Thanks for thinking it over, Sade. I’ll try to get materialisation going as soon as I can, I promise! I feel like this might need to be a multiple iterations kind of thing, so I do want to start getting the core established so I can start cutting.

Yeah, I’ve not thought too hard about the Order 66 content in Siege of Mandalore, though it is my intention to replace all episodes’ intros with text that works both as the introduction and the ‘previously on’, so you could pick any episode without watching others and hopefully have proper context.

I have considered producing different edits of the same episodes, but I’d rather avoid producing A and B cuts for the same episode since it makes the problem space increase significantly (and it’s already pretty damn large).

If you’re game for any merge + polish + intro + outro passes of the straightforward episodes, that sounds ideal. I’ll let you know when we hit that point, but don’t feel obliged!

I’d absolutely welcome any challenges to any of the above - I’d like to break this if it needs breaking, and then pull it together better. All of this planning up front is going to help this become the best it can be.

Additionally, if anyone feels like they’d like to work on any of the edits, please feel free. (@RogueLeader you mentioned looking into the Tartakovsky arc.) I’ll certainly do them myself if nobody else is interested, but please, if you are, feel welcome.

Huge brain dump incoming - input welcomed here.

Please challenge any of this, I could really do with having this thoroughly tested.

So, I think we have four main audiences:

1. Those who want to get context for the Mandalorian
2. Those who want the best of the Clone Wars told in a complete way
3. Those who want the above, but not to miss key moments for any of the franchise’s big characters (whether or not they’re that good or important)
4. Those who just want everything except the absolute worst

Bear in mind the plan is still to edit episodes - sometimes with polish, sometimes more creatively - to bring them up to the best quality possible. The more important episodes will be allowed to consume less important episodes ‘for parts’.

Here’re the cuts I’ll therefore produce:

And here follows the current allocation of arcs to cuts - though this has changed a little since my reviews (in response to your feedback) and it may change again in response to your opinions and focused rewatching:

1. Mandalorian Cut

Focusing on Ahsoka’s most important moments, and everything to do with Mauldalore, plus highlights for Boba Fett and Sidious’ interest in force sensitive younglings. Importantly I don’t think this audience cares much about clones, Rex, Order 66, or other prequel elements or characters.

• Episodes highlighting Ahsoka’s journey/growth (I likely need to add to this from the lists below - please feel free to argue items upwards!)
  • Ahsoka’s introduction elements of the Christophsis arc
  • Cloak of Darkness (+ best of Lair of Grievous)
  • Storm of Ryloth (only this episode from the Ryloth arc, unless I can cut the whole into an episode focused on Ahsoka + Cham [sorry twi’lek kid])
  • Holocron Crisis
  • 2nd Battle of Geonosis (probably without Senate Spy)
  • Heroes on Both Sides
  • Hunted by Trandoshans arc
  • A Friend in Need
  • Ahsoka’s Fall arc
  • Martez sisters (heavily trimmed to focus on Ahsoka)
  • Siege of Mandalore
• Other episodes relevant to fans of the Mandalorian
  • Duchess of Mandalore arc
  • The Academy (but not the episode that leads into it where Padme investigates Mando schools’ soft drinks - boring!)
  • Boba vs Mace arc (but NOT the later Ventress and Boba story, because frankly Boba isn’t badass enough in that, and Mando fans want badass Boba I reckon)
  • Nightsisters arc
  • Return of Maul duology
  • Maul Piracy / Shadow Collective arc
  • Son of Dathomir audio comic

2. Quality Cut

Focusing on telling the best (in my subjective opinion but with community input) end-to-end story of the Clone Wars (if you’re seeking a TV style episodic experience). Importantly this one doesn’t care for including every beloved character just because they’re beloved - it’ll be built around the best moments and a cohesive experience.

• Everything from the above list
• Episodes featuring Ahsoka in a primary role (which may do with tightening/focusing up)
  • Assassin (though she has premonition/visions here, something we never see her receive again, so maybe not this episode, though we’re running out of Padme)
  • Citadel (I really need to review this again because apparently it’s good for both Ahsoka and Rex but I really don’t remember it this way)
  • Kadavo (I also need to review this again with an Ahsoka/Rex focus)
  • Onderon (Same, I need to review quite how much this adds for Ahsoka)
  • Jedi Younglings (Are they the stars or is Ahsoka? It’s cool to see her lead but we get that in other episodes. It’s fun but so removed from the rest of the show. And it’s yet another easy Grievous beat.)
• Episodes focusing on Rex, in particular his relationship with orders vs morality
  • Hidden Enemy (but maybe cut as a later ‘return to Christophsis’ episode, maybe cut with Cat and Mouse)
  • The Deserter
  • Umbara (tightened to focus on Rex)
• Episodes focusing on other Clones
  • Domino Squad arc (maybe wrapped around Ahsoka’s Christophsis intro like Smudger’s #1)
  • Order 66 arc (tightened)
  • Bad Batch (tightened)
• Other episodes that’re included because they’re great
  • Bounty Hunters
  • Rako Hardeen (one of the few arcs along with the Mandalore arc which really develops Obi-Wan beyond what we already know about him)
  • Yoda investigates Sifo-Dyas
  • Yoda investigates life after death (cut to make the more overt elements more of a vision)
• Other episodes that help tell the complete Clone Wars journey
  • Tartakovsky episode focusing on Anakin’s knighting and Ventress’ recruitment
  • Massacre
  • Senate Spy
  • Scipio (cut to focus on Anakin’s jealousy)

3. Continuity Cut

Those extra episodes that give extra context for existing key characters and context beyond just the Mandalorian and Prequels.

• Everything from the above list
• Bounty
• Mon Cala arc
• Mortis (heavily cut to make it much more of a vision and far less explicit)
• (This section is fairly light for now, but I need to review especially those Ahsoka episodes from the above section again)

4. Complete Cut

Everything but the absolute worst. A full run-through in a sensible order but skipping the episodes which are both unnecessary and hard to watch.

• Everything from the above list
• The remains of the Ryloth arc (if there’s enough left after I change it to focus on Ahsoka/Cham [as episode 1 of 2])
• Cat and Mouse (if I don’t cut it into Hidden Enemy or the Ahsoka intro episode)
• Malevolence (though I’ll review it again for Ahsoka)
• Dooku Captured arc
• Crash on Maridun arc
• Trespass (though need to review for Rex focus)
• Zillo Beast
• Grievous Intrigue (unless I borrow this for Ahsoka’s intro episode like Smudger)
• Lightsaber Lost (a really flat solo Ahsoka episode)
• Corruption on Mandalore (unless I can cut its best bits into The Academy)
• Pursuit of Peace / Senate Murders (unless I can do something creative with Padme)
• Mercy Mission / Nomad Droids
• Missing in Action (if I can make it its own thing independently of the Droids in the Void arc)
• Tartakovsky Nelvaan episode
• Crystal Crisis
• Tartakovsky Palpatine kidnapping episode

5. Chopped up to use elsewhere

The episodes which have had scenes or other elements used elsewhere, so watching them might cause the viewer to notice duplicated scenes or content.

• Lair of Grievous (cut into Cloak/Lair)
• Supply lines (all that can’t be reworked into an Ahsoka/Cham cut of the Ryloth arc)
• R2 Captured arc (if I can use the one good element of it, where data is pulled from R2 by Grievous and he reveals that Anakin never reset him, in some other arc, otherwise this is merely not recommended)
• Evil Plans (in concert with the R2 Captured shots to show R2 getting captured in a different way)
• Shadow Warrior (discusses Grievous and a trap, good material to use in a Cloak/Lair polish cut)

6. Not recommended / not going to be included in any cut / not going to be polished up to quality standard

Hard to watch episodes which I’m not even going to wrap up nicely.

• Huttlet Crisis (cut entirely from original movie, leaving only Ahsoka’s intro)
• Ambush
• Bombad Jedi
• Blue Shadow Virus arc
• Sphere of Influence
• Ziro arc
• Droids in the Void arc
• The Disappeared

Therefore, the edits I should make, in rough priority order, should be:

1. Intro/outro tests
2. Full pipeline demo (probably Cloak/Lair + shots from Blue Shadow Virus + scene from Shadow Warrior)
3. Ahsoka intro episode (whether mixed with Domino squad arc or something else)
4. Something with the Domino Squad arc if I don’t wrap it around Ahsoka’s intro
5. Ryloth: Focused on Ahsoka/Cham
6. Geonosis: Intercutting Legacy of Terror / Brain Invaders (basically stealing from Smudger directly)
7. The Academy: Incorporating best scenes from Corruption on Mandalore
8. Martez Sisters: Focusing on Ahsoka
9. Citadel: Focusing on Ahsoka/Rex/Tarkin
10. Umbara: Focusing on Rex
11. Kadavo: Focusing on Ahsoka/Rex (and the Anakin slavery angle)
12. Onderon: Focusing on Ahsoka/Steela/Saw
13. Order 66: Heavily tightened
14. Scipio: Focusing on Anakin’s jealousy
15. Yoda’s Quest: With the force planet less overt, more of a vision
16. Bad Batch: Focusing on emotional beats
17. Some sort of Padme episode, or her content added to others? She’s not well served at all.
18. Mortis: Made less overt, more of a vision
19. Missing in Action: Make this its own thing split from the horrible Droids in the Void arc
20. All others merged into arcs + credits + polish pass (though probably do these throughout)

And finally - my short term to-do list (non-technical items)

• Stick all of the above in my new order which better paces around Mauldalore and Ahsoka’s growth
• Take a solid look at Ahsoka’s arc in chrono order, and refine the lists on this basis
• Take a solid look at Rex’s arc in chrono order, and refine the lists on this basis
• Think about Padme in the quality cut - is she well served? Can I do anything about this?
• Think about how best to land the opening. Is it just a trimmed Smudger’s #1 with the cold open? Or is it something where Ahsoka’s more of a feature throughout?

In terms of length, yes, that’s absolutely up in the air. I’d like each episode of my cut to feel like a three-arc, focused narrative, however long that is. So as I pick up each individual arc to edit I’ll see where the emotional breakpoints are. This might result in, for example, presenting the Domino squad arc as just three original episodes.

I think that example is unlikely since they’re better together (you want to get from 99 in Clone Cadets back to 99 in ARC Troopers quickly because that is one of our best early ways to tell the new audience “there’s more to the clones than you know, take interest, there are emotional stories to be had here”). But I use that as an example to illustrate that I’ll more likely present most episodes in the 22-50 minute range than the 60+ range - though there will be some that run to nearer 80.

Smudger, lovely to have you with us, your input is very welcome here! I think your first movie intercuts really nicely, which manages to permit the slightly compressed timeline. It definitely works.

I can’t imagine a version of the Huttlet crisis storyline that isn’t painful to watch, but maybe that’s a failure of imagination. I’m glad you mention rescoring though, because like Downfall/Duel of the Droids it does have that really awkward rock music that they experimented with early.

Szopman, I actually quite like both Cat and Mouse and Hidden Enemy, enough that I’ve thought about seeing if I can include them as a later “return to Christophsis” arc.

But I feel like you’re right that this project would prefer to trim them from our first episode (assuming I use some variant of Smudger’s), for pacing and to best help focus the audience on what will be our central character.

I think you could definitely drop the stealth ship, and you should cut the traitorous clone from a story this early in the series. The Eeth Koth content could go by quicker too. But I do admire what smudger did very much.

That said, I’m thinking about pairing Ahsoka’s intro with some other content which allows her to be more present in our first episode.

Thanks Sade, I’ll give that a shot. I was planning on using (Dolby dynamic?) stereo as opposed to full 5.1 surround, but I confess I’m very ignorant of this problem space. If I can render to 5.1 without much hassle I’ll gladly do that. My home setup is only 2.1, or whatever a soundbar with subwoofer is, so I can’t test full surround, but I can still cut the rear like the front and pass it through.

Bit of progress on the actual editing: I’ve been able to solve the couple of issues I had with the full production pipeline, so I can now use lossless video and have access to the full audio tracks for more flexible editing.

For those in the know, who might be able to suggest something more elegant:

1. I run the raw .mkv file through handbrake video converter, with lossy video (to make it convert quicker) but quality audio (AAC codec, 640 bitrate, 5.1 mixdown), which gives me an .m4v file with low quality video at variable framerate (unwanted) but the right audio channels. I can’t use handbrake for video because it won’t output at constant framerate.
2. I load this into my Vegas 17.0 project, starting with 5.1 surround settings (so it imports correctly) but then changing it down to stereo bus mode (so it exports correctly).
3. I run the raw .mkv file through tsMuxeR, now exporting only the lossless video file .264 with the original constant framerate.
4. I load this into the project, delete the original lossy video track and couple of empty audio tracks, and change the project to the correct 23.976fps format.

That gives me lossless video at the original framerate and 5.1 channel audio to play with, and rendering it keeps everything in sync.

If there’s a better way though, please let me know.

Loving all these music suggestions, folks.

Octorox, thanks for your link - that’s very useful. It’s also great to see your justifications, that’ll be extra helpful. I haven’t read through the whole thing yet (work day for me) but I saw that you put “Can’t stand to see Ziro for even one second” so I can tell we have similar tastes. Looking forward to getting my teeth into it. (Interestingly enough, back a few years ago I made my friends a “so you want to watch the Clone Wars” document.)

CMMAP, just to clarify - I’m not suggesting I do a solo Ahsoka adventure for her introduction, more that I pair her introduction with one which then features her and Anakin, rather than mixing it with Rookies, which puts her to one side. I was then suggesting that Rookies itself (which might become episode two) could mix with a solo Ahsoka adventure, to keep her in the picture while we get through the battle of Kamino without her.

It’s a cute idea but it’s a little cartoony I think. I’ll go with the season seven one, where it finally reads “STAR WARS CLONE WARS” instead of “STAR CLONE WARS WARS”.

Yeah, I will be using the metallic Star Wars TV opening, but not the movie opening crawl music because firstly I won’t need that long a piece of music, and secondly because it’s not quite the right tone. Each TV show so far has stood alone and had its own musical identity and I’d like this to do the same- just not a bombastic one.

Just been rewatching Ahsoka’s introduction with my daughter and since there’s only really about 10-15 minutes of meat in that episode I’m wondering if I might make that just the opening of a more Ahsoka focused episode, rather than intercutting with the Rookies arc.

Rookies ends up with Anakin vs all the villains, so might mix more cleanly with a solo Ahsoka episode like Cloak. I’ll have a think.

Tartakovsky final arc (kidnapping of Palpatine) - Excludable

Realised I had skipped this one.

It’s good fun, like all Tartakovsky is, but to be honest I feel like by this point the tone would interrupt the darker tone the series has settled into, so I think it’s best kept to one side.

It also would need to interrupt the Siege of Mandalore directly, which I’m sure most would agree is a bad idea.

thebluefrog said:

OutboundFlight said:

So we have a Death Star 3. Let’s do something interesting with that.

What if instead of just destroying the Hosnian system, Starkiller destroys dozens of planets in one launch? This would explain how the Republic collapsed – they had ships at bases across the galaxy, but Starkiller was able to destroy all of them in a single mass launch.

Starkiller should’ve…literally killed a star. Wiping out all planets in the system.

Kind of strange no one at Disney saw that.

Agree! That’s the natural step up. Drink up a star’s power, and launch it at another star to make it go supernova and wipe out its whole system.

Oh wow Delpheas, this sounds perfect! May I get a copy please? I’m working on a Clone Wars edit and was hoping for something like exactly this in order to cap it off with. I noticed that NFBisms’ cut was left unfinished - is there anything you’d add to it / change about it if you could?

Track suggestions absolutely welcome! Glad you agree- I think “packaging” is important. It sets the mood, it focuses you on the emotional beats.

I especially like the first one you shared for the opening, it’d work over the CLONE WARS logo followed by a couple of short introductory sentences.

Final thoughts before I put this down for a little while:

My plan is to modify opening and closing screens.

For the opening, I think I need a track with less bombast than the current one, which matches the bombastic nature of the newscaster narrator. In my edit, I’m not going to preserve him, since I get far more flexibility if I use text I can control - this gives me more flexibility in what I cut from edits so I think it’s worth doing. It also makes us take a breath and contextualise what we’re about to see. In terms of music I intend to go for a little military, a little weary, a little sadder, and let the opening text have a more somber tone. It may be that the current closing credits track is a bit more suitable, or I might go darker still.

For the closing, I’m going to redo the credits over imagery from each episode’s episode gallery / BTS gallery on StarWars.com. This’ll be much more like Mandalorian, which has those lovely bits of art.

This will be over particularly dark, ponderous music - I want us to take a beat after each episode and really digest it. I think the best track for this might be the prelude to Order 66 music which slowly builds throughout the third episode of the final arc. This would serve us nicely because it’s dark and ominous - welcome since we know the inevitable conclusion of the Clone Wars and mentally it draws us toward that end - and also because, when we later hear it in the episode itself, fuck me is it going to be tense. (And luckily, of course, the episode actually pays off that tension.) A similar one would be this: https://youtu.be/cNO3aNksUzg?t=1498

Oh aye, sure. But bear in mind I’m not taking anyone’s Clone Wars away from them, it’s all still there if they want it. I’m just producing a companion recommended order and some optional alternative edits. When the Bad Batch TV show drops, I’ll probably take my Clone Wars Bad Batch arc and just call it S01E00 of that series.

My goal with the recommended ordering is to present the theoretical ignorant new audience with the absolute best of. The key, for them, will be that if they didn’t know a given episode existed, would they miss it? Obviously that’s going to be subjective, but we’ve got plenty of time to wrestle here over which episodes are most worthy. And those who know best even after I lock it down will be easily able to modify my ordering.

And the Citadel arc is definitely one I’ll try to review with fresh eyes, since a couple of people have said they hold it in fairly high regard.

Lifeincontext said:

If it were me, I’d put it in continuity or complete for the reasons you listed above. Only reason to think about continuity is Anakin/clone character development. But it’s not necessary for the quality arc.

Yep, it’s definitely Continuity Cut, because it’s relevant to other shows. I’m just wondering if it’s important/desirable enough for Quality, which I think it isn’t.

OK, that’s the full series run through and considered whilst holding this project’s goals in mind. My key takeways:

• Good God, when the Clone Wars is good, it’s excellent
• Good God, when the Clone Wars is bad, it’s horrendous
• However there is, definitely, a best path through it which highlights all the best and massively minimises the bad, whilst missing nothing important. Which means, of course, that there’s huge value in a quality focused cut.
• Less is more. Many of the episodes are overly padded, especially when the show settled into four-episode arcs, and they’re paced around 22 minutes times four, not 88 minutes. Most should end up punchier in the 45-60 minute range.
• Ahsoka is absolutely the heart, with incredible character development, and a range of good relationships.
• Rex also has great development - though most of his episodes are in clone heavy arcs, not all of which are consistently great.
• Quality is all over, though - let the other characters shine too, when they get a really good episode.
• Almost all separatist villains lose their malice through serial failiure, and almost all separatist designs are visually uninteresting.

So here’s the next steps:

• Take a little break. I’ve not done anything else with my free time since I made the original post.
• Read over this thread and my other notes all myself again, to refresh. (Now is a great time for anyone who’s interested to feel free to think through the notes too, and/or offer up any thoughts to help frame the next stages.)
• Review the now-polished list of episodes. Create an initial test chronology - pacing Maul equally, then Mandalore and Ahsoka’s development throughout, then best quality episodes.
• Probably do a few focused watches to challenge that. I don’t really need to question the Mauldalore stuff because that’s all staying and it has its order, but I’d like to focus on Ahsoka’s development and make sure I have a solid growth for her that focuses on all her best episodes in the right order. I’d also like to consider Rex/Clones a bit more closely. I need to work out quite how much Rex is a core character, and if so, which arcs and relationships best support his development. Finally, plug in the other bests, and do a little checking of other episodes to make sure they’re worthy or not.
• I’ll also use this time to pull together and sort some of the additional assets I’ll need for credits.
• Then, get to cutting. I might break from the second rewatch to get at least a pilot episode out to you guys first, so we can discuss that and I can take your refinement notes as I watch. So it’ll be pilot episode first (Cloak/Lair), then onto the priority ones in chronological order. I’ll try to set myself up an editing pipeline where I can churn out the simple aggregate+polish episodes while I’m working on the more technical edits of those that need closer attention.
• Once I’m confident I can maintain the momentum, I’ll advertise the weekly watch and start releasing episodes.

S07E01-04 - Bad Batch Arc - Unsure

Tricky one to make a call on. I like this arc, though it does need trimming. The heart of it is of course the introduction of the Bad Batch, and Rex’s relationship with Echo. Echo looking nice and emaciated is cool - again we’re humanising clones. The natives are pretty same-old.

Aesthetically it’s not much - lovely lighting, but it’s on dull planets with the goofy Techno Union aesthetic and some weird new flimsy battle droids.

I’m really not sure on this one.
In favour of quality cut: A nice callback to our opening episode via CF99; new clones are interesting; development of Echo; nice Anakin/Padme scene; has everyone but the big three so I guess you’re putting them all to bed here.
Against inclusion in quality cut: Echo was last seen in the Citadel which isn’t very strong; very much a backdoor pilot; might not want to focus on brand new clones this near to the end; Anakin and Rex aren’t very interesting in this; it doesn’t escalate the war mysteries or other plots; it kind of becomes a Mace Windu episode at the end.

I’m actually tending towards not including it in the Quality Cut, since it’s neither core to Ahsoka/Maul/Mandalore, nor is it one of the more interesting episodes that comes this late in the show’s chronology.

I reckon you’d cut out all the native stuff. Start with the intro of the Bad Batch, have them learn Echo’s location, go straight to Skako Minor beginning at the elevator, fairly snippy Echo rescue, show them jumping onto the keeradaks (why? can’t explain well but they’ll have to just go for it), then wipe back to Anaxes for the return and second fight there. You’d lose a little character dev for the Bad Batch but they’re not really the focus unless they’re getting their own show, in which case they’ll repilot anyway.

Crystal Crisis on Utapau [Unfinished Episode] - Excludable - Complete Cut

This one’s unfinished, so while it has voice, SFX, and music, the video is made up of entirely placeholder graphics and almost no animation. So while it’s not great to look at, on the other hand it’s an interesting look at the process. I don’t think you could ask anyone but the most committed and tolerant fan, so into the Complete Cut it must go.

In terms of the story, it’s unfortunately yet another four-episode arc with a lot of padding which feels like more of the same, with yet another Grievous fight with no jeopardy. The interesting elements are that Anakin and Kenobi discuss Ahsoka - though there’s little meat to this discussion - and that the macguffin is a massive Kyber crystal. For the first time chronologically we learn that kyber crystals are both lightsaber crystals and used in superweapons, with this heavily hinting that they’d use this for a Death Star (or similar). But we get that information elsewhere, or it’s not particularly important.

I think that’s an accurate take, sade.

Interestingly, if you look at production codes, it looks like the whole series was created in seven blocks of 26 episodes, which would have been released as eight or nine seasons. And for the final arc we go from episodes in the mid sixth block right to 7.21-7.24 for the Siege of Mandalore. But what I find interesting about that is that it might imply that there were originally two episodes to follow it. Perhaps an extended form of the final scene? We’ll probably never know.

Let’s keep TLJ chat out of this thread- it’s contentious, and has little bearing on the Clone Wars.

But I agree that the Martez sisters, while they do have some endearing traits and two lovely character models and animation, do repeat their more annoying traits a little too much, and both make some frustrating bad calls.

Oh, and regarding missing arcs: I’m still hoping that the bad batch TV show adapts the arc about Boba Fett Vs Cad Bane.

Goddamn, that finale. What an amazing piece of work. Easily up there with the very best SW movies abd the best moments from the Mandalorian.

This whole project has to turn the show into the best path which takes us to that end.