G&G, I agree regarding Anakin’s visions, but for Anakin it was about saving the one he loved and fear of loss. Ulitmately it was a very emotionally significant scene, which led to major character development. Same for Luke on Dagobah when he sees his friends in pain.

My issue (though it’s a minor issue) with Ahsoka’s is that she’s got a vision of Padmé, and this is literally in the second episode where they both appear, and in neither this nor their first episode together do they demonstrate any particular emotional bond. So it’s not a particularly significant use of visions. And it raises more questions than it answers - if Ahsoka’s sufficiently in tune, why doesn’t she later get visions relating to Anakin’s fall, since their relationship was far more significant to her? But bottom line: The visions serve the plot, but they don’t add emotional value.

Assassin is a strong episode otherwise - it’s got very good Padmé content (and I do want to serve Padmé as well as possible as she’s quite light currently), the Ahsoka/Assaj content is good, it’s set on Alderaan, and it features the early rebel leaders (who also aren’t well served yet).

Random thought: I don’t like Ahsoka’s visions in the Assassin episode, since she never demonstrates that power again. However, it’s got good Padme and Ahsoka content. I wonder if I can do something which merges the non-vision elements of Assassin with Duchess of Mandalore - since the latter’s plot is about Death Watch putting a hit on Satine, but they’re responding to events which Padme was a part of too so could feasibly be putting a hit on her also.

Just seen your edit there. That’s fantastic analysis Sade, thanks for getting into that much detail! It’s interesting that you’ve approached it from the perspective of wanting to isolate live action from CG, I hadn’t considered that. To be honest I was mainly thinking of breaking it around the four days which Delpheas mentioned in her thread. But this is definitely food for thought…

Yeah. It’s definitely a lower priority, since it’d already be presented as a few good options and it wouldn’t need actual content editing, but I’ll certainly see if we can add some breaks in.

Episodes imply time passing, so things like Anakin being raised to the Council then asked to spy on Palpatine would be a little more mysterious and exciting.

I think I’m tending towards generally having all episodes in the 22-50 minute range (so longer arcs may be released as part 1 and part 2), but as before, pacing and enjoyment of the individual stories will be master.

ADR14NAT1ON, yeah, I’ll take a close look at Malevolence. The Ahsoka/Plo stuff is good, and the escape pod killing is great, I just don’t think the rest of the arc is strong, especially the ending, which becomes a bit of a Scooby Doo caper. I think if it has any hope of preservation it needs a different ending which quickly gets Anakin onto the ship without faff - and the stealth ship might achieve that. I think the chances of me pulling that off are low, but I’ll try it.

I’m intending to change the music, but yes, to do it in such a way that the new music gets a good while to sink in and set the tone. Replacing the fortune cookie with Solo text allows for a lot more flexibility.

KoK, agreed on Bounty, I’ve shifted that up into Continuity at least. Order 66 arc I’ll at least work into the Siege of Mandalore intro text for the Mandalorian Cut audience. And Citadel is an important one for me to review, so it’s a priority.

Delpheas, I’m so glad to have your input, and your permission to use FotR. I was always a big fan of the original idea to make RotS match the Clone Wars (since it developed even our core characters so much), and intersplicing it with Siege of Mandalore is the obvious sensible choice for presenting it in a way that lets it really give you a good kick in the guts. I might think about offering an alternative presentation where it’s episodic (suprise suprise), maybe cut around days, if it’s possible to cleanly do so just to make it more digestible. But again, only with your blessing (and crediting you).

That reminds me, I said above that I probably would try to avoid offering A and B versions of episodes, though I think the finale has as many as three: (A) RotS movie then SoM arc, (B) RotS and SoM interlaced as FotR, ('C) B but episodic. I can see valid reasons for someone to want to watch any of these.

Hal, thanks again. I will ultimately allow this to be my own project because I think I’ve got an angle here worth sharing - especially I’d like the live Clone Wars Wednesdays airings to be a more curated list than people are expecting because I’d like to test this theory on people who don’t know what to expect and so have fewer preconceptions. Feedback from the live airing might cause me to backstep a little towards a more conventional level of inclusion. But I also want there to be a hell of a lot of community input along the way. Already people have added huge value by catching things I’d missed, or arguing the case for episodes, or presenting ideas. The project is already better than it would have been if I’d approached it alone.

Darth-gary, yeah, I’ll think about this. I was suprised to find that the Clone Wars only last three years. I do want to give viewers a sense of the passage of time to at least some degree of accuracy. I don’t know if I’ll land on exact dates (since I am shifting content around and that might upset the purists), but I want to use my intro text to at least include a bit more sense of cause and effect (couldn’t destroy Kamino clone facility so now we’re dependent on building more droid factories, etc), and also of the war’s ebb and flow over time (for example emphasising that the outer rim sieges are having the effect of pulling Jedi away from the core).

Having gone over all of my prior notes, small things I need to review again (these are mainly notes to myself, but discussion is welcome as always):

• R2 Captured - any opportunity to use R2’s interrogation elsewhere? What about Ahsoka vs Grievous? How is R2 saved?
• Malevolence trimmed with alternate ending? Possible to use the stealth ship from Cat & Mouse?
• Ambush - any opportunity to have Yoda tell clones in a cave they’re unique to him?
• Hunt for Ziro - can Obi-Wan and Quinlan Vos attempt to capture Cad Bane (maybe as part of the Holcron arc?)
• Padme - can anything be pulled from Hostage Crisis, Senate Spy, Corruption on Mandalore, Pursuit of Peace, Senate Murders, etc, into a coherent whole? Or scattered across the rest?
• Merge Bounty Hunters with Holocron or Trandoshan arc? All Felucia.

Knight of Kalee, I have to say, I think we’re particularly in sync. I keep thinking I’m having original thoughts, but then on review, finding that you had them long before I did! Please keep it up!

I might be a little busy now for a few days - worst case, expect a proper new chronology around Saturday.

Thanks for thinking it over, Sade. I’ll try to get materialisation going as soon as I can, I promise! I feel like this might need to be a multiple iterations kind of thing, so I do want to start getting the core established so I can start cutting.

Yeah, I’ve not thought too hard about the Order 66 content in Siege of Mandalore, though it is my intention to replace all episodes’ intros with text that works both as the introduction and the ‘previously on’, so you could pick any episode without watching others and hopefully have proper context.

I have considered producing different edits of the same episodes, but I’d rather avoid producing A and B cuts for the same episode since it makes the problem space increase significantly (and it’s already pretty damn large).

If you’re game for any merge + polish + intro + outro passes of the straightforward episodes, that sounds ideal. I’ll let you know when we hit that point, but don’t feel obliged!

I’d absolutely welcome any challenges to any of the above - I’d like to break this if it needs breaking, and then pull it together better. All of this planning up front is going to help this become the best it can be.

Additionally, if anyone feels like they’d like to work on any of the edits, please feel free. (@RogueLeader you mentioned looking into the Tartakovsky arc.) I’ll certainly do them myself if nobody else is interested, but please, if you are, feel welcome.

Huge brain dump incoming - input welcomed here.

Please challenge any of this, I could really do with having this thoroughly tested.

So, I think we have four main audiences:

1. Those who want to get context for the Mandalorian
2. Those who want the best of the Clone Wars told in a complete way
3. Those who want the above, but not to miss key moments for any of the franchise’s big characters (whether or not they’re that good or important)
4. Those who just want everything except the absolute worst

Bear in mind the plan is still to edit episodes - sometimes with polish, sometimes more creatively - to bring them up to the best quality possible. The more important episodes will be allowed to consume less important episodes ‘for parts’.

Here’re the cuts I’ll therefore produce:

And here follows the current allocation of arcs to cuts - though this has changed a little since my reviews (in response to your feedback) and it may change again in response to your opinions and focused rewatching:

1. Mandalorian Cut

Focusing on Ahsoka’s most important moments, and everything to do with Mauldalore, plus highlights for Boba Fett and Sidious’ interest in force sensitive younglings. Importantly I don’t think this audience cares much about clones, Rex, Order 66, or other prequel elements or characters.

• Episodes highlighting Ahsoka’s journey/growth (I likely need to add to this from the lists below - please feel free to argue items upwards!)
  • Ahsoka’s introduction elements of the Christophsis arc
  • Cloak of Darkness (+ best of Lair of Grievous)
  • Storm of Ryloth (only this episode from the Ryloth arc, unless I can cut the whole into an episode focused on Ahsoka + Cham [sorry twi’lek kid])
  • Holocron Crisis
  • 2nd Battle of Geonosis (probably without Senate Spy)
  • Heroes on Both Sides
  • Hunted by Trandoshans arc
  • A Friend in Need
  • Ahsoka’s Fall arc
  • Martez sisters (heavily trimmed to focus on Ahsoka)
  • Siege of Mandalore
• Other episodes relevant to fans of the Mandalorian
  • Duchess of Mandalore arc
  • The Academy (but not the episode that leads into it where Padme investigates Mando schools’ soft drinks - boring!)
  • Boba vs Mace arc (but NOT the later Ventress and Boba story, because frankly Boba isn’t badass enough in that, and Mando fans want badass Boba I reckon)
  • Nightsisters arc
  • Return of Maul duology
  • Maul Piracy / Shadow Collective arc
  • Son of Dathomir audio comic

2. Quality Cut

Focusing on telling the best (in my subjective opinion but with community input) end-to-end story of the Clone Wars (if you’re seeking a TV style episodic experience). Importantly this one doesn’t care for including every beloved character just because they’re beloved - it’ll be built around the best moments and a cohesive experience.

• Everything from the above list
• Episodes featuring Ahsoka in a primary role (which may do with tightening/focusing up)
  • Assassin (though she has premonition/visions here, something we never see her receive again, so maybe not this episode, though we’re running out of Padme)
  • Citadel (I really need to review this again because apparently it’s good for both Ahsoka and Rex but I really don’t remember it this way)
  • Kadavo (I also need to review this again with an Ahsoka/Rex focus)
  • Onderon (Same, I need to review quite how much this adds for Ahsoka)
  • Jedi Younglings (Are they the stars or is Ahsoka? It’s cool to see her lead but we get that in other episodes. It’s fun but so removed from the rest of the show. And it’s yet another easy Grievous beat.)
• Episodes focusing on Rex, in particular his relationship with orders vs morality
  • Hidden Enemy (but maybe cut as a later ‘return to Christophsis’ episode, maybe cut with Cat and Mouse)
  • The Deserter
  • Umbara (tightened to focus on Rex)
• Episodes focusing on other Clones
  • Domino Squad arc (maybe wrapped around Ahsoka’s Christophsis intro like Smudger’s #1)
  • Order 66 arc (tightened)
  • Bad Batch (tightened)
• Other episodes that’re included because they’re great
  • Bounty Hunters
  • Rako Hardeen (one of the few arcs along with the Mandalore arc which really develops Obi-Wan beyond what we already know about him)
  • Yoda investigates Sifo-Dyas
  • Yoda investigates life after death (cut to make the more overt elements more of a vision)
• Other episodes that help tell the complete Clone Wars journey
  • Tartakovsky episode focusing on Anakin’s knighting and Ventress’ recruitment
  • Massacre
  • Senate Spy
  • Scipio (cut to focus on Anakin’s jealousy)

3. Continuity Cut

Those extra episodes that give extra context for existing key characters and context beyond just the Mandalorian and Prequels.

• Everything from the above list
• Bounty
• Mon Cala arc
• Mortis (heavily cut to make it much more of a vision and far less explicit)
• (This section is fairly light for now, but I need to review especially those Ahsoka episodes from the above section again)

4. Complete Cut

Everything but the absolute worst. A full run-through in a sensible order but skipping the episodes which are both unnecessary and hard to watch.

• Everything from the above list
• The remains of the Ryloth arc (if there’s enough left after I change it to focus on Ahsoka/Cham [as episode 1 of 2])
• Cat and Mouse (if I don’t cut it into Hidden Enemy or the Ahsoka intro episode)
• Malevolence (though I’ll review it again for Ahsoka)
• Dooku Captured arc
• Crash on Maridun arc
• Trespass (though need to review for Rex focus)
• Zillo Beast
• Grievous Intrigue (unless I borrow this for Ahsoka’s intro episode like Smudger)
• Lightsaber Lost (a really flat solo Ahsoka episode)
• Corruption on Mandalore (unless I can cut its best bits into The Academy)
• Pursuit of Peace / Senate Murders (unless I can do something creative with Padme)
• Mercy Mission / Nomad Droids
• Missing in Action (if I can make it its own thing independently of the Droids in the Void arc)
• Tartakovsky Nelvaan episode
• Crystal Crisis
• Tartakovsky Palpatine kidnapping episode

5. Chopped up to use elsewhere

The episodes which have had scenes or other elements used elsewhere, so watching them might cause the viewer to notice duplicated scenes or content.

• Lair of Grievous (cut into Cloak/Lair)
• Supply lines (all that can’t be reworked into an Ahsoka/Cham cut of the Ryloth arc)
• R2 Captured arc (if I can use the one good element of it, where data is pulled from R2 by Grievous and he reveals that Anakin never reset him, in some other arc, otherwise this is merely not recommended)
• Evil Plans (in concert with the R2 Captured shots to show R2 getting captured in a different way)
• Shadow Warrior (discusses Grievous and a trap, good material to use in a Cloak/Lair polish cut)

6. Not recommended / not going to be included in any cut / not going to be polished up to quality standard

Hard to watch episodes which I’m not even going to wrap up nicely.

• Huttlet Crisis (cut entirely from original movie, leaving only Ahsoka’s intro)
• Ambush
• Bombad Jedi
• Blue Shadow Virus arc
• Sphere of Influence
• Ziro arc
• Droids in the Void arc
• The Disappeared

Therefore, the edits I should make, in rough priority order, should be:

1. Intro/outro tests
2. Full pipeline demo (probably Cloak/Lair + shots from Blue Shadow Virus + scene from Shadow Warrior)
3. Ahsoka intro episode (whether mixed with Domino squad arc or something else)
4. Something with the Domino Squad arc if I don’t wrap it around Ahsoka’s intro
5. Ryloth: Focused on Ahsoka/Cham
6. Geonosis: Intercutting Legacy of Terror / Brain Invaders (basically stealing from Smudger directly)
7. The Academy: Incorporating best scenes from Corruption on Mandalore
8. Martez Sisters: Focusing on Ahsoka
9. Citadel: Focusing on Ahsoka/Rex/Tarkin
10. Umbara: Focusing on Rex
11. Kadavo: Focusing on Ahsoka/Rex (and the Anakin slavery angle)
12. Onderon: Focusing on Ahsoka/Steela/Saw
13. Order 66: Heavily tightened
14. Scipio: Focusing on Anakin’s jealousy
15. Yoda’s Quest: With the force planet less overt, more of a vision
16. Bad Batch: Focusing on emotional beats
17. Some sort of Padme episode, or her content added to others? She’s not well served at all.
18. Mortis: Made less overt, more of a vision
19. Missing in Action: Make this its own thing split from the horrible Droids in the Void arc
20. All others merged into arcs + credits + polish pass (though probably do these throughout)

And finally - my short term to-do list (non-technical items)

• Stick all of the above in my new order which better paces around Mauldalore and Ahsoka’s growth
• Take a solid look at Ahsoka’s arc in chrono order, and refine the lists on this basis
• Take a solid look at Rex’s arc in chrono order, and refine the lists on this basis
• Think about Padme in the quality cut - is she well served? Can I do anything about this?
• Think about how best to land the opening. Is it just a trimmed Smudger’s #1 with the cold open? Or is it something where Ahsoka’s more of a feature throughout?

In terms of length, yes, that’s absolutely up in the air. I’d like each episode of my cut to feel like a three-arc, focused narrative, however long that is. So as I pick up each individual arc to edit I’ll see where the emotional breakpoints are. This might result in, for example, presenting the Domino squad arc as just three original episodes.

I think that example is unlikely since they’re better together (you want to get from 99 in Clone Cadets back to 99 in ARC Troopers quickly because that is one of our best early ways to tell the new audience “there’s more to the clones than you know, take interest, there are emotional stories to be had here”). But I use that as an example to illustrate that I’ll more likely present most episodes in the 22-50 minute range than the 60+ range - though there will be some that run to nearer 80.

Smudger, lovely to have you with us, your input is very welcome here! I think your first movie intercuts really nicely, which manages to permit the slightly compressed timeline. It definitely works.

I can’t imagine a version of the Huttlet crisis storyline that isn’t painful to watch, but maybe that’s a failure of imagination. I’m glad you mention rescoring though, because like Downfall/Duel of the Droids it does have that really awkward rock music that they experimented with early.

Szopman, I actually quite like both Cat and Mouse and Hidden Enemy, enough that I’ve thought about seeing if I can include them as a later “return to Christophsis” arc.

But I feel like you’re right that this project would prefer to trim them from our first episode (assuming I use some variant of Smudger’s), for pacing and to best help focus the audience on what will be our central character.

I think you could definitely drop the stealth ship, and you should cut the traitorous clone from a story this early in the series. The Eeth Koth content could go by quicker too. But I do admire what smudger did very much.

That said, I’m thinking about pairing Ahsoka’s intro with some other content which allows her to be more present in our first episode.

Thanks Sade, I’ll give that a shot. I was planning on using (Dolby dynamic?) stereo as opposed to full 5.1 surround, but I confess I’m very ignorant of this problem space. If I can render to 5.1 without much hassle I’ll gladly do that. My home setup is only 2.1, or whatever a soundbar with subwoofer is, so I can’t test full surround, but I can still cut the rear like the front and pass it through.

Bit of progress on the actual editing: I’ve been able to solve the couple of issues I had with the full production pipeline, so I can now use lossless video and have access to the full audio tracks for more flexible editing.

For those in the know, who might be able to suggest something more elegant:

1. I run the raw .mkv file through handbrake video converter, with lossy video (to make it convert quicker) but quality audio (AAC codec, 640 bitrate, 5.1 mixdown), which gives me an .m4v file with low quality video at variable framerate (unwanted) but the right audio channels. I can’t use handbrake for video because it won’t output at constant framerate.
2. I load this into my Vegas 17.0 project, starting with 5.1 surround settings (so it imports correctly) but then changing it down to stereo bus mode (so it exports correctly).
3. I run the raw .mkv file through tsMuxeR, now exporting only the lossless video file .264 with the original constant framerate.
4. I load this into the project, delete the original lossy video track and couple of empty audio tracks, and change the project to the correct 23.976fps format.

That gives me lossless video at the original framerate and 5.1 channel audio to play with, and rendering it keeps everything in sync.

If there’s a better way though, please let me know.

Loving all these music suggestions, folks.

Octorox, thanks for your link - that’s very useful. It’s also great to see your justifications, that’ll be extra helpful. I haven’t read through the whole thing yet (work day for me) but I saw that you put “Can’t stand to see Ziro for even one second” so I can tell we have similar tastes. Looking forward to getting my teeth into it. (Interestingly enough, back a few years ago I made my friends a “so you want to watch the Clone Wars” document.)

CMMAP, just to clarify - I’m not suggesting I do a solo Ahsoka adventure for her introduction, more that I pair her introduction with one which then features her and Anakin, rather than mixing it with Rookies, which puts her to one side. I was then suggesting that Rookies itself (which might become episode two) could mix with a solo Ahsoka adventure, to keep her in the picture while we get through the battle of Kamino without her.

It’s a cute idea but it’s a little cartoony I think. I’ll go with the season seven one, where it finally reads “STAR WARS CLONE WARS” instead of “STAR CLONE WARS WARS”.

Yeah, I will be using the metallic Star Wars TV opening, but not the movie opening crawl music because firstly I won’t need that long a piece of music, and secondly because it’s not quite the right tone. Each TV show so far has stood alone and had its own musical identity and I’d like this to do the same- just not a bombastic one.

Just been rewatching Ahsoka’s introduction with my daughter and since there’s only really about 10-15 minutes of meat in that episode I’m wondering if I might make that just the opening of a more Ahsoka focused episode, rather than intercutting with the Rookies arc.

Rookies ends up with Anakin vs all the villains, so might mix more cleanly with a solo Ahsoka episode like Cloak. I’ll have a think.

Tartakovsky final arc (kidnapping of Palpatine) - Excludable

Realised I had skipped this one.

It’s good fun, like all Tartakovsky is, but to be honest I feel like by this point the tone would interrupt the darker tone the series has settled into, so I think it’s best kept to one side.

It also would need to interrupt the Siege of Mandalore directly, which I’m sure most would agree is a bad idea.

thebluefrog said:

OutboundFlight said:

So we have a Death Star 3. Let’s do something interesting with that.

What if instead of just destroying the Hosnian system, Starkiller destroys dozens of planets in one launch? This would explain how the Republic collapsed – they had ships at bases across the galaxy, but Starkiller was able to destroy all of them in a single mass launch.

Starkiller should’ve…literally killed a star. Wiping out all planets in the system.

Kind of strange no one at Disney saw that.

Agree! That’s the natural step up. Drink up a star’s power, and launch it at another star to make it go supernova and wipe out its whole system.

Oh wow Delpheas, this sounds perfect! May I get a copy please? I’m working on a Clone Wars edit and was hoping for something like exactly this in order to cap it off with. I noticed that NFBisms’ cut was left unfinished - is there anything you’d add to it / change about it if you could?

Track suggestions absolutely welcome! Glad you agree- I think “packaging” is important. It sets the mood, it focuses you on the emotional beats.

I especially like the first one you shared for the opening, it’d work over the CLONE WARS logo followed by a couple of short introductory sentences.

Final thoughts before I put this down for a little while:

My plan is to modify opening and closing screens.

For the opening, I think I need a track with less bombast than the current one, which matches the bombastic nature of the newscaster narrator. In my edit, I’m not going to preserve him, since I get far more flexibility if I use text I can control - this gives me more flexibility in what I cut from edits so I think it’s worth doing. It also makes us take a breath and contextualise what we’re about to see. In terms of music I intend to go for a little military, a little weary, a little sadder, and let the opening text have a more somber tone. It may be that the current closing credits track is a bit more suitable, or I might go darker still.

For the closing, I’m going to redo the credits over imagery from each episode’s episode gallery / BTS gallery on StarWars.com. This’ll be much more like Mandalorian, which has those lovely bits of art.

This will be over particularly dark, ponderous music - I want us to take a beat after each episode and really digest it. I think the best track for this might be the prelude to Order 66 music which slowly builds throughout the third episode of the final arc. This would serve us nicely because it’s dark and ominous - welcome since we know the inevitable conclusion of the Clone Wars and mentally it draws us toward that end - and also because, when we later hear it in the episode itself, fuck me is it going to be tense. (And luckily, of course, the episode actually pays off that tension.) A similar one would be this: https://youtu.be/cNO3aNksUzg?t=1498

Oh aye, sure. But bear in mind I’m not taking anyone’s Clone Wars away from them, it’s all still there if they want it. I’m just producing a companion recommended order and some optional alternative edits. When the Bad Batch TV show drops, I’ll probably take my Clone Wars Bad Batch arc and just call it S01E00 of that series.

My goal with the recommended ordering is to present the theoretical ignorant new audience with the absolute best of. The key, for them, will be that if they didn’t know a given episode existed, would they miss it? Obviously that’s going to be subjective, but we’ve got plenty of time to wrestle here over which episodes are most worthy. And those who know best even after I lock it down will be easily able to modify my ordering.

And the Citadel arc is definitely one I’ll try to review with fresh eyes, since a couple of people have said they hold it in fairly high regard.

Lifeincontext said:

If it were me, I’d put it in continuity or complete for the reasons you listed above. Only reason to think about continuity is Anakin/clone character development. But it’s not necessary for the quality arc.

Yep, it’s definitely Continuity Cut, because it’s relevant to other shows. I’m just wondering if it’s important/desirable enough for Quality, which I think it isn’t.