It’s not something that registered to me as a major issue that needs fixing, and I don’t have any knowledge about how to do it, but I’d incorporate clean alternate voice lines if anyone did the work to produce them.
Right, it’s complete, save for the usual trimmings, but I need to stop there for tonight. I should get it finished tomorrow.
Awesome, hope you enjoy and feed back!
I’ve seen that clip, I don’t expect to use it though, mostly because I won’t have a place in the narrative for it. But if one becomes apparent, then sure!
I’m rendering a workprint of the Order 66 arc now, so I can check over how the complete new narrative plays out.
My issue with the original finally clicked too - it’s inherently a mystery story, but with no mystery. It’s a 90 minute arc, but where ten minutes in you see the bad guys who are behind it discussing exactly how they’re involved, so there’s no mystery for the audience whatsoever. It’s not fun to watch a character spend 80 minutes catching up to what the audience already knows. (I mean, you could argue that about a prequel series, but that’s not the point! 😉)
Anyway, the entire plot now plays out in pretty much the exact same structure, we just focus on Fives’ perspective so the mystery can unfold for the audience in real time. I did some good condensing work on the second episode too, merging three scenes of Fives in his medical room to just one. That was tricky, as I had to keep the placement of the characters consistent.
Hopefully have this finished today, or tomorrow at the latest.
I’m also planning on checking out a slightly different re-ordering in seasons two and three, with the main goal being to have Maul as an active threat to the galaxy for longer, to slightly pace him better, and to give Ahsoka just a little break in a string of more traumatic experiences.
I’m not quite ready to announce that change formally, as I need to watch it through myself first to see if I need to change any references, but the second tab of my spreadsheet (titled “Ordering working sheet”) shows the planned new ordering, with moved episodes having the letter ‘m’ after their episode number. If anyone’s curious, that is.
We’re nearing the endgame so I’d really like the full end-to-end show to be ready for those who’ll pick it up then.
Really pleased with today’s progress on the Order 66 arc.
Since I was able to remove Fives getting captured from the scene where Tup dies, I’ve got the final two episodes - the second half - down to bang on 30 minutes. I don’t care too much about the length, but really what that trim means is that I’ve been able to keep the pacing of the investigation plot high, so the audience’s focus gets to stay on the intrigue. Fives’ investigation is fully intact, as is most of his tense attempt to get the message to someone he trusts on Coruscant.
I’ve done more in that section to keep the mystery a secret for the viewer. Originally, the audience know from quite early on that Nala Se is in league with the Separatists, and that the Separatists are behind everything. Instead, I’ve kept that offscreen, so that the audience knows only as much as Fives does, so the mystery is higher. Nala Se acts in a way that’s totally valid as someone who wants to cover up a potentially costly mistake, until the very end, where I’ve merged her earlier call with Dooku with her later call with Dooku to have her revealed as a co-conspirator only after Fives is dead, leaving the secret buried (and hanging over the series).
This way, we get the added bonus of discovering that the Jedi may be behind it at the same time as Fives, and having that as a valid supposition for the audience too - we know, after all, that a Jedi ordered the army. This makes Shaak Ti seem a little suspicious too, as the Kaminoan correspondent and the one who brings him to Palpatine before the Jedi.
Until the end, anyone could be responsible - including the possibility that Fives is simply wrong and that the chips (while secretive) are benevolent, and it was indeed a virus causing his and Tup’s erratic behaviour. The tension feels a lot higher like this, and it flows well. There’s a conspiracy without a known conspirator, that gives us momentum all the way through until it gets covered up, and then we learn it’s a worst-case scenario where Sidious behind it all and that it’s some sort of long-planned trap for the Republic.
I also trimmed a shot of the flying whales, the redundant taxi driver conversation, a little of other clones hunting for Fives while he’s at the clone bar (though they’re still seen and searching), and Palpatine being a little too sinister. I also took out a few lines where Fives references Palpatine or says that this goes “to the very top” (though it’s still clear that this is a conspiracy at a very high level) - we just get a bit more plausible deniability from our main characters if Palpatine hasn’t been directly implicated.
I think I’m calling this episode Good Clones Follow Orders, but as usual, I’m open to suggestions.
Good news! I managed to cut Fives’ capture out of Tup’s death scene, which means he keeps a hold of Tup’s chip, so we don’t have to have him captured and freed again, and can focus on the investigation as they sneak around.
This was a tricky one - lots of audio work because the main tracks had a voice echo in them, and lots of shots of other characters in the background. But it works!
A spelling mistake (“Opnion”) in The Enemy Within intro text
I’ve just fixed this, and re-released that episode as version 2.1.
I haven’t seen the arch in a long time, but is there an angle you could take where say its only from Anakin’s perspective? (if you wanted to cut things down) It’ll paint Clovis in a much worse light I’d feel and although some of the political parts may be lost it could prove to help reduce the episode to it’s better parts
(not sure how viable this idea is, given I haven’t seen the arch in a while)
Just to address this directly, I did consider it. I looked into trimming most of the first episode and explaining Padmé’s investigation via the crawl, starting when Anakin breaks her out of prison. But I don’t think we can start with Padmé in prison without seeing the steps that take her there. We know she likes a caper, but I felt like we really needed to see it - plus to see Clovis’ introduction as the arc flows around him.
Just updated The Hand of Greed to v2.1, to fix a tiny error.
Right, got through the initial planning for the Order 66 arc, and everything’s ready for work on the workprint to begin.
It’s a good arc, this, but it loses momentum in a few places: The capture and return of Tup’s body, Fives spending an episode going into and out of Tup’s room, the Jedi and Kaminoans arguing over which medical centre Tup’s body should go to, and Fives leaving Kamino city and returning to it. So I can smooth a lot of that out.
The main question is what exposition and subplots to cut. I think I want to focus this on the mystery and investigation, and in particular Fives’ point of view. I don’t think we need to see Dooku and Sidious worrying about the plot, other than the last scene where they confirm it’s all sorted. I might cut out enough content that it’s only in that final moment that it’s explicit that Sidious is behind the whole thing. I’ll naturally minimise the Sidious-Palpatine connection, as I have done throughout.
I’m not sure yet on how many of the red herrings to follow, nor when to reveal that the Kaminoans are in on it. I might minimise the amount of confusion Tup shows too, which I think would enhance the mystery. I quite like the early suspicion about the Jedi, since they did ostensibly request the clone army at this point in time. I’ll tease all this out through trial and error.
I can cut a lot of the less useful content if Fives keeps hold of Tup’s damaged chip, but that might mean trimming Fives’ reaction to Tup’s death, since Fives gets captured in that scene (to escape again later). I’ll try that edit early to see how feasible it is with trims and zoomed shots.
I won’t trim much of the initial action scene though, as it’s important at this part in the story that we see just how competent and inter-reliant the Jedi-clone combo has become at this stage in the war. I might cut a lot of the establishing shots and context for Ringo Vinda though, since it’s odd that such a protracted battle can be carried out on a ring station that could feasibly be attacked by orbit far more easily, especially since the Jedi retreat but then appear to have ovwerhelming force there, despite Trench later being seen with a huge force. I know it could technically work, but I don’t want the audience to have to jump through those hoops when there’s more important stuff to focus on.
Either way, it’s going to be a fun one to edit because I always like playing with these narrative challenges. Should come out around 50 minutes long, I reckon.
Yeah, I think it finds the middle ground! I very nearly went with ‘Dangerous Desire’ or another alliterative one, but this one popped into my head and I think it’s cleanest for what I’m going for.
This is my longest single episode yet. The Scipio arc isn’t quite brilliant, but it has a lot of good moments, and it does a lot of good work to give us the state of the war and many of the major players as we head towards the show’s conclusion. I didn’t cut it down into shorter episodes because there’s no simple breakpoint - it’s one single narrative and treating it as one keeps it all in focus as the plot progresses.
I included ‘Ahsoka’s Decision’ (even though its animation style is slightly different) and modified a little dialogue to do as much as I could to have the loss of Ahsoka visibly affect Anakin in this series - something we didn’t have before due to the show’s cancellation and revival. The new scene hasn’t got quite the same aesthetic, and it’s a little lower visual quality, but it’s the best I can do for now.
Noteworthy changes:
This now lightly forms a trilogy intended to give a bit more weight to Ahsoka’s loss in this order - Mortis, Ahsoka’s Fall, and Scipio (with one break in the middle to allow Anakin a breather offscreen).
Onwards to the Order 66 arc!
Here’s a little demo clip for Scipio. Here I’m editing Obi-Wan’s and Anakin’s conversation to reference losing Ahsoka. Now both the cold open (the fireside chat) and this scene reference it. It isn’t much, but I think I’ve done about as much as the available content allows to have Ahsoka’s loss referenced in actual episodes of the Clone Wars as strongly as it can be.
I’m pretty pleased with my use of ‘but there’s more, isn’t there’ to transition us from the one topic to another.
The only things we lose from this scene by cutting it this way are a bit more of Anakin’s distrust and dislike of Clovis (already well established), focusing it instead on Anakin’s possessive protection of Padmé. We also lose that it’s Yoda who feels Anakin is a bit off, but I think it works better to have Obi-Wan realise it after their fireside chat.
Hm, but then I lose the angle of Anakin’s greedy ownership of Padmé. Not that that’s vital, but the character moments are really the core- especially with how I’m including the fireside chat about Ahsoka leaving…
I struggled to name this one (the Scipio episode).
I settled on ‘The Grasp of Greed’ because I wanted to reference two things: Firstly, the main plot, which is about control of money (and control of the people who control the money); Secondly, the character plot, which is about Anakin’s jealous possessive behaviour towards Padmé.
But it’s probably the title I like the least, of all that I’ve created. I’m open to suggestions for something more appropriate.
(As a note, I’d hoped to get this finished last week but struggled with some technical elements. Should be done next week.)
The problem with that is that Jar Jar also appears in AOTC, ROTS, and TCW, which adds some burden if you’re looking to cover all your bases, and it also means that a viewer of such a TPM edit is left with less choice of fanedits for the other prequel movies.
This sounds interesting! I thought Holdo was an interesting character and the way she was used to show Poe that he can’t have heroics without leadership was really good - what’s your motivation behind her removal? And I’m also curious about your removal of the bombing run.
Having played with Peter Pan’s idea a little, there are some logistical challenges with this approach which it might be worth collectively considering.
Firstly, that initial transition. I agree that ideally you’d open on the Jedi going underwater, but this being Star Wars, we really should begin in space. We could follow the ambassador’s ship (now just anyone’s ship) into the Trade Federation ship, but then we should really have some scene on the ship itself, perhaps implying that the two Neimoidians have just arrived to oversee the situation. The invasion trigger shouldn’t happen until after the Gungan negotiations, but there is one scene of the two Neimoidians walking (away from the monitor) which might be usable with a zoomed shot and some alternate lines.
Secondly, context. Whatever the first scene with the Jedi is, it needs to carry some of the exposition we’d otherwise cut, setting them up as negotiators and mystics. I’ve had a bit of a play with this on top of Peter Pan’s ideas but haven’t finalised my thoughts yet, and you can’t do too much voice work without it becoming “fan-edity”. And while we don’t need the underwater fish stuff, some of the dialogue on the bongo can be a bit useful in emphasising what the Force is (“The force will guide us”, “maxi big the force.”)
Thirdly, the negotiation itself. It’s very short unless the Jedi are already aware of an attack, so I think it’s worth having the attack foreseen by the Jedi, as explained in the crawl. I think the best angle with this approach is that the Jedi are actively trying to forge an alliance to defend against invasion - this plan is used in the finale so it makes sense to use the Jedi in this way, plus it makes the failiure of the negotiations (and the speed of the attack) the catalyst for escalation of drama on Naboo (which will be later resolved at the movie’s conclusion). It also works with the lines about the Naboo guard being ill-equipped to defend against the Federation army.
Perhaps then-
The Galactic Republic is failing. As its
ability to protect its worlds diminishes,
the greedy TRADE FEDERATION have
grown increasingly bold in their quest
to exploit vulnerable planets.
QUEEN AMIDALA, elected ruler of the
verdant planet Naboo, fears an attack.
But a rift has grown between her
people and their former allies, the
Gungan warriors, leaving her with
little hope.
Foreseeing an invasion, The Jedi
Order, mystical wielders of THE FORCE
and defenders of the Republic, have
dispatched Jedi Knight QUI-GON JINN
and his apprentice to re-forge the
alliance on Naboo before the situation
escalates.
It’d also be nice to have them account for the failiure of the negotiations - probably using the line “Well you were right about one thing master; the negotiations were short.” But again you’re wrestling with voice lines there.
Wow, I really like this idea! The two biggest issues I had with the introduction were those that took out all momentum before you’d even begun: Firstly the Jedi on the Trade Federation ship, and secondly the Jedi’s introduction to Jar Jar. But my earlier idea, to skip the TF ship, robbed the Jedi of some useful context and their official role as negotiators, and left you with a lot of work to introduce them to Jar Jar.
Having the Jedi’s purpose being to negotiate with the Gungans and Naboo is a far more elegant idea - and then the Trade Federation attack can come as a suprise. It’s also far neater than worrying about trade negotiations and taxation - if we set up Gungans/Naboo as the central conflict, it’s well paid off by the later plot elements which bring it full circle, and I think make up for the additional focus on the Gungans. We’ve also spoken a lot in this thread about anchoring the plot of this first film much more around Queen Amidala and Naboo, allowing the other world-building elements (for future films) to emerge naturally through the story.
I might not execute the idea exactly as you did, but the idea of a quick context-setting negotiation that fails, followed by a suprise invasion and escape, is far more interesting and keeps the energy up where it’s needed. I might give this a bash myself.
I also loved how you used some alternate lines, including Qui-Gon’s “anxieties” line and Jar Jar’s “negotiations” from the Clone Wars.
Here’s a quick little attempt at a crawl.
The Galactic Republic is failing. As
its ability to protect its worlds
diminishes, the greedy TRADE FEDERATION
have grown increasingly bold in their
quest to exploit vulnerable planets.
QUEEN AMIDALA, elected ruler of the
verdant planet Naboo, stands as a vocal
champion of peace. But tension is
growing between her people and the
native Gungans, and she has petitioned
the Senate for aid.
In response, The Jedi Order, mystical
wielders of THE FORCE and defenders of
the Republic, have dispatched Jedi
Knight QUI-GON JINN and his apprentice
to seek a peaceful solution.
I think the greater good is keeping it as one here, because the more boring scenes are still necessary for the whole plot, so watching it in one gives the better flow out of slightly weaker content. Same with the light implication I’d like to make by placing the fireside chat about losing Ahsoka at the front.
I’m struggling a little on Scipio. It’s an easy episode from one perspective, because it’s a simple linear story. The only real issue is that it’s long, and loses a bit of momentum with some of the political stuff - I just don’t know if it’s good enough to deserve 70 minutes (my longest by far).
It does have good action, good Padmé/Anakin/Dooku content, and a a good focus on the state of the war for this point in the series. It’s just a bit dry for its length, despite a lot of it being relevant.
I’ve got three minor trims to make: (1) Making Anakin and Obi-Wan’s chat lightly reference Ahsoka, (2) a minor line about Padmé’s security, and (3) Removing a hint at the Sidious-Palpatine connection. But I might see if there are some earlier scenes I can cut outright and just cover via the opening text.
Thoughts?
So, there’s an upcoming six episode, 15 minute anthology series set during the prequel timeframe coming soon, called Tales of the Jedi. Three episodes will focus on Dooku, and three on Ahsoka.
A little info has been revealed, a little more (that’s apparently credible) has been leaked, so a plan has been forming.
Since Dooku and Ahsoka are both key to this period, it makes sense to me to incorporate what I can into TCW:R.
POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILERS BELOW
Apparently, some scenes will occur during the Clone Wars:
Some episodes we know will occur prior to the Clone Wars, such as Ahsoka’s youth, and Dooku leaving the Jedi order. What I’ll probably do in this case is create a SEASON ZERO, “Prelude to the Clone Wars”, which will feature those elements plus the two prequel movies. (I might eventually cut the prequel movies into episodes, but it’s a far lower priority so I’ll probably leave those as a placeholder in my spreadsheet like I currently do with the ROTS movie.)
I don’t feel like I have to be completely beholden to chronological order, though. For example, it might make more sense to introduce Ahsoka’s backstory episode as part of s01e01, where she joins the main story. I’ll think on that when it appears.
Anyway, I might need a hand making an alternative logo for season zero. Something light touch, changing the logo into either ‘Prelude to the CLONE WARS’ or ‘THE CLONE WARS Prelude to War’, like this.
Anyway, I’m working on Scipio now.
Is there maybe a viable order where the elevator scene comes before the training, which comes before the meeting with Padmé? So in the elevator they’re talking about the forthcoming meeting, but they have training first?
That way it could almost play out that Obi-Wan has deliberately scheduled some training to get Anakin out of awkward teenager mode and clear his head.
This might not work, I’m just spitballing!
I’d recommend watching as much of TCW:R as possible because I think I’ve highlighted all of the arcs which give you the most value for money- so if your goal is “maximum good” then that’s what I’m going for here. But if you want to speed run it quickly then the episodes with a red tick by them are the bare minimum to get you ready for other media. Geonosis is good too.
In terms of Anakin/Dooku, technically any fight they have doesn’t conflict with ROTS, so I haven’t actively cut any (other than passively just cutting weaker episodes), but it’s fairly minimal if memory serves.
Same deal with Obi-Wan/Grievous.
The show does avoid having Grievous see Anakin though, so there’s no conflict with Grievous’ “You’re taller than I expected” in ROTS.
I’d recommend you just watch!