logo Sign In

EddieDean

User Group
Members
Join date
27-Jan-2017
Last activity
4-Jul-2025
Posts
2,549

Post History

Post
#1404971
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

Update: Much happier with today’s work. I’m not sure yet how long the CC part will end up running, but this time I’m approaching it more from the angle of what’s possible rather than ideal-first. I’m also really pleased with some of the audio transitions - I feel like this episode has made me a better audio editor, so when I come to refine my first four episodes I’ll check their transitions all again.

My intention is, as quickly as possible, to release us a full ‘first season’ of six episodes, with complete polish in all aspects. Those six episodes will be both the first season and the mission statement of the show - by the time someone’s watched all six, they’ll have a full taste for The Clone Wars, and for The Clone Wars: Refocused. So they’ll know if they want to continue.

After doing those six, I’ll take a little break to enjoy some other hobby for a week or so, before getting back in the swing.

Post
#1404879
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

It is, except we have no way of knowing it’s Echo. I tried to pull “I’m Fives and this is Echo” from elsewhere but it didn’t have the right tone.

That said, I agree with all your points. This one’s just a tricky puzzle as there are a lot of variables. I essentially have to make each alternative possibility in full. I’ll get there though!

The other tricky bit is ending on a scene that’s punctual enough to fade to either the credits or a “two weeks later” card. As it stands, “That’s an automatic fail” isn’t a very strong moment. And 99 keeping Heavy in play is good, but almost a bit too sentimental for after a full fail. It’s probably still the right answer, though I’ll have to play with the music.

Post
#1404865
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

I’ve got Rookies and ARC Troopers cut how I want them now, and the transition is nice and smooth.

I’m struggling a bit with Clone Cadets.

One issue I’m having is that a lot of this episode’s set up is all about unity, which both isn’t paid off well in the original version of the episode, nor paid off well in the whole arc. So I’m trying to minimise the unity aspect.

But the main thing I’m working on is that I’m not sure at this stage whether more or less is best. Essentially the decision is whether to have one attempt or two before they fail and we cut across to Rookies.

If it’s two attempts, most of the drama fits in the middle. This would be about 10-15 minutes long, enough so that it’s more than a cold open, so I’d probably have to black out after Clone Cadets in order to get a ‘two weeks later’ card in. But I feel that this way we spend too much time on the setup.

If it’s one attempt, I basically splice the first half of the first training (where they’re introduced) with the second half of the second training (where they fail). Doing it this way, the drama has to wrap around it. Right now, I have it structured like this:

  1. Fives and Echo tell Shaak Ti that they’re thinking of leaving. I might drop this though, because firstly it’s not clear that it’s Echo, and secondly Shaak Ti bangs on about unity, which I cut down to a more ominous “you’re where you need to be”, but that doesn’t quite land with some of her other context either.
  2. Bric tells Domino Squad in the barracks that they suck. This is quite nice for context.
  3. Shaak Ti and Lama Su talk about being low on clone DNA, and I trimmed this down to imply that maybe Shaak Ti agrees that these clones may be ‘deficient’.
  4. First half of the first fight
  5. Second half of the second fight (it’s quite a clean transition) up till the fight stops
  6. Shaak Ti calls 99 to clean the arena
  7. The general guy tells off Domino Squad, and the green triangle alien tells them they’ve failed
  8. Hevy plans to desert, but is convinced not to by 99 (though again, kinda via ‘unity’ messaging)

I’m not quite satisfied yet. Frustratingly, I need to make as few cuts as possible, as there’s a lot of dialogue in the same channel as the music, so it’s harder to split/merge cleanly.

Post
#1404725
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

And in case anyone’s wondering, I’m aware that I’ve still got four episodes waiting on polish - once I have the music from McFibb and have finalised my concept art ideas I’ll go back and refine them all, then always release review versions to that standard.

Does anyone else have the mad skills (and willingness) to produce animated concept art like Chase Adams did? https://streamable.com/6awcej He’s going to produce some but I’d gladly share the load with anyone who’s up for it.

Post
#1404504
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

Yeah, ARC Trooper armour is almost a battlefield merit badge kind of thing. I believe it was a prototype for the Phase II armour, and during its early production run/testing they essentially just gave it out to clones who did well.

I don’t have a big problem with Cody deferring to Rex. Cody’s more of a manager where Rex is a team leader, so it’s natural for some delegation, including of tactical decisions. And they clearly have a close relationship so there’s a lot of implicit trust there.

Post
#1404485
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

Thanks for the sense check guys. As soon as I had the thought I stopped editing and came here to write it up to see what you guys think. I’m really glad I decided to work out the solution for this episode on the editing track, and that I decided to look at it back-to-front (to keep my eyes on the conclusion, to work out how to best get there), because one of the first things I did was merge the endings of Rookies and ARC Troopers, and that merge just naturally offered up the line “ARC Troopers… in the 501st”, which unlocked the rest.

Kalee, I’ll definitely be including as much of 99 (and his interactions with Hevy) as I can, so long as they don’t make the end of that first act feel drawn out. One principle I’ll always be editing to is maximising emotional value, and obviously 99 is great for that. You’ll also be pleased that you get a good Grievous fight but not the following moment where he loses a bit of menace. He now kicks Obi-Wan’s ass a bit, then Obi-Wan kicks his ass a bit and he realises it’s all going downhill so he pulls out - I’ve removed the scene where Obi-Wan chases him outside and he sneaks up behind him and then… announces his presence and doesn’t take advantage of the situation at all, allowing Obi-Wan to take up a far more advantageous position.

Post
#1404413
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

Oh boy oh boy after working it over for a good while I think I’ve cracked the Domino Squad arc. I’m interested in your thoughts.

I considered splitting it into two parts but there’s no natural break other than after Clone Cadets, which leaves it paced weirdly. I also considered making Clone Cadets the cold open, but there’s too much volume that it didn’t feel right. So I was just looking over it looking for trims and assuming I’d release it almost in full, when I hit on what I think is the solution.

So to summarise the episodes right now on face value:

1. Clone Cadets
This episode’s storyline is that Domino Squad fail training, then come together, then succeed training. Importantly, note that that is a strong and straightforward three act journey in and of itself. Adversity is faced and overcome within the episode. Highlights are 99 and his relationship with Hevy. And the important bits of continuity beyond this arc are Echo and Fives.

But the issue I have with it is that the ‘coming together’ is quite clumsy. Ultimately Echo and Fives want to leave but are told not to by Shaak Ti, Cutup gets assaulted, and Hevy wants to leave but is told not to by 99 - and then they decide to stick together, and win because their differences make them creative thinkers? That really doesn’t feel like the victory is earned or that they’re suddenly more cohesive. And it certainly doesn’t feel like we’ve seen them earn Shaak Ti’s description of “possibly the finest clones I’ve ever seen”.

2. Rookies
This episode’s storyline is that Domino Squad are on the Rishi moon listening post, get overrun by commando droids, then when Rex and Cody are there to inspect it they end up all teaming up to take back the listening post in time to warn the Republic of an imminent assault on Kamino. It’s pretty good all round. There’s a couple of redundant scenes and it needs a bit of polish tightening but it’s a cool plot that’s mostly well done. At the end, Echo and Fives join the 501st.

The problem is that in this context it kind of undoes and is undone by Clone Cadets. The whole point of Clone Cadets was to see this team coming together, but here we see them immediately fall apart. Obviously, that happens in war and it’s a decent story. But it feels like the full 20 minutes of establishing them as a group wasn’t worth the investment. Also, if the team are the ‘best ever’, why are they now on a shitty listening post (even an important one)? Also, Clone Cadets has just given us a three act story about Domino Squad, but they remain our focus, and so it turns out that the surviving characters have a second second act although it’s basically them just continuing to be great and continuing to be rewarded for it. I think this makes the whole arc pace awkwardly.

3. ARC Troopers
This episode begins with the attack on Kamino led by Grievous and Ventress, and features Rex, Cody, Fives, Echo, Anakin, and Obi-Wan defending Kamino successfully. Highlights are 99 again, and Echo and Fives really helping out, and becoming ARC Troopers. It’s great end-to-end. I trimmed about three minutes but other than that it’s going to be mostly untouched as the finale to our arc.

(The main trims I made are: We don’t need to see Obi-Wan fighting the droids underwater in an already action-heavy episode after he gives Anakin the plot relevant information. And we don’t need to see Obi-Wan fighting Grievous outside after he’s already beaten him inside, especially since Grievous sets up a kind of suprise attack that he then doesn’t utilise at all. And removing both of those scenes lets us get rid of the flying whale thing which just pulls me out of it a bit. I also cut Grievous and Ventress discussing that their master has ideas for the clone DNA, because denying it to the Republic is enough, and we don’t need to imply that Sidious is into cloning when Palpatine has full access to cloning tech.)

This episode is easy to trim into the immediate follow-up to Rookies.

So anyway,
I finally realised that this isn’t the story of Domino Squad. That’s not the heart, nor does it leave us with a good focus for the rest of the show. It’s the story of Echo and Fives joining the 501st.

And here’s the main solution to focus it, fix the early pacing issues, and fix the unsatisfying Clone Cadets/Rookies collision: Domino Squad fail their training, and the Rishi moon outpost is their punishment. (I know I have to sully the legacy of the popular Domino Squad to do this, but I think it leaves us with a far stronger story.)

Now, we get a proper three-act story. We establish in the crawl that the Republic is rushing new batches through the training as quickly as possible in order to field troops, but that some batches still don’t complete the training, and are given lesser jobs like maintenance or manning listening posts. We get the start of Clone Cadets, introducing Echo and Fives within Domino Squad but having them fail (probably using all of the mistakes from the first and second attempts, so they’re sloppy but it’s the ‘leaving a man behind’ that gives them the fail.) We see the emotional fallout of that and establish the relationship with 99 - only now, they’re failiures too, just like him, and he’s the only one who thinks all clones can be heroes. We don’t invest in Cutup, Droidbait, or Hevy.

Then we ‘two weeks later’-it straight into Rookies. Now, their boredom matches that this is punishment, and Echo longing to be on the front lines and Rex thinking the moon’s run sloppily will have more value later. That episode plays out, with the other clones dying off as Rex and Cody learn that these two ‘lesser clones’ are competent when the shit hits the fan. We end the episode with them leaving the moon with Rex and Cody but they don’t get to join the 501st yet - they’ve merely been rescued.

We wipe transition right into Kamino for the battle, where it plays out as before. (Echo and Fives have been given slightly nicer armour or taken the time to paint theirs up in thanks while on the flight over, we assume, if we notice.) But now, their plot parallels 99, as they’ve been discarded as failiures but when thrust into battle they stepped up and helped win the day. And finally, we close the episode on Rex and Cody naming them “ARC Troopers… in the 501st”. They’ve earned both rewards at the same time - but this time, they’ve been earned by these individuals overcoming multiple trials, rather than by Domino Squad deciding to become the best clone team ever overnight.

The biggest loss here is Hevy’s relationship with 99, as with no win there’s no medal to give to 99. Though we still maintain 99 and all of his main emotional beats. We establish that he believes in all clones, he wishes for his own chance, he finally gets his chance, and he dies a soldier.

One other thing I might play with to make this hit a bit better and to cement Fives and Echo as the focal characters is to have their desertion come BEFORE we see Domino Squad fail. So right at the start of the episode two (implicitly) perfectly fine clones are talked out of leaving a poorly performing squad, but then punished for that squad’s failings, eventually earning the recognition they deserve. This might work a bit better since devoid of the original episode’s context they’re complaining about a squad which is legitimately not that good. I’ll see how this works.

This episode then, of course, is no longer called ‘Domino Squad’. Instead, it is called ‘The 501st’ - the heart of the episode being Echo and Fives’ path to that prize, and ultimately the legion the audience will continue to follow throughout the wars. And at the end of the episode, we have our clear clone focus - the 501st, Rex, Fives, and Echo.

Post
#1402796
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

RogueLeader said:
I also kind of see NFB’s point about the Snips/Skyguy thing. Like, having one instance of it to show how Ahsoka can be kind of irritating at first. But to be fair, are these nicknames ever used later on in the series?

They disappear quickly, but I did keep a “skyguy” in Malevolence, which I thought was cute without being obnoxious.

Post
#1402794
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

(Responding to McFibb)

Hmm, I don’t know, doesn’t that take away from the idea that Maul was super secret? He was Sidious’ secret weapon then killed and disappeared onto a trash planet, I don’t think that’d be widely known, even by senior Mandos. I think their wondering what a Dathomiri male with a lightsaber even is is more of a valid reaction.

From a real world perspective, I think all we need to see is that it’s Maul. If we only know the prequels we think “Oh, Maul survived? Not sure how I feel about that but it’s presented in a way that’s clearly deliberate.” If we’ve seen Rebels or Solo we think “OK, we’re getting some exploration of Maul, and apparently there’s a Mandalorian element?” And if we’ve seen the clone wars, we think “alright, this is a deliberate refocusing on the Maul content, which we didn’t get until late S3, or really the end of S4, so there’s clearly something different happening here.”

That’s the intention, at least! I’m not saying that lands as intended necessarily.

Post
#1402785
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

Good feedback sonofabinadi, thanks.

I think what you’re saying aligns with quite a lot of feedback, so I think I’m going to make the following changes to the first four episodes:

  • All technical things mentioned so far
  • Credits transitions
  • Christophsis: Cut Anakin’s anger after being saved.
  • Christophsis: Cut Anakin and Ahsoka’s look response to Bail, and try to colour correct Bail to daytime/more teal. Maybe pad that moment’s transition into the next shot some other way.
  • Cloak: Trim a bit more janky dialogue.
  • Malevolence: Remove the merged ion cannon description/destruction scene, putting the line “it’s an ion cannon” somewhere else.
  • Flip Malevolence and Cloak, and drop Ahsoka being palmed off from Cloak, making it just a normal thing that happens rather than Anakin’s discomfort.

Maybes:

  • Remove the Maul cold open and make it the stinger at the end of Death Watch (where it makes sense in context) rather than at the end of the season (which will already end on Maul’s face). Still a bit on the fence on this one, putting myself in the place of an absolute newbie. I think I’ll make this change based on feedback to my (production) season one finale, which we’re two episodes away from.
Post
#1402703
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

I appreciate you looking into that, Knight of Kalee. Thanks for the analysis, this is all useful. It’s great to be discussing topics episode by episode because it’s really valuable for us to share focus.

I’m having a slightly slower couple of days - full brain by the end of the day so a bit less brainspace left for editing - but nobody need worry about any lack of momentum. It’s all ticking on!

Post
#1402696
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

NFBisms said:
idk, it was just really noticeable to me how harmless and inoffensive Ahsoka was. It didn’t jive with important character moments and dialogue in the episode.

A totally valid opinion of course, but I think that my intention right now is to make the show (and especially the early episodes (and especially the Christophsis arc)) as palatable as possible for the theoretical first-time viewer. We all love Ahsoka, but her early portrayal is one of the things that most turned people off about the show. And it’s the people who had those initial intolerances that I’d most like to cater for now. That said, I totally understand where you’re coming from, and I totally understand why the writers started off with her behaviour being like that, because it did give her a very strong arc.

My only real technical (if even) gripe is that it’s noticeable to me when we’re coming into a scene from the titles with the music already halfway through a track.

Definitely going to fix this for all episodes to date. Right now, ‘Release cut’ of an episode comes with the caveat that I’m yet to polish the credits in and out (whereas ‘Review cut’ means it might have elements I’m yet uncertain of, or a little roughness). But I’ll absolutely rerelease all of them when McFibb and I (and any additional collaborators) have settled on our plans for the music.

Post
#1402572
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

RogueLeader said:
I agree that if you could cite or mute his line, asking for her help, might alleviate the whiplash feeling you get when he says moments later “I had it under control!” I mean, I know this is whiny Anakin we’re talking about here, but still.

Good shout, might see if I can remove that.

that line, “You wouldn’t have made it as Obi-Wan’s padawan, but you might make it as mine” would be a bit of a shame to lose.

I could maybe play that line over the two of them as they walk away, see if that works.

Post
#1402551
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

@EvansJ / MikeReese

-On Maul’s cold open:

Valid thoughts, but I think I’ll sit on this for now. Let’s roll out a few more episodes then see how the audience feels after watching a few, with the Maul developments they get. By the next episode after Domino, in proper episodes they’ll have seen blue-armoured Mandos, the Darksaber, and another explicit hint of Maul, so we’ll see if it feels like too much of a disconnected tease.

-On Domino Squad:

Flashbacks are valid. I’d probably rather go with bookending a whole episode rather than finding reference elements to flash back from (since that’s quite radical for Star Wars). But I think I’ll get my teeth in to the edit, and properly load the content into my brain, then see what options that gives us.

Post
#1402550
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Second episode is good!

Pretending that this is the third episode of a show meant to follow up on the Mandalorian, it’s working for me so far. It must be a combination of the current enthusiasm for SW TV, relation to stuff seen in the Mandalorian, presenting things in a more interesting order, lack of annoying theme intro, fuller episodes with a complete story, and seamless editing throughout.

That intro theme music gets me pumped, like it’s a new SW show. Well done so far!!

Great to hear, Hal. It’s really useful to have your editor’s mind and familiarity with the prequels, combined with your unfamiliarity with the Clone Wars, to help validate whether this works. (Other first-timers please also chime in!)

Post
#1402547
Topic
The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE]
Time

G&G-Fan said:
-The thing Ventress says about having someone on the inside (which is an episode I actually quite liked) is never expounded upon.

Keep watching 😉

-Anakin still says “I had everything under control” even though he asked for help.

He’s sassy!

-I think Anakin goes from hating his Padawan to caring about her too soon.

That’s fair. Though I hit all the same emotional beats as in the original. One option I have is to maybe take out the conversation where they’re sitting down and he says “You might just make it as mine.” That would instead mean they return to HQ just with a shared smile, then at the point where Yoda offers to take Ahsoka back, he objects and keeps her on - but less care is implied. I think I’d rather stick with the original because they still demonstrate tension early, and I don’t mind him warming up to her after what basically amounts to her being too bold and rash, which is a very Anakin thing to do.

the spider bot does disappear from the table, but not really much you can do about that

Shh! Let’s pretend we didn’t notice that! (To my mind it, uh, falls off the table when the camera cuts away.)