Drop Maz’s sexual comment, but keep the milk scene! Luke’s a cantankerous old man now, and he’s trying to disprove some of his own myth.
Can’t wait for this; it sounds bang on.
Hal’s TLJ is for people like me who thought it was an impeccable film with just a handful of niggles. It makes some very smart little cuts just to shorten some of the more immersion-breaking humour (while keeping the film funny), and its main cut is the Fathier chase and other elements on the casino planet (the Finn story, as you mentioned). Well worth your time.
Too early to ask about Ep6? 😃
Edit: Should have been PM
Awesome, I look forward to seeing it!
Please update for V, now that it’s out. Also, you should change the period in the title to a question mark.
Done. And tweaked based on some feedback from smudger in the Fanedit forums. Once I’ve done my rewatch of smudger’s movies, I’ll also do a polish pass on this list. I’ll check the non-moviefied episodes for chronology and quality. Quality will be subjective but that can’t be helped.
I’ve had one for my colleagues for the last few years, I’ve refined it now with as much info as I can glean about the current plan for the movies, from all of Smudger’s previous comments on Fanedit forums and here. It aims to give as much info as possible - original order, chronological, arcs, quality, inclusion in Smudger’s movies and proposed movies, and a hybrid ordering for if you want to watch the movies alongside the episodes not included.
Image defaulting to hybrid order (what you were asking for above) here: https://imgur.com/a/kKpdar1
Or you can play around with the list via filters here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wUlU_myy1Jgn2S59_fvuddCGpjQw3KTmav79lr0KeyI/edit?usp=sharing
Edit: Smudger, I’d welcome your input if any of that’s inaccurate!
Great discussion here. I love the idea of the Reydream including the tree and the books with a little voice echo, though think active pushing from Force Ghosts is maybe a little much.
The idea of having Maz be the holder of the location of the Resistance base is great too.
I’d hold fire on the explanation of how Maz got the lightsaber though, at least until we’ve seen Ep9. It was last seen falling from Cloud City, and with Lando returning, there’s a fairly likely chance that gives the writers a neat Lando > Maz angle.
I just watched your latest version Hal and it’s absolutely magnificent. Subtle changes which overall just tighten up the movie fantastically. And I thought the entire Canto Bight plot was seamless and not jarring or too minimal in the slightest.
The Finn/Rose escape from Snoke’s ship is still a little problematic, with underwhelming Phasma and the cartoony BB8/AT-AT segment, but I can’t really see other options there.
Brilliant, brilliant work.
[Hyperventilates in aurebesh]
Looks like the larger arcs not yet covered are:
I think that’s everything not already covered by your series.
From (poor) memory:
Corruption was I think just Ahsoka
Citadel was Anakin and Obi-Wan
Umbara was clones, then Anakin later(?)
Kadavo was Anakin and Obi-Wan
Onderon was Anakin, Obi-Wan(?) and Ahsoka
Clovis was just Padme
I think you get most bang for your buck in terms of continuity with the whole saga with Citadel/Umbara(no Anakin) > Umbara (Anakin) > Onderon, peppered with as much decent Mando stuff as you can get in there. But that’s without taking into account quality, length of time, transitions, etc etc.
If it were just me, though this is probably unpopular opinion, I’d be happy to just have a ‘misc’/anthology episode for the sake of keeping as much content as possible rather than worry too much about structure.
Looks fantastic Smudger! When’s the full ep5 due to drop?
Do you have plans to dive into episode 6 now or will you take a break?
I’ll put an audition video together!
Anyone aware if the re-do of EpIV was released in the end no reply from PM can imagine Smudgers inbox is quite busy at the moment.
I PM’d Smudger for it but got no response. Seems like he’s been pulled away from the project for the time being.
Sorry, I meant to write “I don’t think that loving someone equates to whipped, so I don’t think your analysis really proposes a candidate for editing”, then I got carried away. You’re right, our discussion above has no place here.
I don’t think that loving someone equates to whipped. My reading from those scenes was that he had a deep platonic, romantic, and sexual relationship with someone who was his partner in crime, his partner in survival, and probably the only significant and non-exploitative relationship he’d ever had. We as an audience can sympathise with his desperation at wanting to get back to her to help her. That’s relatable to me, and doesn’t include a power imbalance (which ‘whipped’ would imply).
Then, we’re taken on his journey of tragedy as he sees what’s happened to her in his absence. At first he believes that she’s been merely exploited, but by the end of the film we realise that her survival instinct has forged her into something darker, who would sacrifice this positive and healthy relationship at the altar of power. It’s significant to Han that she was willing to sacrifice trust and support and human connection with Han for this - more so than if she were just throwing away a friendship.
I think that aligns perfectly with what we know of Han at the start of the OT. He’s burned out on love, doesn’t trust even deep connections or others’ trust in him, and while attracted to Leia is callous and harsh with his attraction. He’s built a wall of cockiness and swagger to protect him from a deeper connection, and when he returns at the end of ANH he’s not just returning to the rebellion but also returning to an adoptive family of mutual trust and support. Even as he’s dropped into carbonite he struggles to reciprocate Leia’s love - that’s more powerful knowing what mutual love has cost him before.
I like your first one, Poster2.jpg.
I’ve no idea what Phrosted means.
I’ve taken a crack at a spreadsheet to record issues and their resultant scene fixes, for those who think there’s value there. Here’s a screenshot with the first example. Feedback welcome.
Wow, this thread is moving fast. It’s already getting a little difficult to get a handle on.
I’d expected it to take a very top-down approach, which is what I’m used to at work, but it seems like this thread is naturally leading towards a bottom-up one, where individual issues are being raised and discussed and solutions around them are forming.
That’s not a criticism at all, either is valid and will yield good results, but top-down and bottom-up can’t really both work together, at least not in a loose environment like a forum. So let’s lean into bottom-up for a moment and think about how a bit of structure might help.
If we’re going to be generating issues for discussion, instead of trying to find a coherent shared approach for movies, let’s see how well we can fix those issues by editing individual scenes, as a few people already have to great effect. I’d propose building a library of edited scenes in order that we can settle on which components warrant inclusion at a later date. This way, we focus on practicality without needing to come to a consensus right now. And if we have edited scenes to hand, it takes the pressure off a single set of edits - editors can simply select the elements they prefer the most. And it also takes the main editing pressure off individuals, since snipping and reordering scenes is one of the easier editing tasks. We can also, with permission, take edited scenes from existing fanedits with consent, and avoid repeating work.
Let’s take the Dooku is a fallen Jedi example - some are unhappy with his red lightsaber, so want it rotoscoped. We’ll list that as an issue, then if a capable VFX editor can make that change we have the scene available for production.
Does this resonate? If we focus on individual scenes rather than high-level goals it allows for practicality to be chief while leaving room for personal preferences down the line.
Wow! This is all very exciting! And yet borderline terrifying. Let’s all try to remember that the colour of Mace Windu’s lightsaber, renaming Snoke “Plaguis”, and removing “Darth” from other Sith’s names aren’t continuity issues whatsoever. They are personal preferences, and the only way a group this size is going to come remotely close to a consensus will be if we stick to issues that specifically affect continuity. For example, the ST doesn’t really consist of any continuity issues at this point. Especially since 9 isn’t even out yet. While it sucks that the background of the Resistance and the First Order isn’t covered extensively in the films, their existence makes sense and doesn’t contradict anything other than people’s expectations.
I think this is a really good point - those things you list aren’t continuity issues. They may raise the odd question, but they are not ‘broken’. Let’s try to always keep that in mind, when judging changes.
Hal, if you’re able, do you mind highlighting the changes made between your 4.x and 5.1?
If you want to drop the list RogueLeader I’ll try to get it formatted into a spreadsheet where we can take them further.
Just a quick response to some of the more recent discussion, particularly Outbound Flight’s suggestions and RogueLeader’s responses:
You’re all right that this thread could quickly get out of hand. I think we should focus on top level goals before we get into minutiae or even specifics. (BTW, in real life I’m a ‘Solution Designer’, my job is to run projects from beginning to end for customers, where we always outline goals first, long before getting into requirements, then design the solution based on the limitations of the product. And prior to that I was a data analyst, so I have infinite tolerance for spreadsheets and reams of data.)
With that in mind, shall we try to put objectives in priority order? From my perspective only, and open to others’ opinions, I’d put:
Justification and expansion on the above:
INDIVIDUAL MOVIES SHOULD BE AS ENJOYABLE AS POSSIBLE
First in the list, because no other change should make a movie less fun. Individual movies are highlighted here rather than the full saga, because again, each individual should be decent. This item also leaves room for the removal of non-fun elements, like the Droid Factory, and the changes we’ve seen in traditional edits. This also naturally implies that we should use the best existing sources available.
INDIVIDUAL MOVIES SHOULD BE AS INTERNALLY CONSISTENT AND CLEARLY PLOTTED AS POSSIBLE
Because individual movies shouldn’t have to bend over backwards to adhere to the overall canon if it breaks that movie. Clear plotting is also highlighted, because of examples like mentioning Sifo Diyas, which doesn’t really add anything. Similarly, this leaves room for things like simplifying Palpatine’s plan with regard to the Trade Federation.
THE SAGA AS A WHOLE SHOULD BE AS INTERNALLY CONSISTENT AND CLEARLY PLOTTED AS POSSIBLE
This is the meat of the project, but it comes after the individual movies’ quality because we shouldn’t damage a movie to fix the whole - we should seek fixes which at worst are neutral to an individual movie. This item puts fixing contradictions first, and also encompasses clear plotting, which leaves room for (reasonable) streamlining throughout. What this item also suggests, which other edits have done little of, is ADDING extra connective tissue. I already love the idea of fleeing Star Destroyers after ROTJ. I also think, under this item, that we should also at least consider musical/SFX consistency throughout.
THE SAGA AS A WHOLE SHOULD RESPECT THE CANON OF THE TV SERIES AS FAR AS REASONABLE
This comes after the (movie) saga’s internal consistency. I use ‘reasonable’ rather than ‘possible’ because here the limitation isn’t what we can achieve, but what consensus we reach. We shouldn’t bend over backwards to adhere to any TV series, but should try to avoid explicitly introducing contradictions. Implied by this item is also that degree of futureproofing that being broadly aligned with the existing canon brings.
THE SAGA AS A WHOLE SHOULD BE AS ENJOYABLE AS POSSIBLE
Only last because it should come naturally as a direct result of the above. Plus, this is Star Wars, it’s already an enjoyable saga or we wouldn’t be here.
One thing I don’t think we need to overthink is whether or not to include anthology movies. Mainly because Rogue One really doesn’t break anything, nor is Solo likely to, now that the Story Group has a good handle on things. I doubt this project will make any demands of either. As I suggested earlier, once we have our goals we should be able to rank existing edits or original versions against them, and we may likely find that we’re closer than we think. In the ideal world we don’t create new edits from scratch, we just tweak our best existing sources to make them CONPoV compliant.
I’m glad my thoughts were coherent and seem to have resonated. Jarbear and Rogue Leader, I think I agree with both of you. It feels like we’re leaning towards:
I’ll put a base spreadsheet together (free time permitting) once we’ve locked in some of the main goals and initial items. An example row might look like:
And then, for each item, I’ll also compare them each with a grid of all movies and fanedits I can get my hands on, and see how the existing content lines up.