EddieDean

TK-422 said:

Any thought on removing the “Lifting rocks” line when Rey does lift rocks at the end of the film? It felt too on the nose, if the shot before transitioning to Luke and Kylo was just her facing the boulders, I think it would work a lot better.

I think this is one of a few instances of deliberate irony in the film. Luke tells Rey that the force isn’t about lifting rocks, but it’s how she saves the resistance in the end. Similarly Luke insists Rey’s wrong to expect him to pick up a lightsaber and face down the First Order, and then that’s exactly what he ends up doing. It’s fate’s jest.

Pre-Edit: You really should call this project ‘FROM A CONSISTENT POINT OF VIEW’.

I think this is a really noble goal and totally agree that it’s worth creating an area for discussing issues which span the saga, rather than those which are limited to individual films. I think this kind of thread is very useful for solving issues like Leia’s memories of her mother, or the kind of popular issues which Snooker has mentioned, such as only Vader being Darth.

I think you have a couple of major challenges:

• The more content you include, the more potential edits need to be made. And bear in mind, as the universe grows, more content is going to be important for more people, thus worthy of inclusion. Some people could take or leave Clone Wars, but it’s increasingly being respected as a major part of the canon. To give just one example, now that we know that it’s likely that Ahsoka (probably the most popular non-movie character) may appear in yet another TV show, people may want Clone Wars to be included in this. Do we then need to remove all instances of ‘Darth’ Tyrannus, all instances of Dooku being referred to as a former Jedi, do we need to rotoscope his lightsaber in all instances from the Clone Wars? (I’m not saying those are changes which need to be made, but those are all things which have been mentioned in prequel edits to solve that one particular issue some people have.) If we decide Y wings should be in their ‘naked’ OT design, what happens if they’re all over the live action series with their full prequel armour?
• So, you need to define the scope. Expansion beyond the Skywalker saga and era probably (but not definitely!) will have a lesser impact - Rian Johnson’s trilogy and the trilogy by the Game of Thrones team will probably not impact this era. BUT, this third animated show, and/or newly announced live action show, and/or additional Anthology movies, could reinforce elements of canon you may otherwise wish to excise. The Kenobi anthology might have him not shut up about ‘Darth’ Maul. The live action series or Han Solo movie might talk about ‘Darth’ Sidious and keep showing his ridiculous EpIII face.
• You’re also limited by certain sources. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure the majority of people will consider Adywan’s OT edits to be the ideal version of the OT, or at least the base template, due to its quality colour and fixes like the Wampa, the arm that gets cut off in the cantina, etc etc. But what if people really object to certain fixes he’s made? What if they really hate his Yoda lips? What if they have a problem with his new footage for the changed Endor moon battles? Even then, I’d assume people wouldn’t want to go back and use other existing OT sources, would they?
• How much handwaving do we allow? “From a certain point of view” Vader killed Anakin. “From a certain point of view” Leia remembers her mother. “From a certain point of view” Obi Wan never owned a Droid. “From a certain point of view” Yoda trained Obi Wan.

Now I’m not saying I have the answers here - I’m just putting the questions up for discussion. But for me, for what it’s worth, I’d argue as follows:

• To reduce the need to make ever-increasing changes, and to keep the project futureproof, the canon is largely the canon. Jar Jar exists, and talks in that horrible voice. Dooku was a former Jedi, and is now Darth Tyrannus. Luke and Leia are seen at the end of Ep3, and known to be Vader’s children. Yoda is seen throughout the prequels and Clone Wars as a Jedi. Other darkiside force users use Force Lightning. Prequel ships are high tech. Holograms are inconsistent quality, and sometimes colour and sometimes all blue. We can’t avoid this. The Saga is the Saga now - not just supplements to the gravity of the Original Trilogy.
• As for Scope, it should at least be movies and TV. You could argue only movies, and that’s fair enough. But increasingly the TV is more canon, and that’s likely to continue. You could argue to add non-adaptation books and comics too. But I think you get into an area of diminishing returns at that point. Personal example: I enjoy the Phasma comic well enough, but does that mean we need to keep the line about the trash compactor in EpVII too? I think that’s a step too far for something I find grating.
• Regarding sources, once we have identified our core objectives, we should identify the sources to use. And, perhaps, let those sources inform our objectives in terms of minimising work/adherence to our goals. I strongly think the Adywan OT should be our core OT - give or take any easily doable edits to them that we choose to add on top, like (for example only) adding the Imperial March to Vader’s Tantive entrance, or perhaps fixing Leia’s mother in EpVI rather than EpIII. Similarly, it looks very likely that Hal9000(+collaborators)'s edits to EpVII will be a viable template there.
• I think the issue of handwaving things as a “certain point of view” is what we really want to minimise, a core goal of this project. You should be able to watch without going ‘wait, her mum was dead last time I saw her, better check Wookieepedia’ or ‘I’m sure I’ve seen Obi Wan with loads of droids, plus he knew R2, better ask my nerdier friend’. Ultimately, we shouldn’t be providing answers to these awkward questions - we should be avoiding awkward questions in the first place.

Where individual edits have fixed individual movies and improved their quality, and trilogy edits have sought internal consistency and sometimes also extra consistency with the rest of the saga, generally the approach has been that you can replace any individual movie with any fanedit (or trilogy of fanedits) without a change.

But now, what we’re proposing here is a more radical approach, where all edits in this project are consistent with each other, rather than able to be individually popped out. To that end, once we’ve established this project’s principles, I propose we use some identifier where we can say ‘this edit is a part of the FROM A CONSISTENT POINT OF VIEW (or whatever) project’. CONPoV can then be the principles, rather than the edits. If you want to buy into the CONPoV idea then we can present an index of edits (and even original unedited versions) which comply with the project’s goals. Maybe we discover that the original ESB or Rogue One is already perfectly consistent. Maybe Adywan’s ANH already fixes that film’s consistency issues. Maybe we even give edits a CONPoV rating. Then we’ve identified the films which need further work, and direct our efforts. And it also allows for users to create their own alternative edits (if they want to) which are still CONPoV consistent. In fact, if that all sounds a bit much, I’d be more than happy to maintain a spreadsheet of the principles we settle on and the degree to which existing originals and edits adhere.

Maybe if we could get one of this site’s master CG artists to put a Red Plom Bloom on one of the Kaiju we could make it work.

(Respectful) thoughts on MalàStrana’s suggested list, for balance (no offense Malà, this is my opinion only ❤️)

• Cut Poe and Finn’s conversation after Finn says “Because it’s the right thing to do” [DigMod Edit]

I liked this. You need a pilot/I need a pilot is funny and telling. We know Finn’s a moral guy (he’s just defected), so I don’t think this cheapens him, but it shows (like later with Han) that he’s not quite sure how to position himself yet so he often shoots for heroic. I think that’s quite telling too - that’s what he thinks non-FO people value. It’s who he wants to be seen as, whether or not he is yet.

• Cut Finn’s “this is what we look like, some of us” lines [DigMod Edit]

Agree. A little wobbly.

• Cut Finn and Rey’s excessive teenage celebration after they make it to space [DigMod Edit]

No, this is delightful! They’re young, they’ve just done something really great together, they’re excited, they’re clumsy!

• Cut the “14 parsecs” dialogues

I like this, personally. Han is a legend, and with the Solo movie coming out soon too it’ll be nice to have the continuity. I don’t think this is an egregious easter egg.

• Cut the cameo of the sphere Luke used in Episode IV

This, however, I totally agree on. A bit too cheap/convenient, takes you out of it.

• Cut Poe’s bull’s eye shots to free Han-Chewie-Finn [DigMod Edit] (not sure I doable seamlessly)

Not sure what you mean by this. I don’t think I noticed any egregiously perfect shooting.

• Cut Poe’s references to his jacket when talking to Finn [DigMod Edit, but keep the “you completed my mission” part of the dialogue]

Like with Finn and Rey, I disagree. It’s a really cute moment which quickly establishes a relationship. Finn’s a good enough guy to offer it back; Poe’s a good enough guy to want to encourage Finn.

• Remove troopers walking away from Ren’s wrath after he discovers Rey is missing [DigMod Edit]

I thought this served a double purpose: First, it was one of the most genuinely funny moments in the film (without being a forced joke), and second, it shows that this is actually the kind of thing Ren’s prone to. It works, for me at least, that he’s brash and emotional like Anakin, and unstable too.

• Trim Leia’s lines about good old times with Han “there was good moments” “pretty good”

Not sure on this. I really like that Han and Leia had ups and downs (more downs) - it made their relationship feel tangible.

• Cut the “I’m in charge now !” part when Han and Finn encounter Phasma

Yep. Agree. Clumsy.

• Cut Finn’s Episode IV reference “Trash compactor”

Far too cheeky a reference. They wouldn’t be joking then.

• Cut Snoke’s lines about Ren who needs to finish his training

Indifferent here. On the one hand, we don’t see Ren finish his training in TLJ. On the other hand, Rian Johnson’s confirmed that it was intended that killing Rey was finishing his training. On the third hand (?) that’s not explicit at all, so you could just as easily get away with “Bring Ren to me”.

• Trim down the “puzzle map” scene so it get faster (it’s so obvious I don’t get why Poe needs to wait on BB8 request to give him/her the usb key)

Yeah, fair enough.

The issue of the reveal of Ren’s parentage is the only other one on your list I’m not personally sure of. It’s mentioned a lot around here but I don’t particularly see the value in delaying the reveal to a more dramatic moment (such as with Han and Ren on the gantry in the most extreme case). Is the intention to make it a bit of a one-two punch?

For me (and maybe only me) it worked fine as is. Learning he was Solo’s son early gave me more time in the cinema to mull over the tragedy of it all, as the plot drove towards their confrontation. Knowing he was a ‘failed’ Skywalker made him more compelling and tragic throughout the movie.

(I suppose, as an aside, one thing that the sequel trilogy does well IMO is paint Kylo as one of the main characters on a par with Rey, in contrast to Vader who was, in the originals, much more of a foil to Luke rather than originally a tragic character in himself - Vader’s revelation was Luke’s tragedy, whereas Ren’s is Ren’s. Similarly Vader’s revelation is a vital beat in Luke’s story, but Ren’s isn’t in Han’s, as Han already knows.)

Perhaps my argument here is that aiming to hide the revelation only serves to suprise the audience, but it doesn’t suprise any of the main characters, so it doesn’t add to their emotional arcs. And as revealing it to the audience later doesn’t carry additional emotional heft for our main heroes (because it’s not a suprise), we’re not taken on a different emotional journey by hearing it either here or there. And as I said earlier, when you do leave it as is you get the persistent discomfort and anticipation about their eventual confrontation.

Sir Ridley said:

EddieDean said:

It’s in brackets in your changelist, but I’m not sure why you’d remove the shot of the droid alerting the resistance. Are you considering it for the sake of making the X-Wing/Poe reveal a bit more surprising?

If it were up to me, I’d keep that in. Both the First Order and Resistance get messaged, both send in the cavalry- that makes sense to me. I think having one and not the other only risks raising the question for a viewer, when we’re already wondering how Poe survived. I don’t think the excitement of an unexpected heroic rescue outweighs what you lose.

Yeah, you may be right, I will reconsider this. The idea was to give more suspense to the First Order spy discovering them and keep the Resistance bit secret.

I thought that might be the case. I forget which order the two spies notify their masters in, but if it goes FO>R then probably changing it to R>FO would have your intended effect. That way it’d be Resistance hope > First Order threat > First Order arrive first and get the drop on us > Resistance arrive just in time. But it might already be that. Alternatively, for a similar effect to increase the threat of FO and minimise hope for the Resistance, how about changing the droid’s subtitles to imply the Resistance may not get the message? “If anybody is picking this up, please notify the Resistance that I’ve found the droid!” or similar. Maybe even as explicit as “The First Order have a spy here! They’re coming for the droid!”

Edit: Or, to put it another way, the risk of the Resistance not making it in time can be as tense as us not expecting them to show up at all.

It’s in brackets in your changelist, but I’m not sure why you’d remove the shot of the droid alerting the resistance. Are you considering it for the sake of making the X-Wing/Poe reveal a bit more surprising?

If it were up to me, I’d keep that in. Both the First Order and Resistance get messaged, both send in the cavalry- that makes sense to me. I think having one and not the other only risks raising the question for a viewer, when we’re already wondering how Poe survived. I don’t think the excitement of an unexpected heroic rescue outweighs what you lose.

Definitely eight of the best, very excited about this one.

Fantastic news Smudger9, really looking forward to more of these!

Edit: I have some questions for you, if you have the time:

• A long time ago in this thread (Aug 2015) you suggested that you were going to imply that Sidious kills off Maul after their fight. Presumably, now that Maul returns in rebels, you’re no longer going to do that?
• If you are indeed going to keep Maul, I wonder if you’ll be able to find a more elegant transition from where we leave him in Clone Wars (“I have other plans for you”) to where we find him in Rebels (oh, dumped on Malachor?) I know in the canon comic he was broken out of prison and went on to do more Mandalorian chaos before ultimately getting beaten back down in an every-active-dark-force-user fight, but I think I’m one of the ten people who actually read that.
• In your third movie, Children of the Force, you mention in the changelog that an additional space battle is inserted between Holocron Heist and Cargo of Doom. Which episode is the source of the footage?
• Which episodes do you plan on turning into your Movie 5?
• Which episodes do you plan on turning into your other movies?
• Which episodes do you plan to exclude from any of your edits altogether?

On Phasma’s return, let’s put it this way: The issue is definitely that she does little in TFA, and appears to die, then returns in TLJ to do very little again then appears to die again.

Removing her from TLJ is one way to minimise some of the relative weakness of that plot. Her arc, or rather Finn’s arc, becomes that she’s Finn’s overseer in TFA and ultimately he disposes of her. We don’t see her again.

However, without needing to wait two years between movies (which we can do now that TLJ is out), I think the better arc is as follows:

• She’s Finn’s overseer in TFA
• Finn leaves the First Order
• She doesn’t appear again in TFA - it’s not implied that she died on SKB
• Finn’s a traitor to the FO but struggles to commit to the Resistance in TLJ
• She appears in TLJ the way she currently does, reinforcing that Finn is a traitor to the FO in a scene where, through DJ, we learn one of the key issues of not picking a side.
• Finn kills her for good, shortly before we see him properly commit to the Resistance.

That way, one of the key weaknesses of her character (“die” > return > die) is removed, but she gives Finn the stronger arc and his (one on-screen) killing of her is a part of his journey towards being able to commit to the Resistance. The change this’d require is her removal from the SKB scenes of TFA.

Hal, your 4.2s are my archival versions, and I love everything you’ve suggested for 4.3.

The only thing I’m just not sure about is the Emperor, Vader and Tarkin looking out on a prototype Death Star, especially one with the dish on the equator.

Firstly, a prototype Death Star has exactly the same issue as the real one - that it’s just part of the slideshow where pieces are put into place to line up with the OT.

Secondly, there’s nothing in the films that suggests a prototype was ever created, so I think it adds something new to the world without adding anything new to the plot, or any meaningfulness to our characters.

Thirdly, I think the reveal of the Death Star is really beautifully done in Rogue One (and well set up in Rebels, for those that watch that), and that seeing it early takes away from that.

For these reasons I think either of your initial ideas work (leave it, or replace with Coruscant) - personally favouring Coruscant.

EDIT:
One question though - while you are revisiting your edits, could you please consider releasing identical versions but retaining the original titles of the films in the crawls? I respect your right to put your mark on them, and to recognise them as significantly changed movies - plus I’m not a huge fan of the original titles - but personally I’d like to pretend that yours are the master versions as originally released. (I hope you take that as the compliment it’s intended as.)

Just another voice to back up this ^.

While the PT isn’t as great as the rest of the saga, a lot of us here do consider it canon and part of the full Star Wars story. So even though it’s understandable that some want to ignore it, please at least don’t make any changes that contradict it!

Personally, anything that makes me feel like it’s all one world (rather than prequel world versus original world) such as the addition of a battle droid in the sandcrawler junk, or a K2 droid on a Star Destroyer bridge, are always welcome - but that’s more personal taste.

Bear in mind that one of the main reasons that people are part of this community is because they really want to enjoy the prequels - the first high-profile fan edit was Ep1 and the prequels are the most fanedited movies of all time. So there are a whole lot of people who really, really want to make the prequels part of their saga.

It sounds like you’re taking the balanced approach, and besides, you owe us nothing at all and we’ll be grateful for whatever you create, but I just wanted to throw one more voice in the ring.

^ Love this!

Congratulations on the success of the challenge and meeting key milestones - absolutely well deserved ady and I can’t wait to see what you do with eps 4 and 6.

Here’s a question which I don’t think has been addressed yet: Will the Ghost (from the Rebels TV show) appear in your ROTJ (or indeed ANH)? A little cameo like your inclusion of Chopper at Echo Base would be awesome.

We know from Rogue One that Hera, Chopper and The Ghost are present at the battle of Scarif (so very much active at the time of the destruction of the first Death Star), and we now know from one of the Forces of Destiny shorts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs_vQgnVnIM) that Hera, Chopper and The Ghost at the very least are present during the aftermath of the Battle of Endor. Given that, it’s not a huge leap to allow for their presence during the space battle of the Second Death Star - it’d be great to see it at least in the background of the odd shot.

Congratulations on ESB:R Ady and very good luck with ROTJ:R. Your two existing works are absolute masterpieces and I look forward to your last.

One important thing: There are a lot of passionate fans of yours here and elsewhere, and because of that passion you’ll be under a lot of pressure regarding certain change requests, the prequels you’re now not doing, etc. Please never let that pressure feel stronger than the support this community has for you. These are your edits, not ours - and while everyone’s passionately eager for different things, you have the absolute trust and support of this community. We are certain you will produce something incredible, and everyone will be utterly grateful for the final result, whatever form it takes.

Edit: I’ll be contributing cash early next month.

NeverarGreat said:

Watching ESB again last night, I had the thought that perhaps the second Wampa was supposed to be a female, and that the male which attacked Luke was elsewhere in that scene. I wonder if that was supposed to be the implication all along, since they had filmed several Wampas attacking Echo base.

Nah it’s not that. There’re interviews out there where they discuss that they filmed the Wampa originally on location, but that the original model got damaged in transit back before they did pickups back in the UK, so they had to rebuild it. It’s intended to be the same Wampa.

Ady’s problem is that if he were to try to imitate the Wampa it’d still be inconsistent with either of the existing ones, so he’s replacing both with one consistent model.

Possessed said:

So you’ll make Episode III: Less Grievances edit then? =)

Fewer Grievances! 😃

Sounds fantastic. This’ll probably become my archival version. I don’t think TFA needs much changed at all - I totally agree with HAL9000’s reshaping of the Starkiller firing, and NeverarGreat’s R2 database scan. Other than that some gentle trims to the humour make sense, but beyond that it’s just the Rathtar sequence which I never enjoyed.

You’ve said you’ll cut down the Rathtars - is this the version that I think appeared in HAL9000’s thread where they effectively release the Rathtars then just escape from Han’s ship, with none of the running around in corridors?

I put some thought into this back before The Last Jedi’s title was announced, and ended up suggesting it for a couple of the earlier films. I wanted to keep the titles as Original-Trilogy-Star-Warsy as possible without spoiling any plots.

1. RETURN OF THE SITH. Sith already a scary word, this implies an old threat coming back.
2. Clone Wars only really start at the end. But nothing really happens in this one. So could swing towards the relationship between ObiWan and Anakin (MASTER AND APPRENTICE, emphasising the training and that each have their own arcs in this film), or even something force-y, like DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE, as enemy plans increase and Anakin gets tempted. Maybe LURE OF THE DARK SIDE. Or DARK FORCE RISING.
3. TWILIGHT OF THE REPUBLIC: Implies the Clone Wars come to a major end, a falling, the start of a new chapter, but without giving away the plot like ‘Rise of the Empire’ might
   3.5) Rogue One is OK.
4. A New Hope is pretty good, but maybe The Last Hope, or even THE LAST JEDI, to show off how far hope has fallen and how dire things are. Or even REBEL STRIKE, though the action comes fairly late. Not convinced.
5. The Empire doesn’t even strike back in this film. Other than attacking a single rebel base. But it’s not really a retaliation. What happens? They flee Hoth, Luke trains in Dagobah, Vader captures them at Cloud City, Dad fight. So, no idea. LURE OF THE DARK SIDE could work here.
6. THE LAST JEDI could also work here, since Obi Wan is dead, Yoda dies/is in hiding, and it emphasises the odds against Luke. Though you have been told ‘there is another’ in Empire.
7. The force does awaken in a couple of people. But I like SHADOW OF THE EMPIRE because it shows the resurgent threat, and reminds you that the First Order is just the Empire reborn.

I’m sure there’ll be a re-release of IV when V comes out, but for now, is there a 1080p version of IV still available? As far as I remember the only version of IV that there was had a dodgy aspect ratio.

TV’s Frink said:

This collection of files is not updated anymore (it’s been a few years so it doesn’t include recent edits) but for a long time I did exhaustive tracking of every single change made to every edit I was able to get my hands on. If you go to fanedit.info and search “frink” you can find it in “The Prequel Cut List.”

Frink, I couldn’t find it there, and while I did find an older post of yours with all of the cutlists and the master spreadsheets by googling ‘Frink Prequel Cut List’, the megaupload links to the master spreadsheets weren’t available. Care to reupload?

Hal 9000 said:
That’s… a very not bad idea. Good call with the cut shot of Leia. I’ll hunt around for dialogue for Leia, if people would like to send clips of themselves yelling out, “Will the Republic send the fleet to help?” Or something like that.

Are any of these at all serviceable?

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0hILHy8eM9s

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1hDxbdLhSkB

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mLDkUABO0D

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GLz7a60puE (There’s two in this one)

Recorded on my phone, but if there’s anything I can do with that to make it better quality or a more suitable tone, let me know.

DominicCobb said:

One last suggestion:

Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire.

Failing to convince the New Republic of this emerging threat, General Leia Organa mobilizes a brave RESISTANCE as the First Order prepares a secret weapon that will secure their return to power.

Desperate for her brother’s help, Leia has sent her most trusted pilot on a daring mission to Jakku, where a clue has been discovered to Luke’s whereabouts…

Best one yet. I’d replace ‘prepares a secret weapon’ with ‘completes a secret weapon’, implying that (1) its threat looms over the plot, and (2) that it’s only recently been completed, so unlikely to be known yet.