped of the other arcs, it sets the stage well, and is more focussed than people probably remember this show being.

It’s great fun. One thing I wish the main show had leaned into more is the clones’ silent hand signals that Tartakovsky’s uses to such effect. I’m not entirely comfortable with Dirge, due to his unique body type and unconventional shields, the IG droid lancers (cute but not referenced again), and Ventress’ apparent shapeshifting. All fun, but I don’t think they serve the whole. I might just put the first scenes of Ventress right at the start of this arc, just to solidify her position as a key character in the clone wars (in which case this is probably vital).

TARTAKOVSKY’S CLONE WARS (The Battle of Mon Cala Arc) - Desirable

Just more Tartakovsky, but this is entertaining the whole time.

TARTAKOVSKY’S CLONE WARS (The Battle of Dantooine Arc) - Desirable

Totally OP stuff from Mace here, but I think everyone loves this, and I think we can get a little OP in the cartoon.

TARTAKOVSKY’S CLONE WARS (The Attack on Ilum Arc) - 3. Desirable

There’s some nice jedi texture in here, and we also see Barris finishing her training, and some Padme sass. Not an important episode, but good fun.

—

These last three, I think, make a very good argument towards the inclusion of decent little bits, however small. And I’m leaning towards a grouped anthology format. For example, if we end up with seven seasons of roughly five to eight episodes each, it’d be nice to have an episode each season which collects these shorter tales. You can’t really justify keeping that Ilum arc on its own (it’s about six minutes long), but it’d be fun to have them peppered throughout. Especially the Tartakovsky arcs, since that way the return to them in a more major way in the later half won’t be as jarring.

The more I try to view this show as its ‘best whole’, the more I’m convinced that keeping our core elements well paced rather than grouped is the right approach. Compare again to The Mandalorian - you wouldn’t want to group just the Navarro episodes just because of the setting, nor just the Moff Gideon episodes because that’s where the plot is. These elements are far more enjoyable because they’re allowed to be growing slow burns.

Maul should be one such slow burn. We get the Nightsisters which end with the Maul reveal, then we should pace before Savage goes to find him, then we should pace before he takes over Mandalore, then we should pace before he’s broken out of Sidious’ prison, then we should pace before his return for the siege. The war shouldn’t feel like a series of battles, it should feel like an escalating series of moments that matter to our characters, to best set up an emotional finale which absolutely delivers. (And, back to my point of the little ‘Tales’ anthologies, these should be included for that same reason - where they help build to the best whole.)

Ultimately there’s only one metric - do I want to watch the next episode? If you read that Mandalorian was doing an anthology episode you’d be excited, if you read that it was doing a two-hour season finale you’d be excited, and you get excited about this week’s forty minute episode too. You need to want to watch the Clone Wars “this week” because you know you’re about to get a good quality self-contained episode, whatever it features.

Hal, your trust is extremely motivating, thank you!

I’m not sure how much I’ll include yet, but I’m just thinking about the rough Tartakovsky chronology.

As far as I can tell, there’re three main parts:

1. The opening salvos of the Clone Wars, up to Anakin being knighted. This fits before Ahsoka is introduced in the Christophsis arc.
2. The Nelvaan arc, near the end of the war, where Anakin gets a vision of Vader. This is interlaced with the following arc but I think it works better standalone.
3. The Capture of Palpatine arc, which may be harder to fit into the new canon, I forget. But either way, comes right at the end, around the Siege of Mandalore.

There’s also the scene where it’s implied Luke and Leia are conceived, which is cute enough and not too overt. This belongs about eight to nine months before the end of the clone wars. I think this fits nicely after Ahsoka leaves the Jedi order (since in TCW there has been tension between Anakin and Padme, but the loss of Ahsoka could well force him to seek Padme’s comfort), and before the Clovis arc, where things really start to deteriorate. Since it’s just one brief scene I might make it the capper to the Nelvaan arc, which would fit well here. In that placing, we also get these hints at Anakin’s darkness just as we get the further Order 66 mystery, plus Yoda’s doubts and investigation into the dark side, so I think that works nicely as things escalate.

There’s also the scene where Dooku trains Grievous. Initially it’s set near the end of the clone war, where Sidious then appears and says “let’s go capture Palpatine”, but cutting that I think it works earlier on, during the opening salvos, to establish a bit more of Grievous’ place in the war, and get that threat in up front.

Artan42 said:

EddieDean said:

For example, The Deserter mentions the guy deserting after the battle of Ryloth, but his kids look four years old, so to me that really should be near the end of the clone wars, not up near the start of the show.

Are they actually his children? Isn’t he more realistically the step-father. Especially considering he’s only about 14 himself.

That’s a good question. They do appear to be half human half twi’lek, though that isn’t necessarily conclusive. I’ll check what’s canon, though I won’t necessarily stay beholden to canon if it’s not explicit in the text. Story quality must come first- and this is probably one of the episodes which will find it’s place last, when I come to pace the whole.

Edit: Canonically, the kids do have a human father but it’s not Cut.

I agree with every word of that post. And that was what I was trying (and failing) to convey about Grievous. He should be used only when he properly fulfills that role of genuine menace.

Oh, I really like this in principle! I’d be interested to see more ideas for recolouring planets, especially natural ones.

Right. I’ve now created a record of every single (relevant) character appearance per episode, so as I review each episode I can be mindful of character arcs. For our central characters, I’m tracking the details of their development in each episode too. I’m also tracking any specific mentions of chronology, in case I later come to rearrange things. For example, The Deserter mentions the guy deserting after the battle of Ryloth, but his kids look four years old, so to me that really should be near the end of the clone wars, not up near the start of the show.

I’m now reviewing each episode, with a five-rank ‘VIDEO’ system -

1. Vital - Core of the show
2. Important - Not core, but adds value to either the show or the wider franchise (think good character development for a main character, or someone like Saw Gerrera)
3. Desirable - will include in a way that incorporates it as well as possible
4. Excludable - At best, no value add, other than for more Star Wars. Probably will include but mark as skippable
5. Objectionable - Actively hard to watch / offputting for whatever reason. Won’t include at all.

And I’ve just walked through a couple of episodes:

S01E06-E07 - Downfall of a Droid / Duel of the Droids - Objectionable

GOOD: The idea that Anakin’s decision to disobey protocol and never wipe R2 is why R2 has such a creative and quirky personality is interesting and serves both characters well. However, the execution is awful. Also, seeing some of Anakin’s anger as he fights to save another ‘one he loves’ is also a decent step on the journey of his fall, but ultimately doesn’t nearly make up for the bad.

BAD: The animation and lighting is absolutely horrible throughout. It also features that weird rock music that a couple of early episodes had. The rival droid is just a weird villainous plan, and it makes Grievous feel small as a villain. Ahsoka being so competent a duelist she could survive Grievous is not great development for her early on, and conversely the decision to face Grievous is way too foolhardy (even for her).

Back in the day I got excited about the IG droids, but I think I’ve come to realise that easter eggs absolutely do not equal quality**, and I’ll apply this principle throughout. This edit has to be about the resonant emotional core. We should feel how we feel when we watch the Mandalorian. That’s the goal to strive to, however achievable.

This episode is also one of those that TCW has early on which features Grievous and ends with absolutely no change in status quo, making him feel neutered as a villain***. He talks villainous nonsense, achieves little, and flees from battle. There’s no threat.

There’s nothing to salvage in this episode.

S02E09 - Grievous Intrigue - Excludable

This episode is absolutely fine, but achieves nothing. The start has some good genuine menace from Grievous, which I might find a way to use elsewhere. Otherwise, this can remain as a fine example of ‘more Clone Wars’. Grievous captures Eeth Koth, a bunch of Jedi go to save him and succeed, nobody gets harmed. It ends with Grievous crashing, which sets up the next episode, but you certainly wouldn’t waste these 22 minutes just to establish Grievous crashing.

S02E10 - The Deserter - Desirable

Famously a great episode, though one which I think belongs later in the show’s chronology since the deserter clone has kids (and I feel like ‘clones have variety’ belongs later). It’s an episode of two parts - one featuring a crashed Grievous getting pissy with droids and then escaping from Obi-Wan, and the other about a wounded Rex finding a deserted clone who’s got a family. You don’t need the Grievous stuff, and I think you could cleanly cut around it. That’d give you about twelve minutes of self contained gold, and is one of reasons I’m leaning toward little ‘Tales from the Clone Wars’ anthologies (even though one of the reasons this project exists is to have multiple smaller episodes). Unless it can neatly fit into another episode, of course.

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** For this reason I might be relatively brutal to the Tartakovsky show, which I know is kind of sacrilege. But I’m reminded of an army of IG droids with lances, and that just… doesn’t feel like it really belongs in this canon.

*** I might even look at really minimising him in RotS. I just feel like the vast majority of the time, he barely adds value.

Jedha’s the best option because it’s practical and interesting. And in terms of cobbling together the word “Jedha” to replace people saying “Pasaana”, pretty much everyone says “Jed-i” at some point, then you just need a generic “uh” sound, which should be easy to find.

Thanks! I’ll roll all of this kind of thing into account.