EddieDean

That’s exceptionally useful information, thanks so much for putting all of that to paper.

Agreed with you both.

Ultimately we have the Maul episodes we have, so either it’s chunked together (in which case we don’t get it very often) or it’s spread thin (in which case we only get smaller doses). On my recent rewatch I did feel like each later Maul episode, while short, packed a lot into those 22 minutes, so I think it’ll still feel ‘meaty’ enough. Of course, when it’s watched through, if we feel like we lose something it can always be shifted around. Bear in mind Sade that it’s not a ‘super dose’ of Maul near the end - there will be other episodes in between those, just not those which are Mauldalore or Ahsoka, so the frequency of Maul episodes should be equal throughout. (I might release a different order for the Mando cut but right now my main focus is Quality)

Similarly, with Ventress, we lose that impression that she’s a present threat for longer. Unfortunately, due to the way the story plays out, you either have Maul for longer or Ventress, and ultimately Maul is the larger part of this series and the wider franchise, so I think she’s a necessary sacrifice. It does make me feel like it’s probably worth keeping her Bounty Hunter episode though, just so she’s not forgotten. One advantage of this though, is that it makes Sidious’ ‘correction’ of her presence come a lot sooner, which works nicely with the theme of him being pretty proactive against wildcards, third parties, and known threats in this show.

Sade, I’m glad you think moving Mandalore Plot up front is a good idea. It was floating around that area for a while until I realised that it was an option to just have it right after Ahsoka’s intro. It might suprise the familiar viewer but it doesn’t seem unwise. It doesn’t actually feature Ahsoka so it could almost be our episode one. One other option I’ve considered is even merging it with her Christophsis intro. Episode one would be Ahsoka meeting Anakin whilst Obi-Wan investigates Deathwatch, then episode two could be Obi-Wan and Anakin bringing Satine to Coruscant while Ahsoka spends some time with Luminara on her own escort duty. This is probably a far later (second pass) option for if I do start merging episodes to make whole seasons flow like more of a typical drama than an anthology show, which I’ll only do if the whole show can work this way, which is unlikely. It would also let you do things like wrap Lightsaber Lost into an Anakin/Obi episode, to give each a bit more character balance and allow everyone’s presence to average out a lot more. Like I say though, that’s for a ‘phase two’ I’d only consider after the current project is complete.

Oh, you absolute beauty! I had the impression you weren’t going to produce a third batch, but that’s fantastic news! They all look lovely, especially the richer colours you’ve been drawing out.

One thing I noticed while watching your edits which might be challenging for my own, was that in some places where you’ve joined two episodes together you’ve introduced a little overlap, in order to keep the transition smooth. Obviously that’s eminently sensible since you’re aiming to present the arcs as complete units, but it does mean that the odd shot or two that sits around the transition point may not be used in your cuts, and therefore may not have been upscaled? I may find that the ideal case would be to include one such cut shot, in which case I assume I’d have to rely back on the original Bluray rip version rather than your upscaled/recoloured version - unless you are doing your upscaling/recolouring in advance before cutting episodes together and could make those edits available?

One other question: Have you made any changes to the sound mix? Clone Wars is relatively easy to edit in its original form because its voice/SFX and music are in different channels, so you get a lot more flexibility with cuts. Have you passed through the audio unchanged?

Either way, I’m hugely in your debt, so thank you for this! It was your edits which sparked the original idea for this project, so without yours, this wouldn’t exist.

Thanks for thinking it through. I can’t remember which Cad Babe arc that happens in - he’s only in three, and I’m only excluding the Ziro one. I think that line happens in the early Holocron arc, which I’m keeping.

On elements like that good line which may be in the bad Ziro arc, I will be going through (over and over again, most likely) and combing through anything which I’m not using in full, to see what good value I can take and squeeze in elsewhere.

And yeah, I missed off Mortis by mistake. You could imagine it where it currently sits in the chronology, though I’ll probably end up settling it somewhere nearer the end once their bond is stronger and stuff is getting more mysterious, because the development in that episode is more about setting up Morai than growing Ahsoka, so it’s a bit more flexible.

I thought it was an interesting wrinke to the character. In TFA you basically had “Palpatine, but again”, whereas showing him in gold in TLJ implied that he was opulent and showy, as if he was narcissistic and wanted to present himself as ostentatious. I don’t see any good reason why a Sith wouldn’t choose to show off in gold, especially since they’re not doing the ‘hiding in the shadows’ thing any more. Compare to Ludo Kressh: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/swtor/images/f/f5/318991-36149-ludo-kressh_large.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20130527154330

I’m still working on the ordering. I don’t want to rearrange too much, but I have the following goals, in this order:

• Pace Maul throughout
• Pace Mandalore throughout
• Get a lot of quality up front (to prove the show to the first-time viewer)
• Highlight Ahsoka’s growth
• Pepper the best of the rest throughout, making sure it paces OK in terms of both characters and visuals

We are locked to the following breakpoints:
Every early Ventress episode > Nightsisters > All remaining Ahsoka episodes before the model update > Heroes on Both Sides > A Friend in Need > Remaining Mandalore episodes in order

We have about 40 episodes in this new show. Looking at JUST the Maul, Mandalore and Ahsoka ones (the ones we need to pace well), we have eight Maul ones, which means about four episodes between each Maul. If I then evenly spread the remaining Mandalore ones, and then spread Ahsoka’s arc across the whole in the current chronological order (about two episodes per Maul, though more Ahsoka earlier), we end up with the following.

(Bear in mind there’d still be four episodes per Maul, so where the Mauls seem close together, they’d be spaced with other non-Mando/non-Ahsoka episodes)

1. Christophsis (Ahsoka’s intro part only) - mandatory
2. Mandalore Plot - Deathwatch intro and a new layer to Kenobi early
3. Rising Malevolence - tension between Ahsoka and Anakin, intro to Ahsoka and Plo
4. Cloak of Darkness - Ahsoka with Luminara
5. Storm over Ryloth - Ahsoka’s first major mistake and lesson
6. Nightsisters - A hint of Maul
7. Duchess of Mandalore - Deathwatch back on the scene
8. Holocron Crisis - Disobedience and discipline for Ahsoka, force sensitive kids
9. Bounty Hunters on Felucia - no focus on Ahsoka, but a fun episode with her in it
10. Lightsaber Lost - After a few mistakes, Ahsoka learns to slow down
11. Boba Fett vs Mace - Boba’s in play, and Ahsoka’s getting competent
12. Return of Maul - about as early as you could get it
13. Corruption on Mandalore - A low-level easyish solo Ahsoka mission with the beginnings of her teaching
14. Senate Spy - Anakin and Padme argue, lead in to Battle of Geonosis
15. Battle of Geonosis - Competent Ahsoka compares herself to Barriss
16. Brain Invaders - Ahsoka forced into solo competency and a bit of trauma
17. Revival - The growing threat of the Maul bros as they turn to piracy
18. Heroes on Both Sides - New look for Ahsoka (because of the competency/trauma!)
19. Padme assassination episode - Not much growth for Ahsoka but good Padme
20. A Friend in Need - More Lux, more deathwatch
21. Eminence - Maul forms the Shadow Collective
22. Citadel - Ahsoka disobeys orders the right way, a bit more trauma
23. Hunted by Trandoshans - A big test of Ahsoka solo and as a teacher
24. Shades of Reason - Maul takes Mandalore
25. Kadavo
26. Jedi Younglings - Ahsoka now given the authority to formally teach younglings
27. Onderon - Ahsoka now responsible for training an insurgency
28. The Lawless - Maul rules Mandalore
29. Ahsoka’s Fall - Followed by some time off as we focus on other characters (those episodes not in this list)
30. Son of Dathomir Audio Comic - Maul liberated
31. Martez Sisters - We see what Ahsoka’s been up to, and get more hints of Maul
32. The Siege of Mandalore - The grand finale to all of the above

How does that feel, read in that order? That would be essentially the Mandalorian Cut of the Clone Wars: Refocused project. Does it feel like this meets our stated goals? (Are those goals sensible?)

Yeah, exactly. Both Grievous and Dooku should be background strategists first, and extreme threats if they ever appear on the frontline. We already know they survive the Clone Wars so there’s no tension seeing them on the battlefield against other characters we know survive.

Well this sounds rather damn fantastic! I don’t know if you discussed this elsewhere on the forums so it’s come out of nowhere for me, but it sounds great. I haven’t seen TROS since it appeared in the cinema - I was waiting for a Rey Nobody cut or the broken lightsaber VFX for Hal’s, but the cuts you describe sound very well thought out, so think it’s about time I give this a shot. Please PM a link!

Yeah, Hal I think we all felt that way before (and during the early seasons of) the Clone Wars. It needed to justify its own existence- and by the early midpoint it had done that. And by the finale it has absolutely created a net value add, with near zero incongruity.

I know you’ve put years of work into your prequel edits but I have to say I agree with Sade- TCW (at its best) is so strong that I’d personally have ROTS bend over to match TCW than the other way around.

Yeah, that’s fair. I’ll certainly account for feedback on ideas like this. I wouldn’t want to break canon where there’s a chance it gets referenced again in other core media - i.e. it damages the franchise’s cohesiveness. But in this case I was considering both sources as fair game since it feels like Malevolence and Trench are both ‘siloed’ plots unlikely to be revisited. But you’re right - there has to be a call made on where things land on the spectrum of quality versus purity. The ‘purer’ alternative would essentially just be a heavily trimmed Malevolence. Which would be fine.

I suppose this comes from an intention to creatively preserve the best elements of otherwise not particularly good episodes - nice if it works, because then you get nice lumps of quality. But potentally messy of course, and as you say, technically non-canon, though I wouldn’t want it to cause an actual canon conflict.

On the other hand, this stuff’s all optional either way. This edit would definitely be way down at the low priority end of things, one that could be toyed with long after the initial Malevolence trim were produced. (I’m just thinking about it now while I focus specifically on Ahsoka.)

I’ve just watched Cat and Mouse and I think using Trench with Malevolence would give us the best of both. The Trench scenes in C&M are either him being quite malicious and capable, or Yularen talking about how much of a threat he is. The stealth ship feels a bit out of place (especially early in the Clone Wars) and while it shows off Anakin’s tactical skill, that isn’t exactly new texture to his character.

I think the best use of these four episodes is basically to frame it as some new Separatist general who’s devastating Republic ships and taking no survivors. It’s believed Plo’s fleet has been hit the same way - we don’t see how (it’s implied to just be a regular battle against overwhelming odds/strategy), we just see Plo trying to save the lives of the clones, as Ahsoka (under Anakin’s wing) breaks the rules on a hunch to save him. After the save, Yularen goes back to his terminal and realises it was Trench. Yularen and Anakin agree immediate aggression is a good idea, at which they track and destroy his ship. I might see if I can do something to imply Trench’s survival so his presence can hang over the series.

This should pay off nicely later too, since ultimately he attacks more clones in the Order 66 arc, and then is killed face to face by Anakin in the Bad Batch arc.

I think the only thing left from those episodes which is any good is seeing Bail working on relief efforts, which doesn’t make an episode in itself. That might be able to work with Ahsoka’s intro episode, or the theoretical ‘return to Christophsis’ episode where we see the defector clone (which just doesn’t belong that early in the series either).

As a reminder, we really should crack through this one as quickly as possible if at all, because it looks like shit.

So, I’ve rewatched the Malevolence arc.

-That’s right bitches, Eddie’s rewatching the Clone Wars yet again and making YOU read about it for a second time!-

This time I’m doing a deep dive into the episodes composing Ahsoka’s arc, since that’s the emotional core of the shwo. So I’m just looking at where the value is and what makes the best complete story. Interestingly, she’s only a main character in 18 arcs of ~60.

While the Malevolence arc ends really poorly, the first episode is really good, especially for Ahsoka. It has light Snips/Sky Guy, which is far less obnoxious, but a good plot about Anakin teaching Ahsoka how do disobey orders the right way, and both of them demonstrate good instincts and a care for those around them.

The second episode retreads a lot of the same ground in terms of Anakin/Ahsoka and Ahsoka/Plo, and frankly very little of importance happens in it - except for some good shots of the ship starting to explode, which could get you a lot of the way towards just cutting right after the first part.

The third, where the ship’s infiltrated, contains a lot of the worst bits of Clone Wars. Cheapened Padmé, cheapened big bads, and goofy C-3PO moments. The infiltration and exfiltration scenes are serviceable, and there’s some good cheering and 'job well done’s at the end to cobble together an ending.

I think the whole arc would be stronger, though, if we don’t see the weapon fire (it’s goofy and not used again), instead allowing it to be a far more ominous mystery, with the escalation/threat really being that they’re targeting escape pods and the emotional impact on the clones and Ahsoka. I’d also take Grievous and Dooku out entirely (since it’s yet another easy win), instead using the opening text to make it either simply a “Separatist Weapon” or maybe something to do with Geonosians.

Ultimately, it’s a pretty damn good Ahsoka episode if the focus is taken off the Malevolence itself. I think there’s a very serviceable 30 minute episode in here, and switching Trench in for the other villains and making his whole thing that he’s pod-killing survivors makes him more malicious too when we see him later in the Order 66 and Bad Batch episodes. Our options for an ending are as follows:

• Something fancy using the stealth ship, where Obi-Wan gives it to Anakin (as in Cat and Mouse) though I think on reflection it’s best not to use it because “no ship that small has a cloaking device” (I know this episode tries to retcon that), and stealth really isn’t much of a thing in Star Wars. There’s a line in the second episode about Anakin “taking a small ship” which would work nicely too.
• Something where Anakin takes the stealth ship and we maintain more of the Malevolence elements where Obi-Wan thinks Anakin is crazy, though it makes us question where Anakin got a stealth ship. Unless it’s not stealth, and maybe there’s an angle where he made it himself? He is an engineer/pilot… I wonder.
• Something to do with the infiltration and re-plotting the hyperdrive to make it crash (a bit boring) though this is probably relatively hard to make work because more characters appear in those scenes, and the infiltration adds little
• Something to do with infiltration and self-destruct or similar (there is an “the engines are overloading” line which is originally used to refer to Padmé’s ship)
• Just have the goodies catch up with it and kill it with regular laser fire. I think this is cleanest since we shouldn’t be wasting time trying to drag this out, and we’ve had our main course with the Anakin/Ahsoka/Plo stuff. Ahsoka helps rescue Plo, scene of them saying “let’s go get them”, shot of them coming out of hyperspace and a brief scuffle, cut to explosions, cut to cheering. Straight to the point.

I couldn’t tell you where, but he definitely says it a few times.

I think that’s more likely Palpatine after becoming Emperor, I think it’s really likely that this show’s setting is going to be the immediate formation of the Empire, starting around roughly day one of the change. Which is really cool, because it’ll be the first major canon deep dive into that time period, before the Dark Times had ‘bedded in’. It looks like an immediate successor to The Clone Wars, with Zygerria etc, so it might follow up on a few of the open threads (and hopefully adapt one or two of the more exciting sounding unmade TCW episodes if they can shift their place in the timeline).

I don’t plan on rolling that into this project for a couple of reasons. Firstly, since it looks like it’ll be a successor but still definitely its own thing. And secondly, because I doubt any Disney era show will ever be nearly as swingy in quality as TCW was. Rebels could do with maybe a little tightening, and Resistance is pretty much throwaway, but I’m pretty sure all the main shows will be absolute bangers from here on in.

Gross!

In that Bad Batch trailer, I spotted Kamino, Zygerria, one of Saw Gererra’s crew, and Tarkin. Any other key TCW elements that’ve been noticed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYIW9MJzrRw

I don’t think so. To be honest, my main focus by a mile is the Quality Cut, and the Mandalorian cut is just a smaller selection of that. The QC is intended to present the best* end-to-end Clone Wars “right now”, but recognising that “right now” is a moving target, it’ll be a living project. For example, the best* Clone Wars today doesn’t include Jar Jar meeting Admiral Ackbar, so that won’t be my editing focus. But if the Obi-Wan show really builds on and reinforces that relationship to the point that showing Jar Jar’s first meeting with Ackbar becomes a net value add, then it deserves to be in the QC.

By comparison, the Mando Cut will really just need creating once and then probably not returned to, since it’s mainly an offering for today’s audience, rather than tomorrow’s.

The QC is core. Mando cut is the trimmed version, and the other two versions are really just about presenting them in the right order for people who’d rather consume more SW.

But like I say, the Quality Cut is really THE project as far as I’m concerned. Once I have its draft chronology worked out (which should be this weekend), it’s on to editing properly. First edit will be our first episode, which whether or not it features Domino Squad will at least give us the cold open which focuses our attention on Mauldalore plus introduces Ahsoka. Once you have both that episode and the chronology which allows Mauldalore to be more of a running thread, you essentially have v1 of TCW:Refocused. It’s launched.

I’m aware that sounds kind of ridiculous - slap one scene at the start of one episode and call it a new TV show - but at that point this becomes a living project for me. I’ll have the chronology, I’ll have the sense of priority (currently about 19 full episode edits to make if I remember right), but the work turns into me taking a handful of episodes from that new chronology, seeing what can be done to trim them in line with our goals, polishing them up, and putting the new episode in place of those it replaces. There are more straightforward ones, there are more complex ones, but then there are the more radical ideas which may come later. I feel like we very quickly get this up to a decent standard, and then it becomes a case of maintenance and constant tinkering over a longer term. The goals will always be (1) best* quality episode, and (2) best* quality holistic show experience.

*In my subjective, limited opinion, etc etc

Hal, the microseries is pretty much compatible with the current canon (aside from Anakin and Obi Wan being notified that the Chancellor’s been captured, as has been pointed out), but I don’t think it belongs in the main ‘Quality Cut’ because it’s so tonally different. By this point in The Clone Wars (and especially the way I think it needs formatting for maximum impact), everything is far darker. It’s known that the war may be fabricated, the force users are aware of a coming tragedy, the Republic’s aesthetic is swinging Imperial, and a lot of dark third parties are circling. There’s some very heavy emotional stuff for a lot of our main characters, which is about to get paid off in the absolutely magnificent finale. As much as the microseries is so much fun, by that point I feel like it’d be a very distracting change of gears - we should feel opressed and tense and concerned by this point, not entertained by that pitch-perfect Tartakovsky comedy timing.

And yeah, Yoda and R2 have a full arc together. They even go to Dagobah! I can see the issue you have with that. But again, it’s one of those things where there’s still a net value add, even though it takes away a little from elsewhere.

Great news! Looking forward to their rerelease!

G&G, I agree regarding Anakin’s visions, but for Anakin it was about saving the one he loved and fear of loss. Ulitmately it was a very emotionally significant scene, which led to major character development. Same for Luke on Dagobah when he sees his friends in pain.

My issue (though it’s a minor issue) with Ahsoka’s is that she’s got a vision of Padmé, and this is literally in the second episode where they both appear, and in neither this nor their first episode together do they demonstrate any particular emotional bond. So it’s not a particularly significant use of visions. And it raises more questions than it answers - if Ahsoka’s sufficiently in tune, why doesn’t she later get visions relating to Anakin’s fall, since their relationship was far more significant to her? But bottom line: The visions serve the plot, but they don’t add emotional value.

Assassin is a strong episode otherwise - it’s got very good Padmé content (and I do want to serve Padmé as well as possible as she’s quite light currently), the Ahsoka/Assaj content is good, it’s set on Alderaan, and it features the early rebel leaders (who also aren’t well served yet).

Random thought: I don’t like Ahsoka’s visions in the Assassin episode, since she never demonstrates that power again. However, it’s got good Padme and Ahsoka content. I wonder if I can do something which merges the non-vision elements of Assassin with Duchess of Mandalore - since the latter’s plot is about Death Watch putting a hit on Satine, but they’re responding to events which Padme was a part of too so could feasibly be putting a hit on her also.

Just seen your edit there. That’s fantastic analysis Sade, thanks for getting into that much detail! It’s interesting that you’ve approached it from the perspective of wanting to isolate live action from CG, I hadn’t considered that. To be honest I was mainly thinking of breaking it around the four days which Delpheas mentioned in her thread. But this is definitely food for thought…

Yeah. It’s definitely a lower priority, since it’d already be presented as a few good options and it wouldn’t need actual content editing, but I’ll certainly see if we can add some breaks in.

Episodes imply time passing, so things like Anakin being raised to the Council then asked to spy on Palpatine would be a little more mysterious and exciting.

I think I’m tending towards generally having all episodes in the 22-50 minute range (so longer arcs may be released as part 1 and part 2), but as before, pacing and enjoyment of the individual stories will be master.

ADR14NAT1ON, yeah, I’ll take a close look at Malevolence. The Ahsoka/Plo stuff is good, and the escape pod killing is great, I just don’t think the rest of the arc is strong, especially the ending, which becomes a bit of a Scooby Doo caper. I think if it has any hope of preservation it needs a different ending which quickly gets Anakin onto the ship without faff - and the stealth ship might achieve that. I think the chances of me pulling that off are low, but I’ll try it.

I’m intending to change the music, but yes, to do it in such a way that the new music gets a good while to sink in and set the tone. Replacing the fortune cookie with Solo text allows for a lot more flexibility.

KoK, agreed on Bounty, I’ve shifted that up into Continuity at least. Order 66 arc I’ll at least work into the Siege of Mandalore intro text for the Mandalorian Cut audience. And Citadel is an important one for me to review, so it’s a priority.

Delpheas, I’m so glad to have your input, and your permission to use FotR. I was always a big fan of the original idea to make RotS match the Clone Wars (since it developed even our core characters so much), and intersplicing it with Siege of Mandalore is the obvious sensible choice for presenting it in a way that lets it really give you a good kick in the guts. I might think about offering an alternative presentation where it’s episodic (suprise suprise), maybe cut around days, if it’s possible to cleanly do so just to make it more digestible. But again, only with your blessing (and crediting you).

That reminds me, I said above that I probably would try to avoid offering A and B versions of episodes, though I think the finale has as many as three: (A) RotS movie then SoM arc, (B) RotS and SoM interlaced as FotR, ('C) B but episodic. I can see valid reasons for someone to want to watch any of these.

Hal, thanks again. I will ultimately allow this to be my own project because I think I’ve got an angle here worth sharing - especially I’d like the live Clone Wars Wednesdays airings to be a more curated list than people are expecting because I’d like to test this theory on people who don’t know what to expect and so have fewer preconceptions. Feedback from the live airing might cause me to backstep a little towards a more conventional level of inclusion. But I also want there to be a hell of a lot of community input along the way. Already people have added huge value by catching things I’d missed, or arguing the case for episodes, or presenting ideas. The project is already better than it would have been if I’d approached it alone.

Darth-gary, yeah, I’ll think about this. I was suprised to find that the Clone Wars only last three years. I do want to give viewers a sense of the passage of time to at least some degree of accuracy. I don’t know if I’ll land on exact dates (since I am shifting content around and that might upset the purists), but I want to use my intro text to at least include a bit more sense of cause and effect (couldn’t destroy Kamino clone facility so now we’re dependent on building more droid factories, etc), and also of the war’s ebb and flow over time (for example emphasising that the outer rim sieges are having the effect of pulling Jedi away from the core).

Having gone over all of my prior notes, small things I need to review again (these are mainly notes to myself, but discussion is welcome as always):

• R2 Captured - any opportunity to use R2’s interrogation elsewhere? What about Ahsoka vs Grievous? How is R2 saved?
• Malevolence trimmed with alternate ending? Possible to use the stealth ship from Cat & Mouse?
• Ambush - any opportunity to have Yoda tell clones in a cave they’re unique to him?
• Hunt for Ziro - can Obi-Wan and Quinlan Vos attempt to capture Cad Bane (maybe as part of the Holcron arc?)
• Padme - can anything be pulled from Hostage Crisis, Senate Spy, Corruption on Mandalore, Pursuit of Peace, Senate Murders, etc, into a coherent whole? Or scattered across the rest?
• Merge Bounty Hunters with Holocron or Trandoshan arc? All Felucia.

Knight of Kalee, I have to say, I think we’re particularly in sync. I keep thinking I’m having original thoughts, but then on review, finding that you had them long before I did! Please keep it up!

I might be a little busy now for a few days - worst case, expect a proper new chronology around Saturday.